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Author Topic: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies  (Read 135684 times)

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Offline Garuss Vakarian

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #50 on: December 25, 2014, 10:00:52 PM »
Quote

An epic fail indeed! One which is having a remedy as we speak. Deadpool will have a standalone movie, faithfull to his character. Starring Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool, playing him the way he wanted to, the right way. The film is to be announced on release date, but it is suspected to have a summer 2016 release. ^^


Offline Deamonbane

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #51 on: December 26, 2014, 02:18:34 PM »
I can't be the only one that sees The Flash series as a childish attempt to cash more money in on their successful Arrow Series, right? The Flash is not good at all...

Also, Harley Quinn has already had a cameo in the Arrow... just saying.

Online Vorian

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #52 on: December 26, 2014, 03:32:21 PM »
I disagree. I think the Flash has had a much stronger start than Arrow did, personally.

Offline Garuss Vakarian

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #53 on: December 26, 2014, 07:45:54 PM »
I think the flash is great! Right down to whom plays Barry's dad. Did you know there was an older flash series? (Also pretty good. It even had Mark Hamil playing the Trickster!) Any way, why reference that? The guy playing his dad played Barry in the older Flash tv show! What an awesome nod. Any way, the current show is rather nice. And a welcomed change from Arrow's strict, Nolan esq "Keep things realistic. Even if we bring in super soldiers." The Flash series is using superpowers, and awesome scientific devices. It's not perfect, but it is a fun adaptation of the more whacky parts of comics. And stays decently faithful while doing it.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2014, 02:53:30 PM »
The Nolanverse was good...right up to the end credits of The Dark Knight. I like to pretend it never continued on from there...last Black Friday, I saw the third installment on DVD for $1.99 and said to myself, "Yeah...still not worth it."

Disney IS technically doing that with Spidey, only it's an animated adaptation of the Ultimate Spider-Man comics, though obviously going in a completely different direction. The only common concept is that he's still a super-young teen instead of a college student and he's been recruited by Nick Fury to become something other than an amateur embarrassment. Still, it's better than all five of the movies so far combined.

Unless Deadpool is rated R (and they can't seriously think they'll be losing money just for that, given how much more accessible Expendables 3 was and yet how it totally flopped) they needn't bother making it into a movie.

If they were smart they probably could have made Gotham into the Batman origin that would be part of the Batman Vs. Superman film universe since they're completely skipping over his reboot. But that's on Fox and the WB own the film rights. Hell, even Arrow might have been a more appropriate venue to springboard into Man of Steel and beyond. Honestly, I don't think with TWO different incarnations of Quicksilver in both the X-Men filmverse and the MCU, that a Flash standalone movie is going to be either A) good, or B) necessary. So having the Flash already established on TV would make his shorter, cameo-ish apperance in the Justice League movies would be a much better decision. Too bad WB didn't snag up both the TV AND film rights to all that DC crap. It's no fun sharing your toys and now they know why.

Offline Praetoria

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2014, 04:01:12 PM »
One of the things that a lot of people forget is that Disney has already put out violent, rated R films. They owned Miramax for years, including the early Tarrantino years. I think that they might have divested it around the time that 'Kill Bill' hit the theaters. So Marvel won't be shy about making an ultra-violent Deadpool film.

That being said, the onus is going to be on Fox, since they're the primary rights holders for Deadpool and all ancillary X-Men characters. Given their ownership, Fox is far more squeemish and feels the pressure of the 'family values' crowd more. It could go either way, really

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2014, 12:09:57 PM »
One of the things that a lot of people forget is that Disney has already put out violent, rated R films. They owned Miramax for years, including the early Tarrantino years. I think that they might have divested it around the time that 'Kill Bill' hit the theaters. So Marvel won't be shy about making an ultra-violent Deadpool film.

That being said, the onus is going to be on Fox, since they're the primary rights holders for Deadpool and all ancillary X-Men characters. Given their ownership, Fox is far more squeemish and feels the pressure of the 'family values' crowd more. It could go either way, really

Yeah, that first paragraph kind of threw me til you clarified that Fox has the Deadpool card in their pocket as far as the silver screen goes. I'm not the biggest Fox fan so I'm not overly brimming with knowledge of their film library but considering how much more adult and serious the last two REAL (not counting The Wolverine...ick...) X-men movies have been, it's fairly likely they'll continue this trend. I mean, the creative violence the sentinels inflicted on the hapless future people and the spiraling impalement Magneto gave Wolverine before tossing him away to drown was just...well, certainly good reason to think it's a prelude to some serious carnage on Deadpool's part when he's unencumbered by a PG-13 rating. They just need a good director and a producer with half a ball for it to be as good as it can be. Thankfully DOFP reset everything so the REAL Wade Wilson can be present and not just a blissfully forgotten memory from his earlier appearance.

Offline xerohour

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #57 on: December 31, 2014, 08:50:17 PM »
I don't have it myself, but from the AMC movie talk channel on youtube, they did say that the newest Wolverine movie did have an unrated version that was complete with unedited violence and all that. So, even if the theatrical version of Deadpool is rated down a little bit I imagine they would do the same thing and have an unrated version when it is released on dvd/blu-ray. Though in theaters would definitely be best *nod nod*

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2014, 10:34:29 PM »
I don't have it myself, but from the AMC movie talk channel on youtube, they did say that the newest Wolverine movie did have an unrated version that was complete with unedited violence and all that. So, even if the theatrical version of Deadpool is rated down a little bit I imagine they would do the same thing and have an unrated version when it is released on dvd/blu-ray. Though in theaters would definitely be best *nod nod*

It wasn't the G-rated violence of The Wolverine that bugged me but the craptastic story that literally went nowhere. My idea, to throw X-23 in there and have the REAL Silver Samurai, would have been a much better way to send off Logan before the time-shift changed things, perhaps even preventing him ever getting his adamantium infusion.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2015, 12:14:43 PM »
A lot of the characters in Wolverine were not really fleshed out. When ever that bald headed girl mutant showed up I kept asking myself how was she even relevant to the story. Then off course the Silver Samurai is just simply like. Hey even though you saved my life and all...I want to kill you and steal your immortality so I can keep living!

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #60 on: January 01, 2015, 01:11:25 PM »
A lot of the characters in Wolverine were not really fleshed out. When ever that bald headed girl mutant showed up I kept asking myself how was she even relevant to the story. Then off course the Silver Samurai is just simply like. Hey even though you saved my life and all...I want to kill you and steal your immortality so I can keep living!

Yeah, it's kind of like during development they were like, "Okay, so Wolverine goes to Japan...that's a wrap!" I mean, there are only two REAL mutants in it (Yukio wans't one in the comics, and her 'power' was kind of like...WTF?) which is exactly the opposite thing you want when you are making a movie set in the X-Men universe, and when your main character is as overused and pretty much uninteresting by now as Wolverine. Frankly if they'd blended both the Alpha Flight and Silver Samurai arcs into one movie, that could have been a kick-ass explosion of fun (they could have thrown in Deadpool too, if they had just left him out of Origins). Then any future Wolverine movies could have perhaps gone into territory like the Savage Land and other such X-Men mythos.

I know probably everybody's seen this test footage of Deadpool already but I'll link it anyway. What I was thinking was, since there's a host of interesting musical choices in it and other videos of him on youtube such as Electric Avenue, what other songs might you think would be cool to feature in the Deadpool film?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXGsv9nsNs
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 02:57:50 PM by Mathim »

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #61 on: January 01, 2015, 02:16:39 PM »
My biggest issue is a pattern the movies are beginning to follow just like the comics. Death is becoming irrelevant. Think about it every time an important character dies its a cop out.

SPOILERS GALORE AHEAD

When Phil Coulson died in the Avengers it motivated the team to work together. Then we learn he was only clinically dead for a few minutes and is now working with a team.

Bucky Barnes whom we thought died during the first Captain America film caused Cap to feel regret over it. Then he comes back as the Winter Solider.

When Groot sacrificed himself to save the others in Guardians of the Galaxy...I'm not gonna lie I had tears in my eyes a little bit as he went out with a smile on his face. Only we later learn he survived and was slowly growing back.

Loki we thought atoned himself somewhat over his crimes by sacrificing himself to save Thor, only to reveal it was a trick and is now sitting on the throne of Asgard impersonating Odin.

*SPOILERS GALORE OVER*


I have nothing wrong with either killing characters off or the occasional cop out. But its becoming a redundant pattern and is the reason why a lot of people don't care about people being killed off in the comics. Because sooner or later they are probably going to come back unless they are Gwen Stacey or Uncle Ben or any villain other than Loki.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #62 on: January 01, 2015, 03:02:59 PM »
My biggest issue is a pattern the movies are beginning to follow just like the comics. Death is becoming irrelevant. Think about it every time an important character dies its a cop out.

SPOILERS GALORE AHEAD

When Phil Coulson died in the Avengers it motivated the team to work together. Then we learn he was only clinically dead for a few minutes and is now working with a team.

Bucky Barnes whom we thought died during the first Captain America film caused Cap to feel regret over it. Then he comes back as the Winter Solider.

When Groot sacrificed himself to save the others in Guardians of the Galaxy...I'm not gonna lie I had tears in my eyes a little bit as he went out with a smile on his face. Only we later learn he survived and was slowly growing back.

Loki we thought atoned himself somewhat over his crimes by sacrificing himself to save Thor, only to reveal it was a trick and is now sitting on the throne of Asgard impersonating Odin.

*SPOILERS GALORE OVER*


I have nothing wrong with either killing characters off or the occasional cop out. But its becoming a redundant pattern and is the reason why a lot of people don't care about people being killed off in the comics. Because sooner or later they are probably going to come back unless they are Gwen Stacey or Uncle Ben or any villain other than Loki.

You forgot to mention Zola being an artificial consciousness instead of dying of old age. Now we'll just have to see if he survived being blown up too...

Frankly none of this surprises me and I don't fault them for doing it. Characters are popular and killing them off isn't always a good idea when they're the one attracting butts to theater seats. It's only in Phase 3 where we can actually expect to see some possible real, permanent deaths. My theory: Once the Infiniti War story is over, some amount of time-travel damage control/repairing is going to have to happen. Cue alternate timeline to continue the MCU and possibly have some more properties return home where they belong by then and, bada-bing-bada-boom, MCU Mark II with the COMPLETE set of heroes all together. Plus that then allows for recasting with an excuse for why everybody looks different.

By then we'll probably love the Hulk enough again to go for a Planet Hulk solo movie, among other things (F4 reboot, introducing the world to mutants and Spidey, etc.) I'm only bugged by their truly stupid decisions like giving Shane Black permission to rape Iron Man in the graphic style that South Park depicted George Lucas and Steven Spielberg raping Indiana Jones.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2015, 02:42:29 PM »
I disagree. I think the Flash has had a much stronger start than Arrow did, personally.
The Arrow had a slow start, but they took the time to build the foundations, not only for themselves, but for the Flash too, ironically. They build up the Character of Oliver Queen, his team, and that of his villains. Of course, there are the baddie-of-the-week guys, but they all build up to that major climax. And to be honest, I don't think I have ever been more exited for season finales than I was for the finales of the two Arrow seasons.

EDIT: Hell, did you see Arrow's midseason finale?

The Flash? Nah... BAM! I'm a fucking superhero. I have these three sidekicks that are here for no good reason, other than one being the ethnic diverse wise-cracker and the cute smart chick with a past, along with this old guy that obviously (Like, from the first fucking episode) is hiding something. Love interest. Father figure. Done! Let's go hit some baddies in the face!

Like... seriously, a child wrote that.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 02:50:32 PM by Deamonbane »

Online Vorian

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2015, 03:14:07 PM »
The Arrow had a slow start, but they took the time to build the foundations, not only for themselves, but for the Flash too, ironically. They build up the Character of Oliver Queen, his team, and that of his villains. Of course, there are the baddie-of-the-week guys, but they all build up to that major climax. And to be honest, I don't think I have ever been more exited for season finales than I was for the finales of the two Arrow seasons.

EDIT: Hell, did you see Arrow's midseason finale?

A season and a half buildup before showing any sign of remembering they're writing a superhero show is beyond slow. I've been keeping up with both, yes - Arrow's had some good episodes but the last two on Flash were better in my opinion.

Quote
The Flash? Nah... BAM! I'm a fucking superhero. I have these three sidekicks that are here for no good reason, other than one being the ethnic diverse wise-cracker and the cute smart chick with a past, along with this old guy that obviously (Like, from the first fucking episode) is hiding something. Love interest. Father figure. Done! Let's go hit some baddies in the face!

Like... seriously, a child wrote that.

Yeah, about that cast ...

Like you said, they took care of a lot of the set up last season in Arrow, and they have been building up the major characters and villains if you've been paying any attention. You seem to be confusing 'darker' with 'more mature'.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #65 on: January 02, 2015, 06:04:57 PM »
A season and a half buildup before showing any sign of remembering they're writing a superhero show is beyond slow. I've been keeping up with both, yes - Arrow's had some good episodes but the last two on Flash were better in my opinion.

Yeah, about that cast ...

Like you said, they took care of a lot of the set up last season in Arrow, and they have been building up the major characters and villains if you've been paying any attention. You seem to be confusing 'darker' with 'more mature'.
I can see that I may have presented my point insensitively, and I apologize for that. I happen to think that the Arrow's story was told better (especially with the half-episode flashbacks). I don't know what you mean what you said that about not knowing the difference between darker and more mature, but I am hardly an expert in TV or DC comics. I just thought that from a story-telling and acting point, they did a better job with the Arrow than they are doing with the Flash, which feels more like they are doing a live action cartoon.

I do like how they appear to be bringing in Wentworth Miller, Dominic Purcell and Robert Knepper, all actors from my all time favorite TV series, Prison Break...

Online Vorian

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2015, 06:39:14 PM »
I can see that I may have presented my point insensitively, and I apologize for that. I happen to think that the Arrow's story was told better (especially with the half-episode flashbacks). I don't know what you mean what you said that about not knowing the difference between darker and more mature, but I am hardly an expert in TV or DC comics. I just thought that from a story-telling and acting point, they did a better job with the Arrow than they are doing with the Flash, which feels more like they are doing a live action cartoon.

I do like how they appear to be bringing in Wentworth Miller, Dominic Purcell and Robert Knepper, all actors from my all time favorite TV series, Prison Break...

That's exactly what I mean. It has a lighter tone, so you write it off as childish and assume they aren't going anywhere with things instead of looking any deeper. If there's more to your argument than that I'm not seeing it.

The flashbacks work for Arrow because he had a long period of training and isolation that ties directly into the season plots. That's great there, on Flash the story is in the present and about the future, constant flashbacks would only distract from it. There's also just no way to do the Flash for a full season before really getting to the point of being a superhero. Different characters, different themes, different tone, both do what they do well. It's a good thing, for the most part.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2015, 06:43:32 PM »
The Arrow had a slow start, but they took the time to build the foundations, not only for themselves, but for the Flash too, ironically. They build up the Character of Oliver Queen, his team, and that of his villains. Of course, there are the baddie-of-the-week guys, but they all build up to that major climax. And to be honest, I don't think I have ever been more exited for season finales than I was for the finales of the two Arrow seasons.

EDIT: Hell, did you see Arrow's midseason finale?

The Flash? Nah... BAM! I'm a fucking superhero. I have these three sidekicks that are here for no good reason, other than one being the ethnic diverse wise-cracker and the cute smart chick with a past, along with this old guy that obviously (Like, from the first fucking episode) is hiding something. Love interest. Father figure. Done! Let's go hit some baddies in the face!

Like... seriously, a child wrote that.

Hence why I don't believe a Flash standalone movie (particularly if it goes the route of an origin story) is a good idea. While he's my favorite DC hero on the printed page, I still find him better as part of a team when he's in motion.

All this word of mouth about Arrow, though, I'm starting to want to see it now. Too bad I don't have Netflix and it's not available at my local library...
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 06:45:59 PM by Mathim »

Offline Thorne

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #68 on: January 02, 2015, 07:23:42 PM »
Try Amazon Prime. I'm having a love-hate relationship with the ease of access - and no commercials! - they offer.

I've enjoyed The Arrow, and the Flash. But you've got two very different people, and two very different situations. Seems natural to me that the tone of the shows would be very different. Just my two cents. I don't generally have much interest in DC, and don't read much into their offerings.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2015, 07:27:15 PM »
Yeah, after the ensemble assemblage on Smallville, it's hard to go up from there. Obviously the low-tech folks like Arrow, Bats, Canary, and a few others can be done a bit more cheaply but half the time, the way they do it, it's like they're a dime a dozen. If what I hear about a Teen Titans live-action thing is true, that'll give a much better opportunity to a live-action superheroes series without having to worry about pumping up big names and big powers. They can afford to pick one or the other for each character.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2015, 09:45:22 PM »
That's exactly what I mean. It has a lighter tone, so you write it off as childish and assume they aren't going anywhere with things instead of looking any deeper. If there's more to your argument than that I'm not seeing it.

The flashbacks work for Arrow because he had a long period of training and isolation that ties directly into the season plots. That's great there, on Flash the story is in the present and about the future, constant flashbacks would only distract from it. There's also just no way to do the Flash for a full season before really getting to the point of being a superhero. Different characters, different themes, different tone, both do what they do well. It's a good thing, for the most part.
You make a lucid point, I suppose. I guess I was expecting more of the same from the Flash, expecting it to be dark and brooding, and perhaps the lighter tone is a good thing (They even make the comparison when Oliver and Barry meet). The depth of the plot, however, isn't showing just yet except in small hints. I would have held off on the 'metahumans' for a little while, invested more time in building up Barry's character, as well as his love interest. I have to admit that that is the part that I detest the most. Introducing the metahumans a bit more gently, as well as the whole costume, the name and the 'team'. They crushed all that into the first episode, filling the rest of the episodes with angst, Barry crushing on his love interest and acting all weird that she is with someone else (One of my least favorite plot points ever, btw) and 'with great power comes great responsibility', slipping in hints here or there that there is something bigger on the horizon but not really building on that. Just hinting at it. They pushed the fact that Wells is something other than what he claims in the first episode, and resorted to just having him cackling at the end of every other episode just to remind us that, yeah, he's got a secret that he isn't telling us.

The whole revenge over dead mother thing feels rehashed from every other superhero movie, although I have to admit that him wanting to prove his father's innocence by catching the Yellow blur is a fresh and welcome aspect.

I don't dislike The Flash. I've been watching every episode, but for me it just lacks the storytelling that Arrow had, as well as a few other elements.

I've never watched Smallville, though. I am not Superman's biggest fan. And I like the higher tech but less super power guys, which is why one of the very high points in the Flash for me was Wentworth Miller's character.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2015, 10:35:03 PM »
You make a lucid point, I suppose. I guess I was expecting more of the same from the Flash, expecting it to be dark and brooding, and perhaps the lighter tone is a good thing (They even make the comparison when Oliver and Barry meet). The depth of the plot, however, isn't showing just yet except in small hints. I would have held off on the 'metahumans' for a little while, invested more time in building up Barry's character, as well as his love interest. I have to admit that that is the part that I detest the most. Introducing the metahumans a bit more gently, as well as the whole costume, the name and the 'team'. They crushed all that into the first episode, filling the rest of the episodes with angst, Barry crushing on his love interest and acting all weird that she is with someone else (One of my least favorite plot points ever, btw) and 'with great power comes great responsibility', slipping in hints here or there that there is something bigger on the horizon but not really building on that. Just hinting at it. They pushed the fact that Wells is something other than what he claims in the first episode, and resorted to just having him cackling at the end of every other episode just to remind us that, yeah, he's got a secret that he isn't telling us.

The whole revenge over dead mother thing feels rehashed from every other superhero movie, although I have to admit that him wanting to prove his father's innocence by catching the Yellow blur is a fresh and welcome aspect.

I don't dislike The Flash. I've been watching every episode, but for me it just lacks the storytelling that Arrow had, as well as a few other elements.

I've never watched Smallville, though. I am not Superman's biggest fan. And I like the higher tech but less super power guys, which is why one of the very high points in the Flash for me was Wentworth Miller's character.

Well Smallville held off on bringing in new heroes for quite a while, not until the 5th season, but once it did, it kept going with that forever, even having one of them hang on as a regular cast member (probably where they got the idea to do Arrow as opposed to something else). But from that point the writing really went downhill and they just kept on doing the super cameo stuff as much as possible. Each season felt like a self-contained arc, I wanted more long-term, in-depth stuff but alas. I hope these other series at least try a little harder in that respect.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2015, 03:06:57 AM »
All this word of mouth about Arrow, though, I'm starting to want to see it now. Too bad I don't have Netflix and it's not available at my local library...

A bit of a warning about Arrow if you do pick it up, the first few episodes aren't great because there is a fair amount of exposition done by voice over so if feels a bit clunky. Once they gave Oliver someone to talk to then the show picked up.

I think that's why Flash started with a ready made support team, they'd seen what hadn't worked on Arrow and didn't do it again.


As for the (Teen) Titans, they're a long way from hitting the small screen but fingers crossed for Supergirl starting later this year.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #73 on: January 03, 2015, 08:22:06 AM »
This is true... the best part of the first few episodes, aside from the fight scenes which... well, you gotta admit those are well choreographed... I think so, anyways, regardless of the action movie cliche where the evil minions can't seem to hit anything with an automatic....

But the best part of the first few episodes was Queen's interaction with Diggle. All the other interactions feel forced and clunky, and the narration is a little... very awkward.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #74 on: January 03, 2015, 10:33:56 AM »
It seems kinda like they aren't just pursuing the option to have one show with more grounded, down-to-earth heroes like Arrow and one show with all the over-the-top godly heroes like Flash and Supergirl. But then again, Marvel's approach, having several series coming out soon with their more street-level heroes who aren't quite (debatable, at least) in the league of, at minimum, Captain America and the others, ignores the whole idea of tremendous spectacle, but much praise is going to the writing and they do okay with their minimalist special effects and action. They're really saving the gusto for the big screen.