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Author Topic: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies  (Read 136518 times)

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Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #150 on: January 23, 2015, 08:49:41 AM »
Truth be told, all I remember of Namor is that he was always infatuated with Sue Storm and that way back in the older comics, he tried to flood New York a couple of times. That and reading that he was part of the Illuminati, the group of geniuses who decided to send the Hulk into space. Plus the wings on his ankles thing.

Personally I'd rather see an Aquaman movie but that's because I have optimism in spades and I would just really like it to work.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #151 on: January 23, 2015, 09:22:02 AM »
Sophie Turner announced to be Jean Grey in X-Men Apocalypse...*scowls*

Online CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #152 on: January 23, 2015, 04:11:38 PM »
A younger version of her. Judging by the cast call its going to deal with a crap ton more time travelling. I wouldn't be surprised if they figured out how to send more than one X-Man back this time.

Offline Wajin

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #153 on: January 23, 2015, 05:11:54 PM »
Maybe because Aquaman is usually portrayed as the Aryan ideal? I'm kinda meh on Aquaman to be honest, I'd rather see a Namor film from Marvel. If DC does stick to their guns and make the Aquaman movie, Marvel probably won't bother with their own underwater superstar. That's why they should have done him first, really beat DC to the punch and keep them from embarrassing themselves; in my ideal world, this would then force DC to be more strategic and thus work harder on their other projects. I just think they're going to be spreading their resources too thin. I mean, I know where Marvel got all their big financing from, but what about these 10 DC films that came up out of nowhere? Who the hell in their right mind has THAT kind of confidence in them, given the reaction to, say, Green Lantern?

And I'm not trying to pick on Aquaman, it's just that I've weighed the two and they both (Aquaman and Sub-Mariner) are underwater royalty, but Namor's people are typically blue and Namor himself is a half-human, so that makes him sort of an interesting child of both worlds, which I think it more interesting than Aquaman. On the other hand, Aquaman can control sea creatures which I'm not sure if Namor can also do, which would make Aquaman earn some extra points for that. What I've read also suggests that Namor's enemies are also more interesting than Aquaman's. But then again, much of Namor's origin and powers will have to shift around due to certain constraints in the MCU (no mentioning mutants, how does he measure up against Hulk, when was he actually born and how, etc.) Does anyone else want to weigh in on this? And yes, I'm aware that for some reason Universal (I think) owns the rights to Namor on the big screen and not Marvel Studios, but they're sitting on something they'll never really have the proper opportunity to use. They'd be better off selling it back to its natural parents and letting them do with it something we haven't yet gotten to see.

I may have mentioned this before but Disney is now starting to remake some of its animated classics and I thought since they already remade Sleeping Beauty into the Maleficent alternate history angle, and they're remaking Cinderella, they'll probably be making a real CGI-heavy Little Mermaid reboot so why not instead make a superhero movie that's sure to make bank for its originality with that same budget and technology?

Plus Marvel does not have the license to make a Namor, Universal does for some inexplicable reason.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #154 on: January 23, 2015, 07:21:27 PM »
Plus Marvel does not have the license to make a Namor, Universal does for some inexplicable reason.

I know, hence my saying they're just sitting on it doing nothing, meaning they'd be better off just cutting their losses and selling it back to Marvel Studios. Why they ever thought that would be a good idea to buy is beyond me.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #155 on: January 23, 2015, 07:39:14 PM »
I know, hence my saying they're just sitting on it doing nothing, meaning they'd be better off just cutting their losses and selling it back to Marvel Studios. Why they ever thought that would be a good idea to buy is beyond me.

Film executives don't run by normal people logic. The rights to Namor might be making Universal no money, but that also means the lack of rights to Namor doesn't make Marvel (aka Disney) any money either. If they sell Namor back to Marvel, and the resultant Namor movie earns Marvel more than they spent for the rights, it's a relative loss for Universal.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #156 on: January 23, 2015, 08:14:13 PM »
Film executives don't run by normal people logic. The rights to Namor might be making Universal no money, but that also means the lack of rights to Namor doesn't make Marvel (aka Disney) any money either. If they sell Namor back to Marvel, and the resultant Namor movie earns Marvel more than they spent for the rights, it's a relative loss for Universal.

Only if it competes with something of theirs, actually. Besides, how much could they get from selling the rights back? They could make a bit of what they spent back, and maybe throw in Marvel telling them their planned release date so any big pic Universal is coming out with will not coincide and have to compete on a serious level. That would be strategic since unlike Sony and Fox, Universal is kind of sitting there with their thumbs up their asses going, "Well, we should have bought a more popular, easier-to-make-a-movie-about character, shouldn't we?" For all the embarrassment of that kind of thing, you'd think they'd WANT to get rid of the rights to Namor and just cleanse themselves of that. It's like Universal is Raj from the Big Bang Theory dressed as Aquaman with his cartoon seahorse mount, constantly criticizing Aquaman for how much he sucks. Wouldn't anyone normal want to avoid being looked at like that at the soonest opportunity?


Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #157 on: January 23, 2015, 09:00:37 PM »
You're a normal person, and you're thinking like a normal person. It could, in film-executive-logic (contrasted against makes-any-damn-sense-logic), be worth it just to sit on the rights and deny Marvel the opportunity to claim that market share

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #158 on: January 23, 2015, 10:28:44 PM »
Still, I'd love to hear them explain that shit in their nonsense logic. Just like I'd love to hear about why they thought it would be a good idea to let Shane Black direct Iron Man 3 with the script they were planning to use.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #159 on: January 24, 2015, 06:42:05 AM »
When they decided to give him a series in the New 52?
Red Hood & The Outlaws was part of the first wave of New 52 releases and one only a 10 that don't feature the DC Trinity that haven't been cancelled.

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #160 on: January 24, 2015, 07:04:37 AM »
I thought something like that but wasn't sure. Didn't sound like my cup of tea anyway.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #161 on: January 24, 2015, 08:04:03 AM »
If at any point they do decide to include Robin in the DC cinematic universe, which version of him are the bulk of people on this board wanting? Dick Grayson or one of the ones to follow?

Online CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #162 on: January 24, 2015, 08:28:22 AM »
If at any point they do decide to include Robin in the DC cinematic universe, which version of him are the bulk of people on this board wanting? Dick Grayson or one of the ones to follow?

Well if they do Dick first they could really develop him into Nightwing and bam there is a potential spin off film. Then they could do Jason Todd whom was his successor. Have Jason killed at the end of the movie before revealing he is alive and that can set him up as the Anit Hero Red Hood and he could be an antagonist, his own spin off movie or have a show like Marvel (doubtful). Then they could do a major comic storyline between the two.

After Batman was killed (was actually sent back in time). Red Hood took up the mantle of Batman but was far more ruthless using guns and killing people. Forcing Nightwing to stop him and once he won Nightwing ended up becoming Batman.


Just imagine if they actually had the stones to kill  the original Bats off on a theater screen?

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #163 on: January 24, 2015, 10:23:34 AM »
Looks like we have a new Supergirl in Melissa Benoist, and already a full season order so come watch out for the Arrow\Flash\Supergirl crossover in November

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #164 on: January 24, 2015, 07:09:12 PM »
Looks like we have a new Supergirl in Melissa Benoist, and already a full season order so come watch out for the Arrow\Flash\Supergirl crossover in November

Yeah, how are they pulling this off? Are there no other major heroes already out there doing good in this shared TV universe? Seems bizarre otherwise to bring in Supergirl if the man o' steel ain't already large and in charge in Metropolis.

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #165 on: January 24, 2015, 09:20:54 PM »
It is probable that there are other superheroes active in the tv universe being created, but so far the writers/producers haven't mentioned it, yet. Supergirl is being produced by the same guy from the Arrow series. The tv shows are probably staying away from the big names since the movies are going to be coming out. Rumor has it batman will pop up in the Suicide Squad movie then be spun off into his own movie. The tv shows might reference what is occurring elsewhere while giving the spotlight to the secondary characters. The CW could try to resurrect Birds of Prey once more.


Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #166 on: January 24, 2015, 11:28:44 PM »
It is probable that there are other superheroes active in the tv universe being created, but so far the writers/producers haven't mentioned it, yet. Supergirl is being produced by the same guy from the Arrow series. The tv shows are probably staying away from the big names since the movies are going to be coming out. Rumor has it batman will pop up in the Suicide Squad movie then be spun off into his own movie. The tv shows might reference what is occurring elsewhere while giving the spotlight to the secondary characters. The CW could try to resurrect Birds of Prey once more.

Yeah, that never made sense to me, why are they just slapping Bats and Supes together without giving Bats his own reboot? We have no idea what to expect out of him now before his encounter with neck-snapper. It seems like if they're going to just skip over that in the crucial moment, when he's being re-introduced, then why even bother with a solo movie?

I never saw Birds of Prey but I heard good things. Could be interesting, they should make more shows with strong female protagonists. But I think I like the team aspect more, so I'd probably rather see less shows and just more heroes in the ones they do have. Like how I thought they should just forget the Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and Iron Fist shows and just do a Heroes for Hire show where most of them either headline it or at least cameo in it. Plus then there's room for more cameos like Punisher, Ghost Rider and Blade (before and IF they get their own MCU films).

Offline SapphireStar

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #167 on: January 24, 2015, 11:44:04 PM »
Blade did have a tv show. They could get the same actor to reprise the role for cameo appearances in the new Marvel shows and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. They could do Heroes for Hire as a tv movie event, or cross-over event with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. THey were going to have Katana (I think that is the character, played by the actress who played in the last Wolverine movie).

That was what had me puzzled. The individual movies should precede a group movie to spotlight their origins. THey are probably betting that the group movie is a hit, and figure it is safe to do the spinoff individual movies. At least with some of the marvel movies based within the Avengers universe there is some continuity between movies. Hugh Jackman has expressed interest in playing Wolverine in an Avengers movie.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #168 on: January 25, 2015, 04:27:43 AM »
The tv shows might reference what is occurring elsewhere while giving the spotlight to the secondary characters. The CW could try to resurrect Birds of Prey once more.
DC's Tv shows and movies are not connected in anyway, Arrow already has it's own Suicide Squad but the movie has a completely different cast same with the Flash Tv show and movie. And in the past the producers have hinted that there might be some sort of Birds of Prey team showing up in Arrow but that depends on what they do with the Huntress.

As for Katana, she been in a few episodes this season but without the heroic alter-ego.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #169 on: January 25, 2015, 04:40:20 AM »

That was what had me puzzled. The individual movies should precede a group movie to spotlight their origins. THey are probably betting that the group movie is a hit, and figure it is safe to do the spinoff individual movies. At least with some of the marvel movies based within the Avengers universe there is some continuity between movies. Hugh Jackman has expressed interest in playing Wolverine in an Avengers movie.

Pretty much, it's a kneejerk reaction to the success of Avengers. DC wants to cash in on what they think is a huge market for team-up movies, then get more money with solo films, completely missing the fact that part of Avenger's success was the preceding set of solo films that introduced the characters first.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #170 on: January 25, 2015, 05:16:19 AM »
Pretty much, it's a kneejerk reaction to the success of Avengers. DC wants to cash in on what they think is a huge market for team-up movies, then get more money with solo films, completely missing the fact that part of Avenger's success was the preceding set of solo films that introduced the characters first.
That's a ridiculous argument, firstly it assumes that there is only one way to build a movie franchise. Secondly you set up the movies as no win for DC, you criticize them for not doing the same as Marvel but if they had done you be criticizing for just copying Marvel

Just out of interest when did Marvel release the Star Lord, Rocket Raccoon, Groot, Drax & Gamora movies? I must have missed those.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #171 on: January 25, 2015, 09:52:56 AM »
That's a ridiculous argument, firstly it assumes that there is only one way to build a movie franchise. Secondly you set up the movies as no win for DC, you criticize them for not doing the same as Marvel but if they had done you be criticizing for just copying Marvel

Just out of interest when did Marvel release the Star Lord, Rocket Raccoon, Groot, Drax & Gamora movies? I must have missed those.

As of yet it's merely proven to be the most effective way to build a franchise. Until DC releases theirs we'll have to wait and see, although that also depends on how much faith the world has in their movies which is a really mixed bag. While they are essentially just following in Marvel's gilded footsteps, they are taking certain risks that differ but unlike the risk of releasing a relatively unknown property like GOTG, DC is doing more of a 'which piece do I move first' chessboard analogy, whereas Marvel's was more of a 'let's make up some new pieces altogether approach like the Big Bang Theory characters did' analogy.

And the reason they didn't do individual films for the GOTG roster is because they aren't individually interesting enough to be worth it, just like Black Widow and Hawkeye. The fact that they're set in space is already enticing enough on its own, so slapping them together (which required significant changes in their origins from the comics anyway) into one film gave us enough shorthand backstory and the perfect backdrop to where we were distracted enough not to care that much about it. Let's see DC figure out that winning formula for any of their movies.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #172 on: January 25, 2015, 11:45:51 AM »
That's a ridiculous argument, firstly it assumes that there is only one way to build a movie franchise. Secondly you set up the movies as no win for DC, you criticize them for not doing the same as Marvel but if they had done you be criticizing for just copying Marvel

Just out of interest when did Marvel release the Star Lord, Rocket Raccoon, Groot, Drax & Gamora movies? I must have missed those.

It has nothing to do with there only being one way to build a franchise. It has everything to do with DC trying to play catch-up and claim success that Marvel has trailblazed for. Getting the audience to care about individual characters is a powerful and intelligent marketing strategy that Marvel followed, building hype individually for Iron Man and Captain America and Thor and Hulk (sort of, poor guy's movies don't work out well) before dropping the big gun of Iron man AND Captain America AND Thor AND Hulk with guest stars Black Widow and Hawkeye. Plus, doing it that way allowed them to, if one of the team members turned out to be a flop, just cut them from the eventual lineup or reduce them to a cameo somehow.

There was no Star Lord movie because, until July 2014, there was no Star Lord comic - who knows, maybe he'll get one down the line now that he has proven his draw power. The individual Guardians aren't franchises with the weight to support a movie in the first place, but that shows you've missed the point. DC is trying to both play follow-the-leader and not play follow-the-leader at the same time, by releasing their team-up movie before their solo films. If they would pick one instead of trying to ride the fence, I wouldn't be criticizing them at all - doing what works is unfortunately one of the smarter things Hollywood tends to do, even when that creates nine million remakes and reboots of franchises. Instead of Marvel's strategy of making the audience care about their characters, they are relying purely on brand name recognition with Superman AND Batman AND Wonder Woman and expecting Dawn of Justice to be simultaneously
A) a sequel to Man of Steel,
B) an intro movie to yet another Batman, he of the infinite reboots
C) an intro to Wonder Woman before her own solo film
D) A good movie in its own right.

I don't think Snyder made all the right choices in MoS - Gritty Superman is not at all my flavor - but it's a competently made movie. I'm much less sanguine about his ability to make a good movie that balances screen time and writing for three big-name heavyweight heroes instead of one, and whose failure will send DC's plans toppling like a house of dominoes. If AffBats can't pull off the role, for instance, it hurts DoJ and also cripples the new Batman franchise before it even gets off the ground.

You are free to like DC, which you apparently do. But their whole DCCU strategy, as it has been revealed to the public, stinks all over of playing catch-up to the MCU. It's disorganized and seems to run entirely on 'it worked for Marvel, let's do it too' while also going 'let's do our own thing instead of just copying Marvel'. They need to pick one or else they're going to get neither.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 11:50:21 AM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #173 on: January 25, 2015, 02:01:31 PM »
First off Glyphstone, it's nice that you agree with me that your argument is completely ridiculous.

Mathim, I completely agree it is wait and see. But DC and Marvel had two completely different sets of circumstances\problems to deal with when building coherent movie franchises and have taken very different approaches in dealing with them.

MCU, didn't have access to the some major characters that had existing cut-through to main stream audiences. If they'd had access to Spiderman and the X-Men then those would have been the foundation of the MCU, but they didn't so they went with a set of characters that were less well known but not complete unknowns and built from there. They have also let different directors put their own spin on different parts of the MCU while keeping an overall coherence, which is why the Iron Man films feel different from the Captain America ones.

DC on the other hand have access to all of their comic book roster but there are maybe 2 or 3 character that have any kind of main stream cut-through outside of the big three. That is a problem entirely of DC's own making in that they haven't really pushed any other characters and if you look at what they print every month then maybe about half of their titles fall under the Bat-family\Super-family\Wonder Woman umbrella. But having said that Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman are probably the most recognizable superheroes in the world, so anything they do has to be based on those three. But that comes with it's own problems, with Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy just having wrapped up they can't reboot Batman in the way Fox did with Spiderman and Batman\Superman (which might be coming in 2 parts) is the way they've chosen to go. I don't think that's a bad idea, the question is about how well it's going to be executed and all anyone can do it wait and see. The other major difference is that they've pretty much handed over the reins of the entire movie franchise to one guy, which is a big risk but is a way of keeping things consistent.

Personally I wasn't a huge fan of Man of Steel, the McGuffin of Kal-El being some sort of Kryptonian genetic repository was frankly silly and the last act which included the fight with Zod was just an audio and visual overload which I found physically painful to watch. So while I know way more about DC trivia than Marvel trivia, just because it has a particular label on it doesn't mean I'm going to like it, if DC want to make a movie for me then it needs to be about Jack Knight or Courtney Whitmore or Kate Spencer or Jim Corrigan even Eric & Linda Strauss but I don't think any of those are ever going to make it onto either the big or small screens in there own right.

Online CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #174 on: January 25, 2015, 03:28:01 PM »
You know after thinking about it I kinda see why DC is choosing to keep their TV shows and movies separate. Marvel's Agents of Shield is in fact connected to the MCU and during Winter Soldier they revealed SHIELD was heavily compromised by Hydra agents. Which also had a major impact on the SHIELD show.

Now DC is probably avoiding this to not only cause spoilers or confusion among the TV audiences who have yet to see the movies but for numerous other reasons. If the Superman/Batman movie fails like a lot of people are expecting then that could also alienate s lot of people from Flash, Arrow and the other shows that are planned if they are connected to the same universe. Plus what if a director wanted to bring in characters from the show? A movie actor is paid a lot more than a TV one and if you start paying the TV actors for one movie apperance or two they may feel like they deserve more for the regular show and will feel more incline to threaten a departure over it. Then you are not only out of the actor but then you have to figure something out for the character.

With their movie universe not even off the ground yet this TV universe may be there back up plan. If the movies flop they can pull in plenty ofmoney from tthe shows and take their time and try again later  with movies when they are more prepared. They will know what people will like and hate with DC. Which characters, which stories, what elements. With all that collected data and improvements in CG to better accomadate their heroes and villains. Plus at this point people may want to watch something else besides Marvel. It would be a long term investment sure but it would certainly pay off if done right.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 03:29:21 PM by CaptainNexus616 »