You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 05, 2016, 06:56:30 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies  (Read 136056 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #100 on: January 16, 2015, 09:20:21 AM »
Oh God, please NO!!!! Don't contaminate Marvel Universe with these awful Image characters.

Spawn? Bad character. Bad comic book.

Also? Spawn wasn't even an original concept. In my opinion. Anyone remember the original Deathlock the Destroyer from Marvel comics? Former military guy who was a hardened killer, ended up getting killed when his boss betrayed him and then they brought him back as a cyborg. Replace cyborg with Hellspawn and it's pretty damn similar. Also, the main bad guy in Deathlock, the boss who betrayed him, looked very damn similar to Jason Wynn, the guy who betrayed Spawn before he became Spawn.

Granted Deathlock was white originally, but later they rebooted him in the main Marvel continuity as a black man who was a wimpy computer programmer, but still. Just pointing something out in case you guys didn't know.

And my two cents about the Flash series. The thing with his mom dying and wheel chair guy having a dark secret is pretty much taken right out of the comics. So if Barry's dead mom is cliche, it was cliche way back in like the sixties or whatever when they first gave the Flash his own comic.

Offline Deamonbane

  • A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: The world would be a sadder place without stories.
  • Gender: Male
  • Make me smile...
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #101 on: January 16, 2015, 10:52:14 AM »
Dead parents has been a superhero/heroine cliche since... Superheroes existing...

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #102 on: January 16, 2015, 12:00:43 PM »
I know, but I was saying that in response to your earlier post. My interpretation was that you had a problem with them doing the dead parent thing in the TV show. My point was it's an intrinsic part of the character, so your problem should lie with the entire Flash history and not with the show.

There's even an Elseworlds graphic novel about what happens when his mother DOESN'T die.

Offline Deamonbane

  • A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: The world would be a sadder place without stories.
  • Gender: Male
  • Make me smile...
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #103 on: January 16, 2015, 01:19:31 PM »
You make a solid point *nods*.

An interesting tidbit, there's a scene in the Watchmen movie as well as the comics of the an earlier time in that universe, the Minutemen, where one of the superheroes saves a man and his wife from a mugging. They have a small boy with them, and it is inferred that the small boy is Bruce Wayne, and the man and wife are Thomas and Martha Wayne, his parents, saved from being killed.

Just an interesting thingie...

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #104 on: January 16, 2015, 05:07:24 PM »
Well we're in 2015 now so an Ant-Man trailer should be happening sometime soon, hopefully. Its July release date is still a little over six months away but I'm thinking we'll see it before too long; the Avengers Age of Ultron just got a new trailer as well and frankly I'm starting to wonder if it's a good idea for them to show so much ass-kicking footage, even if it gets more butts in seats. It may hurt the reaction to it by giving us less to surprise and wow us during the actual feature.

Offline Wajin

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #105 on: January 16, 2015, 06:07:37 PM »
Well we're in 2015 now so an Ant-Man trailer should be happening sometime soon, hopefully. Its July release date is still a little over six months away but I'm thinking we'll see it before too long; the Avengers Age of Ultron just got a new trailer as well and frankly I'm starting to wonder if it's a good idea for them to show so much ass-kicking footage, even if it gets more butts in seats. It may hurt the reaction to it by giving us less to surprise and wow us during the actual feature.



You mean this?

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #106 on: January 16, 2015, 09:52:18 PM »
Oh man, I thought my friend was just fucking with me when he told me there was one! I didn't think it would be out just yet...and I'm sick to death of all those fake ones on youtube.

But wow...so underwhelming. I'm really disappointed with that trailer. I really don't know what to think about this movie. I was really conflicted this whole time and now I'm unable to change my tune at all. Hopefully the next one they release will have more Evangeline Lilly as Hope Van Dyne/(Wasp II?) Would be nice to know if the ability also increase in size to his Goliath/Giant Man proportions will be utilized. Otherwise I'm not holding out for the movie being very good. I went into it the entire time thinking he'd be doing both because otherwise, seriously, why would anyone think that was a good idea to only have him shrink?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 09:56:44 PM by Mathim »

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #107 on: January 17, 2015, 09:55:03 AM »
But wow...so underwhelming. I'm really disappointed with that trailer.

I'm not disappointed with the trailer... because I think that any trailer for a movie about Ant-Man would suck  ;D He's just a character that doesn't work at all. I really can't get why Marvel keeps insisting on having him around. For me, this character is the one total misfire among Marvel's Silver Age characters.

Quote
I really don't know what to think about this movie. I was really conflicted this whole time and now I'm unable to change my tune at all.

I really fear that this movie will bomb... On the other hand, I expected Guardians of the Galaxy to bomb, too.

Quote
Hopefully the next one they release will have more Evangeline Lilly as Hope Van Dyne/(Wasp II?)

Wait, Evangeline Lilly is in this movie?

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #108 on: January 17, 2015, 10:02:20 AM »
I'm not disappointed with the trailer... because I think that any trailer for a movie about Ant-Man would suck  ;D He's just a character that doesn't work at all. I really can't get why Marvel keeps insisting on having him around. For me, this character is the one total misfire among Marvel's Silver Age characters.

I really fear that this movie will bomb... On the other hand, I expected Guardians of the Galaxy to bomb, too.

Wait, Evangeline Lilly is in this movie?

Hence why I was expecting them to do a little more to showcase the non-sucky aspects of the character. Yes, shrinking is, on its own, a pretty lame power but he is supposed to be able to grow to great sizes as well, and his partner, Wasp, is sort of like the Angel Salvatore character from X-Men First Class. That combination would have, at minimum, be needed for me to believe wholeheartedly have good feelings about the movie. Neither the writer (the new one after Edgar Wright left) nor the director can inspire that confidence in me.

On the other hand, I never did believe it was a great idea to have Hank Pym be the behind-the-scenes mentor and the Scott Lang version of Ant-Man being the active hero. A little behavioral controversy would have made it more interesting, plus...I kinda don't like Paul Rudd. It just embarrasses me to watch any movie with him in it. Plus he's like in his 40's and it seems like someone younger and more spry would be better as a hero who's very physical on his own (unlike Iron Man, where the suit does all the work). And no offense to any fans of her, but I just don't find Evangeline Lilly attractive, like, at all. It feels like all the parts were there on the table and they picked almost all the wrong ones and left out many of the right ones in constructing the movie.

I take that back, actually. Let it never be said that I disagree with the idea of it being a heist movie; I mean, honestly, can you really think of any Marvel hero better suited for this kind of stealthy stuff than Ant-Man/Wasp? I know they always say, "Oh, it's not a superhero movie, it's (fill in the blank with random movie genre) with superheroes", so if they're trying to follow that formula, yes, Ant-Man is the MCU's 'heist' movie (not my favorite, by far) with the perfect person to be the one leading the heist. If they just said one of their upcoming movies was going to be a heist pic but didn't tell me which hero was going to head the feature, I might have been pretty bummed, but this just fits perfectly.

That being said, they're going to have to work hard to make the stakes seem high enough for this to really fit with the MCU if they even think they might have him be a recurring character. If the best thing he can do is shrink and ride around on a flying ant, we might not want him hanging around during the Infiniti War, y'know? But having him going back and forth between Giant Man and Ant-Man sizes and teaming up with his second-generation Wasp, that I'd happily follow into Phase 3. As it is, we're kind of at the point where we'd be paying for our tickets on a gamble about whether or not those key things are going to be in it. I'm still going to see it, regardless (but the next trailer is going to have to knock my socks off to convince me to see it in 3D), but I really wouldn't mind giving them a few more months to work on it and get it just right (or as good as it can be) considering the changes and the rushed production...but more than anything, I would much rather this have been the one that came right after Avengers 1. I mean, after riding the high of 1.5 billion in box office amazingness, they could have shown anything they wanted and still made at least a billion. Instead that all went to Iron Man 3 which pissed off everyone so much, nothing they've released since has made any more than about half of IM3's gross. Plus then that would have given time for IM3 to maybe be a little better if it had come out after. Oh, a comic book fan can dream...
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 03:45:29 PM by Mathim »

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #109 on: January 17, 2015, 05:25:17 PM »
I am really holding my breath for Ant-Man. To be honest what is Ant-Man really well known for? Creating Ultron and being a wife beater. I am not familiar with the comic book versions of him but if you ask a noob fan of Marvel like me, one of those will probably be the answer. That said it may actually be a good thing they had Stark create Ultron instead in the Cinematic universe. A lot of people who go see these movies are really new to Marvel, and some may look up the lead role before or after the film. So having this version of Ant-Man not create Ultron will take some of the heat off hopefully.

Ant-Man is basically going to be the Black Sheep of the movies unless they pull of a tremendous story.

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #110 on: January 17, 2015, 05:32:32 PM »
A correction, if you don't mind: that Ant-Man in the movie is Scott Lang, the second Ant-Man. The Ant-Man that created Ultron and had the incident with hitting his wife was Hank Pym, the original Ant-Man.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #111 on: January 17, 2015, 05:42:05 PM »
Oh its that version? Ok then could be worse. Could be Eric O'Grady version and that really is MUCH worse.


http://www.comicvine.com/articles/off-my-mind-the-redemption-of-ant-man/1100-144339/

Granted this version does attempt to redeem himself.

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #112 on: January 17, 2015, 05:56:03 PM »
I'm not familiar with the O'Grady Ant-Man. He does sound a lot less likeable than Scott Lang, who really is a decent person who has made some mistakes in the past.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #113 on: January 17, 2015, 05:59:43 PM »
Yeah like I said I will hold my breath for Ant-Man though. At this point in my life I have seen many movies from various decades stretching back to the John Wayne era of westerns to what we have today. I have learnt one important lesson.

It's not about the actual story, its about how you tell it.

You can use all the explosions and CG you want to put butts in chairs, but at the end of the day the ones that know how to tell the story are the ones remembered.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #114 on: January 17, 2015, 06:55:16 PM »
Personally I would have preferred it just be the Hank Pym version all the way, even if it was as bad as the Ultimates version where he not only hit her, but she shrank to hide from him and he sicced a bunch of ants on her which in her bug-sized state, was brutal. I want some damn controversy where the hero is seriously flawed and makes grandiose things that make them look more like a villain, or an antihero at best (look how popular Deadpool is despite this, and he's getting his own movie; hell, look at the Punisher, and he's got 3 movies!) They tried to do that with the Demon in a Bottle thing they adapted into Iron Man 2 but we already saw a different side of him in the first film so, not to mention thanks also in part to RDJ's popular performance, Tony being an alcoholic wreck was, predictably, forgivable despite being a mirror to the drunk driving epidemic in the U.S.

I want to see Ant-Man surprise the shit out of people not familiar with the backstory and see if they can forgive him for it. Maybe if they do both the Pym and Lang versions it would make sense, show the reason Hank is estranged from his daughter is because of his regrettable past actions and he finds a kindred spirit in redeemable fuck-up Scott Lang, hence passing on the helmet and suit to someone who isn't as squeaky clean as Steve Rogers. I'd like to see any DC hero try to come back from something vulgar.

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #115 on: January 17, 2015, 07:47:19 PM »
You know, if the movie went with Hank Pym as Ant-Man, I really wouldn't like them to focus on the incident when he hit Janet.

The thing is... yes, Hank Pym is a messed up hero. He had nervous breakdowns, he had self-worth issues... and he is responsible for Ultron existing. But it'd be a mistake to focus on this situation when he hit the Wasp and make the movie version in a wife-beater. Because Hank is not a wife-beater... not a classic case, at least.

A typical wife-beater is someone who has trouble with keeping their emotions in check and who regularly lashes out at his spouse. Meanwhile, Hank has never had these kind of problems. Hank hit Janet just once... when he was already in the throes of a nasty mental breakdown. Yes, it was a vile thing... but it happened in a particular moment, at which Hank was literally building a robot to attack the whole Avengers team. It was a moment when Hank was lashing against everyone on the team... a moment of really diminished judgement on his part. Later on, Hank got better and has never tried hitting Janet again.

Overall, while not defending Hank's actions (he did give the Wasp a black eye on this day, after all...), I'd like to point out that this was a peculiar situation that has happened only once in the course of their relationship. So, saying that Hank is a wife-beater, is not really accurate. And it really would do a disservice to the character, if the whole portrayal of a movie version of Hank was built around the "wife-beater" label. He's not really a wife-beater... he's a man struggling with mental illness who once went off the rails so heavily that he started attacking his friends and loved ones, including his wife. Again, it was an awful thing that he did, but it needs to be seen in the context of the whole situation.

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #116 on: January 18, 2015, 07:12:56 AM »
I'm not disappointed with the trailer... because I think that any trailer for a movie about Ant-Man would suck  ;D He's just a character that doesn't work at all. I really can't get why Marvel keeps insisting on having him around. For me, this character is the one total misfire among Marvel's Silver Age characters.

I really fear that this movie will bomb... On the other hand, I expected Guardians of the Galaxy to bomb, too.

Wait, Evangeline Lilly is in this movie?

For me, I always saw the reason for them having Ant-Man around was because of the kind of scientist he is. What I always gathered (and what they're doing with the movies) is that Tony Stark is a great scientist and as we see he picks up new things very quickly, but for him the science is sort of a fun puzzle solving thing for him in some ways. I always saw Hank Pym as more of a humanitarian scientist, one trying to use science for the greater good. Which for me, when I learned all the stuff about Ultron turning out horribly for him, made me especially sympathetic to him. To me it just seemed like Tony and Hank sort of complemented aspects of each other by the way they differed in the comics.

Offline Deamonbane

  • A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: The world would be a sadder place without stories.
  • Gender: Male
  • Make me smile...
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #117 on: January 18, 2015, 12:30:54 PM »
I think that they proved with Guardians of the Galaxy that we will watch anything, anything at all, if they slap Marvel on the cover nowadays...

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #118 on: January 18, 2015, 01:53:08 PM »
Well, I'd really like them to try making a NFL Superpro movie, then  ;D

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #119 on: January 18, 2015, 06:01:31 PM »
I think that they proved with Guardians of the Galaxy that we will watch anything, anything at all, if they slap Marvel on the cover nowadays...

That's a very pessimistic view of things. Certainly an idea that off-the-wall wouldn't have come about outside of a comic book context, so obviously they would never have gone for something like that had it not been an adaptation. The stellar reviews speak for themselves, whether or not it's a Marvel product. Otherwise you'd have to explain how Iron Man 3 got middling reviews while alienating core fans and yet still raking in over a billion. You can't just make a generalization about Marvel like that. They have to put in the effort to get butts in seats, it's not enough for them to be name-dropped by a movie.

As for the Hank-hitting-Janet incident, I'm just saying that would set him apart from the other heroes as being particularly flawed. I'm not saying I don't understand why they're probably going to tiptoe around that if not omit it entirely (though it would certainly explain Janet's absence and Hope's estrangement from him) but we saw the equivalent of Tony Stark committing a DUI offense and nobody seems to give a shit. It's this ass-backwards cultural phenomenon where one type of fuck-up is less acceptable than another for an arbitrary reason. I want them to be daring, though, and put it out there, see if people will give him a chance, look at his flaws, his vulnerability, and understand rather than write him off completely. As was said, it's a one-time incident and he felt horrible about it. If this is supposed to be a story about redemption, let it be one about Hank Pym, and do Scott Lang's later. That's what I would have said to the screenwriter if I'd been the producer.

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #120 on: January 18, 2015, 08:17:46 PM »
I think that they proved with Guardians of the Galaxy that we will watch anything, anything at all, if they slap Marvel on the cover nowadays...

Personally, I went to see it because I'm a huge Chris Pratt fan. Also, because I wanted to see something with a little space involved. The whole tying into Marvel stuff and being really funny to me was just a bonus.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #121 on: January 19, 2015, 01:23:10 AM »
I am not gonna lie when I first saw the trailers for the Guardians, I was less than impressed. It really didn't click for me at first and I was really just going to wait till DVD to watch it but a family member of mine wanted to see it so I went. It is rare when a movie proves me wrong these days but boy was I so glad GotG did prove me wrong I loved it.

Offline Deamonbane

  • A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: The world would be a sadder place without stories.
  • Gender: Male
  • Make me smile...
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #122 on: January 19, 2015, 01:01:56 PM »
What I said was... a joke, really, since I believe that the Spider Man 3 movie didn't do so spectacularly, as I recall. But still, honestly, I had never heard of the Guardians of the Galaxy before the movie was announced, and neither Chris 'Not Hemsworth' Pratt.

But... yeah, Iron Man 3 should have flunked but it didn't because it was riding the wave that the Avengers started. Hell, Iron Man 2 wasn't really that great either.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #123 on: January 19, 2015, 02:36:57 PM »
What I said was... a joke, really, since I believe that the Spider Man 3 movie didn't do so spectacularly, as I recall. But still, honestly, I had never heard of the Guardians of the Galaxy before the movie was announced, and neither Chris 'Not Hemsworth' Pratt.

But... yeah, Iron Man 3 should have flunked but it didn't because it was riding the wave that the Avengers started. Hell, Iron Man 2 wasn't really that great either.

Actually as I recall Spidey 3 was the highest-grossing of the five currently released ones even though it sucked more than any of them.

Iron Man 2 I could forgive, but not part 3. I hadn't heard of Guardians either but the trailer did intrigue me, so I don't know what to say to anyone else but, maybe the standards I hold aren't the same?

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #124 on: January 19, 2015, 10:31:00 PM »
Spidey 3 was just coming off of the success of the first two films so I can understand why it did so well. Heck I remember going to see it in theatres for my 13th birthday and I was somewhat disappointed. I had heard about the black suit before hand and how awesome it was....then evil disco dancing Peter arrived. The only movie that has ever pulled off more than one villain successfully with equal screen time would be Tim Burton's Batman Returns.

Now I am not going to lie. After watching Dredd the other day, I want the guy who played Judge Dredd to be Batman more than Ben Affleck.