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Author Topic: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies  (Read 137037 times)

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Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #125 on: January 20, 2015, 01:15:44 AM »
Am I the only one who liked Iron Man 3 better than 2? Sure, they butchered the Mandarin, but at least the whole movie was memorable, and it was a good bookend to the 'who is Tony Stark' theme the trilogy ran with. Out of Iron Man 2, I remember the second bad guy had a pet bird, the first bad guy was lame as hell, and Tony was drinking spinach juice to stop the arc reactor from poisoning him. Or something.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #126 on: January 20, 2015, 08:25:40 AM »
Am I the only one who liked Iron Man 3 better than 2? Sure, they butchered the Mandarin, but at least the whole movie was memorable, and it was a good bookend to the 'who is Tony Stark' theme the trilogy ran with. Out of Iron Man 2, I remember the second bad guy had a pet bird, the first bad guy was lame as hell, and Tony was drinking spinach juice to stop the arc reactor from poisoning him. Or something.

Not the only one, but let me break down some of the real reasons why 3 sucked more than 2.

The villain's motivations were pure crap. At least in 2, the villain's reasons for wanting to destroy the Stark legacy were legit; Vanko blamed the Starks for his family's disgrace and squalid life. Whereas Aldrich Killian (totally wacked out adaptation of the character from the comics, should've been someone else entirely) was just a self-centered prick like Justin Hammer who, once again, steals the talents of someone else to suit himself. His use of Extremis was a potentially good idea but then they decided to let each and every one of his flunkies have the SAME GODDAMN POWERS as him making the entire thing a joke since nothing set him apart as special from his bottom-level nobodies. It was harder to kill him than most of the others, but that's never explained. Not to mention the exploding, that was never part of the Extremis story in the comics, and a lot of the rest of their powers were a total ass-pull. Following the Extremis storyline more closely would have improved things vastly. I know they want to avoid doing that to such a great degree but if it helps improve the quality of the film, I say do it.

Here's another thing many people will overlook: Misuse of other named characters from the Marvel universe. That one female Extremis user played by Stefanie Szo...something, was called Brandt. Now, from what I read on Wiki she's supposed to have been something of a good guy and connected to some other major characters owned by Marvel. So instead of being a bridge into the ever-expanding Marvel Cinematic Universe to some other potential movie characters, she's a bitchy throw-away character. The other was Chen Lu, or simply Dr. Lu in the movie was he was referred to once, but in the comics he's the Radioactive Man, another supervillain who could have proved a valuable underling/bodyguard for the Mandarin. Instead he's just another Extremis dork who didn't even get to have his own fight or even a memorable defeat/death. His taking on Tony before confronting the Mandarin (the REAL Mandarin, had they not gone with their ridiculous farce) could have been a great reason for letting the Mandarin get away to fight another day, something they haven't (intentionally) done in any of the other movies which nearly always end in the bad guy being killed or imprisoned or giving the impression that that's what happened. Once again, a total failure of the story to flow well because of this feeble attempt to cram in more Easter Eggs but with no substance.

The ending (I should save this for last, but fuck it, I'll probably need several posts for this) was appalling. The Iron Legion was the most orgasm-inducing feature of the trailer and what did it amount to? The Hulkbuster Mark I (leading up, thankfully, to the real one in A2AoU) just held up a falling crane which doesn't seem possibly anyway if you think about it, it would have just gotten crushed itself if we care about physics at all enough to ignore the Arc Reactors but not ignore everything else. The rest were not inventive nor imaginative and got no time to show anything really impressive. This would have shown how kick-ass Jarvis was at controlling all of them and made us more excited for the Vision. Instead we are left wondering just how effective he will be controlling an actual drone body of his own, as is my understanding. Then there's the whole "Pepper has to completely emasculate Tony yet again by killing the bad guy for him because he's too pathetic to do this on his own AGAIN just like in the first movie because for some reason, they couldn't just hook him up to something inside the Arc Reactor facility and recharge his chest reactor so he can actually pummel Iron Monger on his own." This should have been called "Tony Stark's mid-life crisis adventure where his friends save his butt over and over again." Did I mention yet the fact that he blew up all his suits? Why the FUCK would you do that when they've proven to be the most effective thing at combating large groups of superpowered bad guys (we just weren't lucky enough to witness it, apparently) that you probably wish you had during the Avengers? If Pepper really loved you she'd support your habit and put the good of the world first, just like Tony was trying to. How selfish of BOTH of them, losing major respect points. And then at the very end, Tony getting rid of his Arc Reactor, completely negating there ever having been a problem in Iron Man 2 if it was that easy, and giving up his whole Iron Man schtick, only to appear again in the Avengers sequel. Make up your fucking mind, Tony! Shane Black should never be allowed to touch another film again, ever.

The Mandarin is supposed to be Iron Man's greatest nemesis. He's supposed to have 10 rings fueled by alien technology that give him incredible powers. Can you imagine a better way to, if they insisted on keeping this, have all of the Iron Legion devastated for a good cause? How about having the Mandarin cut them all down with his various ring powers while Tony tries to figure out a way to attack without falling prey to one of them. Then, if overwhelmed or depowered somehow (I thought it would be fun to see one of his hands cut off by a blade/sword-themed Iron Legion suit, thus halving his rings and power) he could escape and live to fight another day instead of just dying or being imprisoned like both Killian and that appalling travesty Ben Kingsley shamed himself into playing were, respectively. Now they are trying to play it off like, "Oh, there's a real Mandarin" in that one-shot, but it's too fucking little, too fucking late. The substitute(s) for the real one were horrendously inadequate and that's not okay. Their powers weren't even a good match-up for Iron Man, and Tony didn't even undergo an Extremis treatment like he did in the comics to integrate with his armor. Which leads me to what for today will be my final point.

That trailer wrote a check its butt couldn't cash. Instead of seeing Tony mastering control over his machines with just his mind, he's controlling things with remote devices, and the actual time he does summon the pieces onto himself, he is basically made into a clown, so we're laughing AT him instead of with him. The only other time we ought to have been able to do that was when he first tried to use his rocket boots without the rest of the suit in the first movie. The Mandarin was so ever-present in the trailer, most of his dialogue seemed absent from the actual film. I actually got chills from some of it, and to not see him as the real deal was unforgivable. Plus if they did ever bring the "real" Mandarin on later, who's going to play him? They've officially fucked themselves because Ben Kingsley can't play the real deal now. It's too late. Who better than him, honestly? Wasted opportunity. Also it made his Iron Legion suits look totally effective and we barely got to see any of them in action, and the ones he himself used were pitifully ineffective.

Oh, almost forgot. Little kid sidekick, a true sign of authorial desperation. I think Avengers proved that you don't need to coddle children to get big numbers, so why with the tweenage dingus who added nothing to the story? They did that crap in Ghost Rider 2 and, while that wasn't the overall reason it sucked, it didn't make things any better. Same thing with Punisher War Zone. When are these Hollywood people going to learn? Let's hope we never see that brat again even though he signed a multi-picture contract.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #127 on: January 20, 2015, 10:20:18 AM »
Now I am not going to lie. After watching Dredd the other day, I want the guy who played Judge Dredd to be Batman more than Ben Affleck.
SO MUCH YES!!!!

That would be Karl Urban, AKA Eomer from Lord of the Rings, Grimm from Doom and Bones from the Star Trek reboot...

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #128 on: January 20, 2015, 11:11:40 AM »
Mathim: you forgot to mention how they pretty much made AIM, Advanced Idea Mechanics, into a joke by changing everything about it but the name and having the leader be some asshat that stole someone else's science not to simply cure his condition, but like some horrible cliche, turn the nerdy, ugly, coke bottle glasses wearing scientist into a cheesy over-the-top playboy.

The leader of AIM in the comics is MODOK. If anyone doesn't know what that is, look it up. As crazy as that may seem to be to people that aren't familiar with it, to me MODOK would have been better than Aldritch Killian.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #129 on: January 20, 2015, 08:12:49 PM »
Mathim: you forgot to mention how they pretty much made AIM, Advanced Idea Mechanics, into a joke by changing everything about it but the name and having the leader be some asshat that stole someone else's science not to simply cure his condition, but like some horrible cliche, turn the nerdy, ugly, coke bottle glasses wearing scientist into a cheesy over-the-top playboy.

The leader of AIM in the comics is MODOK. If anyone doesn't know what that is, look it up. As crazy as that may seem to be to people that aren't familiar with it, to me MODOK would have been better than Aldritch Killian.

Oh, I was by no means finished, that was all I could think of at the time. I had just woken up. Or was about to fall asleep. One or the other. But you're right, they made two sinister threats to the Marvel universe into a joke, both the Mandarin and AIM and everything to come out of there. Also Coldblood and Firepower, both could have been made into awesome cyborg guys using Extremis to help them, not unlike Tony himself, bond with technology in a deeper way than a mere prosthesis. I wrote this alternate script for the whole movie where those guys weren't just carbon copies of each other and Killian, and Extremis was much more reasonable than this lava-skin version.

MODOK would have kicked ass as a behind-the-scenes villain for Civil War. They could still have him, just maybe not anything to do with AIM. They are changing Ultron's origin from Hank Pym's creation, apparently, so why not this other villain too? They also never did anything with the Leader, after that stuff fell into his head in The Incredible Hulk. I want to see him in some capacity, 'cause he's out there somewhere just doing nothing and...it's time to do some shit, bighead boy.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 08:15:52 PM by Mathim »

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #130 on: January 20, 2015, 08:14:17 PM »
SO MUCH YES!!!!

That would be Karl Urban, AKA Eomer from Lord of the Rings, Grimm from Doom and Bones from the Star Trek reboot...

Holy crap I thought I recognized him from somewhere I didn't realize that was Eomer lol. I knew he was from the first Red movie.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #131 on: January 20, 2015, 08:26:11 PM »
Holy crap I thought I recognized him from somewhere I didn't realize that was Eomer lol. I knew he was from the first Red movie.

I was going to express my surprise too, I had no idea he was in LOTR. I didn't care for them much, but he's pretty good. Not so much in Chronicles of Riddick, but that's more due to the writing. Would be awesome to see him somewhere in the MCU. How old is he? He might have been a better choice for Scott Lang or maybe Hank Pym, even. He certainly does look like he's stressed out most of the time.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #132 on: January 20, 2015, 08:33:33 PM »
I was going to express my surprise too, I had no idea he was in LOTR. I didn't care for them much, but he's pretty good. Not so much in Chronicles of Riddick, but that's more due to the writing. Would be awesome to see him somewhere in the MCU. How old is he? He might have been a better choice for Scott Lang or maybe Hank Pym, even. He certainly does look like he's stressed out most of the time.

I honestly think he would be a fantastic Batman if you seen him Dredd you will know what I mean. Marvel already has Samuel L. Jackson, Anthony Hopkins, and RDJ

I think DC should have Karl just to play Batman instead of Affleck, here check out this video of him in Dredd. I knew right there he deserves to be Batman.


Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #133 on: January 20, 2015, 08:46:35 PM »
I honestly think he would be a fantastic Batman if you seen him Dredd you will know what I mean. Marvel already has Samuel L. Jackson, Anthony Hopkins, and RDJ

I think DC should have Karl just to play Batman instead of Affleck, here check out this video of him in Dredd. I knew right there he deserves to be Batman.


Batman? You lost me there. I mean, that was by no means as irritating as Bale's oft-mocked attempt but that speech sounded hack-written. He needs some quality material to convince me of what you feel from that example. He's only 42, not terribly out of the range of many superheroes written for characters within ten years or so of that age. Apart from Batman, though, what else could he play that people would be like, "Man, that part was meant to be played by him from day 1"?

For that matter, who would be able to take up Hugh Jackman's mantle as Wolverine after he calls it quits?

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #134 on: January 20, 2015, 09:03:31 PM »
Simple no one. Not because no actor could bring the same level of potential as Jackman but because a majority of the fans will reject the new actor. Hugh Jackman has been playing Wolverine for 15 years straight with a new film coming out every couple of years. Now normally when a new actor comes it is after the franchise has sat dormant for years and times have changed. That sadly will not be the case here, unless the announce Wolverine will be absent from the main roster following Apocalypse then the fans will hate the new Wolverine actor because its not Hugh Jackman.

Fox will more than likely try to compensate by shoving down people's throats how great this new Wolverine is compared to the old and it will push people further away. Its something I like to call the Carlie Cooper Syndrome.

During the infamous One More Day storyline, Peter Parker and Mary Jane made a deal with Mesphito (aka the closest thing to the devil of Marvel) to give up their marriage in return he would save a dying Aunt May. Thus their marriage was erased from history and many fans raged over this Out of Character decision. Next we are introduced to a character named Carlie Cooper (Whom was named after the mastermind behind OMD's daughter) to be his new love interest. The funny part was this girl was introduced literally just a few pages right after that erase was made!

Ever since then it was clear they were going to make Carlie the new girlfriend and the writers tried shoving it down many angry readers throats. She was a cop I think and they tried to make her this big great thing and even had many characters comment how awesome she was to help push her.

Sadly it just didn't work, it was coming fresh off the devil divorce and right after Mary Jane whom had already been a well established character and wife to Spidey for years. No one could get behind her for arriving after the favorite or her being pushed as the best thing ever since she was a new character compared to the dozens of other established characters like MJ or Black Cat.

I am not saying it will happen for the next Wolverine actor but I can see some fans hating him for not being Hugh Jackman.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 09:05:25 PM by CaptainNexus616 »

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #135 on: January 20, 2015, 11:32:33 PM »
Well, can you say 'reboot'? I mean, they've already epic-failed to completely hold together the continuity in the X-Men movies' timeline, but obviously DOFP kind of magic-wanded everything back into 'fresh start' mode. But really, there's no way they can just keep pushing forward like this. They're going to need to do a big finish (if Apocalypse bombs, that might be it) before they get to the point of just restarting it, but that would give them the excuse they need to replace everyone. Not that I know of many who could fill in the more prominent roles but that's probably just going to need a decade or so down the line to happen. If the brand-new series that seems sort of inevitable were to simply not have any ties to the previous series, it wouldn't be quite the slap in the face that you described.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #136 on: January 21, 2015, 03:57:06 AM »
Forget the Carlie Cooper Syndrome, what about the Robin Syndrome?
Everyone hated Jason Todd because he was't Dick Grayson but
Everyone loved Tim Drake because he wasn't Jason Todd.

But then leave it 25 years and Jason is forgiven for not being Grayson

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #137 on: January 21, 2015, 08:00:42 AM »
Never really knew about Jason Todd since he wasn't in the Animated Series...

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #138 on: January 21, 2015, 01:04:50 PM »
I'm not too current on Spider-Man comics these days, but didn't Marvel give up on Carlie Cooper finally? As far as I know, she was put on the bus (metaphorically and literally) following the events of Superior Spider-Man...

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #139 on: January 21, 2015, 03:16:15 PM »
Gah, too many incarnations to keep track of. That's why I primarily stick to the TV shows and movies, and only read wikipedia entries when it sounds interesting.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #140 on: January 21, 2015, 03:24:50 PM »
Wasnt Jason Todd the one that went evil?

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #141 on: January 21, 2015, 03:35:49 PM »
He got better, I guess...

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #142 on: January 21, 2015, 03:42:12 PM »
Gah, too many incarnations to keep track of. That's why I primarily stick to the TV shows and movies, and only read wikipedia entries when it sounds interesting.

Likewise that's how I found out about this stuff

I'm not too current on Spider-Man comics these days, but didn't Marvel give up on Carlie Cooper finally? As far as I know, she was put on the bus (metaphorically and literally) following the events of Superior Spider-Man...

Yep

Wasnt Jason Todd the one that went evil?

Yep a result of the Joker torturing and murdering him before he was dunked in a Pit tank by Raz Al Ghul.

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #143 on: January 21, 2015, 04:12:57 PM »
Yep a result of the Joker torturing and murdering him before he was dunked in a Pit tank by Raz Al Ghul.

Before the New 52, it was actually something...a lot dummer...

And now he's just like an angsty anti-hero I believe.

Offline Beorning

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #144 on: January 21, 2015, 04:43:48 PM »
Before the New 52, it was actually something...a lot dummer...

Let's say it outloud: it was Superboy Prime punching at the walls of reality and causing continuity distortions! *facepalms*

You know, with explanations like that, DC really should just introduce an in-universe device called "Cosmic Reset Button" that some character would press every time a continuity change or retcon was needed...

Quote
And now he's just like an angsty anti-hero I believe.

Yeah, although I'm not sure at which moment exactly he started being that?

Offline Zekromnomnom

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #145 on: January 21, 2015, 04:55:04 PM »
When they decided to give him a series in the New 52?

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #146 on: January 22, 2015, 08:32:36 PM »
Since we seem more fixated on DC in the last half dozen posts or so, here's some updated news:

Apparently Tom Hardy, aka speech-impediment Bane, dropped out of Suicide Squad due to 'scheduling conflicts', though according to rumors, it was because he thought the movie would be, quote, 'a disaster'. Jake Gyllenhal is in talks to replace him as Rick Flagg. Like anyone really gives a shit, right? Still, that rumor is the juiciest tidbit. That lack of faith in DC is really ubiquitous, even among the people in Hollywood, apparently.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #147 on: January 22, 2015, 09:26:19 PM »
Can't blame Hardy for dropping if he didn't think it would work. Heck Michael Keaton dropped out of Batman despite showing up at first and being sized for the new suit. All because Warner Bros. replaced Tim Burton, it was a definitely wise career choice on Keaton's part since the 90's Batman movies went under from there.

Though I am curious about something. Ever since Affleck was announced as Batman it really hasn't been the best response. It was one of those rare moments when I saw many on the Internet agree on one thing. They didn't want Ben as Bats period. Now a lesser known fact is Jeremy Irons (One of his more popular roles was Scar in Lion King and the Pope in the Borgias) has been casted as Alfred. I am honestly curious as to see how their on screen chemistry would play out.

Though I am really scratching my head at are some of these casting choices DC is making. Jason Momoa as Aquaman for starters, he is commonly known for playing Ronon Dex on Stargate Atlantis, Drogo in Game of Thrones, and Conan the Barbarian in the reboot film. I just can't see him being Aquaman for some reason.


Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #148 on: January 22, 2015, 09:32:54 PM »
I've got faint but tentative hopes for Momoa. He's got the body and the acting skills to pull off the badass warrior-king of Atlantis that Aquaman is in his own comics. The trick will be if his script is good enough that he can overcome the inertia of the Superfriends (and to a lesser extent Brave And The Bold Aquaman). That I am much less sanguine about.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #149 on: January 22, 2015, 11:14:52 PM »
Can't blame Hardy for dropping if he didn't think it would work. Heck Michael Keaton dropped out of Batman despite showing up at first and being sized for the new suit. All because Warner Bros. replaced Tim Burton, it was a definitely wise career choice on Keaton's part since the 90's Batman movies went under from there.

Though I am curious about something. Ever since Affleck was announced as Batman it really hasn't been the best response. It was one of those rare moments when I saw many on the Internet agree on one thing. They didn't want Ben as Bats period. Now a lesser known fact is Jeremy Irons (One of his more popular roles was Scar in Lion King and the Pope in the Borgias) has been casted as Alfred. I am honestly curious as to see how their on screen chemistry would play out.

Though I am really scratching my head at are some of these casting choices DC is making. Jason Momoa as Aquaman for starters, he is commonly known for playing Ronon Dex on Stargate Atlantis, Drogo in Game of Thrones, and Conan the Barbarian in the reboot film. I just can't see him being Aquaman for some reason.

Maybe because Aquaman is usually portrayed as the Aryan ideal? I'm kinda meh on Aquaman to be honest, I'd rather see a Namor film from Marvel. If DC does stick to their guns and make the Aquaman movie, Marvel probably won't bother with their own underwater superstar. That's why they should have done him first, really beat DC to the punch and keep them from embarrassing themselves; in my ideal world, this would then force DC to be more strategic and thus work harder on their other projects. I just think they're going to be spreading their resources too thin. I mean, I know where Marvel got all their big financing from, but what about these 10 DC films that came up out of nowhere? Who the hell in their right mind has THAT kind of confidence in them, given the reaction to, say, Green Lantern?

And I'm not trying to pick on Aquaman, it's just that I've weighed the two and they both (Aquaman and Sub-Mariner) are underwater royalty, but Namor's people are typically blue and Namor himself is a half-human, so that makes him sort of an interesting child of both worlds, which I think it more interesting than Aquaman. On the other hand, Aquaman can control sea creatures which I'm not sure if Namor can also do, which would make Aquaman earn some extra points for that. What I've read also suggests that Namor's enemies are also more interesting than Aquaman's. But then again, much of Namor's origin and powers will have to shift around due to certain constraints in the MCU (no mentioning mutants, how does he measure up against Hulk, when was he actually born and how, etc.) Does anyone else want to weigh in on this? And yes, I'm aware that for some reason Universal (I think) owns the rights to Namor on the big screen and not Marvel Studios, but they're sitting on something they'll never really have the proper opportunity to use. They'd be better off selling it back to its natural parents and letting them do with it something we haven't yet gotten to see.

I may have mentioned this before but Disney is now starting to remake some of its animated classics and I thought since they already remade Sleeping Beauty into the Maleficent alternate history angle, and they're remaking Cinderella, they'll probably be making a real CGI-heavy Little Mermaid reboot so why not instead make a superhero movie that's sure to make bank for its originality with that same budget and technology?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 11:17:36 PM by Mathim »