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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 53209 times)

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Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #200 on: August 28, 2014, 03:44:05 PM »

I saw a girl at Games Workshop. Once.

Are you sure? An extremely overweight, long-haired guy might be hard to distinguish from a distance... ;D

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #201 on: August 28, 2014, 03:48:30 PM »
Are you sure? An extremely overweight, long-haired guy might be hard to distinguish from a distance... ;D

Absolutely! An awkward hush went over the entire store.

Online Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #202 on: August 28, 2014, 04:04:57 PM »
I don't know from WH, honest. But I /do/ know a little about painting minis. Scrub the little buggers first. Take an old tooth brush to 'em, with a little soap and water, to take the mold release residue off 'em.

They're right about Citadel being over-priced. It's not crap? But you can buy the same brushes, blades (Yes, blades. X-acto blades and riffler files are necessary for taking the mold lines off your minis) at a craft store (Jo-Ann's, Micheal's), for way cheaper (Check the paper-crafting section). And AS&S (Mail/web order. American Science and Surplus. They're /dangerous/) often has good deals on brushes and files too.
0s, 1s and 2s are good brush sizes, wherever you get them.

Paints.. I've found that you can use any damn acrylic paint you want - including Liquitex. The colours might not be exactly right, but you know what, at that distance, probably, no one's going to care. Keep a paint diary, for formulas for mixes, blends, washes. P3 is good paint. Citadel's paints aren't bad, I have a few of their greys and metallic. I've worked with worse. Reaper's paints aren't terrible, and like P3, they put them in squeeze bottles. I've also used Secret Weapon washes, but I don't really have an opinion about them.

(My FLGS has a number of ladies floating around in it - and I think a couple of them even play WH. I know at least one of them paints, I'm always seeing her at the painting table).

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #203 on: August 28, 2014, 04:28:55 PM »
There's excellent advice! You should listen to all of it - even though I admit I don't. I'm too lazy to carefully file down all the mold lines.

If I did mix my own paints - which I'm basically also too lazy to do - I'd also invest in some empty jars. That way you can mix more than you need right away.

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #204 on: August 28, 2014, 04:36:30 PM »
Any names for the alternatives? I wouldn't even know where to look for them.....

Craft stores.  Look in with the model cars and airplanes for decent quality acrylic paints.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #205 on: August 28, 2014, 05:12:07 PM »
I don't know, but that'd be my guess.

"That" being...? ;)

Everyone, thanks for the advice about paints. I'll consider this, if I ever get into this hobby.

Online HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #206 on: August 29, 2014, 06:51:09 AM »
For selling miniatures, on the sprue is fine. Assembled probably lowers your resale value a bit, as the buyer now can't put them together they want. Painted takes that a step further, unless the buyer wants to paint them the same colour you have, its more work for them. Pro painted models can sell well, but that's not likely something you need to worry about for a while :)

Don't bother buying GWs brushes and modeling tools. They're overpriced, from all accounts. I haven't needed to buy anything in years, so not sure exactly what they're selling for. I just bought my tools from a hardware store .. a pair of snips, some small files, a small hacksaw and craft knife. Brushes you can get from any art / craft store.

Paints .. there are a variety of different model paints available. Have a look at this for a few different ones.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart

In terms of essentials to play ...

Basic box set - it's pretty good value for money, and will give you the starter of an army, plus the core rules
Codex - needed for the army you want to play
Tape measure and a handfull of dice - Not too hard to get hold of.
Pair of snips and/or craft knife for removing models from sprues / chopping models up for conversions, small file
Paintbrush and maybe half a dozen paints. Undercoat (I normally use black), base colour(s) of model, weapons, base model stands on

For example, I'm currently starting a Night Lords force. What I'll need for that would be black for the undercoat, blue for the armour, red for helmet eye pieces and wings, bone for skulls and terror markings, silver for weapons, probably green for the base the model will stand on. That'd be about normal for a single model.

If you do decide to pick it up and want to trade off any of the Chaos stuff, let me know :)

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #207 on: August 29, 2014, 09:37:49 AM »
Thank you! Very informative.

Small question 1: Is there a paint for skin colour?

Small question 2: All those tiny markings, symbols etc. on miniatures. You paint them, or is it some stick-on element?

Small question 3: What is a "wash"?

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #208 on: August 29, 2014, 11:49:06 AM »
Thank you! Very informative.

Small question 1: Is there a paint for skin colour?

Small question 3: What is a "wash"?

1. Most lines have a pre-mixed flesh color.

3. A 'wash' is done by making a very thin mixture of paint and water, and then brushing that over the whole figure, then wiping off the excess.  The paint gets into the tiny crevices more easily, and it brings out a lot of detail.  Typically, this is done with black paint, but nice effects can be had with other colors.  There's also a technique called 'dry brushing', where you load your brush and then wipe most of the paint off the brush.  Going over an area with this will highlight the more raised portions.

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #209 on: August 29, 2014, 12:13:29 PM »
Thank you! Very informative.

Small question 1: Is there a paint for skin colour?

Yes.

Quote
Small question 2: All those tiny markings, symbols etc. on miniatures. You paint them, or is it some stick-on element?

Most models have a lot of tiny details on them right from the start. Imperial models, for instance, typically have a lot of scrollwork, skulls, that sort of thing. Usually you'll also have the option of adding other details. And  a lot of models will also come with transfer sheets for adding in chapter markings for shoulder pads and such.

Quote
Small question 3: What is a "wash"?

Washes are basically thinner paint, which means they settle into grooves and folds to create a shaded look. They're really, really handy when painting something that needs a shaded look, like cloth - and skin. Just give whatever you're painting the base color you want it to be, wash, and highlight.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #210 on: August 29, 2014, 12:15:24 PM »
About the washes: is it something you create by watering down ordinary paint? Or is it some special paint?

At the shop I visited, they were selling a black wash as a separate item...

Online Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #211 on: August 29, 2014, 01:15:06 PM »
You can definitely make your own washes. As said, they're essentially watered down paint.
Take notes, if you do, especially if you want to reproduce the effect or colour.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #212 on: August 29, 2014, 01:19:19 PM »
Both. You can create them by watering down ordinary paint, GW seem to have been increasing the number and types of paints they do, to make it easier for someone to just walk into a shop and come out with everything they need.

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #213 on: August 29, 2014, 02:02:13 PM »
About the washes: is it something you create by watering down ordinary paint? Or is it some special paint?

At the shop I visited, they were selling a black wash as a separate item...

Watering down your own paint is really all it is.  Silly thing, but I was able to learn all of these techniques at one of those 'paint your own ceramics' stores. 

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #214 on: August 29, 2014, 02:04:17 PM »
I see.

I saw the undercoat paint being mentioned. If I understand correctly, you paint a model with the undercoat paint first,(at the GW shop, they offered two sorts of these paints: black and white), then you add the real intended colours. Question: is the undercoat paint something special, or can an ordinary paint be used?

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #215 on: August 29, 2014, 02:16:29 PM »
It's pretty much ordinary paint.  I know some people who go without it, but it has the advantage of covering up the color of the metal and giving you an even-colored painting surface.  White can really make your actual colors 'pop', since you don't have the dull gray of the model diluting them, and black can be good if you're using a predominately dark color-scheme to begin with, to sort of 'fill in' where you might miss a brush-stroke.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #216 on: August 29, 2014, 02:26:06 PM »
So... colours look different depending on what kind of undercoat colour they have? I'm sorry if that's a basic question, I've never really painted that much, models or even pictures...

BTW. I know I ask a lot of question, but all this WH40K talk is serving one important function: it gives me additional motivation to find a job. Ever since we started talking, I'm sending 50+ job applications a week  ;D

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #217 on: August 29, 2014, 03:01:57 PM »
It's a subtle thing, but it does make a difference.  Think about a crayon line on white paper, and then that same crayon line on black construction paper, or even a brown paper bag.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #218 on: August 29, 2014, 03:14:16 PM »
Yep. Most of the colour schemes I do are dark, so I normally go with a black undercoat for my models.

Spray undercoat, let it dry
Do base colour scheme of model
Add secondary colours .. helmet eye pieces, exposed skin, weapons, secondary armour colours etc
Paint the base (normally green)
Add flock to base to look like grass

Thats more or less me done with painting.

I'm not a great painter, so all the shading and washing I tend to avoid. If the model looks okay from a couple of feet away, I'm happy :)

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #219 on: August 29, 2014, 03:23:11 PM »
So, you use undercoat in a spray? Is that necessary? Can't you paint it on with a brush?

BTW. What about the glue? GW sells its own glue. But couldn't I use some ordinary glue with a dropper?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 03:25:03 PM by Beorning »

Online HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #220 on: August 29, 2014, 03:28:41 PM »
Sure you can, but the spray can is quicker. I set a dozen models in a sheet of cardboard, take them outside and 30 seconds later they're all basecoated :)

I just use superglue for mine. GWs glue I wouldn't bother with.

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #221 on: August 29, 2014, 03:31:20 PM »
Well, I just tried washing one of my Space Wolves models with thinned paint. It was a little tricky getting the water to paint ratio just right, but the end result was acceptable. I would've preferred a neater result ( and possibly a dark blue wash instead of a black one ), but if I had the right shade of blue to mix, and a jar to mix a larger amount in, this would've been just fine.

So, you use undercoat in a spray? Is that necessary? Can't you paint it on with a brush?

You absolutely can. It's just quicker with a spray, and neater. At the risk of heresy, I'm not sure the black primer is necessary at all. It's nice, because it means any areas left untouched will be black, which looks decent enough on its own ( unlike, say, plain, unshaded blue ). I could be wrong, but I think spray primer was more important when they actually made tin models. Paint was liable to peel off very quickly without it. I've never had that problem with plastic minis.

... everyone keeps beating me to the answers!

Online Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #222 on: August 29, 2014, 04:22:57 PM »
If you prime in black, it has the advantage of making your metallic areas look all kinds of better.

And you don't /have/ to prime, but if you're painting metal minis, it actually does help a lot. Adhesion, seeing stuff you missed cleaning the thing up... all kinds of stuff comes up when you put that coat of primer on.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #223 on: August 29, 2014, 04:24:44 PM »
Okay, so: looks like there's no need to buy GW's paints (aside from that one for skin colour). There's no need to use GW's glue... What about brushes? These miniatures are really tiny and detailed. So, a really small brush would be needed...

BTW. The GW shop includes pincers in their starter kit. What are they for, actually?

And what about the mold residue that's been mentioned?

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #224 on: August 29, 2014, 04:53:54 PM »
Pincers can be used for a bunch of things, but I suspect it's to give you a better grip when you paint a tiny piece of a miniature.  Again, a craft store is going to have a wide assortment of brushes - you can go all in and buy 'artist brushes', but I like having at least a few cheap brushes like they give school-kids.  Advantage is that you can take a pair of sharp scissors and trim away bristles on the cheap brushes without worrying about replacing the brush later.  I'll us a brush that's been trimmed down to just a few bristles for things like eye-dots, fine lines, and the like.  You'll also want a couple larger brushes (again, they don't have to be pricey, just wider) for covering large areas quickly (like if you use brush-on primer)

Clean your brushes before putting them away, and let them dry bristles-up, and they'll stay in good condition longer.

And you don't need GW's skin color.  Any line of paints should have something skin-like.  (Even if you're painting Nurgles.)