You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 06, 2016, 02:02:30 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 53210 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« on: August 09, 2014, 03:58:53 PM »
I was wondering: what's your opinion on the WH40000 setting? Interesting? Not interesting? Does it lend itself to serious stories, or is it too silly for that?

Also, have you played any of the related roleplaying games? What are they like? Are they very combat oriented, or can you investigative and social stories with them?

Offline Inkidu

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2014, 04:11:35 PM »
I am personally ga-ga for the setting, but the table-top game is just really expensive so I stick to the other forms of media (video games, stories).

I think it's pretty serious in-universe, but as the audience you can't help but laugh at some of it.

Online HairyHeretic

  • Lei varai barbu - The true bearded one
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Location: Ireland
  • Gender: Male
  • And the Scorpion said "Little frog .. I can swim."
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2014, 04:41:00 PM »
Given the setting has been around for the best part of 30 years, has spawned wargames, RPGs, novels, computer games, movie, and more besides, a lot of people must be rather taken with it.

For myself, I've been playing in it literally since the game was released. The background has kept me in even when the rules have driven me away. I pretty much sat out most of 5th edition due to the travesty that was published as the Chaos Codex.

The setting can do serious and less than serious both.

You want serious, try Dan Abnett's Inquisition trilogies, Eisenhorn and Ravenor. You want less serious, Commissar Blackadder Cain and Deff Skwadron.

The RPGs are going to vary. Dark Heresy gives a good scope for investigative stories. Rogue Trader is probably the best bet for social. Deathwatch and Only War will lend themselves to combat. Black Crusade, you're looking to undermine the Imperium, whether it's by intrigue and seduction, or fire and blood.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 04:55:48 PM »
Could you tell me more about Black Crusade? It's the game where you play followers of Chaos Gods. Does it mean you need to do evil things?

I'm not sure I'd want to play in a game where I need to, say, kill babies or something...

Offline Inkidu

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2014, 05:06:00 PM »
Could you tell me more about Black Crusade? It's the game where you play followers of Chaos Gods. Does it mean you need to do evil things?

I'm not sure I'd want to play in a game where I need to, say, kill babies or something...
The "good" guys probably kill babies. :P

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2014, 05:52:35 PM »
Yeah, I gathered as much from reading some of the fluff  ;D

Still, I don't think that, say, Dark Heresy is literally about killing babies. Meanwhile, in Black Crusade, you play a follower of Khorne (who seems to be some sort of mass-murder god) or Nurgle (who is all about diseases). So, I guess you need to kill a lot of people in this game..?

Offline Inkidu

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2014, 06:06:23 PM »
Yes, if you're following Chaos you're either going to be killing a lot of people, killing a lot of people with disease, sadomasochistically killing people, or killing people through elaborate plans.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2014, 06:16:16 PM »
Niiiiice.  :o And this is fun and playable?

Offline Inkidu

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2014, 06:22:13 PM »
Fun is subjective, but what do you mean by playable? In the roleplaying and tabletop material? Yes, playable in the video games? Somewhat playable.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2014, 06:27:59 PM »
I meant, do people really play this? A game about killing innocents in various scary ways?

Personally, I have trouble playing White Wolf's Vampire games - and they are much more... humanitarian than what Black Crusade seems to be ;)

Offline Inkidu

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2014, 06:37:00 PM »
I meant, do people really play this? A game about killing innocents in various scary ways?

Personally, I have trouble playing White Wolf's Vampire games - and they are much more... humanitarian than what Black Crusade seems to be ;)
Well, yeah, some.

However, Chaos are the only evil, evil faction. Well the orks are kind of a chaotic evil... orks are... different...

Remember that the Imperium of Man's go-to reaction in many cases is just to scorch a planet from orbit. Tau probably use brainwashing, eugenics, and concentration camps, Eldar would kill one billion souls to save 1000 of their own. The imperial guard's main job is to really enforce order on human worlds (at which they're unbeatable, it's only when they fight anything else that they die in the millions).

So you know... really the only thing you decide is how evil you want the game to be.

Chaos even fight chaos. That's the big thing about the Black Crusades (of which there have been 13). It's a rare time when the four gods of chaos put aside their interpersonal fights to go kill large swaths of the Milky Way Galaxy.


Online HairyHeretic

  • Lei varai barbu - The true bearded one
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Location: Ireland
  • Gender: Male
  • And the Scorpion said "Little frog .. I can swim."
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2014, 06:53:25 PM »
Could you tell me more about Black Crusade? It's the game where you play followers of Chaos Gods. Does it mean you need to do evil things?

Evil, in the 40k universe, is hardly limited to Chaos :)

I don't think any race could really be described as good.

I'm not sure I'd want to play in a game where I need to, say, kill babies or something...

That's unlikely to be part of a Black Crusade game.

In Black Crusade you play someone opposed to the Imperium. Most, but not all, follow one of the major powers of Chaos.

Khorne is all about violence.
Slaanesh is excess, pushing everything to it's limits and beyond..
Tzeentch is intrigue and change.
Nurgle is decay and stagnation.

The Powers of Chaos oppose each other, a metaphysical Great Game than spans centuries and dimensions. They'll unite in opposing to the Imperium (or Eldar, or Orks or whoever), but those are alliances of convenience.

The characters in Black Crusade want to see the Imperium torn down, each for their own reasons. The Imperium names them evil, but you can run the gamut from anti Imperial rebel to fallen Marine, corrupt noble to insane psychopath. You can play the Saturday morning cartoon villain if you want to, but a villain with a reason for being the way they are is more fun :)

One of the best examples of the corruption of Chaos is Dan Abnett's Eisenhorn trilogy. You see the Inquisitor start to make .. questionable .. choices, for the best of reasons. Step by step, each act for the good of the Imperium, choosing the lesser evil to combat the greater, and that's how Chaos can corrupt.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2014, 07:09:20 PM »
Hm. Okay. This might be interesting. Might be not, though. Hard to say beforehand...

Allrightie. Would any of you be interested in running a solo game for me? Dark Heresy or Black Crusade, specifically?

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2014, 08:44:24 AM »
I did some more digging and I think I'm falling in love with Adepta Sororitas. Urge to RP rising!!!

I also found some WH40K (strategy game) videos, like this:



Hmmm. This looks complicated! And it probably requires tons of money, too. All these miniatures and scenery...

Offline Inkidu

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2014, 11:06:28 AM »
They're basically the Imperium's Battle Nuns. Gothic pipe organ artillery, hardcore repentance, and going into battle either in powered armor or with barely anything at all.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2014, 11:13:26 AM »
I know who AS are and they sound awesome! I want to play one :)

BTW. Have you played the strategy game? I wonder how that works - I've never played any game of this kind before. For once, do you need these miniatures to play? Maybe you could use coins and paper boxes instead? It would be cheaper... ;)

Offline Inkidu

  • E's Resident Girlomancer, Dedicated Philogynist, The Compartive of a Superlative, SLG's Sammich Life-Giver
  • Lord
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Location: In a staring contest with the Void.
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2014, 11:28:13 AM »
Nope never played the tabletop games.

Online HairyHeretic

  • Lei varai barbu - The true bearded one
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Location: Ireland
  • Gender: Male
  • And the Scorpion said "Little frog .. I can swim."
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2014, 03:41:15 PM »
I've been playing the miniatures games for over 25 years. What do you want to know?

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2014, 04:02:46 PM »
No, you can't use paper boxes. You have to use MEHTAL BAWKSES! ;D

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2014, 04:03:57 PM »
I've been playing the miniatures games for over 25 years. What do you want to know?

Everything!!!  ;D

Mostly, I wonder how all of this works. Are miniatures hard to assemble, for once? Do they have changeable weapons, or you assemble a miniature with one weapons and its stuck with it forever? Do miniatures have editions and can you use old miniatures with new rules?

Speaking of rules, WH40K seems to be in 7th edition now... does it mean that the previous edition isn't viable anymore and no-one plays it?

And to repeat my provocative question: can I play the game without miniatures?  ;D

Overall, is it an expensive hobby? I browsed some shops and they seem to be charging like $20 for a single miniature...

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2014, 04:11:11 PM »
In order:

Minis aren't that hard to assemble. Plastics are easier than metal, for obvious reasons, but not terribly hard for most things. They're not designed to be modifiable like that though...some people do it, but it involves a fair amount of customization work (rare earth magnets and Greenstuff modeling clay are usually involved).

Miniatures are not edition-specific, but the game does adhere to a standard called What You See Is What You Get (WYSIWYG) - if a unit has an item/upgrade/weapon, it should be depicted on the figure somewhere.

It'll be easy to find people playing the current edition (7th) and usually the preceding edition (6th), but further back no one bothers.

As for playing without minis....not really. Especially if 7th edition uses True Line of Sight to determine attack viability (if you can see a part of the target from where your mini is standing, you can shoot it), using a substitute that doesn't have the same visual height/width/profile would be cheating. You can find a lot of 3rd-party miniature makers who sell cheaper models, though you can't use non-GW products in official tournaments.

It's a hellishly expensive hobby. Plastic crack, really. One squad of 10-20 basic infantry guys (depending on faction) will run $30 to $35 US. Heroes/commander units tend to be single-packed for $20 each, elite infantry are usually between 2 and 5 per pack at $20 to $40. Vehicles go for $40-$50 each.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 04:12:55 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Online HairyHeretic

  • Lei varai barbu - The true bearded one
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Location: Ireland
  • Gender: Male
  • And the Scorpion said "Little frog .. I can swim."
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2014, 04:43:12 PM »
Mostly, I wonder how all of this works. Are miniatures hard to assemble, for once?

The plastic ones, not very.

The resin ones, a bit more so

The metal ones tend to be about on a par with the resin, but the additional weight in some models makes them a pain to hold together til the glue sets. They're also harder to convert.

Do they have changeable weapons, or you assemble a miniature with one weapons and its stuck with it forever?

Yes and no. You can choose to arm models with different weapons, but most players I know aren't anal about subsitutions.

"My Lord is modeled with a lightning claw, but I've actually armed him with a deamon weapon for this game."

Some of the larger models, mostly vehicles, some people will magnatize the weapon mounts so they can swap weapons on and off.

That's always seemed a bit much work for me :)

Do miniatures have editions and can you use old miniatures with new rules?

Miniatures sort of have editions. Sometimes codex revisions can see a particular model removed from the current line up. That may mean converting the model, saying it counts as something else, or simply abandoning it.

For example, I have a Chaos Lt armed with a kai gun (a massive deamonic bolter) from 4th edition. Both the Lt and the weapon were done away with in a later edition (5th I think), so now I use him as a heavy weapons trooper instead.

Speaking of rules, WH40K seems to be in 7th edition now... does it mean that the previous edition isn't viable anymore and no-one plays it?

Most people, particularly tournament players, stick with the current edition, as it's the easiest to find opponents for. There's nothing to prevent anyone playing with older editions if they want to.

Or making up their own rules for that matter.

And to repeat my provocative question: can I play the game without miniatures?  ;D

Theoretically yes, but it would make it more awkward.

Overall, is it an expensive hobby? I browsed some shops and they seem to be charging like $20 for a single miniature...

That sounds like a character model perhaps.

All in all, yes, it is an expensive hobby. I won't lie to you about that. The army you pick is also going to be a factor in the expense. Armies with lots of cheap, weak troops still need models, and lots more of them, hence they become more expensive. Orks, Imperial Guard and Tyranids tend to be expensive to build.

Armies with fewer, better troops (ie Marines) require less models, so is cheaper to build. Chaos Space Marines and Imperial Space Marines are probably on the cheaper end of the scale. Imperial Space Marines are pretty much the flagship army, so you'll find lots of them relatively cheap on ebay and such.

If you're looking to get into the hobby, look on ebay. You can probably pick up a rulebook and the start of an army for a relatively cheap price.

If you're interested in the Sisters, I have to say I'd advise against it. They're definitely one of the red headed step children of the 40k world. The model range is small, all metal and hasn't been updated in over 10 years. They don't have a full codex of their own, and tend to operate as an arm of the Ordo Hereticus (the Inquisition).

Now, you can use miniatures from other gaming companies, to a degree. You won't be able to use them in GW stores or official tournaments, but in friendly games, you're probably fine, and there are a lot of companies out there that do conversion parts (heads and shoulder pads are always popular), and some full miniatures that are roughly the same scale as GW ones.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2014, 04:55:08 PM »
Point of pedantry, but SoB did get a 5th edition Codex in White Dwarf in 2011. Nothing for 6th or 7th Ed, though.

Online HairyHeretic

  • Lei varai barbu - The true bearded one
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Location: Ireland
  • Gender: Male
  • And the Scorpion said "Little frog .. I can swim."
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2014, 04:56:22 PM »
I stand corrected. They're still pretty much the least supported army out there though.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2014, 05:10:41 PM »
That is true.

Though I am wrong again, after looking on Lexicanum - Sisters got a Digital-Only Ebook Codex release in 6e (2013).

Frankly, I think Dark Eldar are about as neglected as the Sisters. They trade places each edition as the faction who gets no love - DE's were skipped in 6e while Sisters got a book, DE got a full book to the Sister's WD article in 5e.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 05:12:26 PM by TheGlyphstone »