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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 53598 times)

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Offline consortium11

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #75 on: August 13, 2014, 02:34:44 PM »
Best doesn't mean perfect. It means better than better. :)

That's just how the 40K universe works.

Like I said, I think the Orks have already won.

Personally, I'm betting on the 'nids :P

The answer is Kaldor Draigo

It's my own pet theory that the reason the forces of Chaos are constantly trying to escape the Warp aren't nefarious in the slightest. Instead, through their powers of foresight, the Chaos Gods realised that Draigo would eventually come to enter the Warp and so are simply trying to escape him.

Going by fluff Draigo's pretty much the most powerful being to have ever existed in the 40K Universe... Emperor, Primarch's and Gods (Chaos and otherwise) included.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #76 on: August 13, 2014, 02:51:47 PM »
Mind-blowing question: what is Kaldor Draigo relationship to Khal Drogo?  ;D

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #77 on: August 13, 2014, 03:07:06 PM »
They're both extremely derivative names taken from Mongol culture. Nothing more, nothing less. But the less said about Khaldor Draigo the better - he makes Wardmarines look flawed and relatable in comparison to his Marysueosity.


Personally, I'm thinking that the big threat is still out extragalactic somewhere. The Tyranids aren't invading the galaxy to eat everything (though they are), they're running from something even more dangerous like roaches fleeing the exterminator.

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #78 on: August 13, 2014, 03:15:36 PM »
Personally, I'm thinking that the big threat is still out extragalactic somewhere. The Tyranids aren't invading the galaxy to eat everything (though they are), they're running from something even more dangerous like roaches fleeing the exterminator.

"The xenos emerged from the intergalactic space of the Local Group of galaxies, their Hive Mind drawn to the Milky Way by the psychic beacon of the Astronomican transmitted by the Emperor's presence in the Warp from Terra. The first officially recorded contact with the Tyranids for the Imperium of Man came during a Tyranid attack on an Ocean World called Tyran, and from there Hive Fleet Behemoth continued directly towards the center of the galaxy, consuming all the worlds in its path. The Tyranids were defeated, barely, by the efforts of the Ultramarines Chapter of the Space Marines during the Battle of Macragge, although the Ultramarines suffered devastating losses that would take centuries to replace."

Offline consortium11

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #79 on: August 13, 2014, 03:15:57 PM »
Personally, I'm thinking that the big threat is still out extragalactic somewhere. The Tyranids aren't invading the galaxy to eat everything (though they are), they're running from something even more dangerous like roaches fleeing the exterminator.

My lore might be out of date here, but weren't they drawn to the 40K Galaxy by the Astronomican as opposed to forced here?

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #80 on: August 13, 2014, 03:29:32 PM »
That's been implied, yeah, but never stated outright, and conflicts with the plotted paths of existing Hive Fleets - they're all going from outside towards the galactic core, rather than beelining to Terra. Also, if they were drawn to the Astronomicon, they could just besiege Terra directly, since Tyranid FTL is as screwed up as the rest of their biology.

Offline Inkidu

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #81 on: August 13, 2014, 03:35:45 PM »
You forgot to mention that they still use horses :P
I didn't actually know about that.

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #82 on: August 13, 2014, 03:40:35 PM »
That's been implied, yeah, but never stated outright, and conflicts with the plotted paths of existing Hive Fleets - they're all going from outside towards the galactic core, rather than beelining to Terra. Also, if they were drawn to the Astronomicon, they could just besiege Terra directly, since Tyranid FTL is as screwed up as the rest of their biology.

And why would they go directly for Terra exactly? The hive mind isn't stupid, it knows that the closer it gets to Terra, the more forces it'll have to fight, meaning that the easiest way to crush humanity is to attack the fringe worlds, thin the horde so to speak. Even a Hive Fleet wouldn't be able to stand against the forces defending Terra

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #83 on: August 13, 2014, 03:41:07 PM »
I didn't actually know about that.


Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #84 on: August 13, 2014, 03:43:04 PM »


And how many seconds do these guys last against Chaos Marines? :D

Okay, a more serious question: I checked Lexicanum and it seems that, although these guys are described in the Imperial Guard codex, the only miniatures for them are available from ForgeWorld, not Citadel. Are they canon, then? Can they be used in tournaments etc.?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 03:51:51 PM by Beorning »

Offline Inkidu

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #85 on: August 13, 2014, 03:51:42 PM »
And why would they go directly for Terra exactly? The hive mind isn't stupid, it knows that the closer it gets to Terra, the more forces it'll have to fight, meaning that the easiest way to crush humanity is to attack the fringe worlds, thin the horde so to speak. Even a Hive Fleet wouldn't be able to stand against the forces defending Terra
Aren't they attracted to the Astronomicon?

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #86 on: August 13, 2014, 03:57:15 PM »
And why would they go directly for Terra exactly? The hive mind isn't stupid, it knows that the closer it gets to Terra, the more forces it'll have to fight, meaning that the easiest way to crush humanity is to attack the fringe worlds, thin the horde so to speak. Even a Hive Fleet wouldn't be able to stand against the forces defending Terra

Aren't they attracted to the Astronomicon?

If they were drawn to the Astronomicon...they'd be heading for it. It's on Terra.

Quid pro quo, Latinus ex nonsensicus, whyever the Tyranids are here isn't because the Astronomicon is luring them like a giant psychic bug light.

If Tyranids mean to 'crush humanity' like you suggest, then picking off weak planets first makes sense - but then that means they're a weapon sent here to kill us, and contemplating an extragalactic power that can tame the Tyranid species is even scarier than contemplating one it is fleeing from.

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #87 on: August 13, 2014, 04:14:54 PM »
If they were drawn to the Astronomicon...they'd be heading for it. It's on Terra.

Quid pro quo, Latinus ex nonsensicus, whyever the Tyranids are here isn't because the Astronomicon is luring them like a giant psychic bug light.

If Tyranids mean to 'crush humanity' like you suggest, then picking off weak planets first makes sense - but then that means they're a weapon sent here to kill us, and contemplating an extragalactic power that can tame the Tyranid species is even scarier than contemplating one it is fleeing from.

What I meant to say is that, instead of just appearing in the Sol System and attacking Terra head-on, the Hive Mind is most likely trying to build its numbers before trying to take a bastion which, to the best of our knowledge, is defended by forces unlike any in the rest of the imperium. Yes the hive mind is bent on consuming life, but it is also acting on an evolutionary imperative to survive, which means it is not likely to endanger itself before it is powerful enough to do so. Because it is drawn to Terra, doesn't mean it can't get there in a roundabout way. Also, remember, what has been seen of the 'nids so far is but a minuscule fraction of the true Hive Fleet. Even Tigurius is sure that what the Galaxy has seen so far of the Tyranids pales in comparison to what is coming

Offline consortium11

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #88 on: August 13, 2014, 04:23:58 PM »
If they were drawn to the Astronomicon...they'd be heading for it. It's on Terra.

Quid pro quo, Latinus ex nonsensicus, whyever the Tyranids are here isn't because the Astronomicon is luring them like a giant psychic bug light.

That only works if you think of the Tyranids as mindless bugs who head straight "for the light".

If you think of them (or at least their hive mind) as a sentient creature then the Astronomican is less of a psychic bug light and more the equivalent of the creaky floorboard that someone trying to hide from a killer steps on. It doesn't mean that the killer will mindless head for the source of the noise... but it means you've got its attention. From the fluff (which outright states that the Tyranids are drawn by the Astronomican) it operates as a giant version of the Genestealer broodmind, sending out a signal to the Tyranids that there are devourable worlds avaliable.


Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #89 on: August 13, 2014, 04:26:32 PM »
That only works if you think of the Tyranids as mindless bugs who head straight "for the light".

If you think of them (or at least their hive mind) as a sentient creature then the Astronomican is less of a psychic bug light and more the equivalent of the creaky floorboard that someone trying to hide from a killer steps on. It doesn't mean that the killer will mindless head for the source of the noise... but it means you've got its attention. From the fluff (which outright states that the Tyranids are drawn by the Astronomican) it operates as a giant version of the Genestealer broodmind, sending out a signal to the Tyranids that there are devourable worlds avaliable.

True

Online HairyHeretic

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #90 on: August 13, 2014, 06:08:25 PM »
They're both extremely derivative names taken from Mongol culture. Nothing more, nothing less. But the less said about Khaldor Draigo the better - he makes Wardmarines look flawed and relatable in comparison to his Marysueosity.

On a positive note, it seems he is no longer with GW, according to the internet rumour mill this week.

Now we just need someone to retcon all the atrocities he's added to the 40k fluff.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #91 on: August 13, 2014, 06:21:30 PM »
On a positive note, it seems he is no longer with GW, according to the internet rumour mill this week.

Now we just need someone to retcon all the atrocities he's added to the 40k fluff.

Except Newcrons. They're an acquired taste, but I think the faction and setting are better off with the rewrite.

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #92 on: August 13, 2014, 06:26:45 PM »
On a positive note, it seems he is no longer with GW, according to the internet rumour mill this week.

Now we just need someone to retcon all the atrocities he's added to the 40k fluff.

Source? Just for reference... Kaldor was never a particularly interesting character to me...

Offline consortium11

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #93 on: August 13, 2014, 06:27:34 PM »
On a positive note, it seems he is no longer with GW, according to the internet rumour mill this week.

Now we just need someone to retcon all the atrocities he's added to the 40k fluff.

From what I understand (and setting apart the horrible Daemons of Chaos army book) he was actually a pretty good games designer (Fantasy Battle 8th edition got some solid reviews). It's just the fluff. Oh God, the fluff.

With Draigo I hope they go one of two routes:

1) We'll call this the "optimistic reimagining of the Mass Effect 3 ending" approach: as it turns out all the fluff about Drago and the things he supposedly did were simply the Chaos Gods manipulating his mind as he was caught in stasis in the Warp, the intention being to break him by showing that regardless of how many (implausible) things he achieved, he couldn't ever actually win.

2) The "Wire" option: Draigo, killer of Bloodthirsters (in the Warp), burner of part of Nurgle, demolisher of the Everchanging City, Resister of the Handmaiden's appears from the Warp and saves a company of Grey Knights who were in the midst of a last stand against a horde of Daemons and Cultists. As you'd expect Draigo... the single most powerful entity in the galaxy... handily wins the battle and turns to share one last look with his dear brothers before he's dragged into the warp.

Only to be shot in the head with a las-pistol by the kid son of one of the Cultists he'd just killed. The shot kills him dead. Ashamed by this ignoble ending and worried of what the reaction to the greatest defender of mankind being killed by a child with the equivalent of a potato gun, they expunge Draigo's name from the record and invoke exterminatus on any planet foolish enough to have someone mention his name.

Having shown a keen natural talent the kid goes on to be a Vindicare Assassin, making his name through the assasination of a heretic Ultramarines Librarian who'd written some really bizarre stuff about the Ultramarines being the greatest Space Marines ever and everyone being jealous and/or looking up to them.

Offline consortium11

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #94 on: August 13, 2014, 06:28:29 PM »
Source? Just for reference... Kaldor was never a particularly interesting character to me...

His LinkedIn page lists him having left GW in May.

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #95 on: August 13, 2014, 06:30:27 PM »
His LinkedIn page lists him having left GW in May.

PRAISE TO THE EMPEROR! OUR FLUFF IS SAVED!

On a more serious note... in general, I think great parts of the Wh40k lore needs rebooting retconning ASAP.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 06:42:04 PM by A Japanese Dane »

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #96 on: August 13, 2014, 07:25:22 PM »
Noooo, don't retcon anything!!!

Because, you know - if they decide to do this, they'll do this a month after I purchase the books / games. And I'll be left with old, useless edition!

I had this stuff done to me by Green Ronin and White Wolf, and I don't want this to happen again...

Offline Inkidu

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #97 on: August 13, 2014, 07:32:24 PM »
Newcrons will probably stick and that's the only major thing that would effect the books. The fluff can always be reworked as propaganda and manipulation like it always has been.

I think newcrons should stick. 40K already had one unfathomable ceaseless scourge: The Tyranids.


Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #98 on: August 13, 2014, 08:01:27 PM »
Besides, the Newcron revisions gave us Trazyn the Infinite and Nemesor Zhandrekh, the two most entertaining special characters 40K has seen since Wazdakka Gutsmek was written out of canon.

Offline Wajin

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #99 on: August 14, 2014, 01:45:37 AM »
Newcrons I can accept, but holy hell we need someone competent to rewrite the wardmarines, and find some way to quietly tell everyone that Draigo is gone for good