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Author Topic: WH40000 - what's your opinion?  (Read 53367 times)

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Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #325 on: September 15, 2014, 12:43:59 PM »
Yes, I see that now. I checked Vallejo's website and you're completely right.

Drat! I just saw that the shop I ordered the paints had restocked and the base colour black is available again. My package hasn't been sent yet, maybe they'll agree to modify the order? Because I don't need that ink and I don't want to pay for it. Nor do I want to pay for another package...

*types an e-mail to the shop and prays*

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #326 on: September 15, 2014, 02:01:57 PM »
Nothing wrong in showing work in progress shots. I haven't even started work on painting mine.

Gah! I tried getting a picture of one of my Grey Hunters, but my camera can't really capture the details ( I'm rather proud of the eyes! ). I'll have to try when the lighting is better - or see if I can't find a better camera.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #327 on: September 18, 2014, 10:37:42 AM »
My paints and brushes arrived today! I'm going to test them on some spare pieces of plastic and metal in a moment :)

Out of curiosity: are you guys usings magnifying glass to paint?

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #328 on: September 18, 2014, 01:22:32 PM »
Hmm. After doing some try-outs, I must say that... painting with acrylics is hard. Especially with those smallish-sized brushes. It's hard for me to get even surfaces. Smudge marks abound...

BTW. Any advice how to create thin lines? Even with an 000-sized brush, I get thick sploshes...

Offline Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #329 on: September 18, 2014, 03:47:41 PM »
Dab the excess paint off on your palette before applying it to the surface, that will help even up your lines. Practice is the only fix for the rest - you'll paint hundreds of terrible minis before they start looking good. ^^;

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #330 on: September 18, 2014, 04:34:29 PM »
Pretty much. I've been playing 40k since it first came out, and my painting is tabletop quality at best :)

Offline Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #331 on: September 18, 2014, 04:39:37 PM »
The thing to remember is - you can /always/ paint them again. Scrub the old paint off, re-prime, do it again.
Acrylic paint is great, in that way.

 .. in semi-related news, I have inherited an airbrush. Why do I have this sinking feeling ... oh. Nevermind, that's the pocketbook screaming. Carry on.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #332 on: September 18, 2014, 04:50:47 PM »
I should be able to pick up my pack of Sororitas next week. I plan on posting the results of painting them here for you to see and criticise :)

God, I wish I was making more money at that job I'm currently doing. I've just calculated the cost for my planned Adepta Sororitas Expeditionary Force and it's about $400. Even assuming I keep the job, I'll be building this army all the next year...

And I'm hoping to buy some Chaos Demons, too! I'll add them to the Chaos cultists and Chaos Marines from Dark Vengeance set, which I plan to ask for as a Christmas present...

And I need to buy Dark Heresy and Black Crusade, too...

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #333 on: September 18, 2014, 06:31:59 PM »
My painting progress is slow, so here are two work-in-progress shots.



What I've basically done so far is give the armor a coat of blue, washed it, and applied my first layer. The highlights are not as evident in reality as they are in the picture - I think getting it to look like that would be my first goal.

I'm unhappy with the hair color, so I might change that ( it's limited by the colors I actually have available at the moment ). You'll notice I haven't really gotten started on the weapons or any of the details yet. I'm also unhappy with the red belt. The central wolf image would get a different color, but even so I believe I'll change it. I'm not very good at using different colors, so I wanted to see what the results would be. It might look better after it gets a darker wash, but I think I'll change it - unless I'm feeling too lazy.

Unfortunately, the image quality isn't good enough to see the details I'm most happy with, namely the eyes. It took a lot of practice to get painting eyes right ( i.e. so it doesn't look completely blank - or stupid ), but it really does a lot for the overall look of the model. If you're close enough to actually see them.

Offline Oniya

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #334 on: September 18, 2014, 07:16:49 PM »
For thin lines, I've taken a really cheap brush (like the kind that come with kid's crafts) and cut away all but a cluster of 3-5 bristles.

Offline Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #335 on: September 18, 2014, 08:44:58 PM »
I cheat. I use a marker - a very fine Pigma Micron is excellent, and they go all the way down to .003 which does delicate text and scrollwork very very well.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #336 on: September 19, 2014, 04:37:45 PM »
What I've basically done so far is give the armor a coat of blue, washed it, and applied my first layer. The highlights are not as evident in reality as they are in the picture - I think getting it to look like that would be my first goal.

Please explain the idea of highlights / layers to me :) My plan for painting the miniatures is covering them in basic colours and applying some wash to simulate shadows...

On another note, here's a controversial question for you guys: what's so great about Space Marines?  ;D

I've looked through WH40K armies and some of them are quite appealing. Aside from the Sororitas, I like the Demons and Dark Eldar. But most of the line's focus seems to be on the Marines, both normal and Chaos ones. Who are... just impossibly big guys in comic-booky armour... Where's all the love coming from?

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #337 on: September 19, 2014, 04:52:02 PM »
In tabletop terms, Marines are a good beginners army. They're decent at most things, which makes them an easy one to learn the game with. I'm told that Marines sell more than every other army combined.

Every Marine chapter is different. The more popular ones have some fairly decent backgrounds. See if you can find the old Index Astartes articles that go into the history of the different Primarchs and their Legions.

And if you have time, read the Horus Heresy series of novels.

Now, my own favourites are the Night Lords.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Night_Lords

That will give you perhaps a better view on them than impossibly big guys in comic-booky armour.

Same with the Night Lords novel trilogy, Soul Hunter, Blood Reaver and Void Stalker by Aaron Dembski-Bowden. They add depth to the Legions stories.

Keep in mind, you're dealing with about 30 years worth of background. That's a lot of fluff built up that you're not aware of yet.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #338 on: September 19, 2014, 05:42:52 PM »
I see. I'll look into the backgrounds, then.

I didn't mean to offend or sound foolish, it's just "big muscled guy" is my least favourite type of fictional hero...

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #339 on: September 19, 2014, 05:50:42 PM »
I see. I'll look into the backgrounds, then.

I didn't mean to offend or sound foolish, it's just "big muscled guy" is my least favourite type of fictional hero...

On the other hand, you've got a good grasp there on why it's so popular, completely aside from the genuine merits of their fiction. They are the quintessential Big Muscley Action Hero power-male fantasy, turned up to 11 like everything else in 40K. Not your thing, but it's a well-proven demographic all the same.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #340 on: September 19, 2014, 08:08:37 PM »
I see. I'll look into the backgrounds, then.

I didn't mean to offend or sound foolish, it's just "big muscled guy" is my least favourite type of fictional hero...

I never took any offense at your words :)

I've been playing 40k since it came out. I know the background. I remember things that have been retconned out of existance.

There are times I hate the rules, and what is done to the armies I play, but the background is what keeps me playing :)

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #341 on: September 20, 2014, 11:37:04 AM »
Please explain the idea of highlights / layers to me :) My plan for painting the miniatures is covering them in basic colours and applying some wash to simulate shadows...

You're going to want at least three layer: Base, wash, and a layer. Generally, you want to have a base color, a darker wash, and a lighter layer color ( and possibly even lighter highlights in places ). It basically makes the model look more naturally lit, and less flat.

I say 'generally' because you can do some neat things by going from light to dark instead; I painted some Dark Eldar with a sort of 'inverted' lighting, and it made for a pretty cool effect.

Quote
On another note, here's a controversial question for you guys: what's so great about Space Marines?  ;D

I've looked through WH40K armies and some of them are quite appealing. Aside from the Sororitas, I like the Demons and Dark Eldar. But most of the line's focus seems to be on the Marines, both normal and Chaos ones. Who are... just impossibly big guys in comic-booky armour... Where's all the love coming from?

Honestly - nothing. Space Wolves, that I'm playing, have a fairly good background, but I still don't find them terribly interesting, compared to some of the other armies available.

My reason for picking Space Wolves was mostly based on gameplay. I've played Tau before, and Tau are extremely range-based. In close combat, they'll lose to even regular Imperial Guard. At range, they'll pulverize anything, more or less. I basically wanted to play an army with solid assault ( close combat ) capabilities ( Space Wolves actually do both shooting and assault reasonably well - they're some sort of strange shooting and defensive assault mix ).

There's a few armies I could've gone with, so I basically just eliminated the ones I didn't want to play. I ended up having to choose between one of the Space Marines chapters - Space Wolves was simply the most appealing of those.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #342 on: September 20, 2014, 05:29:09 PM »
You're going to want at least three layer: Base, wash, and a layer. Generally, you want to have a base color, a darker wash, and a lighter layer color ( and possibly even lighter highlights in places ). It basically makes the model look more naturally lit, and less flat.

Aren't layer paints somewhat transparent? My Vallejo paints seem to be quite opaque, I think...

Regarding painting: I tried painting some bottle caps today and I still have problems. For once, I can't make any kind of even, smooth surfaces. They end up looking like this:



Basically, they are either nicely opaque, but too thick - or thin, but not really opaque. And they have these smudge marks - because I'm unable to spread the paint evenly on a surface. I place a drop of paint in one place and it looks okay... but when I try to spread it, I just end up moving it and leaving the first location half-covered. What am I doing wrong?  ???

Also, I have a problem with brushes. See these thick lines?



I made them with a 000 brush. Seriously. It's supposed to be a detail brush... but it makes those 1 - 2 mm lines...

I thought it got clogged or something, so I washed it under water. But in effect, it became a little bushy and totally not pointed anymore...

Quote
Honestly - nothing. Space Wolves, that I'm playing, have a fairly good background, but I still don't find them terribly interesting, compared to some of the other armies available.

My reason for picking Space Wolves was mostly based on gameplay. I've played Tau before, and Tau are extremely range-based. In close combat, they'll lose to even regular Imperial Guard. At range, they'll pulverize anything, more or less. I basically wanted to play an army with solid assault ( close combat ) capabilities ( Space Wolves actually do both shooting and assault reasonably well - they're some sort of strange shooting and defensive assault mix ).

Hm. I chose Sororitas because I liked the concept. I'd also like to try playing Demons or Dark Eldar, because they have some awesome designs...

I never took any offense at your words :)

Ah. Good to know, then :)

On the other hand, you've got a good grasp there on why it's so popular, completely aside from the genuine merits of their fiction. They are the quintessential Big Muscley Action Hero power-male fantasy, turned up to 11 like everything else in 40K. Not your thing, but it's a well-proven demographic all the same.

I see. I really don't understand that kind of male fantasy, though...

Offline Hemingway

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #343 on: September 20, 2014, 05:57:57 PM »
You're probably going to want to do a few things for better results:

1: Dilute your paints. You should get a palette ( or something similar ) and get a bit of paint from the jar, and mix it with a small amount of water - experiment to see what gives the best results. I can't ever seem to get the mix right, so I won't tell you how much to use.

2: Use longer, smoother strokes - don't try to get perfect cover in one layer. It looks like you're trying to paint white ( or a light color ) over red. Covering that red is going to take several fine layers of white.

3: Use less paint.

It bears mentioning that a bottle cap doesn't have the same surface or texture as a plastic miniature. In a case like that, using a spray primer would be a really good idea.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #344 on: September 20, 2014, 06:07:27 PM »
If a jar of paint has sat for a while, it can tend to .. seperate a bit .. becoming thinner and waterier at the top, thicker below. Did you stir the paint before using it?

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #345 on: September 20, 2014, 06:50:04 PM »
You're probably going to want to do a few things for better results:

1: Dilute your paints. You should get a palette ( or something similar ) and get a bit of paint from the jar, and mix it with a small amount of water - experiment to see what gives the best results. I can't ever seem to get the mix right, so I won't tell you how much to use.

2: Use longer, smoother strokes - don't try to get perfect cover in one layer. It looks like you're trying to paint white ( or a light color ) over red. Covering that red is going to take several fine layers of white.

3: Use less paint.

It bears mentioning that a bottle cap doesn't have the same surface or texture as a plastic miniature. In a case like that, using a spray primer would be a really good idea.

The miniatures I ordered are actually metal ones, that's why I tried painting on metal...

Anyway, I'll try diluting the paint. Maybe this will help...

If a jar of paint has sat for a while, it can tend to .. seperate a bit .. becoming thinner and waterier at the top, thicker below. Did you stir the paint before using it?

Actually, yes. It didn't help...

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #346 on: September 20, 2014, 08:41:26 PM »
Okay, so I experimented and it looks like the problem was in me using too much paint.

It seems that Vallejo's Game Colour paints are more like GW's layer paints, not base paints... so, I shouldn't have expected them to create a smooth, opaque surface with one stroke. I tried applying the paint in moderation and in a few layers - and the effect is much better. Tiny stroke traces are still visible on the surface, but maybe it has to be that way?

Also, please correct me, but... one is supposed to use a wet brush when painting, right? Because I forgot about it the first time around. I guess that tiny amount of water might be useful...

As we're speaking of painting, I have a question: how do you paint eyes on the miniatures?

Offline Thorne

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #347 on: September 21, 2014, 03:29:51 AM »
Very ... very carefully. Eyes are actually the pet peeve about .. ninety-five percent of mini-painters? Is there anyone who /likes/ doing eyes?

So, there are a couple of ways to do that. To get that lovely, perfect black outline (because lashes at that level of detail are just not happening), you start by painting that whole area - the surface of the eye, and a little bit up over the lid - black. Then you go back over /just/ the surface of the eye area with white. Then you take the tip of your brush and you dab a teeny bit of black or dark grey into the area you want the iris/pupil to be. And if you do it right, you don't end up with a cross-eyed mini.

I cheat. Up to the point of the iris, I do everything pretty much the way I just described. Be sure to let your layers dry thoroughly (a hair-dryer on cool actually works wonders for drying layers quickly. But you want it on cold, not hot. Especially for plastic minis - but even on the metal ones, paint really doesn't like being heated up). Once I have my eye surface prepped, I take one of those pigma micron markers (a .005, or so) I mentioned a couple of posts back and put my dots in with that. Little easier to get them even, and I don't have the risk of getting huge blots of paint and having to wipe it off and start over.

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Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #348 on: September 21, 2014, 07:27:23 AM »
I have as many as possible wear helmets :)

I am one of those who suck at doing eyes. When forced to, I try to do the entire eye white, then get a tiny dot of black in the middle.

Offline BeorningTopic starter

Re: WH40000 - what's your opinion?
« Reply #349 on: September 21, 2014, 07:51:45 AM »
Very ... very carefully. Eyes are actually the pet peeve about .. ninety-five percent of mini-painters? Is there anyone who /likes/ doing eyes?

So, there are a couple of ways to do that. To get that lovely, perfect black outline (because lashes at that level of detail are just not happening), you start by painting that whole area - the surface of the eye, and a little bit up over the lid - black. Then you go back over /just/ the surface of the eye area with white. Then you take the tip of your brush and you dab a teeny bit of black or dark grey into the area you want the iris/pupil to be. And if you do it right, you don't end up with a cross-eyed mini.

So, you try doing eyes with outlines?

When browsing YT tutorials, I found this way of doing eyes:

1. Paint the general area of the eye and a bit more white, without paying much attention to the shape.
2. Make the pupil.
3. Use skin colour to cover the excess white and leave a nicely-shaped eye.

I guess the author's idea was that it's easier to make two splashes of white and stroke them over into an eye shape, than to try to paint perfect white eyes from the start...

BTW. I'm going to be using a flesh-coloured wash to shade the face. What's your opinion: should I paint the eyes first and apply the shade later, or shade the face first and, then, paint the eyes onto the shaded face?