Coronavirus: Discussion and Information

[Annaamarth]

I like the "Fork Hands" video.

[CopperLily]

Fork Hands is one of the best examples of science communication I think I've ever seen.

[CopperLily]

I saw an interview recently where someone said that if Trump had never made this political we would not be where we are today.  I don't remember who it was, but they are probably right.  There has been a group of anti-vax people for a little over a decade now at least.  The chicken pox vaccine came out when I was in high school think, and there was some push back on requiring it for school, but nothing on this level.  We've had SARS, bird flu, swine flu, ebola, all sorts of diseases come into this country, and things were scary, but people listened to the CDC and did what they needed to do and it was all handled.  At the beginning of this I wasn't expecting anything different. 

There was a time when the CDC was the 2nd most trusted agency in the U.S. government. Republican and Democratic presidents had different priorities for the agency (Republics were keen on bioterrorism prevention post-9/11, for example) but they were treated with respect.

The damage this has done, long term to public health, by undermining that trust, by the number of people who have left public health (which doesn't pay well) because they were tired of being ignored, screamed at, etc. is incalculable.

[Azuresun]

There was a time when the CDC was the 2nd most trusted agency in the U.S. government. Republican and Democratic presidents had different priorities for the agency (Republics were keen on bioterrorism prevention post-9/11, for example) but they were treated with respect.

The damage this has done, long term to public health, by undermining that trust, by the number of people who have left public health (which doesn't pay well) because they were tired of being ignored, screamed at, etc. is incalculable.

One thing we need in the wake of this is an all-out war on anti-vaxxers and the grifters who lead them. Get this stuff into school science classes, close whatever loopholes the ringleaders are keeping themselves out of jail by, splatter their profiteering schemes all over the headlines. They've been tolerated far too long.

[stormwyrm]

The damage this has done, long term to public health, by undermining that trust, by the number of people who have left public health (which doesn't pay well) because they were tired of being ignored, screamed at, etc. is incalculable.

And you have to wonder at Dr Fauci, who is the public face for much of this. His patience and fortitude must rival that of the saints. Much respect for the man, who had to endure a year of Trump's infamous tirades and scorn for being the gadfly to his anti-science administration. And now Fauci still has to do what he can to repair the damage that has been done.

[Haibane]

At least in Europe there are political systems which are able to say "Enough is enough". Austria is seriously contemplating a lockdown only for the unvaccinated.

FFS the WORLD needs to implement this sort of action. Quite frankly f--- free speech and personal rights.

[Haibane]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59245018

Gah. I hit send before I added the link. Apologies. I'm stressed over this BS.

[Oniya]

A Federal judge has declared that Gov. Abbott cannot ban mask mandates.

A key factor in the ruling seems to be a federal law protecting disabled students, some of whom might be more vulnerable to COVID.

[Haibane]

As I linked above, Austria has now put into law a lockdown for the unvaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59283128

[Haibane]

Oh shit, variant B.1.1529 which has been identified in parts of S Africa looks "horrific". It has 50 mutations overall and 30 mutations in the spike protein.

There might be no end to this, this virus might be the end of us :(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59418127

[stormwyrm]

If it does become necessary that's when the mRNA vaccines will come into their own. It is not hard to make new mRNA vaccine that codes for a variant's spike protein and then we'll have polyvalent COVID-19 vaccines, just like the vaccines for many other diseases. I can only hope that we'll get lucky and this one isn't going to sweep the world the way Delta did and what vaccines we've got will still have reasonable effectiveness against it. It's going to be a real pain to have to distribute vaccines around the world yet again.

[Haibane]

The BBC reports I have been reading suggest this variant may be able to bypass our existing vaccines but then again often the media sensationalises things. I do hope you are right - I really do - with the madness of the anti-vax community really gaining in aggressive tactics and the rich countries looking after No. and not distributing enough vaccines to the poor countries we could suffer a fifth wave worse than others before it.

A part of me can only see light at the tunnel's end with a compulsory vaccination programme. People have accepted this before in previous decades with other vaccines but that was pre-internet when lies and fear could not so easily be peddled around the planet.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59427770

[Thufir Hawat]

A part of me can only see light at the tunnel's end with a compulsory vaccination programme.

Yeah, I've been in favour of it lately. Of course, the region that's worst hit right now, i.e. Europe, is also among the least likely to accept it...

[Dhi]

The BBC reports I have been reading suggest this variant may be able to bypass our existing vaccines but then again often the media sensationalises things.

I've been in the science game for a while and one certainty is that the media will sensationalize any science story. Intrinsically the journalists reporting don't understand the ramifications of the science involved, and make projections for the benefit of readers they consider even less science-savvy or science-interested. This is where we get grotesquely oversimplified headlines like Catsup cures cancer.

Nigeria is one of the handful of places in the world well equipped for viral genome sequencing, due to the study of West Nile Virus and Ebola. Most areas of active infection right now do not have the same apparatus for analysis. It's almost certain that the US, for example, has already seen mutations like this and that it has gone undetected in the 99.7% of cases we do not bother sequencing. If that is the case, those variants have not significantly moved the needle on mortality or breakthrough cases.

[Haibane]

Yeah, I've been in favour of it lately. Of course, the region that's worst hit right now, i.e. Europe, is also among the least likely to accept it...

I can't think of any state that would accept it apart from possibly Japan and S. Korea and you're going to get a 'no' minority there too. That's putting aside the extreme dictatorships of course, when in some cases it doesn't matter if a nation's populace don't accept it.

[Azy]

It's making me a little nuts that every little sniffle has to be tested for Covid.  I just got a group text from my aunt this morning that she and my uncle are stuffed up with sore throats.  They will get tested and let the rest of us who were at Thanksgiving know.  My uncle replied that his granddaughter and the one foster kid they had were getting over a cold, and it was probably that.  The kids were tested for Covid just in case, and negative.  I know Covid is serious, but there are thousands of other bugs that existed well before last year and are still hanging around.  Last I knew, nasal congestion wasn't even a symptom.  I remember seeing this little chart of symptoms when I last went to urgent care.  Nasal congestion can be part of a cold or the flu, but under the Covid box was no.  And yet every little sneeze makes people urge you to go get a Covid test.   

[Oreo]

https://youtu.be/njG2oW6CnDc

[Thufir Hawat]

I can't think of any state that would accept it apart from possibly Japan and S. Korea and you're going to get a 'no' minority there too. That's putting aside the extreme dictatorships of course, when in some cases it doesn't matter if a nation's populace don't accept it.

Austria, anyone ?

[Thufir Hawat]

I've been in the science game for a while and one certainty is that the media will sensationalize any science story. Intrinsically the journalists reporting don't understand the ramifications of the science involved, and make projections for the benefit of readers they consider even less science-savvy or science-interested. This is where we get grotesquely oversimplified headlines like Catsup cures cancer.

Nigeria is one of the handful of places in the world well equipped for viral genome sequencing, due to the study of West Nile Virus and Ebola. Most areas of active infection right now do not have the same apparatus for analysis. It's almost certain that the US, for example, has already seen mutations like this and that it has gone undetected in the 99.7% of cases we do not bother sequencing. If that is the case, those variants have not significantly moved the needle on mortality or breakthrough cases.

Thing is, most of those variants are caused by variants which do not lead to significant variations in the behaviour of the virus. We can assume, and would be right in most cases, that they're not THAT different.
Omicron, OTOH, has marked differences. And surprise, surprise, it has 30 differences vs 9 for the Delta variant...
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/11/why-omicron-quickly-became-a-variant-of-concern/

Add this to the fears of an actual vaccine-resistent strain emerging, and you can see why Omicron is cause for concern, at least, while variants with more similar behaviour are not.

[Haibane]

Greece imposes monthly rolling fines for those over 60 who refuse to be vaccinated. Funds generated by fines will go to assist the Greek health service.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59474808

[Annaamarth]

This may seem off-topic.  I promise, it is not.

https://youtu.be/fWvAI6XEkkE

[Oreo]

This may seem off-topic.  I promise, it is not.

https://youtu.be/fWvAI6XEkkE

Brilliant.

[Thufir Hawat]

Greece imposes monthly rolling fines for those over 60 who refuse to be vaccinated. Funds generated by fines will go to assist the Greek health service.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59474808

Now if only my country would take note of the neighbours' good practices !

[Haibane]

Germany bans the unvaccinated from restaurants, cinemas, leisure facilities and many shops.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59502180

Given that Europe's take up of vaccinations is only about 2/3rds, this had to happen. I am sick to death of the virus and the anti-vaxx idiots have done enough damage.

[Haibane]

Italian man investigated by police after attending C-19 vaccination centre with a silicone false arm patch. Apparently he wanted to get a vaccine certificate without being vaccinated. When the nurse rolled up his sleeve and found the silicone patch the man tried to persuade them to fraudulently issue a certificate.

What. A. Fucking. Irresponsible. Selfish. Idiot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59524527

The same article also reports that in Italy from Monday the unvaccinated will be banned from railway stations, cinemas, restaurants, gyms and swimming pools.