Coronavirus: Discussion and Information

[Chantarelle]

Ha! I meant “out loud”. 🤗

[CopperLily]

Just over 550 days since I first emailed one of my graduate students to find out if she was interested in shifting some of their research towards looking at a novel coronavirus.

Christ I'm tired.

[Oniya]

CDC now urging vaccination of all people 12 and over, including those who are pregnant and/or breast-feeding.

Significant data has been gathered since the initial clinical trials to show that the vaccine is safe and effective for expecting people and the fetus.

[Azy]

Okay, so...  You don't want to get the vaccine?  Cool.  Then wear a mask in public indoor areas, because that has also been proven to slow the spread.  But that infringes on our freedoms!  This is why a lot of people are getting frustrated, and a large group of people are seeming very selfish and ignorant.  We all want things to get back to at least relatively normal, but there are people insisting on it, and not willing to do anything even slightly inconvenient or uncomfortable to help the situation. 

I've been having this conversation with my boyfriend that's been frustrating, because up until recently he was resisting the vaccine.  Not because he doesn't trust it or anything.  His main point is that he's a Door Dash delivery driver.  Now, tip your Door Dash drivers well, because believe me, they are paid peanuts.  He has spoken to some friends online who have gotten vaccinated and heard side effect horror stories about they were laid up 3 or 4 days feeling like crap.  His argument was if it happened to him, he could not afford to take that many days off.  A somewhat valid point, because he's been struggling as is.  Part of why he was in such bad straights though was he did get Covid back in April thanks to his ex-wife, and wasn't able to work for 2 weeks.  Incidentally, when this happened, I had had the first shot, and his mother was fully vaccinated, and we are the only people he was in close contact with that week whose tests were negative.  There were government programs he was pointed to that were supposed to help him, but they weren't.  So he said that he would not take the vaccine unless he could get a 100% guarantee that he would have no side effects, or he would be monetarily compensated up front for any work he may miss due to side effects.  I told him that while he had a bit of a point with his concerns, by running around vaccinated, risking getting Covid again.  Yeah, supposedly you get antibodies which protect you for a little while after you have it.  But which would be worse, losing 2, maybe 3 days of work from vaccine side effects, or another 2 weeks from getting Covid again?  To me it wasn't a difficult question. 

I am vaccinated, and I really didn't have much in the way of side effects.  After the first, a sore arm and a low grade fever that was gone the next morning.  The second shot, my arm ached for a few hours, and that was all she wrote.  But now I'm worried because of these variants popping up. That's what a virus does, and why it can be very dangerous. So far I hear the Delta variant that's the most common right now, the vaccines are a little bit less effective, but you still have some protection.  My fear is that because this has been made into such a political issue and people are refusing to cooperate, this is going to be the pandemic that never ends. 

When I was a kid and started school I had to do a physical and have proof that I had been given certain required vaccines.  I don't remember a big stink being made over it.  Maybe it was because I was a kid and not paying attention to that kind of thing, but I don't remember people getting their panties in a twist over vaccines and personal freedom to choose until I was in high school.  Of course that was about when the internet became an accessible thing, so maybe there is some cause and effect there.         

[Oniya]

Unfortunately, the duration and intensity of after-effects does vary.  Mr. Oniya got the J&J vaccine and was absolutely fine.  Little Oni and I got Pfizer and felt like crap for about 48 hours.  I was still able to function (I don't get 'days off' unless both of them have gone somewhere) but I would have preferred staying in bed for at least half of that time.

Still, doesn't compare to having a hacking cough or being unable to breathe.

There are people who do get their panties in a bunch about childhood vaccines (which is why we had that measles outbreak a few years back) but they're also the people who usually homeschool so that their kids don't get exposed to any ideas that contradict what the parents believe - much less common childhood diseases.  (There are valid reasons for some kids to be homeschooled - this is a particular subset that I'm talking about.)

[Azy]

I've heard that the J&J seems to have the worst side effects.  An FB friend of mine got that one and her monthly woman thing is all sorts of messed up now.  I had the Moderna, and after the first shot I was 4 days late, but after that back to pretty much normal. 

[Oniya]

I think the article I linked mentions a study regarding effects on the menstrual cycle (so many things can influence that, including garden-variety stress, which we've had in abundance for the past 18 months).

I was much more focused on the recommendation for pregnant individuals, as loads of things have a caution if you're pregnant or breast-feeding, due to a) not being tested on people who are pregnant for ethical reasons and b) inability to verify if the substance crosses the placental blood barrier.  Heck, I even gave up caffeine when I knew I was pregnant.

[CopperLily]

I was much more focused on the recommendation for pregnant individuals, as loads of things have a caution if you're pregnant or breast-feeding, due to a) not being tested on people who are pregnant for ethical reasons and b) inability to verify if the substance crosses the placental blood barrier.  Heck, I even gave up caffeine when I knew I was pregnant.

Doing research on pregnant folks is a *nightmare* in terms of regulation (for very, very valid reasons).

[Laughing Hyena]

Only speaking from my personal experience, but I got the double shot of Pfizer. I am forty and overweight concerning previous debates just so people get more info on me. First shot made me feel a touch of fatigue for a day and a sore arm for three after. Second shot was completely fine. All in all, I had a fairly easy time with it so I can count my blessings.

[Iniquitous]

Looks like I will be getting a third shot of Moderna now that the FDA has approved boosters for immunocompromised.  Please, please, please... no side effects this time.

[Azy]

I am also overweight, which was why I was able to get it as early I was.  Not sure that has a lot to do with anything though, because nobody in my family really had any major side effects. 

[Saria]

Only speaking from my personal experience, but I got the double shot of Pfizer. I am forty and overweight concerning previous debates just so people get more info on me. First shot made me feel a touch of fatigue for a day and a sore arm for three after. Second shot was completely fine. All in all, I had a fairly easy time with it so I can count my blessings.

Interesting. I got a Pfizer twofer as well, but had exactly the opposite response. Not a thing happened after the first shot; after the second my arm was sort as hell for a couple days.

[Annaamarth]

Pfizer->pfizer, though due to scheduling my booster was delayed by ... closer to three months than three weeks. Pharmacist said it'd be fine, but I was prepared to start from scratch... hope it works out.

2nd was yesterday, and I am feeling it.

[Iniquitous]

So, the newest conspiracy theory making it's rounds here at work (amongst inmates AND staff) is that the vaccines are making people get covid and the government is going to start going door to door to force everyone to take the vaccine and in 24 hours everyone will have covid.

Sweet, merciful Gods save me from these spreadnecks.

[stormwyrm]

Gov. Abbott literally fiddles while his state burns with the coronavirus. Nero at least did some things to help the people of Rome after the fire, but what Abbott and DeSantis and others like them are doing look more like pouring petrol on the flames.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/14/republican-leaders-fiddle-while-covid-burns-through-their-own-supporters

[Skynet]

Gov. Abbott literally fiddles while his state burns with the coronavirus. Nero at least did some things to help the people of Rome after the fire, but what Abbott and DeSantis and others like them are doing look more like pouring petrol on the flames.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/14/republican-leaders-fiddle-while-covid-burns-through-their-own-supporters

Nurgle would be proud.

[Blythe]

...the 'Freedom Rally' that happened in Oklahoma on the 14th made my damn head hurt from all the stupid at it.

They all went there to protest against vaccines/mask mandates.

I'm sure in about two weeks that the superspreader event (over 5,000+ attended if you can believe the conservative politicians making the claims, like Warren Hamilton. Which, given Oklahoma is a solid red state, I probably can believe in this one instance) will spike the covid-19 numbers to hideous levels in the state.

I already have had friends with horrible injuries who did their part to be responsible in society by being vaccinated, social distancing, and wearing a mask, who were rejected from hospital emergency care several times because hospitals here are running out of beds. Because of covid-19 infected anti-vaxxers.

The selfishness of the people determined to spread covid-19 in the name of 'freedom' is appalling.

[Mr Quixotic]

Had the first Covid case in my area for over a year last Thursday and am now in the first week of a (probably to be extended further) strict three week lock down. Could be worse as Sydney has been locked down for two months already, with no signs of that easing and Victoria is in it's sixth!

Comedian Celeste Barber explains all!

https://twitter.com/celestebarber_/status/1426806399833575430?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[Lilias]

Meanwhile, in the trenches: https://twitter.com/jessicam6946/status/1426569586963632140

[Azy]

I've heard healthcare workers are at their wits end.  The vaccine was supposed to be the light at the end of the tunnel, and because of misinformation, it's not.  I've read that people go into the hospital dying of Covid, and begging for the vaccine, but by then it's too late. 

[BlueOrange]

Had the first Covid case in my area for over a year last Thursday and am now in the first week of a (probably to be extended further) strict three week lock down. Could be worse as Sydney has been locked down for two months already, with no signs of that easing and Victoria is in it's sixth!

Comedian Celeste Barber explains all!

https://twitter.com/celestebarber_/status/1426806399833575430?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Except, of course, that Sydney has more cases than Melbourne, and Melbourne’s lockdown is stricter than Sydney’s.

I am so thoroughly fed up with the LNP and their pathological selfishness. (Wow, my phone automatically follows LNP with pathological selfishness.  Well done, phone!)

[Oniya]

Spotted this article in The Atlantic a few days ago: Vaccine Refusers Risk Compassion Fatigue - they do the 'so many free articles a month' thing, so I'll summarize.

Health care workers are getting frustrated and even fed up about the fact that much the current wave could have been avoided by people getting the vaccine.  The people that have chosen against medical advice to skip the vaccine are putting medical professionals and their families in harm's way because:

“What makes me the maddest,” one of my doctor friends told me, “is that these people will reject science right until the second they need everything I have to keep them alive, and then they feel that they can come to our door and be entitled to that help and that hard work.” This friend is characterizing the inconsistency in the behavior she sees in people declining a vaccine but then demanding medical care based on the same science. That inconsistency feels, to her and to other dedicated medical professionals trying to survive this pandemic, very much like dishonesty.

Some of these people have children under 12 (probably quite a lot of them) who can't get the vaccine yet. (There's actually already recruiting for volunteers for a clinical study.)  These doctors and nurses are having to avoid their own kids because of their commitment to trying to keep people alive.

[Lilias]

I may have posted this already, but again, anyone who isn't following One Vaxxed Nurse yet (there's a corresponding site, but the FB pieces are running a bit ahead) should do so asap.

(If you absolutely refuse to do FB, Dear Pandemic is the other place to get solid info.)

[Azy]

There was a guy who posted a video on Tik Tok that got posted to a page I follow on FB expressing similar frustration.  What he said was his wife has stage 4 breast cancer, and went into the hospital because of some painful symptoms she was having.  I guess the idea was to keep her comfortable.  But then they had to discharge her because they needed the bed or a Covid patient.  Since the procedures weren't going to save her life, they weren't considered critical. He was pissed because 90% of hospitalized people are not vaccinated.  They refused the vaccine because they didn't trust science, but then getting Covid and getting very sick quickly changed their minds.  He was basically saying if you don't trust science enough to get the vaccine, don't turn hypocrite when you get sick and run to the hospital, taking away resources from people who need them, like his wife. 

[Annaamarth]

For anyone who is hesitant to take the vaccine and is skeptical of masks - here is some balanced, realistic advice for those who choose to remain unvaccinated.

https://youtu.be/CcnCYdZw72k