Coronavirus: Discussion and Information

Started by Blythe, January 05, 2021, 05:38:56 PM

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Lilias

I can't find sources in anything but Greek, but here's the gist: Fake vaccination certificates have been a big problem in Greece, and several health provider rings have been exposed. Some just measured out the dose and threw it away, others gave a saline injection instead. Reputed fees for a fake certificate can be in the five figures. The best of them all, however, was a group of doctors and nurses who took the money, then vaccinated their would-be cheaters properly. Gave us all a good laugh when it hit the media. I'm not even sure they can be charged with anything - not even bribery, because they didn't do what they were getting bribed to do!
To go in the dark with a light is to know the light.
To know the dark, go dark. Go without sight,
and find that the dark, too, blooms and sings,
and is traveled by dark feet and dark wings.
~Wendell Berry

Double Os <> Double As (updated Dec 12) <> The Hoard <> 50 Tales 2024 <> The Lab <> ELLUIKI

Thufir Hawat

Quote from: Haibane on December 02, 2021, 12:06:02 PM
Germany bans the unvaccinated from restaurants, cinemas, leisure facilities and many shops.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59502180

Given that Europe's take up of vaccinations is only about 2/3rds, this had to happen. I am sick to death of the virus and the anti-vaxx idiots have done enough damage.
Yeah, it has to happen.
Also, nearly 2/3 of Germans support the idea. (My respect for Germany only grew as a result!)

https://www.dpa-international.com/topic/poll-germans-back-mandatory-vaccines-christmas-worries-grow-urn%3Anewsml%3Adpa.com%3A20090101%3A211205-99-262674
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Oniya

Not that this should surprise anyone, but the House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis has released a report on how the previous administration fucked things up.

From the table of contents:

QuotePART I: THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR A SERIES OF CRITICAL FAILURES THAT UNDERMINED THE NATION’S ABILITY TO RESPOND EFFECTIVELY TO THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC
5. The Trump Administration’s Persistent Political Interference in the Pandemic Response Contributed to One of the Worst Failures of Leadership in American History
8. The Trump Administration’s Failure to Execute an Early Response Strategy and Address Critical Supply Shortages Exacerbated the Public Health Emergency and Put Countless American Lives at Risk

PART II: COMPANIES PROFITED DURING THE PANDEMIC WHILE ENDANGERING THE PUBLIC’S HEALTH
10. The Subcommittee Uncovered Evidence that Coronavirus Infections and Deaths Among Meatpacking Workers for Five of the Largest Meatpacking Companies Were Nearly Three Times Higher than Previously Estimated
13. Emergent BioSolutions, Inc. Wasted Hundreds of Millions of Taxpayer Dollars and Ruined Tens of Millions of Coronavirus Vaccine Doses

PART III: THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION’S QUESTIONABLE MANAGEMENT OF PANDEMIC RELIEF PROGRAMS LEFT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT VULNERABLE TO FRAUD AND PROFITEERING, WHILE FAILING TO EFFECTIVELY AND EQUITABLY DELIVER RELIEF
14. The Farmers-to-Families Food Box Program Wasted Taxpayer Dollars and Was Used as a Partisan Tool to Secure Political Advantages for Former President Trump
17. The Pandemic Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) Program Lacked Vital Fraud Controls During the Trump Administration
20. The Select Subcommittee Uncovered Evidence that Trump White House Officials Were Involved in the Approval of a Questionable $700 Million CARES Act National Security Loan

"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
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WordSmith

Quote from: Oniya on December 18, 2021, 03:41:02 AM
Not that this should surprise anyone, but the House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis has released a report on how the previous administration fucked things up.

From the table of contents:

Interesting take on things, though I hate this administration and do quite miss the Trump administration. I think the whole of America wouldn't be under the frightening tactics of the news outlets had Trump remained in office. Though, I will say, I did not agree with Trump's character. I cannot deny that he got a lot of shit done, even concerning the pandemic.

Azy

I had a conversation with a friend recently, and we both agree that the pandemic at least would be better had Trump been re elected.  The way he was patting himself on the back for the vaccine development before the election makes us think if he had won he would have told his followers to take it, then kiss his feet for doing such a wonderful job.  He only turned his cult against it because he lost, and wouldn't get credit for saving the country with his vaccine. 

TheGlyphstone

That's probably the worst of it - how he could have, just by doing a few things differently at the start, both guaranteed his re-election and actually done one good thing for the country in the process. Heck, something as simple as giving out bright red 'Make America Great Again' face-masks to all his cultists would have gutted the pandemic before it took root and also given him massive amounts of free advertising, instead of downplaying the dangers and ignoring the warnings. And it would have fit perfectly into his ego-driven leadership style as well, which makes it all the more plausible as an alternative fact history and that much more frustrating.

WordSmith

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on December 18, 2021, 08:31:44 PM
That's probably the worst of it - how he could have, just by doing a few things differently at the start, both guaranteed his re-election and actually done one good thing for the country in the process. Heck, something as simple as giving out bright red 'Make America Great Again' face-masks to all his cultists would have gutted the pandemic before it took root and also given him massive amounts of free advertising, instead of downplaying the dangers and ignoring the warnings. And it would have fit perfectly into his ego-driven leadership style as well, which makes it all the more plausible as an alternative fact history and that much more frustrating.


Idk, personally I believe it was actual election fraud, in my personal opinion for sure. And while the vaccine hasn't done too much, I believe that he would have probably already shut down a lot of what they were doing since it has been quite ineffective. Also, the administration is fucking up big time trying to impose a mandate that we have to get vaccinated, especially to even work. It's pretty stupid.

WordSmith

I'd venture further to say that the Biden administration is probably the biggest embarrassment this nation has ever witnessed. It's pitiful

Oniya

Quote from: WordSmith on December 18, 2021, 10:35:14 PM

Idk, personally I believe it was actual election fraud, in my personal opinion for sure. And while the vaccine hasn't done too much, I believe that he would have probably already shut down a lot of what they were doing since it has been quite ineffective. Also, the administration is fucking up big time trying to impose a mandate that we have to get vaccinated, especially to even work. It's pretty stupid.

The vaccines have been highly effective in preventing hospitalizations and deaths, according to the actual data.

In addition, an exhaustive review of potential voter fraud in the disputed states found a total of less than 475. 
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! (Oct 31) - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up! Requests closed

WordSmith

#559
Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Quote from: Oniya on December 18, 2021, 10:50:41 PM
The vaccines have been highly effective in preventing hospitalizations and deaths, according to the actual data.

In addition, an exhaustive review of potential voter fraud in the disputed states found a total of less than 475.

Come on, let's be real. Had they been reporting the real numbers in the first place we would've seen that it's far less than what Is projected. There are people who were dying in car accidents and they reported it as covid this is proven. Secondly, that's not true, we also see that the vaccine has killed a lot folks needlessly as well. I'd never put something in my body that was strug up in a matter of months and told me it was all good. Baloney.

Yeah, it was voter fraud. The dumps were in the middle of the night. They quit counting. You can't tell me Biden won states not even Obama won. That's absurdity.  We have a sick man for president all because the democrats didn't want to see trump in, but personally, I believe trump allowed it to happen so we could see the system for what it really is, garbage.

Oreo

#560
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Quote from: WordSmith on December 19, 2021, 05:41:34 AM
Come on, let's be real. Had they been reporting the real numbers in the first place we would've seen that it's far less than what Is projected. There are people who were dying in car accidents and they reported it as covid this is proven. Secondly, that's not true, we also see that the vaccine has killed a lot folks needlessly as well. I'd never put something in my body that was strug up in a matter of months and told me it was all good. Baloney.

Yeah, it was voter fraud. The dumps were in the middle of the night. They quit counting. You can't tell me Biden won states not even Obama won. That's absurdity.  We have a sick man for president all because the democrats didn't want to see trump in, but personally, I believe trump allowed it to happen so we could see the system for what it really is, garbage.
Can you source this please?

She led me to safety in a forest of green, and showed my stale eyes some sights never seen.
She spins magic and moonlight in her meadows and streams, and seeks deep inside me,
and touches my dreams. - Harry Chapin

WordSmith

#561
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Quote from: Oreo on December 19, 2021, 07:19:11 AM
Can you source this please?


Do you think it would be accepted if I did source the sites? One: the media has done a very fine job at brainwashing the majority of those in the corner of the far left. Secondly, do you think that these search engines aren't going to do their best to cover up statistics? They need the pandemic because it generates money. Hence, why every time there is a lull a new scary variant comes along, and boom, terror, fear, and getting money. Is Covid real? Yes. Does it kill people? Absolutely, though most have an underlying condition. Could any of us die from it even if we're healthy? Sure, but chances are unlikely.

And as for the voter fraud, you won't really find any legitimate reports. They have done well in covering up their mess. But when Trump or a real president is back in office, hopefully 2024, it will be exposed. I am not one of those American's that cling to conspiracy theories. I don't think Trump will magically reappear in office. I do believe and hope he is elected in the 2024 race. That shit gets set straight, and that this assault on Democracy from the far left will not only be exposed, but that they will be charged for their treasonous crimes.


Lilias

I may have posted this before (or was it in the previous thread?), but refreshers are good. Here's an at-a-glance guide to good science reporting sources, and those to avoid.

To go in the dark with a light is to know the light.
To know the dark, go dark. Go without sight,
and find that the dark, too, blooms and sings,
and is traveled by dark feet and dark wings.
~Wendell Berry

Double Os <> Double As (updated Dec 12) <> The Hoard <> 50 Tales 2024 <> The Lab <> ELLUIKI

Oreo

Quote from: Lilias on December 19, 2021, 12:05:42 PM
I may have posted this before (or was it in the previous thread?), but refreshers are good. Here's an at-a-glance guide to good science reporting sources, and those to avoid.


That is excellent!

She led me to safety in a forest of green, and showed my stale eyes some sights never seen.
She spins magic and moonlight in her meadows and streams, and seeks deep inside me,
and touches my dreams. - Harry Chapin

Oniya

The thread is being locked temporarily to deal with unsourced material.

In the meantime, Staff would like to refer everyone to the stickies in this forum. 
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! (Oct 31) - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up! Requests closed

Oniya

The thread is now reopened.  As sources were actively declined, the arguments in the preceding posts did not meet the standards for our Politics board, and further commentary on them is not advised.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! (Oct 31) - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up! Requests closed

Beorning

All right, I have a question, then:

The Omicron variant. Any news on whether AstraZeneca has any effect on it? I just read that it doesn't protect against this new variant... and now I'm scared  :-\

Also, can I rant about what's going on regarding the pandemic here in Poland?

Because... our government has mostly given up. Due to political reasons. The government currently has only a tenous majority in the parliament - and that majority includes at least a few MPs who are anti-vaxers. Also, there seems to be a connection between the support for PiS and the anti-vax attitudes (or, at least, the unwillingness to be vaccinated against Covid). So, the government is currently afraid to impose any serious restrictions, as they fear angering a portion of their voters and losing the majority in the parliament.

What this means is that things are going to hell here. About 500 people are dying from Covid *daily*, the hospitals are clogged with Covid patients (meaning, non-Covid patients with serious diseases can't get treatments)... And not even a 60% of the population has been vaccinated at this point. Meanwhile, the government does *nothing*. Let me check:


  • any laws that would put restrictions on un-vaccinated people? Nope, we can't have that. Yes, the government recently introduced a rule that hotel / bar / restaurant owners etc. should check the vaccination certificates... but only if there are more than 30% of clients present. And they gave these business owners no legal basis or actual tools to verify these certificates. So, the business owners are asking: "How are we to enforce these rules, actually???"
  • obligatory vaccinations for adults? Nope, absolutely not. What the government is currently doing is... *planning* to make the vaccinations mandatory for medical professions, teachers and cops. Starting... March. And they are *planning* to do so, nothing's set in stone yet.
  • oh, and those obligatory vaccinations? At least one member of the government tries to stop them from passing: the Minister of Education. Even more, he currently goes after institutions that try to enforce vaccinations on their own. For example, one medical university introduce a local rule forbidding the unvaccinated students from attending practical lessons... and the MoE accused them of discriminating against these students and demanded they drop these restrictions...
  • and here's an icing on the cake: the government did ban concerts, mass parties etc. recently. But... this rule has an exception: the December 31th / January 1st night parties. These are allowed (up to 100 people). Because, apparently, these parties are so important to people that they just cannot be banned. No, we cannot cause discomfort to people, everybody has the right to celebrate the New Year (even at the risk of the infections spreading...)

Overall, the government seems to have made a cold calculation: what would cause a bigger political harm and the risk of losing the power - people dying from Covid or anti-vax anger? They made some polls and they decided that the anti-vaxers would be a bigger problem. So, they do very little regarding the pandemic, not to anger the nutters. And the fact that people keep dying just doesn't matter  >:(

Azy

The frustrating thing is the data keeps changing.  I know the reason it keeps changing is that we're learning as we go.  The latest I have heard is that none of the vaccines fully protect against the Omicron variant.  That being said, vaccinated people will still have a lower risk of severe illness.  I haven't heard anything about the AstraZenica vaccine because the US decided not to allow that one here, but if I remember right it's similar to the J&J, which is not getting good data back. 


Lilias

AstraZeneca is more effective at stimulating T-cells than the mRNA ones, countering its slightly lower effectiveness in antibody generation. I'm not sure what booster the very early vaccinees (who got Pfizer) were given, but the bulk of us who got AstraZeneca as our primary are getting Moderna. Get boostered as soon as you can.
To go in the dark with a light is to know the light.
To know the dark, go dark. Go without sight,
and find that the dark, too, blooms and sings,
and is traveled by dark feet and dark wings.
~Wendell Berry

Double Os <> Double As (updated Dec 12) <> The Hoard <> 50 Tales 2024 <> The Lab <> ELLUIKI

Azy

I got my booster in October, and all 3 shots were Moderna.  From what they were saying on the radio news, the Moderna vaccine seems to be offering the best protection. 

CopperLily

We don't really have enough data on outcomes for Omicron yet to say definitively if there's less effect on severe illness or death for the AstraZenica vaccine, although preliminary reports are that all the vaccines are less effective, and boosters are, in essence, necessary.

We're in for a rough one for a bit folks.

If you've had no shots, please get your first one. If you'd had one, get your second. If you've had both, get boosted.

Regina Minx

Quote from: CopperLily on December 23, 2021, 01:08:49 AM
We don't really have enough data on outcomes for Omicron yet to say definitively if there's less effect on severe illness or death for the AstraZenica vaccine, although preliminary reports are that all the vaccines are less effective, and boosters are, in essence, necessary.

We're in for a rough one for a bit folks.

If you've had no shots, please get your first one. If you'd had one, get your second. If you've had both, get boosted.

I got my Pfizer booster at the same time as my seasonal flu shot. And I'm still masking in public and soft quarantining. I take this newest surge seriously and recommend everyone does likewise.

Oreo

Quote from: Regina Minx on December 23, 2021, 09:50:44 AM
I got my Pfizer booster at the same time as my seasonal flu shot. And I'm still masking in public and soft quarantining. I take this newest surge seriously and recommend everyone does likewise.
Same here, but with Moderna. Feels like it has become a lesson in self preservation.

She led me to safety in a forest of green, and showed my stale eyes some sights never seen.
She spins magic and moonlight in her meadows and streams, and seeks deep inside me,
and touches my dreams. - Harry Chapin

Azy

Quote from: Oreo on December 23, 2021, 09:54:55 AM
Same here, but with Moderna. Feels like it has become a lesson in self preservation.

Many of my neighbors don't care about protecting me, so yeah, I gotta look out for myself.