Trump

[Lilias]

The way the Brits see it: https://worldofwonder.net/quora-nate-white-hilariously-answers-the-query-why-do-british-people-not-like-trump/

[gaggedLouise]

Just to say that I love Lustful Bride's posts over the last few days here, they're some of the best, most biting and most succinct in the entire thread, and I could second almost every word of them. Even better when you consider that some of them were likely written in great haste. I feel your anger, girl. :)

[loki]

Typing from phone on college so linking sources will be hard but a few examples include, holding camps for illegals (and some legals who got screwed) where children were separated from families and a few children died. Restarting the pipeline going through native American lands and not batting an eye at the abuses by police on protesters. Removing air quality controls and weakwning the EPA as well as helping Republicans approve of a bill to allow asbestos back into builsing materials (Free cancer for everybody!)

Oh, you mean the same holding camps and child separation that the last 4 presidents did but no one seemed to have a problem with them until now? It isn't like he put them into place, he just followed the protocols that were already in place and have been in place way before he ever became president. So blaming him for this is unfounded unless you blame all of those who came before him as well.

Also we have the strictest and tightest regulations in the world, while other countries have slim to non on them. Why shouldn't we loosen the grip just lightly so that we could breath and clamp down on the other countries that dump, pollute, burn and make toxic everything around them with no regards to anyone?

When you are the strongest force around you have to accept that you will need to pull nore weight than the others. It sucks but thats how it is. Would you rather we not be there and suddenly have Red blitzkreigs happening and losing our old friends?

To keep what we have we need an ordered stabilized world. And it needs a stable US to remain that way.

We don't get the privilege to sit back and play dumb. Every fight is our fight. It comes with being a superpower. We must guarantee the freedoms of other nations and stop injustice when we can to keep the world from going back to a fascist and totalitarian powder keg.

Ummm NO! It isn't just our responsibility to protect everyone, that responsibility falls on their own shoulders. We weren't helped when we stood up and fought for what we wanted, we stood alone. No one stepped in to try and stop us when we fought against ourselves, no one tried to help us work things out, we did that all on our own. And even now with all the problems with everything going on the fight has come to our own soil, not since Pearl Harbor have we been attacked on our own soil. (with the exception of when we first broke from England) and yet we still stand alone with no one's troops helping protect our borders. It isn't our responsibility to take care of everyone else, we only have the responsibility to take care of ourselves, first and foremost, then we can help others. We can't take care of ourselves right now, so we really shouldn't be helping everyone else under the sun until we right what is wrong with our country first.

It's a noble concept to take care of everyone because you are strong, but while your busy out there doing that, your home is unprotected and vulnerable. Making it a easy target, so that when you are finally done helping everyone else, you will come home to everything you love destroyed. That is what Trump is trying to prevent.

Yes he has. The LGBT community have been screwed over in his administration. Racial tensions are on fire, political tensions are just as bad, he denies basic scientiffic facts which only harm us and fuckdd over federal workers recently. Oh yeah and we all pay more in taxes now ve

HUH? That has nothing to do with being a self sufficient country running off of its own resources, foods and economy. We used to be self sufficient and needed nothing from other countries, but only traded with them to help them out.

And no we don't pay more in taxes, the refunds are less because you took more money home though the year with each paycheck. So you didn't pay as much taxes and therefore you get a smaller refund because you didn't over pay in taxes.

The wall is a waste of resources. Those scavengers are people who mop your floors, pick your food from fields, clean up your garbage. They put up woth a lot and deserve to at least be treated like human beings.

Most of them don't work. Also you complain about all the disease's  coming back and the strain on the health care system, but who do you think is doing that? All the illegals, because legal immigrants get doctor check ups and shots when they come in the correct way.

[Oniya]

Most of them don't work. Also you complain about all the disease's  coming back and the strain on the health care system, but who do you think is doing that? All the illegals, because legal immigrants get doctor check ups and shots when they come in the correct way.

Actually, the diseases are coming back because some people have refused to get their children the vaccinations that their pediatricians recommend.  In the last several years, there have been numerous measles outbreaks tabulated by the CDC here.

You should note that the worst year so far was 2014: 

The U.S. experienced 23 measles outbreaks in 2014, including one large outbreak of 383 cases, occurring primarily among unvaccinated Amish communities in Ohio. Many of the cases in the U.S. in 2014 were associated with cases brought in from the Philippines, which experienced a large measles outbreak.

Second largest was 2018:

The U.S. experienced 17 outbreaks in 2018, including three outbreaks in New York State, New York City, and New Jersey, respectively. Cases in those states occurred primarily among unvaccinated people in Orthodox Jewish communities. These outbreaks were associated with travelers who brought measles back from Israel, where a large outbreak is occurring. Eighty-two people brought measles to the U.S. from other countries in 2018. This is the greatest number of imported cases since measles was eliminated from the U.S. in 2000.

The current set of outbreaks is again linked to people traveling abroad without proper vaccinations, and picking up the diseases in places like Israel and Ukraine, then bringing the disease back and sharing it with all their unvaccinated friends (as people who are anti-vaccination tend to hang out together, school their kids together, that sort of thing).  Looking in-depth at the outbreak information published from the last 10 years (linked on the index page above), the index cases (Patient Zero) have - in an overwhelming majority - been unvaccinated citizens.  Only the 2017 outbreak in Minnesota showed a possible link to immigration, as it was mostly centered around a poorly-vaccinated Somali-American community.  Last I checked, the wall isn't going to stop anyone from Somalia.

[Lustful Bride]

Oh, you mean the same holding camps and child separation that the last 4 presidents did but no one seemed to have a problem with them until now? It isn't like he put them into place, he just followed the protocols that were already in place and have been in place way before he ever became president. So blaming him for this is unfounded unless you blame all of those who came before him as well.

Good point. Trump is just as guilty as Bush and Obama. But he is still guilty. If you stand aside and let things happen when you could change it and make the centers safer to live in  then you are just as guilty as your predecessor.

Also we have the strictest and tightest regulations in the world, while other countries have slim to non on them. Why shouldn't we loosen the grip just lightly so that we could breath and clamp down on the other countries that dump, pollute, burn and make toxic everything around them with no regards to anyone?

Because then it is hypocritical to punish others for what you do. Plus that's not what Trump did. He pulled the US out of the Paris accords and is polluting the US, jeapordizing put peoples own health while helping the earth continue to die.

Ummm NO! It isn't just our responsibility to protect everyone, that responsibility falls on their own shoulders.

Oh yes im sure that attitude would have stopped rhe Nazis and the Japanese Empire. I'm sure the world would have been wonderful if we didnt lend support to Allied nations before we officially entered WW2.

We weren't helped when we stood up and fought for what we wanted, we stood alone.

When 9/11 happened NATO planes flew patrol patterns over the US to help us make sure no more hijacked planes were still flying. When we had our revolution against the British Empire Spain and France gave aid, with France sending ships, supplies, soldiers and officers.

When Katrina destroyed the south the US recieved disaster aid from multiple other nations.

No one stepped in to try and stop us when we fought against ourselves, no one tried to help us work things out, we did that all on our own.

To be fair civil wars are absolute clusterfucks. But I am not sure if any nations helped the Union fight the confederacy.

And even now with all the problems with everything going on the fight has come to our own soil, not since Pearl Harbor have we been attacked on our own soil. (with the exception of when we first broke from England) and yet we still stand alone with no one's troops helping protect our borders.

NATO helped us on 9/11. And we regularly trade and share information with allied nations warning onw another about terror movements and other threats.

The US wasnt the only nation to deploy forces to the middle east to fight terrorist groups. They didnt have to join us in a coalition but they did.

It isn't our responsibility to take care of everyone else, we only have the responsibility to take care of ourselves, first and foremost, then we can help others. We can't take care of ourselves right now, so we really shouldn't be helping everyone else under the sun until we right what is wrong with our country first.

we absolutely can take care of ourselves but our political leaders are too busy passing the blame off to one another or ignoring logic and evidence and facts to so whats right and make compromises or fix things.

It's a noble concept to take care of everyone because you are strong, but while your busy out there doing that, your home is unprotected and vulnerable. Making it a easy target, so that when you are finally done helping everyone else, you will come home to everything you love destroyed. That is what Trump is trying to prevent.

No. He is driving a wedge between us and longtime allies who could have our back when we are down and making us look like the evil american empire our enemies say we are.

HUH? That has nothing to do with being a self sufficient country running off of its own resources, foods and economy. We used to be self sufficient and needed nothing from other countries, but only traded with them to help them out.

Thats not how economics works. We trade resources, completed goods with one another because we want something and can benefit from it. We could live off of only our own resources but the ecpnomy would crash. Plus there are actually resources present elsewhere that are not that present in the US. Namely Rare Earth Elements that are needed for most modern technology.

And no we don't pay more in taxes, the refunds are less because you took more money home though the year with each paycheck. So you didn't pay as much taxes and therefore you get a smaller refund because you didn't over pay in taxes.

I wanna argue but I dont know that much about tax law.

Most of them don't work. Also you complain about all the disease's  coming back and the strain on the health care system, but who do you think is doing that? All the illegals, because legal immigrants get doctor check ups and shots when they come in the correct way.

The healthcare system has been completely fucked for decades now. The illegals didnt do that. Its be more accurate to say illegals did more petty theft and car jacking.

Diseases coming back is partially due to people opting out of vaccines because they think they cause autism, something which even trump himself supported by claiming vaccines need to be more spaced out.

The disease issue is homegrown by idiots, scam artists, and those who dont know how good it is to have vaccines and think they know better than 2 thousand years of science and medicine.

[TheGlyphstone]

Why is it that a lot of other people from other countries are worried about what Trump is doing in his own borders of his own country? Trump is trying to fix the country that he loves, not take over the world. He wants to make his own country safe and self sustaining once again, so that we don't have to rely on anyone for anything.  Why does this bother so many people who are not from the USA?

Why do people get worried when a 500-pound man decides to do a running cannonball into the middle of the pool?

The discussion up-thread gave you a half-dozen links of raw statistics about why the wall will not do what Trump claims it will, in addition to why it's not nearly as big a problem as you/he claim it is and why that money could be far better spent on better solutions to the problem.  So I'm not going to address those points again on why you and Trump are wrong, at least not until you read them and refute them with data/sources of your own.

As far as harming his own people... well he hasn't. He has brought back jobs and is using our own resources so that we don't rely on anyone. Africa, isn't the USA and there for they should take care of themselves, just like they think we should if we were invaded. We have fought for this country to keep what we have, just because someone else doesn't want to fight for their own county doesn't make it our responsibility to go in and do it for them.

You clearly don't work in anything related to the agriculture or farm industry, because they are being hammered by the tariffs. He loves to repeat, as I quoted, the complete and deliberate lie that tariffs generate revenue from China - they don't, they generate revenue out of the pockets of American citizens. We are currently spending more money on farm relief to help the farmers whose profits are being ruined by said tariffs than we are generating from the tariffs.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/trumps-tariffs-are-wreaking-havoc-on-farmers
https://www.agriculture.com/news/business/trump-writes-soybean-farmers-2nd-check-for-tariff-troubles

the Trump administration will spend as much as $11 billion to offset the impact of the trade war on U.S. agriculture.

$11 billion. Twice what he wanted for his oh-so-important wall, coming out of the pockets of American citizens so that he could 'look tough' on foreign trade.

Despite Trump's tough talk and bluster, the steel-consuming manufacturing industries need exemptions and exceptions by the bucketloads to avoid hurting their profit margins, and this is disproportionately impacting smaller companies who are getting their exemption denied on subjective reasons.
https://www.apnews.com/c9e5efc99b4740e6b7d2b19335a9ed1c

Just to say that I love Lustful Bride's posts over the last few days here, they're some of the best, most biting and most succinct in the entire thread, and I could second almost every word of them. Even better when you consider that some of them were likely written in great haste. I feel your anger, girl. :)

I agree Louise. It's a shame Bride is trying to rely on humanitarian and compassion to argue her case, because the right simply lacks empathy for anyone who isn't a US citizen. I've been trying to argue numbers and economics to make the point instead.

[Darkcide]

I must say. Watching Trump and his base cement themselves on the wrong side of history kind of gives me a down low tickle.

[Lustful Bride]

Just to say that I love Lustful Bride's posts over the last few days here, they're some of the best, most biting and most succinct in the entire thread, and I could second almost every word of them. Even better when you consider that some of them were likely written in great haste. I feel your anger, girl. :)

Thank you.

I agree Louise. It's a shame Bride is trying to rely on humanitarian and compassion to argue her case, because the right simply lacks empathy for anyone who isn't a US citizen. I've been trying to argue numbers and economics to make the point instead.

I'm doing so from a humanitarian/logical/loving and honoring the best parts of being an American approach.

A land where all are created equal and endowed with unaliabale rights and the promise to build a more perfect union. Its hard seeing it like this but its worth fighting for.

I must say. Watching Trump and his base cement themselves on the wrong side of history kind of gives me a down low tickle.

It hurts me. I want to believe in the idealized captain america version of the United States. I want it to be true so much. And the last few years it has been like a hangover that wont go away followed by being punched in my pride repeatedly.

But the promise was of a more perfect union. That takes time and effort and its inevitable there will be bumps on the road.

[Skynet]

Why is it that a lot of other people from other countries are worried about what Trump is doing in his own borders of his own country? Trump is trying to fix the country that he loves, not take over the world. He wants to make his own country safe and self sustaining once again, so that we don't have to rely on anyone for anything.  Why does this bother so many people who are not from the USA?

US citizen here. I'd be interested in hearing how the Trump administration made it safer when he defunded programs to help survivors of sex trafficking.

Or how he hired Alexander Acosta onto his team, a man which went around the law to protect a serial rapist.

Or how his egoist war with the FBI is supposed to inspire faith between the executive branch and law enforcement.

Or how the children of immigrant families separated into containment facilities will be safe and sound when their process of hiring is so poor they got a man arrested for possessing child pornography as a guard.

I could go on, but how is any of this making my country, no our country, safer?

[CyrodilicBrandy]

One of the great things about this thread is that it indicates who I might want to ever RP with and who I definitely don't want to RP with.

[Skynet]

Oh, you mean the same holding camps and child separation that the last 4 presidents did but no one seemed to have a problem with them until now? It isn't like he put them into place, he just followed the protocols that were already in place and have been in place way before he ever became president. So blaming him for this is unfounded unless you blame all of those who came before him as well.

Trump is doing it on a scale far, far larger than any previous Administration.

I've seen various Trump supporters and Republicans on E do the 'both sides' fallacy as though that's a moral get out of jail free card. But it's not, and it doesn't paint a good picture for those you support when you go "but the other side did it too!"

And yes, there were leftists and liberals who did have a problem with previous administrations' handling of immigrants.

PS I'd like to second my appreciation for the previous posters' explanations of how the Trump Administration is failing those they claim to support. Lustful Bride and Glyphstone, you're both doing great work!

[Sara Nilsson]

As for the whole Obama separated children too..

https://www.apnews.com/91e9489c7f434099a987bed7defd3f1d

Well it isn't quite the truth.

but I don't expect trump supporters to actually reply to any of the links that have been provided so far. It seems their tactic is "make a claim and go.. aha! got you" get evidence in return proving them wrong and promptly ignore it.

[Lilias]

It's a shame Bride is trying to rely on humanitarian and compassion to argue her case, because the right simply lacks empathy for anyone who isn't a rich, white, straight, cismale, able-bodied, nominally Christian US citizen. I've been trying to argue numbers and economics to make the point instead.

Fixed that for you.

[Oniya]

Honestly, I don't think they have empathy for those people either.  Once there's blood in the water, at any rate.

[SweetSerenade]

As far as harming his own people... well he hasn't. He has brought back jobs and is using our own resources so that we don't rely on anyone. Africa, isn't the USA and there for they should take care of themselves, just like they think we should if we were invaded. We have fought for this country to keep what we have, just because someone else doesn't want to fight for their own county doesn't make it our responsibility to go in and do it for them.

Also, the wall is important. It will keep us safe and unwanted invaders out. That way we can work on the US and fix what we need to fix instead of trying to fight off scavengers who would happily take everything from us in a heart beat.

I'ma bold the first part I'm addressing in your post since I actually directly addressed this issue already - but you apparently ignored it.

That QUANTITY of job he 'created' means shit when the QUALITY of those jobs is not enough for people to sustainably live. You can have A thousand new jobs, but if none of them offer proper wage or hours, it still puts us in a situation where people have to work multiple jobs (with stringent guidelines on availability to boot!) and run the risk of not being able to pay bills. The number of jobs doesn't equal the quality of those jobs.

If you take 1,000 jobs and offer them, but those jobs only offer low wage and low hours, those 1,000 people still have to figure out how they are living day to day. They will have to rely on assistance programs, and often worry about debt and losing their homes and risking their families. Jobs these days want you to have open availability - work both weekdays and weekends and holidays, will hire you on just below full time in an attempt to skirt the laws about healthcare being provided to employees.

I'd rather have 100 jobs open up that were fully scaled to the needs of the people, in the effect that they provided proper income for survival. The more income generated that someone can earn, the more money they can put back out - and the less public assistance they need.


Now to address the italicized part of my highlight on your post -
Please provide a citation of a single point in human history that a wall of this magnitude actually did what it was intended to do, and actually succeeded. I'll be waiting for those citations.

Also, your automatic assuming that the people coming over for better lives are scavengers is exceptionally prejudice and bordering racist. I would give yourself a moment to check your empathy because you are showing a serious lack of it.

[Iniquitous]

And no we don't pay more in taxes, the refunds are less because you took more money home though the year with each paycheck. So you didn't pay as much taxes and therefore you get a smaller refund because you didn't over pay in taxes.

Bullshit.  I did NOT get more take home pay from trump.  My pay stayed the exact same and I am not getting a refund at all.  I BARELY squeaked by in not having to pay anything and that is only because I took a pay decrease when I changed jobs.

Stop sucking trump's lies down like kool aid and open your eyes.

[Humble Scribe]

Y'all know that there are such things as aeroplanes and ships, right?

[TheGlyphstone]

Y'all know that there are such things as aeroplanes and ships, right?

Unless that is another point of support for why the wall is a useless endeavour, its hard to see who 'y'all' is aimed at...

[loki]

Wow, the amount of hate on here against one man that is trying to help his country is amazing. It is easy for many of you that hate Trump and his policies for what ever reasons you choose and gang up on someone who thinks he is correct by demanding proof from them. It would take days for me to find all the stuff I need to refute everything that everyone is demanding of me to do. I don't have time for that, nor is it worth the effort only to be bombarded by multiple people at once all demanding different proof of things that are off on tangents of the original conversation.

All the wall theories that have been posted as to why it won't work, are just that, theories. Why? Because it has never been done before in the USA, so knowing how or why it will fail is an opinion based theory. Until it is built and put into play (a complete wall not the half hearted attempts that are there now) we will not have the facts that are needed to prove or disprove anything. Walls work and there are proof of it in history. Did they work a 100% of the time, no they didn't, but they sure helped more than they hurt.

As for my compassion for others and apparent racist views they are completely unfounded. If this country is so crappy and the president is so bad, then why do people seek a better life here when they have a ton of other options to choose from? Why come here? Why am I racist when I want to protect my own people first and outsiders second? And if they want to be here so badly for a better life, then please explain to me WHY do they do it illegally? Why not do it the right way that way they would never be bothered by anyone because they followed the rules?

I do not wish to see my country in ruin. I think the scariest thing that I heard said was when Russia said that they didn't have to collude with anything to destroy America, that all they had to do is just sit and watch us tear ourselves apart and then walk in and take over. IT happened once before in history, to England and we took over as a super power when they self destructed. Now America is headed down that same path and no one wants to see it. We won't be a super power much longer if things continued like they were before Trump stepped in. But that is my opinions, I don't really care how others want to think, it's their choice. But the hate the few people like me get when we stand up and voice what we see unfolding before is amazing. Maybe that's why most who think like me don't speak up because they get accosted from all side at once and the template of history that is starting to repeat itself is tossed aside. I sadly now bow out of the conversation because I just can't keep up and it feels like a history report instead of a conversation.

[Lustful Bride]

Wow, the amount of hate on here against one man that is trying to help his country is amazing. It is easy for many of you that hate Trump and his policies for what ever reasons you choose and gang up on someone who thinks he is correct by demanding proof from them. It would take days for me to find all the stuff I need to refute everything that everyone is demanding of me to do. I don't have time for that, nor is it worth the effort only to be bombarded by multiple people at once all demanding different proof of things that are off on tangents of the original conversation.

All the wall theories that have been posted as to why it won't work, are just that, theories. Why? Because it has never been done before in the USA, so knowing how or why it will fail is an opinion based theory. Until it is built and put into play (a complete wall not the half hearted attempts that are there now) we will not have the facts that are needed to prove or disprove anything. Walls work and there are proof of it in history. Did they work a 100% of the time, no they didn't, but they sure helped more than they hurt.

As for my compassion for others and apparent racist views they are completely unfounded. If this country is so crappy and the president is so bad, then why do people seek a better life here when they have a ton of other options to choose from? Why come here? Why am I racist when I want to protect my own people first and outsiders second? And if they want to be here so badly for a better life, then please explain to me WHY do they do it illegally? Why not do it the right way that way they would never be bothered by anyone because they followed the rules?

I do not wish to see my country in ruin. I think the scariest thing that I heard said was when Russia said that they didn't have to collude with anything to destroy America, that all they had to do is just sit and watch us tear ourselves apart and then walk in and take over. IT happened once before in history, to England and we took over as a super power when they self destructed. Now America is headed down that same path and no one wants to see it. We won't be a super power much longer if things continued like they were before Trump stepped in. But that is my opinions, I don't really care how others want to think, it's their choice. But the hate the few people like me get when we stand up and voice what we see unfolding before is amazing. Maybe that's why most who think like me don't speak up because they get accosted from all side at once and the template of history that is starting to repeat itself is tossed aside. I sadly now bow out of the conversation because I just can't keep up and it feels like a history report instead of a conversation.

Fine, Goodbye.

[gaggedLouise]

Russia said that they didn't have to collude with anything to destroy America, that all they had to do is just sit and watch us tear ourselves apart and then walk in and take over. It happened once before in history, to England and we took over as a super power when they self destructed. Now America is headed down that same path and no one wants to see it. We won't be a super power much longer if things continued like they were before Trump stepped in.

Wow, so England self-destructed and tore itself apart during WW2? Or are you saying they self-destructed and wasted their country because once the war was winding down, they didn't vote for Churchill to continue as PM, instead they voted in Attlee and his Labour party (socialists!) to give the country a fresh start in the postwar age?

Britain more or less lost the grandeur of its empire due to what happened during WW2, sure. It never rebounded as a superpower, but I think many Brits were fine with leaving some of that pomp behind. It didn't mean that the country went to bits though, or that it became a miserable lace to live in.

As for Trump, I don't think he has any clear idea what the superpower status really should mean for the US - except one thing: he wants the US to b able to dictate to everyone else how things should be, whether it's about a trade deal or about what somebody said about a US brand, or a US politician. He wants what the British in the old days used to call "gunboat diplomacy", and he wants to be able to say whacky things about key US allied countries and their leaders with impunity (his constant stupid bitching with Macron and Merkel, for example) And plainly, his emphasis on running things that way is making the US weaker, not stronger.

[Iniquitous]

Alright.

One.  If you are going to debate in PROC, and make claims, it is on you to provide proof for your claims.  We have to provide proof for our claims.  If you don’t want to provide the proof, then don’t make the claims. Simple enough.

Two. The wall.  A) There are still cases tied up in court from Bush #2 when he tried eminent domain to get fencing put up on property owned by citizens.  You honestly think these landowners are going to just let trumpelstiltskin come through with a wall … barrier... fence?  B.) What about the Rio Grande?  That is part of the border AND it is international waters so mango mussolini cannot do anything to that part of the border without permission from Mexico.

Three.  There is NO mad rush on the border.  Sorry.  That whole lie was manufactured to scare gullible people into giving him what he wants.  Le Gasp!  It hasn’t worked on the vast majority.

Four.  Are you native american?  If not, you are descended from an immigrant.  The point I am making?  They have as much right to decide to come to this country as your ancestors did.  They are coming here for a chance at a better life, at a life without the violence that is in their own countries.  They are coming here because they have been fed the lie about the american dream.

Five. It is NOT illegal to come to the US for asylum.  Matter of fact, you HAVE to get TO the country you want to claim asylum IN. Can’t sit at home in El Salvador and file for asylum in the US.  So guess what? THEY ARE DOING IT THE RIGHT WAY!  What is so fucking hard to understand about that??? It’s like you guys just can’t wrap your mind around something simple. ( https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum )

Six. You do realize that Russia has been interfering right?  They have been deliberately causing rifts between americans.  Just as they have been doing it in other countries.  You do realize that this cretin you seem to worship is in Putin’s pocket right?  His own son has admitted that they get their money from the Russians. ( https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/eric-trump-donald-golf-courses-russia-funding-golf-writer-interview-2014-james-dodson-a7722806.html )  Trump is not a savior.  He is a conman, a grifter.  He is a liar, a thief, and he has bamboozled his base. 

He has not made this country great in any definition of the word.  He is ruining this country and he is doing it at the behest of his master, Putin.  He is hurting the people of this country just so he can make money off the presidency. 

And honestly, I’ll laugh when it all blows up in the faces of his supporters.  Sure, I’ll get hit with the blowback as well, but you better believe I’m gonna laugh in the faces of everyone who tries to defend this cretin.

[SweetSerenade]

Wow, the amount of hate on here against one man that is trying to help his country is amazing. It is easy for many of you that hate Trump and his policies for what ever reasons you choose and gang up on someone who thinks he is correct by demanding proof from them. It would take days for me to find all the stuff I need to refute everything that everyone is demanding of me to do. I don't have time for that, nor is it worth the effort only to be bombarded by multiple people at once all demanding different proof of things that are off on tangents of the original conversation.

All the wall theories that have been posted as to why it won't work, are just that, theories. Why? Because it has never been done before in the USA, so knowing how or why it will fail is an opinion based theory. Until it is built and put into play (a complete wall not the half hearted attempts that are there now) we will not have the facts that are needed to prove or disprove anything. Walls work and there are proof of it in history. Did they work a 100% of the time, no they didn't, but they sure helped more than they hurt.

As for my compassion for others and apparent racist views they are completely unfounded. If this country is so crappy and the president is so bad, then why do people seek a better life here when they have a ton of other options to choose from? Why come here? Why am I racist when I want to protect my own people first and outsiders second? And if they want to be here so badly for a better life, then please explain to me WHY do they do it illegally? Why not do it the right way that way they would never be bothered by anyone because they followed the rules?

I do not wish to see my country in ruin. I think the scariest thing that I heard said was when Russia said that they didn't have to collude with anything to destroy America, that all they had to do is just sit and watch us tear ourselves apart and then walk in and take over. IT happened once before in history, to England and we took over as a super power when they self destructed. Now America is headed down that same path and no one wants to see it. We won't be a super power much longer if things continued like they were before Trump stepped in. But that is my opinions, I don't really care how others want to think, it's their choice. But the hate the few people like me get when we stand up and voice what we see unfolding before is amazing. Maybe that's why most who think like me don't speak up because they get accosted from all side at once and the template of history that is starting to repeat itself is tossed aside. I sadly now bow out of the conversation because I just can't keep up and it feels like a history report instead of a conversation.

Despite the exceptionally long post I see zero citations that back up the claim that the wall will do anything. Please, provide your sources that say a wall of this magnitude has ever accomplised the intended goal.


If you are making claims you need to back them up with evidence.

[TheGlyphstone]

One of the great things about this thread is that it indicates who I might want to ever RP with and who I definitely don't want to RP with.

If you dont mind me asking, why would someones political leanings affect whether or not youd want to RP with them?

[Thorne]

For the 'walls of this magnitude haven't been done' claim, I'd like to point out the Great Wall of China - arguably a master feat of construction, considering - that.. completely failed to keep anybody out. Or in, if I remember correctly.

I'd also like to mention Hadrian's Wall. Also pretty impressive. Not successful as a means of keeping people out, although as a symbol of power, it might have worked just fine.

One might argue that the Berlin Wall succeeded.. but there's proof that it didn't prevent people from crossing, it just made it difficult.

Sure, those weren't in the US. But it's been done. It's been done more than once.

Walls, historically, may be impressive as hell, but the fact of the matter is, they /don't work/ - they can be climbed, dug under, or in our case, circumvented by land or sea - unless they are manned. And quite frankly, I don't see that happening here. There's too much real estate involved.
What was it, five billion just to build it? Okay. Say you /do/ build it. Now you have to man it. Men, equipment, food, water, power ... you are racking up millions in maintenance alone. And it still wouldn't work.

They could put up a 'wall' of solar panels and wind turbines and have it be as useful for keeping people out of the country. Those would at least be more generally useful as power generation, and are about as likely to actually get built.