Trump

[Blythe]

Because he said if it does he's gonna just use executive power and declare a state of emergency and take over the military and make his wall happen. So you know, good news and very bad news.

Ugh. I forgot about that. Or maybe it's just that my brain desperately refuses to let it remain near the front of my awareness because I regard it as so unpleasant. (You're right though. That could very well happen.)

[Hades]

I never watch the State of the Union address, regardless of who the President is at the time.  It's just choreographed political theater, given a shot of steroids to amplify it beyond what is on the nightly news and plays on the 24-hour cycle.  That said, I just hope that the ratings for this SotU was lower than others, just for the fact that I know it would burn Herr Cheeto to know his ratings had fallen.  After all, the only reason he caved to reopening the government in the first place was because Speaker Pelosi had taken away his chance to stand in front of the cameras and soak in the views.

In terms of the wall though, even if he does make a declaration of an emergency, that is going to be challenged in several courts probably before the ink is even dry on his executive order.  And once the courts get involved, the legal battle is going to stretch out beyond what is hopefully his single term in office.  Even if the federal courts allow the order to stand (which should be a no-brainer but we all know judges are not immune to partisanship and twisting precedent to suit their political beliefs), the government will have to use eminent domain for large portions of the proposed path.  And there are still about 60-70 cases pending in court from when George W. Bush tried to get border fencing done back in 2006.

I found an interesting article while researching what limitations there are on the federal government's use of eminent domain and based on what the attorney states there, Trump going through with the declaration would likely also shot the plan in the foot from the very start.

[Lilias]

Someone may have posted this already further upthread, but whatever. The Cato Institute, hardly a hotbed of liberalism, was noping the project from the start: https://www.cato.org/blog/border-wall-impractical-expensive-ineffective-plan

I read somewhere else an estimate that, even if unimpeded construction could start tomorrow, it would still take 5 years to build the wall, if it were finished at all and didn't become just another aborted waste of resources.

[gaggedLouise]

Trump declared flatly (or brazenly) about the wall: "I will get it built!"

Okay, fine. Send him off to El Paso with a snow shovel and some building materials, and he can personally start building it there, funded with his own money. He's the one who really wants it.

Meanwhile, Pelosi can take over in the White House and sort out some things. :)

[Kitteredge]

What's funny, though, is that El Paso already has a wall and barriers. All major populations do. Trump thinks he's a genius because no one has thought of these things, but they have. What he's talking about is a miles and miles long wall through utterly empty territory where very rarely are they crossings. If there are crossings, then the massive expense of a wall and stationing people there is exorbitant compared to any perceived benefits.

[The Lovely Tsaritsa]

He keeps changing though, why wall is needed? First, it’s for keeping out gangs, and rapists. Then, for immigrants, stealing the jobs. Then, from drug pushers. If, he lies, he at least for needs telling, the same lie.

[Iniquitous]

He keeps changing though, why wall is needed? First, it’s for keeping out gangs, and rapists. Then, for immigrants, stealing the jobs. Then, from drug pushers. If, he lies, he at least for needs telling, the same lie.

Because he cannot just flat out say it is to keep the brown people out.

[Oniya]

He keeps changing though, why wall is needed? First, it’s for keeping out gangs, and rapists. Then, for immigrants, stealing the jobs. Then, from drug pushers. If, he lies, he at least for needs telling, the same lie.

I think he keeps changing it up because people stop believing the last lie he told.  Either someone points out (in big, Crayola letters) that his statements are false (M-15 doesn't make crossings in the middle of nowhere, undocumented immigrants have trouble getting jobs because they don't have papers), or he just doesn't see things moving as fast as he wants, so he assumes they've stopped believing the lie.  I've seen kids do this:  they tell a lie, and when you don't respond the way they think you should, it changes.

As someone once said:  It's easier to remember the truth than to keep track of what lies you've told.

[legomaster00156]

Because he cannot just flat out say it is to keep the brown people out.

Yes, he could. Everyone knows it already. Those who want the wall support that. Everyone else rejects it. Bottom line, he wouldn't be saying anything that everyone isn't already hearing, he would just be peeling away the thin veneer of almost-decency in front of it.

[Deamonbane]

Trump Makes ‘Joke’ About Native American Genocide To Insult Elizabeth Warren

https://wokesloth.com/trump-joke-native-american-genocide-elizabeth-warren/lindseyweedston/?utm_content=bufferee789&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=thegoodlordabove&utm_campaign=bloomjoy&fbclid=IwAR0k_tzPwjCY8EPeHG7BdC8DtjS0PLRF8bQksV_FmHxISR4sY5lz48QSdOE

Holy shit.

[Sofia Grace]

Trump Makes ‘Joke’ About Native American Genocide To Insult Elizabeth Warren

https://wokesloth.com/trump-joke-native-american-genocide-elizabeth-warren/lindseyweedston/?utm_content=bufferee789&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=thegoodlordabove&utm_campaign=bloomjoy&fbclid=IwAR0k_tzPwjCY8EPeHG7BdC8DtjS0PLRF8bQksV_FmHxISR4sY5lz48QSdOE

Holy shit.

https://media.giphy.com/media/YEOhCFRF9NFba/giphy.gif

The shit he comes up with is so unnecessary, man.  There was no reason for that.  I'd ask whether or not he has anything better to do, but I think by now we've come to understand that he apparently does not. 

[Skynet]

Trump Makes ‘Joke’ About Native American Genocide To Insult Elizabeth Warren

https://wokesloth.com/trump-joke-native-american-genocide-elizabeth-warren/lindseyweedston/?utm_content=bufferee789&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=thegoodlordabove&utm_campaign=bloomjoy&fbclid=IwAR0k_tzPwjCY8EPeHG7BdC8DtjS0PLRF8bQksV_FmHxISR4sY5lz48QSdOE

Holy shit.

Cannot see due to Adblocker (which I won't take down for sites I do not know). What is the context/paraphrase?

[Skynet]

PS Nevermind, found on other sources his Twitter quote:

Today Elizabeth Warren, sometimes referred to by me as Pocahontas, joined the race for President. Will she run as our first Native American presidential candidate, or has she decided that after 32 years, this is not playing so well anymore? See you on the campaign TRAIL, Liz!

Possible reference to the Trail of Tears, done by President Andrew Jackson who Trump is a big fan of.

[Deamonbane]

Oh, yeah, sorry about that.

[Various]

What? Trump behaving like a racist jackass toward a population his hillbilly supporters don't care about or actively despise. I'm shocked.

[Various]

Also, Brit Hume's defense of his Orange Messiah was actually brilliant. Basically Trump is too ignorant of basic American history to have intended TRAIL in all caps to be a reference to the trail of tears. This doesn't hold up given the lionization of Jackson that Trump displays (I seem to recall him mentioning a Jackson biography when some reporter basically asked which picture book he was having his staff give him the Cliff's Notes of).

[Kitteredge]

Also, Brit Hume's defense of his Orange Messiah was actually brilliant. Basically Trump is too ignorant of basic American history to have intended TRAIL in all caps to be a reference to the trail of tears. This doesn't hold up given the lionization of Jackson that Trump displays (I seem to recall him mentioning a Jackson biography when some reporter basically asked which picture book he was having his staff give him the Cliff's Notes of).

It reminded me of when Trump said something demeaning about John Lewis, the Civil Rights leader, and the debate was whether he knew who John Lewis was, or if he was just another black guy. I still don't think Trump knows much about these historical things at all. He just doesn't care. Notes about foreign engagements have to be extremely short and mention him by name constantly in order to maintain his attention. I see Andrew Jackson as a figure he likes in a shallow way and, hey, the man is on the $20 bill! Nothing better than that!

That said, the racism and control of others do appeal to Trump. And he acts as a prism of those around him, people like Stephen Miller, who are in his ear constantly. I just question the depth at which he gives a shit. To me Hume is sort of right, but not in an exonerating way. It's an indictment of the people Trump places around himself, which is an indictment of his party that allows this to happen, as much as it is an indictment of the man himself.

[loki]

He keeps changing though, why wall is needed? First, it’s for keeping out gangs, and rapists. Then, for immigrants, stealing the jobs. Then, from drug pushers. If, he lies, he at least for needs telling, the same lie.

Did you ever think that it is all of them and more? The wall isn't needed for just one thing. It will stop a list of things that have been problems in the US for a while now. Everyone wants change, but no one is willing to do anything but sit and debate over what is and isn't right, while all the bad stuff still keeps going on. That is until Trump came along.

Most may not like him or even how he does get things done. But at least he is getting things done. IT might not be the PC way or any other way to try and do it without hurting someone's feelings. In times that call for action, debate is a mute point, action is needed rather it offends or upsets people. We have debated this boarder protection for years and look what the end results are... we got nothing done and have changed nothing.

Walls work, rather people like them or not, they work. Besides, for the people who say that it isn't going to work, well since it has never been done before, then why not let it happen?  I mean, if you are so sure it won't work, then let it fail after it has been built and then you can say "I told you so". The government has wasted money on far more frivolous stuff than a simple wall, right? What could possibility go wrong if the wall is built and you are right? Then it can just be taken down.... but if your wrong.... will you admit it or just ignore it like you never said it shouldn't or wouldn't help?

[Lustful Bride]

Did you ever think that it is all of them and more? The wall isn't needed for just one thing. It will stop a list of things that have been problems in the US for a while now. Everyone wants change, but no one is willing to do anything but sit and debate over what is and isn't right, while all the bad stuff still keeps going on. That is until Trump came along.

Oh really? A wall will fix the homeless crisis? A wall will fix people rejecting vaccines and other long proven facts? A wall will fix the broken healthcare system? A wall will fix how horribly we abandon our veterans? A wall will stop every single drug dealer and human trafficker?

Will a wall help Puerto Rico while it is still suffering from the damages of the hurricane? Will a wall handle climate change that is literally getting worse with each year. Will it restart the space program?

Does it have lasers and a forcefield to keep people from climbing it or swimming around it?

Most may not like him or even how he does get things done.

Because has turned our country into a laughing stock, weakened our global political strength while giving Russia and China perfect openings to expand and tossed centuries of political good will into the crapper. Has violated the rights of civilians and soldiers on bullshit charges that they might be illegal and regularly acts like a spastic clown on social media with all the finesse of a teenager just being allowed to use the internet.

But at least he is getting things done.

By shutting down the government and costing the United States so much money. By ruining outlr alliances with other nations that took decades to foster and ruining centuries worth of goodwill in a single term.

IT might not be the PC way or any other way to try and do it without hurting someone's feelings.

Which suceedes in making him look incompwtent and unfit for the position.

In times that call for action, debate is a mute point, action is needed rather it offends or upsets people.

Yes. It calls for rational action. Not tokenism and campaign marks made up by surrounding himself with yes men of the highest caliber.

We have debated this boarder protection for years and look what the end results are... we got nothing done and have changed nothing.

while those people you wanna kick out do all the jobs you dont want to do and all the jobs Americans want to do are sent to china and mechanized to make CEOs richer and you poorer.

Walls work, rather people like them or not, they work.

Yeah the Berlin wall and the great wall of china worked....oh wait people bypassed those. But you are right. They work at using up valuable resources and money that could be used for infrastructure, and keeping people in as much as they keep them out.

Besides, for the people who say that it isn't going to work, well since it has never been done before, then why not let it happen?

because it is taking peoples homes, splitting up native burial sites, stealing ranches from diaabled veterans, and might endanger or render a few species extinct in a time when the earth has already been skullfucked by eons of misuse.

I mean, if you are so sure it won't work, then let it fail after it has been built and then you can say "I told you so". The government has wasted money on far more frivolous stuff than a simple wall, right?

yeah andnim fucking pissed about that. I dont want them wasting my money that could go to veterans, taking care of our people, balancing the economy and dealing with the host of other issues weakening this country.

What could possibility go wrong if the wall is built and you are right? Then it can just be taken down.... but if your wrong.... will you admit it or just ignore it like you never said it shouldn't or wouldn't help?

A lot could go wrong and a lot is going wrong now. The wall will be a waste and wont stop the real issues.

Do you have any idea how big the wall would have to be? How much would have to go into maintaining and patrolling it? How many areas are deadzones and not even cartel members want to cross it. How much money and manpower would be wasted on it that could be used elsewhere?

All you are getting is a wall and being left with debt and wasted resources by a snake oil salesmen with a Russian master playing his flute.

I love this country and I will be God Damned if I will see it ruined by foreign intervention, homegrown racists, uninformed puppets, and a businessman who cant resist going on a twitter rant every single day.

[TheGlyphstone]

Trump's vaunted border wall is nothing more than a concrete steel 1,700-km 200-mile 30-foot tall slatted monument to his penis. This is evident by the way he's repeatedly changed his justifications for needing it, and how those justifications repeatedly run into conflict with the actual facts and statistics surrounding smuggling and immigration.

1) The wall will stop the drugs and smuggling? The DEA's own data shows 80-90% of attempted drug smuggling is done through legal ports of entry.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/16/fact-check-mike-pence-donald-trump-drugs-crossing-southern-border-wall/2591279002/
https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2018-07/DIR-040-17_2017-NDTA.pdf

2) The wall will stop illegal immigrants? The CBP's own data says border-crossing apprehensions are the lowest they've been in almost 40 years. more than 60% of illegal residents enter on perfectly legal visas and overstay their limits.
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/10/683662691/where-does-illegal-immigration-mostly-occur-heres-what-the-data-tell-us

3) The wall will keep out criminals and gang members? MS-13 is his favorite boogeyman, and they do most of their recruiting internally. MS-13 arrests at the border were up a grand, whopping total of...60 people in the last year.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/texas/articles/2018-04-27/ap-fact-check-ms-13-gang-arrests-at-border-are-up-this-year

4) The wall will keep out terrorists? DHS and the State Department both explicitly refute the claims of mass terrorist arrests along the border.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fact-check-state-department-credible-evidence-terrorists-entering/story?id=60209995

It's a smokescreen and a hot-button issue that Trump is selling to his base with all the skill and animal cunning he's developed as a businessman. In terms of actual effectiveness, I'd get more border security from setting 5 billion dollars on fire and hoping the smoke blinds smugglers into tripping and breaking their necks. Walls were a great idea...back when cannons were the pinnacle of military technology. Today it's nothing more than a minor impediment.

[TheGlyphstone]

On the more general claim that Trump 'gets things done'...I wholeheartedly agree.

-He refutes decades-long military and diplomatic alliances while cozying up to authoritarian and totalitarian rulers.
-He abandons the war against ISIS at a moment so crucial his Secretary of Defense resigns in protest rather than carry out said orders, and Mitch McConnell himself leads the GOP in a declaration censuring the decision.
-He withdraws us from the Paris Climate Agreements, a treaty signed or ratified by every single sovereign nation in the world except for the Vatican, right as credible environmental scientists agree we are reaching a crucial point in needing to start arresting human-centric climate change.
-He slashes taxes to billionaires and corporations, while removing crucial deductions that force a larger tax burder onto lower-middle class citizens, the exact people whose trust he abused to get elected in the first place.
-He engages in pointless, self-destructive trade wars with major trading partners out of what can only be deliberate ignorance at this point...it's simply not possible that none of his advisors have tried to explain to Trump that Tariffs Do Not Generate Foreign Revenue. American manufacturing and agriculture in particular suffered from the tariffs, again two sectors of the populace who flocked to him in hopes he would help them instead of screw them over.
-He's made us a diplomatic laughingstock, wrecking foreign credibility. The United Nations broke out into spontaneous laughter when he tried to subject them to a campaign-rally stump speech, men and women who train for years in showing no emotions other than intentional ones.
-He's repeatedly appointed people to key Cabinet positions who either have blatant conflicts of interest opposed to the explicit missions of those Cabinet departments (Pruitt and DeVos), are completely wasted in their token posts (Carson), or just have no idea what they're doing (Perry).

He definitely gets things done. They're just all terrible things that directly hurt the people he's nominally supposed to lead and protect.

And that's aside from the 'soft' consequences of his presidency, like the massive upsurge in racism and hate crimes, the transition of the general political culture into one of open loathing and hostility towards opponents, and his embarrassingly consistent habit of lying about almost everything to levels a five-year-old with access to Google can effectively dispute.

[Dhi]

I'm finding out now that my 2018 taxes went up $5k, I now owe money I can't afford. I have never owed money before.

If this is anywhere near as widespread as it sounds, it will have been the misstep that kills Trump's Republican party.

[RedEve]

Supposedly it's pretty widespread. And yeah, that always seemed like a strategy which would backfire relatively quickly.

[loki]

Oh really? A wall will fix the homeless crisis? A wall will fix people rejecting vaccines and other long proven facts? A wall will fix the broken healthcare system? A wall will fix how horribly we abandon our veterans? A wall will stop every single drug dealer and human trafficker?

Will a wall help Puerto Rico while it is still suffering from the damages of the hurricane? Will a wall handle climate change that is literally getting worse with each year. Will it restart the space program?

Does it have lasers and a forcefield to keep people from climbing it or swimming around it?

What you have named are problems inside the US already and other problems that care coming into the US. Mixing the two is and can be a point of confusion. The wall isn't the one beat all fix, but will slow down or even partially stop the flow of trouble that comes across our borders. Climbing the metal barrier that is being erected now, is just about impossible, but that is what the border patrol is there for, to catch people trying to do that. As for the water, that's what the coast guard is for.

Let me ask you this, if you had flood waters coming into your house through an open door, would you close that door and erect a barrier of sand bags to help stop the water that is coming into your house? Or would you just open a window, grab a bucket and start bailing water out the window in hopes of stopping or getting ahead of the water? Common scene tells me what most people would do, even if the barrier and closed door doesn't stop the water completely, it will lessen the flow greatly compared to an open door. Leaving you some time to put other plans into place that would stop and fix the problems.

because it is taking peoples homes, splitting up native burial sites, stealing ranches from diaabled veterans, and might endanger or render a few species extinct in a time when the earth has already been skullfucked by eons of misuse.

Where are you getting your information on that? Most homes aren't on the borders, property is and the little bit of  land that the government would need to put up the metal slatted wall that is going up now is kinda like the sidewalk that runs across the front of your property between you and the street. It's government domain you know, so how would it be any different than that? They aren't stealing anything.

As far as animal extinction goes, if the animal was already in jeopardy then moving and relocating said creature should be done. It isn't like they wouldn't know where they were, they track and watch endangered animals to better protect them, so moving them won't kill them but help them.

A lot could go wrong and a lot is going wrong now. The wall will be a waste and wont stop the real issues.

Do you have any idea how big the wall would have to be? How much would have to go into maintaining and patrolling it? How many areas are deadzones and not even cartel members want to cross it. How much money and manpower would be wasted on it that could be used elsewhere?

On the contrary, it will help the real issues, more so than the way you are proposing it be done. You suggest we turn all that "wasted"money to other places, yet we would have to waste even more money on still trying to stop all the bad coming across the borders. Like you said, there are dead zones that won't have to be guarded by our patrols if there is a barrier erected there. If they didn't want to cross it to begin with, then placing a wall there would only give them that much more of a reason to not cross when the border patrols tighten down the places that they do cross in.

The wall height and everything is already determined and is being erected and used right now in hot spots. It comes already put together and ready to go into the ground. So all the , when, what, how and what will it look like are already answered and being used.  Once something like that is already up and in place, you free up the man power that it takes to hold the border and can use it and the now freed up people and resources in other places that are having problems.

Also you mentioned how much money it would take to maintain it and patrol it, well it would be a lot less than what it would take and is taking to patrol the same area with more people without the wall. We already know those numbers and they are going to go up because we also know that  it isn't working very well and more border patrols are needed to secure us.

[Kitteredge]

Loki, illegal border crossings are at the lowest level in years. There simply is no crisis, much less a flood. In high population areas, such as El Paso, there are already barriers/walls. There is no sense in building a wall over thousands of miles of enough desert. It's far too expensive and provides absolutely no benefits, especially as it could cost billions and billions to even maintain. I'm certainly not going to pay for it.

Texas is a red state. Do you know how many of their state representatives support a wall? None. Not a single one, not even Republicans. They know it's a massive fraud.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/01/11/us/politics/trump-border-crisis-reality.html

I fear you're buying what is essentially a massive lie.