You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
April 24, 2018, 11:40:07 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

This is only a Test!
Click at your own risk.

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Trump Impeachment  (Read 256 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline LostInTheMistTopic starter

Trump Impeachment
« on: April 21, 2018, 04:48:30 AM »
I'm against it. I'll explain why momentarily. I do want to give you some background on me. I have been volunteering on political campaigns since I was 16 years old. I worked for Kerry in 2004 (when I was 16), Obama (I was one of his first volunteers in my state, and I convinced my parents to vote for him, in addition to speaking to hundreds of others) in 2008 and 2012, and first Sanders, then Clinton in 2016. In the intervening years, while attending college where I majored in Political Science, I worked as an intern in the offices of a local Senator and a Local House Representative, even renting a house (at my own expense) and staying after the school year was over in 2010 to finish the legislative session. I'm a leftist Democrat, nearly a socialist, but my political beliefs line up most with the Democratic platform, since Socialism isn't likely to win any time soon.

I do not think Donald Trump should be impeached. Yes, I think he colluded with the Russians in the 2016 election. Yes, I think he is guilty of obstruction of justice, and more importantly, guilty of high treason, which in the United States, is still punishable by death. And yes, I do believe he deserves the death penalty. He is the first President, including Bush, where I would stand aside, rather than take a bullet for him. But I do not believe it would be a good move to impeach him. He has proven himself to be so incompetent in governance that he can't get even the basics of his (evil) plans for the United States passed, even with control of both houses of congress.

Mike Pence is just as evil (or perhaps more evil) than Trump, and much more competent. He might be able to unite the Republican Party. Trump will NEVER be able to do that. And, in the 2018 midterms, Republicans face an unenviable choice. Stand with Trump and be flayed alive by the 60% who disapprove of Trump, or stand against Trump, and have Trump supporters blindly beat you to death with their flat earth globes because the President told them to. Trump is disastrous to his party, to the national brand of Republicans, and when he is beaten in crushing fashion by whoever in 2020 (I'm thinking Elizabeth Warren, DRAFT WARREN!) it will be a body blow to the Republican party. Maybe even the death blow I have been longing for since 2002.

And then we can put Ex-President Trump to death for treason.

Offline Deamonbane

  • “If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!” ~ Demon Killer
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: Taking very enthusiastic walks through the woods.
  • Gender: Male
  • Oh, I don't get angry. I have people for that.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2018, 06:50:15 AM »
Mike Pence is just as evil (or perhaps more evil) than Trump, and much more competent. He might be able to unite the Republican Party. Trump will NEVER be able to do that. And, in the 2018 midterms, Republicans face an unenviable choice. Stand with Trump and be flayed alive by the 60% who disapprove of Trump, or stand against Trump, and have Trump supporters blindly beat you to death with their flat earth globes because the President told them to. Trump is disastrous to his party, to the national brand of Republicans, and when he is beaten in crushing fashion by whoever in 2020 (I'm thinking Elizabeth Warren, DRAFT WARREN!) it will be a body blow to the Republican party. Maybe even the death blow I have been longing for since 2002.
On this we can agree. Trump, for all his pandering, is still fairly incompetent in applying that pandering to law. There have been actions taken, yes, but at the moment, his power has been for the most part limited due to his lack of understanding of the political scheme by managing to alienate members of both parties, as well as the various criminal investigations. Trump is bad, but I think we can agree that Pence is far, far worse. Even the democrats are quieting talk of Trump's impeachment while quietly (hopefully) preparing a solid campaign for 2020.

For now. We'll have to see what the 'Mango Mussolini' (thanks for that nickname Ini, and I'm keeping it :P ) pulls out of his insane bag of tricks.

Online gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer | Dasha's skirted secretary
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2018, 07:06:23 AM »
I think the guy needs to be impeached and then tried in civilian courts for his serious crimes. The thought of atually seeing Trump hanged one day (yes, a bit fancifully) is a sort of sweet idea, but I'll leave the deliberations about that to the Americans. :) For me as a European the important thing is to get him out of office under legal forms, and to see as much as possible of his legistaltion getting blocked, delayed, overruled in court or filibustered.

Also, I move that if he is convicted of having played foul against US democracy and is sent to a long jail term then his fortune should be confiscated. :D

Online Regina Minx

Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2018, 12:37:55 PM »
For the sake of discussion, I'm going to grant your premise, that Trump not only colluded with the Russians to win the presidency but broke numerous laws, up to and including treason, since becoming president.

But your argument is that we shouldn't make use of either the political process (impeachment) or judicial process (indictment) to handle the problem now because, and to paraphrase you, the guy that would replace him would be as bad or worse?

That is a line of argument I've never heard, for example, when discussing whether or not to prosecute a mob boss (which is language along the lines of what Comey has used to describe Trump's behavior and attitude). It's also fundamentally an argument that views justice as subordinate to achieving your own political ends, since you want Trump lassoed to the neck of the Republican party like an albatross to bring them down with, rather than for the Constitutional and judicial remedies for dealing with a treasonous president.

I'm also not reading in your initial post that you believe Pence to be guilty of the same crimes as Trump. You may well believe that, but if so you didn't say that. So, again, I'm seeing in you a desire to put partisan political ends ahead of any notion of justice or the rule of law under the Constitution. That's...not something I can support.

Offline Oniya

Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2018, 01:10:18 PM »
What a lot of people forget is that impeachment does not remove the President from office.  Impeachment is merely the bringing of charges by Congress against a federal official, analogous to an indictment in a criminal court.  The Senate hearings afterward correspond to the jury trial.  There have been two Presidential impeachments in American history, and neither of the impeached Presidents left office.
  • President Andrew Johnson was impeached for violating the Tenure of Office act.  He was successfully impeached by the House of Representatives, but acquitted by the Senate.
  • President Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice.  Again, successfully impeached by the House, acquitted by the Senate.
  • The impeachment process was never completed for President Richard Nixon - he resigned before the House voted to impeach (although it was widely believed that the vote would have carried, and that the Senate would convict.)

That said, impeachment does leave a stain on that particular President, and would probably prevent a bid for re-election.

Offline persephone325

  • E's Resident Bucky Barnes/Winter Soldier Addict | Lady White Wolf | Bucky Bait/Buckygirl | Howling's Dagger | Queen of the Underworld | A sentient pile of kittens | Always blame Bucky | 1/3 of Team SAM
  • Mentor
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Location: Following the White Wolf...
  • Gender: Female
  • Ready to comply...
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2018, 03:04:57 PM »
That said, impeachment does leave a stain on that particular President, and would probably prevent a bid for re-election.

I'm all for anything that prevents him from running in 2020.

Offline Deamonbane

  • “If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!” ~ Demon Killer
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: Taking very enthusiastic walks through the woods.
  • Gender: Male
  • Oh, I don't get angry. I have people for that.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2018, 05:33:49 PM »
But your argument is that we shouldn't make use of either the political process (impeachment) or judicial process (indictment) to handle the problem now because, and to paraphrase you, the guy that would replace him would be as bad or worse?
I don't expect anyone here to follow Brazilian politics, but a very similar situation in which an incompetent president was impeached to give way to one that is actively and indeed quite skillfully tearing the country apart is playing out there. If the political machine decides that Trump needs to go by way of Impeachment and criminal indictment, there won't be any tears or protests from me but Pence taking over as President should give any here of a liberal leaning some very serious pause.

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2018, 08:12:14 PM »
What about the statement impeachment makes.  This is unacceptable.

I do not wish for the death of the Republican party.  I would like to see them lurch back toward the middle.  The Tea Party pulled this country far too right, but America is not meant to be a one party country.  We need dissent, we just need reasonable dissent.

Online gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer | Dasha's skirted secretary
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2018, 10:45:00 PM »
I don't expect anyone here to follow Brazilian politics, but a very similar situation in which an incompetent president was impeached to give way to one that is actively and indeed quite skillfully tearing the country apart is playing out there. If the political machine decides that Trump needs to go by way of Impeachment and criminal indictment, there won't be any tears or protests from me but Pence taking over as President should give any here of a liberal leaning some very serious pause.

Haven't they even had *two* presidents getting impeached and taken out of office lately: Dilma Rousseff and Lula da Silva?

Online gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer | Dasha's skirted secretary
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2018, 10:49:01 PM »
What about the statement impeachment makes.  This is unacceptable.

I do not wish for the death of the Republican party.  I would like to see them lurch back toward the middle.  The Tea Party pulled this country far too right, but America is not meant to be a one party country.  We need dissent, we just need reasonable dissent.

The Tea Party and some of Trump's base really should break out and form their own party, but I guess that won't be happening until at least 2020, since they have half hijacked the weight of the Republican party, who are now "in control".

Offline Deamonbane

  • “If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!” ~ Demon Killer
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: Taking very enthusiastic walks through the woods.
  • Gender: Male
  • Oh, I don't get angry. I have people for that.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2018, 11:12:31 PM »
Haven't they even had *two* presidents getting impeached and taken out of office lately: Dilma Rousseff and Lula da Silva?
Lula served both terms, and is now being tossed in jail. You haven't seen witchhunt if you haven't seen what they've been trying to charge him with.

Dilma was impeached.

Online Lustful Bride

Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2018, 09:37:30 AM »
I don't expect anyone here to follow Brazilian politics, but a very similar situation in which an incompetent president was impeached to give way to one that is actively and indeed quite skillfully tearing the country apart is playing out there. If the political machine decides that Trump needs to go by way of Impeachment and criminal indictment, there won't be any tears or protests from me but Pence taking over as President should give any here of a liberal leaning some very serious pause.

+1.

Much as he sucks, better the devil we know than the one we don't. We just have to ride out the rest of this term and fight hard to get a president who isn't a Russian plant, or a complete raging sociopath.

Online Regina Minx

Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2018, 10:06:54 AM »
Much as he sucks, better the devil we know than the one we don't. We just have to ride out the rest of this term and fight hard to get a president who isn't a Russian plant, or a complete raging sociopath.

This same logic suggests that Congress and the Special Prosecutor of the 70s shouldn't have pushed for Nixon's indictment/impeachment/removal from office. Yeah he may have been using political operatives to bug the psychiatric offices of his opponents and stole files from the DNC....but at least we KNOW what a scumbag he is. I mean that guy Ford...he might be just as bad if not worse!

Online gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer | Dasha's skirted secretary
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2018, 12:57:08 PM »
Lula served both terms, and is now being tossed in jail. You haven't seen witchhunt if you haven't seen what they've been trying to charge him with.

Dilma was impeached.

You mean Lula hasn't acually seen any impeachment hearings but was still removed?  ???

Online Regina Minx

Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2018, 01:02:21 PM »
You mean Lula hasn't acually seen any impeachment hearings but was still removed?  ???

No? Brazil's president serves a four-year term of office and can be re-elected to a single consecutive term. Da Silva served 8 years, from January of 2003 to January of 2011.



Wikipedia seems to indicate that his indictment and trial all happened post-presidency.

Online gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer | Dasha's skirted secretary
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2018, 01:56:27 PM »
No? Brazil's president serves a four-year term of office and can be re-elected to a single consecutive term. Da Silva served 8 years, from January of 2003 to January of 2011.



Wikipedia seems to indicate that his indictment and trial all happened post-presidency.

Ah okay, thanks! Lula and Dilma Rousseff have both been in my news loop a bit, but I didn't know Lula had served as far back as that. For some reason I thought he had come into office after Rousseff was impeached in 2014.

Online gaggedLouise

  • Quim Queen | Collaborative juicy writer | Dasha's skirted secretary
  • Champion
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Location: Scandinavia
  • Gender: Female
  • Bound, gagged and unarmed but still dangerous.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2018, 01:57:24 PM »
Or rather, she was impeached in 2016. :)

Offline Deamonbane

  • “If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!” ~ Demon Killer
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: Taking very enthusiastic walks through the woods.
  • Gender: Male
  • Oh, I don't get angry. I have people for that.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Trump Impeachment
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2018, 02:47:27 PM »