Trump

Started by Vekseid, February 01, 2017, 02:59:22 AM

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Skynet

Quote from: Haibane on January 18, 2021, 12:58:26 PM
FBI investigates whether stolen Pelosi laptop was offered for sale to Russia.

I am struggling to work out what is going through the mind of a right-wing rioter who would sell this stolen item to people much further to the left than the person they stole it from. How does that fit any kind of political ideology? Or maybe it just fits the profile of a greedy opportunist.

The Putin Administration and his circles are not Communists. While he mourns the fall of the Soviet Union, it's not due to any big belief in creating a classless utopia so much as it meant the fall of Russia as a global superpower on par with America.

Indeed, Putin's funding of various far-right nationalist parties to sow division throughout the West, as well as having a former adviser Aleksandr Dugin being an admitted fascist shows that he'd much rather have a Russian Empire with ethnonationalist paint than a socialist one.

Kitteredge

Well said. Russia has not been communist or even communist-adjacent for thirty years. They are a right-wing, crony capitalist, klepto-state ruled by oligarchs.

Remiel

Quote from: gaggedLouise on January 14, 2021, 10:02:48 AM
Sources close to Trump are now saying he has ordered a stop to wage payments to Rudy Giuliani. The idea seems to be that "Rudy and his buddies didn't work hard enough to get the election turned around for me, so therefore they are useless and don't deserve any payments". Wonder what Giuliani will be thinking of getting treated as a loser by his boss and long-time friend... :P

Quote from: legomaster00156 on January 18, 2021, 10:46:30 AM
Rudy Giuliani now says he won’t on the Trump impeachment defense team. “Because I gave an earlier speech [at the January 6 Trump rally], I am a witness and therefore unable to participate in court or Senate chamber,” he tells me.

Coincidence?!? I think not!

Deamonbane

Quote from: Kitteredge on January 18, 2021, 03:31:43 PM
Well said. Russia has not been communist or even communist-adjacent for thirty years. They are a right-wing, crony capitalist, klepto-state ruled by oligarchs.
I always thought that Stalin's USSR was almost closer to a theocracy than actual communism.
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Skynet

Actual communism as defined by Marx was a post-scarcity world where the concept of government, money, and social divisions were rendered non-existent. Likely through a worldwide revolution.

The Soviet Union (and other Eastern Bloc) countries' policies were that their nation wasn't Communism, but rather a socialist country in the transition period evolving towards Communism. Sort of like how Christians acknowledge that they're dirty rotten sinners but are trying to do better. Ironically it was used by Communists working for said regimes to explain away inconsistences in their societies, like hierarchical workspaces. Aka they're 'still evolving towards Communism.'

I recall reading this explanation on /r/askhistorians, although I cannot recall the thread offhand.

Haibane

This all pre-supposes that the person suspected of trying to sell the laptop to Russia was cognizant of all that. That was one of the points in my mind. She may not have been. Russia=Commies has been a basic concept to millions of Americans since the 1940s at least and probably prior. The fact Russia is no longer communist may be about as relevant to these people's thinking as the acceptance that NASA landed men on the moon.

Haibane

Political and economic experts summarize Trump's legacy and what stood out in his term:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55640427

US citizens living in the UK viewing the last four years from the other side of the Atlantic:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-55704181

Melania's jacket and nine other defining images 2016-2020:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55708411

stormwyrm

Now it seems that freaking Mitch McConnell is saying this: "The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the president and other powerful people."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/19/trump-provoked-capitol-riot-mitch-mcconnell-says.html
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TheGlyphstone

Mitch has nothing to fear from Trump or his mob anymore, his next re-election will be in 6 years if he decides to run again at all at age 84.

Haibane

McConnell is going to vote to impeach. I'd put money on it.

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Haibane on January 19, 2021, 01:29:18 PM
McConnell is going to vote to impeach. I'd put money on it.

I’d say he’d be likely to not..but let others vote how they will. He’s still looking to have his post as majority lead in 2 years.

Regina Minx

In honor of Trump's last full day in office, and given my prediction that he will make excessive and egregious use of the power, I thought I would review the President's pardon power.

Article 2, Section 2 of the Constitution gives the President the power to "grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment." This is part of the checks and balances system on the Federal government's tripartite nature in the United States. If the court is excessive or cruel, the President can check their instincts. It is also for this reason that the pardon power is very close to absolute. It wouldn't be much of a check if any other entity, be it a court or Congress, could review and reject any pardon. The remedy for a President who abuses the power of the pardon is impeachment. This is what the Supreme Court held in Ex parte Grossman in 1925, in an opinion written by Chief Justice (and former President) William H. Taft. This opinion was unanimously held, I will add.

The straightforward and uncomplicated language of Art. 2 Section 2. gives the President the power to pardon all crimes against the United States, except in cases of impeachment. This is all federal crimes, local crimes in federal territories (like Washington, DC) by anyone before the pardon's granting. This allows the President to issue pardons that are broad in their recipiency, such as when Jimmy Carter pardoned all draft dodgers in the Vietnam War era, or broad in scope, such as when Gerald Ford pardoned former-President Nixon of all crimes he may have committed during a specific time.

The only limit spelled out in the text are for "cases of impeachment." Some people have argued, without merit in my opinion, that the President loses his pardon power if he's impeached. I, and more importantly, most legal scholars, strongly disagree. To me, the exception is best read as more of those checks and balances. Absent this language, the President would be able to moot an impeachment proceeding in Congress by pardoning it. Therefore the language of "except for impeachment" to me reads as the pardon limiting only the criminal sanctions for the crime, not an impeachment case proceeding in Congress.

The last thing that we don't know about is self-pardons. There is obviously no precedent, but the legal consensus is against the President having such power because a self-pardon would not have been understood to be a thing that can be granted when the Constitution was enacted.

Now, granted, he might still try. Even if he did, it wouldn't spare him from any criminal prosecution under state law, and I predict that the Biden Administration would feel a lot of pressure to prosecute him anyway, for the simple fact that it would be a terrible precedent to be allowed to stand by default.

This seems like a lot of power for the President to have. It is. The Founders always assumed that the President would behave responsibly and that the ability to check unelected and unaccountable judges was more important than the low, low odds that some unethical President would abuse the power and that if he tried, he'd be impeached for it.

If nothing else, it underscores the importance of not being afraid to impeach the President. This process of the Constitution wasn't written to be put under glass in a museum and never used. And also why an impeachment and Senatorial conviction is vital to get. Otherwise, there would be no reason for him not to spend his last day in office abusing the power for personal and political benefit. As he might well do.

Aiden

I can't wait to see Trump's Farwell Address get fact-checked.

Caela

Quote from: Aiden on January 19, 2021, 03:37:27 PM
I can't wait to see Trump's Farwell Address get fact-checked.

Is he making on? I'll have to look it up on my break.

gaggedLouise

Quote from: Caela on January 19, 2021, 03:43:07 PM
Is he making on? I'll have to look it up on my break.

Coming tonight - and also he'll be making a brief speech from Andrews Air Base tomorrow morning, on his way down to Florida.

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Mithlomwen

It's pretty freaking sad when his own Vice President is choosing to attend the Biden/Harris inauguration rather than Trump's farewell ceremony tomorrow. 

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Aiden

One sent his goons to murder him.

The other isn't Trump.

Easy choice, IMO.

elone

Quote from: stormwyrm on January 19, 2021, 12:46:13 PM
Now it seems that freaking Mitch McConnell is saying this: "The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the president and other powerful people."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/19/trump-provoked-capitol-riot-mitch-mcconnell-says.html

Where was Mitch for the last four years?  This is the height of hypocrisy. All of a sudden the Republicans see the light. McConnell, Graham, Cruz, and the rest should all be out out to pasture.
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legomaster00156

It's no principled stand against Donald Trump. It's McConnell deciding that Trump has outlived his usefulness, like some Saturday morning cartoon villain shooting a minion.


Deamonbane

Drain the swamp? What swamp? These are federally-protected wetlands!
Angry Sex: Because it's Impolite to say," You pissed me off so much I wanna fuck your brains out..."

Beorning

Looking at some of these pardons, I'm getting convinced more than ever that a presidential pardon really needs some safeguards built in. I can understand people being pardoned due to special circumstances not foreseen by the law, proof of rehabilitation etc. But some of these pardons are just Trump helping out people he likes. Where's any sense of justice in that?

Skynet

As of 2:10 AM EST, the COVID death toll in the USA is 402,000 people. And an estimated 24.3 million people who have it.

In early 2020 before the virus' effects became widely known, President Trump admitted on tape to Bob Woodward that he knew the virus would be deadly, but he wished to downplay its effects "to avoid panic."

He would then go on to deliberately downplay and misinform the public. From injecting disinfectant into the veins as a possible cure...



Argued against the effectiveness of masks and made fun of others for wearing them...

Was found by a study to be the largest driver of misinformation...

...and whose many supporters in government went on to worsen this.

Such as the resignation and arrest of a data scientist asked to falsify information, including a raid on her home...

...whose Senate Majority Leader laughed off his part in withholding COVID aid...

...and whose voting base are far more likely to not bother wearing masks...

...to say nothing of those who would refuse a vaccine.

Trump will be remembered for many things during his time in office. But more than anything I will remember him as the leader who sent nearly half a million American citizens to their deaths for no good reason.

RedPhoenix

Other than Bannon and a few other cronies most of these pardons aren't that bad, a lot of them are actually quite good.

Quote"The vast majority of the pardons and commutations on Trump's list were doled out to individuals whose cases have been championed by criminal justice reform advocates, including people serving lengthy sentences for low-level offenses."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/20/politics/trump-pardons-commutations-list/index.html

You can read the full list here. Most of them have already served their sentences or have served lengthy sentences in prison already.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-press-secretary-regarding-executive-grants-clemency-012021/

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stormwyrm

Quote from: RedPhoenix on January 20, 2021, 01:59:39 AM
Other than Bannon and a few other cronies most of these pardons aren't that bad, a lot of them are actually quite good.

After having a rush of federal executions. You have to go back before 1896 to find a year with more than ten federal executions. And I thought W was execution-happy.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55236260

The cynic in me kind of thinks these other, good pardons are only there as a smokescreen for the much more controversial pardons that he has made, and possibly can still make, as he still has time to issue more.
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