What's in the News? 2.0

[Annaamarth]

Many of these attacks are considered likely to be state sanctioned, many are not, and few are proven one way or another - just like Stuxnet hasn't been proven to be US and company.

Your response kinda underlines the difficulty - who is going to allow Interpol arrest and extradition powers within their sovereignty?

Russia won't, nor China, Turkey, Poland, Finland, Ukraine ... I don't think the US would go for it either. I can hear the outraged cries of "One world govt" and "new world order" already.

It's a challenging situation.

[Tolvo]

Rather infamously in the US we have an act(From the Bush era IIRC) that we would invade the Hague if US soldiers or officials are tried. The US is basically exempt from any sort of international trials of the sort because if they were attempted the US already has laws enabling them to just go to war over it.

[Lustful Bride]

Iran's largest navy ship catches fire after some type of mechanical failure in the engine room and sinks. Crew were all rescued but damn that is not going to be good for the health of the water and fish there. That is a lot of oil and metal and everything else sinking :/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iranian-navy-ship-sinks-after-catching-fire-in-gulf-of-oman/ar-AAKDebL?ocid=msedgntp

[Kathadon]

Iran's largest navy ship catches fire after some type of mechanical failure in the engine room and sinks. Crew were all rescued but damn that is not going to be good for the health of the water and fish there. That is a lot of oil and metal and everything else sinking :/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iranian-navy-ship-sinks-after-catching-fire-in-gulf-of-oman/ar-AAKDebL?ocid=msedgntp

Oooofff! That was an oil replenishment tanker too. Considering the U.S.S Arizona is still leaking oil and diesel in Pearl Harbor after close to 80 years later this is an environmental disaster for that area of the Gulf of Oman.

[Lustful Bride]

Oooofff! That was an oil replenishment tanker too. Considering the U.S.S Arizona is still leaking oil and diesel in Pearl Harbor after close to 80 years later this is an environmental disaster for that area of the Gulf of Oman.

WHAT!? I had no idea that was still happening! I thought 'aw the oil probably leaked all out in like a year, a decade at most.'....wow that makes this uglier than I thought.

[Kathadon]

WHAT!? I had no idea that was still happening! I thought 'aw the oil probably leaked all out in like a year, a decade at most.'....wow that makes this uglier than I thought.

Yep. Some 500,000 gallons are still slowly seeping out of the ship. So the Arizona continues to spill up to 9 quarts of oil into the harbor each day, and the National Park Service estimates it could continue to leak for another 500 years.

[Haibane]

Racism is alive and (un)well in the UK.

Just. Fucking. Sickening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-57334647

[Haibane]

we would invade the Hague if US soldiers or officials are tried.

Except of course you wouldn't. There would be a diplomatic hoo-ha and then probably nothing.

No-one, no matter what internal laws they have in place, is going to invade anywhere in the western world, over anything. Really, that's a nonsense.

[Tolvo]

The whole point is who can strong arm the USA, or invade it to take who they want and extract them for trial? The US would consider taking anyone to trial to essentially be a kidnapping and act of war even if they're in another country. The USA has currently the largest and most powerful military in the world(As far as we know and by spending). The whole point is basically being the global bully. I'm not saying it's a good thing, I think it's rather horrid. And the US has committed a laundry list of war crimes.

[Kathadon]

No U.S. soldier would ever be arrested or turned over to the ICC in the first place as the U.S. does not recognize the ICC's authority. The Rome statute was never put before Congress in the U.S. so it is null and void, and can easily be argued as unconstitutional if they ever did vote to pass it.

This is why America, Israel, and NATO countries only have to pay lip service to international law. They just like to take the moral high ground and appeal to the ICC's rulings when it is useful propaganda against their enemies, like China. Any country that could make it costly to do any enforcement, outside of actual war, can just go 'nah we don't have to obey those laws' when it is inconvenient. I mean, who realistically even could enforce a ruling on any country without the U.S. playing the role of cops?

[Avalon29]

Opponents of Netanyahu and Likud have successfully come to a deal to form a governing coalition. Unless something truly drastic happens it looks like Netanyahu is finally getting the boot and kicked out of office.

https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-062e6baf13e774f30c4e697cb9f2d1f1

[Haibane]

The whole point is who can strong arm the USA, or invade it to take who they want and extract them for trial?

Nobody can strong arm the USA.

However I fear you may have missed my point. You claimed the USA would "invade the Hague" if one of their soldiers or officials were to be tried.

I merely said, no, the US would not "invade the Hague". They would never invade any EU state. That's a preposterous concept.

Then other posters began talking about how the US would ignore the ICC etc but again, that's missing the point. If a US soldier or official were to be tried its obvious (screamingly obvious) that they would be arrested outside of USA jurisdiction and sent for trial in an EU court. No other scenario is plausible. If that were to happen, what then would the USA do?

[Tolvo]

To be fair if the concept is merely "The US wouldn't dare" then probably none in the EU would dare try that to a US soldier.

[Kathadon]

No other scenario is plausible. If that were to happen, what then would the USA do?

To be fair if the concept is merely "The US wouldn't dare" then probably none in the EU would dare try that to a US soldier.

Ignoring that such political will power would be unrealistic. Taking this hypothetical seriously, if demands for extradition were ignored, the U.S. would set up a crack legal defense. They also would attempt to sway public opinion in an effort to muddy the waters, and no doubt begin massive embarrassing leaks, threats, bribery, and blackmail of whatever party or individual that was in charge or had any sway. Judges, lawyers, Prime Ministers, party leaders, bureaucrats, and institutions of the prosecuting country would all be targeted with every skeleton in their closet that the CIA could dig up. All to attempt to make the prosecution untenable or have it dismissed. This is most likely where it would end and all charges would be dropped. There may even be an apology to the U.S. for the "mistake".

If however things still looked to be going badly after all that, with a real possible conviction(or the individual was guilty as sin like, Henry Kissinger), a surgical strike by special forces that would either evac off shore to a waiting navy ship, or worst case to a friendly embassy. How lethal they were would depend on the current geo political status and level of security, but no doubt there would be deaths.

Any attempts to protest such an action would be met with dismissal or outright hostility. It would also lead to an un-official cold war between whatever country and the U.S. The first step being expelling any newly hostile diplomats, stopping any foreign aid, and closing the U.S. embassy there (after extracting the individual if they were still there).

[Fox Lokison]

I merely said, no, the US would not "invade the Hague". They would never invade any EU state. That's a preposterous concept.

Then other posters began talking about how the US would ignore the ICC etc but again, that's missing the point. If a US soldier or official were to be tried its obvious (screamingly obvious) that they would be arrested outside of USA jurisdiction and sent for trial in an EU court. No other scenario is plausible. If that were to happen, what then would the USA do?

I wouldn't say 'never', if only because that's not been a word that can be applied to the US and aggression. Kinda like saying a wild tiger would never bite ya. We've done stupider things, for pettier reasons.

Semantics aside, though, what the US would do would likely just involve using our political force, economic sanctions, bribery, blackmail, and other methods to get the result we wanted. If that's a conviction, or freedom, that's what the resources go to. I wouldn't put the government past a show of force, mind you, but I'm also doubtful it'd ever leave our shores. Why go through the messy process of invasion, when you can just step on someone's political or economic windpipe a bit?

[Lustful Bride]

Retired Army Lt. Col. Barnard Kemter has his mic cut off when he tries to explain how Black Americans were among the first people to celebrate Veterans Day as part of the liberation from slavery, and have a connection with the holiday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/03/us/american-legion-ohio-mic-cut-speech.html

Part of me hopes that next time he gets a mic he just loudly declares 'BLACK LIVES MATTER' and does a mic drop. If they are going to silence him, then he might as well give them a reason to want to pull the plug on him.

[Annaamarth]

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2021/06/04/hudson-american-legion-posts-charter-suspended-leader-resigns/7543211002/

American Legion fired the post commander and may shutter that post entirely.

In case you wanted justice.

[Oniya]

Part of me hopes that next time he gets a mic he just loudly declares 'BLACK LIVES MATTER' and does a mic drop. If they are going to silence him, then he might as well give them a reason to want to pull the plug on him.

Looking at his picture in the Beacon Journal article that Annaamarth linked, he's probably got a 'parade-ground' voice that would make the mic unnecessary.  (Dad is also a retired Lt. Colonel.  Doesn't use it much, but boy-howdy when he does...)

[Beorning]

Looking at his picture in the Beacon Journal article that Annaamarth linked, he's probably got a 'parade-ground' voice that would make the mic unnecessary.  (Dad is also a retired Lt. Colonel.  Doesn't use it much, but boy-howdy when he does...)

"We shall have spinach for dinner!!! SO SAY WE ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

News bit from Poland - one of Poland most awful (IMHO) archbishops delivers another, uhm, wonderful sermon:

https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/06/04/power-of-the-nation-is-built-on-biological-continuity-says-polish-archbishop/

The article doesn't mention it, but Jędraszewski also demanded that women "bear children for the nation and the Church". Huh. Sounds kind of... Nazi, I think?

That's the same guy who warned against the "rainbow plague" of LGBT community, BTW.

[Ket]

That's the same guy who warned against the "rainbow plague" of LGBT community, BTW.

So he goes from "teh gayz r hitler!" ("GBT is “dangerous”, “like Bolshevik or Hitlerite ideologies”, says the Arcbishop of Kraków)

To straight up, "Reproduce for the motherland!"

Okay then.

[Fox Lokison]

"We shall have spinach for dinner!!! SO SAY WE ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

News bit from Poland - one of Poland most awful (IMHO) archbishops delivers another, uhm, wonderful sermon:

https://notesfrompoland.com/2021/06/04/power-of-the-nation-is-built-on-biological-continuity-says-polish-archbishop/

The article doesn't mention it, but Jędraszewski also demanded that women "bear children for the nation and the Church". Huh. Sounds kind of... Nazi, I think?

That's the same guy who warned against the "rainbow plague" of LGBT community, BTW.

“The spiritual unity, continuity and durability of the Polish nation has its own very specific and scientifically measurable foundation – it is its biological continuity and strength,” continued Jędraszewski, who also warned of the dangers of “the infertile or mothers murdering new life”.

"The dangers of the infertile" is uh... QUITE the stance. Doesn't sound very far right at all...

[Oniya]

"The dangers of the infertile" is uh... QUITE the stance. Doesn't sound very far right at all...

So, a post-menopausal woman, or one that's had to have a reproductive cancer removed is a danger.  Got it.

(I know that's not what he meant, but highlighting the unintended meaning helps put it in perspective.)

[Tolvo]

Terfs also have a huge focus on that. Mysteriously they also work a lot with the far right.

[TheGlyphstone]

Biological Continuity sounds spectacularly...ethnic? As well.

[Oniya]

Terfs also have a huge focus on that. Mysteriously they also work a lot with the far right.

Yep, and I call them on it, too.  Part of what we marched for was the right to choose how to use (or not use) our 'fertility'.  And I will beat them with my cane until they understand that - or until the cane breaks, which is more likely.

Biological Continuity sounds spectacularly...ethnic? As well.

Sounds oddly familiar, was my first impression.