Trump

[Suiko]

Much as I do try to keep objective in these things, and I am still a believer in Brexit, the thought of the NHS being put on any kind of bargaining table makes me feel sick. Absolutely not. It would be political suicide for any potential prime minister to consider it, there's not a chance. It's about as British a thing as there could be, and something we are rightfully damn proud of.

[Ironwolf85]

Boris Johnson and Nigel Ferrage are both signed up with a lobbying group that wants to get rid of the NHS in favor of private insurance companies like america.

just... avoid this shit if you can. it's no fun having the highest tech medical science, and a healthcare system that prevents the majority of americans from aceessing it without driving them deep into debt.

[RedEve]

Much as I do try to keep objective in these things, and I am still a believer in Brexit, the thought of the NHS being put on any kind of bargaining table makes me feel sick. Absolutely not. It would be political suicide for any potential prime minister to consider it, there's not a chance. It's about as British a thing as there could be, and something we are rightfully damn proud of.

Wouldn't it depend on who the party/person in power is?

[Suiko]

Wouldn't it depend on who the party/person in power is?

I'd like to think no.

The NHS is something that transcends political parties; whether you're Conservative or Labour, you support the NHS. at least that's the feeling I get whenever I talk to people about it. I've had long debates about Brexit, about immigration and corporal punishment and all the difficult issues - but the NHS is always something to agree on. No one is going to support cutting it up. There's already a lot (though not enough since the info isn't out there) of anger about a heart treatment screen NHS service being outsourced to a private company. People hate it.

[Mathim]

Donald Trump's second day over here was embarrassing in a number of different ways.

There were protests, albeit in smaller numbers than last year, although Trump dismissed them as "fake news". He turned down a meeting with Jeremy Corbyn, the democratically elected leader of the opposition despite my doubts about him, but did meet the unelected leader of the Brexit Party, Nigel Farage. I can't work out whether Trump refused to meet Corbyn after hearing that the latter was going to join the protests against him, or whether Corbyn decided to protest when Trump wouldn't meet him.
At the press conference, Theresa May clarified (to her successors' chagrin) that the NHS  was the National Health Service which Trump said would be on the table in any future deal. Talking of her successors, Trump said that he knew and liked Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt, but didn't know Michael Gove. Odd as there was a picture of them grinning like a pair of buffoons and sticking their thumbs up after Gove had interviewed him in the past!

Should have called him Michael Apple, then he would have remembered.

[Kitteredge]

I'd like to think no.

The NHS is something that transcends political parties; whether you're Conservative or Labour, you support the NHS. at least that's the feeling I get whenever I talk to people about it. I've had long debates about Brexit, about immigration and corporal punishment and all the difficult issues - but the NHS is always something to agree on. No one is going to support cutting it up. There's already a lot (though not enough since the info isn't out there) of anger about a heart treatment screen NHS service being outsourced to a private company. People hate it.

Literally upthread somebody told you two major conservative figures want to break it up.

[CrownedSun]

Literally upthread somebody told you two major conservative figures want to break it up.

I feel like, as an American, "No, come on, there's NO WAY that could actually happen... No one would ever be to rally the support to do it.." has been effectively debunked as a political sentiment.

This kind of shit needs to be taken seriously.

[Mathim]

I feel like, as an American, "No, come on, there's NO WAY that could actually happen... No one would ever be to rally the support to do it.." has been effectively debunked as a political sentiment.

This kind of shit needs to be taken seriously.

This is why I reject political labels. They can literally mean whatever is wanted by the person who calls themselves whatever they self-identify as. All it does and all it's meant to do is be divisive. But at least that means it makes total sense that Trump is literally in a league of his own as far as what he self-identifies as politically.

[Suiko]

Literally upthread somebody told you two major conservative figures want to break it up.

I must have missed it, the thread was on a new page for me when I replied. Still, I do strongly believe that they won't get into power because of that belief.

I feel like, as an American, "No, come on, there's NO WAY that could actually happen... No one would ever be to rally the support to do it.." has been effectively debunked as a political sentiment.

This kind of shit needs to be taken seriously.

I think the difference is that whereas the NHS is an institution, Trump was more a representative of a broad idea of being against the status quo. A lot more people can get behind that, than removing something more concrete.

This is why I reject political labels. They can literally mean whatever is wanted by the person who calls themselves whatever they self-identify as. All it does and all it's meant to do is be divisive. But at least that means it makes total sense that Trump is literally in a league of his own as far as what he self-identifies as politically.

Labels have become very muddy lately. People throw them around without much thought.

[Eye of Horus]

I forgot to mention the important news that Larry, the Downing Street cat, was able to breach the defences of President Trump's highly fortified car when he decided to have a rest underneath it and refused to be moved.

He overheard something about a “pussy grabber” coming to visit and thought he’d better hide.

I feel like, as an American, "No, come on, there's NO WAY that could actually happen... No one would ever be to rally the support to do it.." has been effectively debunked as a political sentiment.

The public are overwhelmingly for the NHS, but there’s a sizeable sect of right-wing politicians (either through links to private sector lobbyists, or just a burning neoliberal hatred of anything run by the public sector) who want to privatise it, partially or fully. Boris Johnson, Jeremy Hunt, Matt Hancock and several of the other Tory leadership hopefuls have voting records or recorded statements that suggest they are of this view.

While previously they recognised that they could only get away with it if the public thought the NHS was falling apart - not coincidentally, the NHS has been systematically underfunded since the Tories came to power in 2010 - but the need for a trade deal after a chaotic Brexit does seem like a good opportunity to say “It’s the only way...”

[legomaster00156]

Much as I do try to keep objective in these things, and I am still a believer in Brexit, the thought of the NHS being put on any kind of bargaining table makes me feel sick. Absolutely not. It would be political suicide for any potential prime minister to consider it, there's not a chance. It's about as British a thing as there could be, and something we are rightfully damn proud of.

Being involved in Brexit is already political suicide, what more do they have to lose?

I think the difference is that whereas the NHS is an institution, Trump was more a representative of a broad idea of being against the status quo. A lot more people can get behind that, than removing something more concrete.

I mean, tearing up institutions is exactly what Trump does.

[Suiko]

Being involved in Brexit is already political suicide, what more do they have to lose?I mean, tearing up institutions is exactly what Trump does.

I don't want to ask about Brexit, since that's not the aim of this thread.
It might be what Trump does, but again I would like to think that the public outcry at the prospect of bargaining with the NHS would be too massive for anything to come of it. Trump isn't well-liked here in the UK, from everything I've seen, and this talk isn't going to help any.

[legomaster00156]

Well, in any case, I seriously doubt it's actually on the table. It's more likely that Trump was asked about it, and spouted an answer without having the slightest clue what was being asked.

[Suiko]

Well, in any case, I seriously doubt it's actually on the table. It's more likely that Trump was asked about it, and spouted an answer without having the slightest clue what was being asked.

He does seem to do that a lot. Off the cuff replies.

[Mechelle]

Well, in any case, I seriously doubt it's actually on the table. It's more likely that Trump was asked about it, and spouted an answer without having the slightest clue what was being asked.

I think that's correct. Trump was asked about the "NHS", had to ask May what that was, and then said it, like everything else would be on the table for a deal, before backtracking later.

There have been elements on the right of the Conservative Party who have wanted to privativise the NHS for some time. They have usually been slapped down by more senior members, but feel more emboldened now.

I am out and only getting a garbled story, but it's possible that, now in the Republic of Ireland, Trump has talked about their "Prime Minister".That will go down well. Whether he thinks Ireland's head of government is not called the Taoiseach or (much worse) thinks it's part of the United Kingdom is unclear.
There was something about a wall on the border too..

[Callie Del Noire]

I think that's correct. Trump was asked about the "NHS", had to ask May what that was, and then said it, like everything else would be on the table for a deal, before backtracking later.

There have been elements on the right of the Conservative Party who have wanted to privativise the NHS for some time. They have usually been slapped down by more senior members, but feel more emboldened now.

I am out and only getting a garbled story, but it's possible that, now in the Republic of Ireland, Trump has talked about their "Prime Minister".That will go down well. Whether he thinks Ireland's head of government is not called the Taoiseach or (much worse) thinks it's part of the United Kingdom is unclear.
There was something about a wall on the border too..

A border wall in Ireland oh yeah that will go over well

[Oniya]

I think that's correct. Trump was asked about the "NHS", had to ask May what that was, and then said it, like everything else would be on the table for a deal, before backtracking later.

There have been elements on the right of the Conservative Party who have wanted to privativise the NHS for some time. They have usually been slapped down by more senior members, but feel more emboldened now.

I am out and only getting a garbled story, but it's possible that, now in the Republic of Ireland, Trump has talked about their "Prime Minister".That will go down well. Whether he thinks Ireland's head of government is not called the Taoiseach or (much worse) thinks it's part of the United Kingdom is unclear.
There was something about a wall on the border too..

Couldn't find the 'Your Prime Minister' thing, but found a BBC reporter's Tweet on the border wall:

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1136309212622020608

President Trump tells Irish PM Leo Varadkar on Brexit: It will all work out for you... with your wall, your border, we have a border situation in the United States and you have one over here

[Oniya]

Even better - there's video!

https://twitter.com/Healyhack/status/1136307545910513669

[Sara Nilsson]

A border wall in Ireland oh yeah that will go over well

What could possibly go wrong? Does Trump know anything about history.. sorry.. does Trump know anything? Wait, why am I even asking of course he doesn't.

[Kurogane]

Is there a checkpoint/wall in Belfast? Is that what trump was speaking of?

[Mechelle]

There were walls built separating the different sectarian communities in Belfast in some places, but that was a few years ago and all within the United Kingdom, even though many would not wish to be in that jurisdiction.

[Kitteredge]

Is there a checkpoint/wall in Belfast? Is that what trump was speaking of?

Probably checkpoints on the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. The border has been open as a requirement of the Good Friday Accords and things have been going very well. As they both belong to the EU common area, there have been no need for border controls. The Brexiteers never really considered that this arrangement would need to be changed upon Leave and still have no solutions. The border used to literally be explosive and threatens to return to very dark days.

I wouldn't count on Trump knowing anything at all. He often regurgitates crap his advisors or friends have told him. I figure he vaguely knows something about a 'barrier,' but not really what it means. Remember that he reflects everything on himself. It only matters because he wants a wall on his own border.

[Kurogane]

100% agree on his obvious idiocy. He neither knows history nor current events, so to assign him with any original thought is folly. Even when it comes to his own warped sense of self, his historical recollections are deeply flawed, again demonstrating a narcissistic personality disorder.

[Oniya]

What could possibly go wrong? Does Trump know anything about history.. sorry.. does Trump know anything? Wait, why am I even asking of course he doesn't.

I think we can reasonably shorten this to 'Does Trump..? No.'

[Kitteredge]

I want to amend my post. Trump does sometimes say the truth, or at least what he desires (or his party desires). This is the problem with having an unhinged dictator as president. He blathers and it's hard to comprehend he means what he says. Levying tariffs on Mexico is insane, but he's wagging his mouth about it. Like many things, this is when he implements them.

Don't be too sanguine about the future of the NHS. Nothing is permanent, especially now. The American ambassador also said the NHS is on the table. It wasn't just the moronic shitgibbon who said it. Naturally Woody Johnson can be an idiot, too, but the idea is out there. Here's the profound danger: without the EU, Britain is a small country. It can twist Commonwealth nations around its finger and many others beside, but when the US or China or the EU itself comes into the frame Britain will be accepting terms, not dictating. This is a country that does not produce enough to feed itself. If things linger, or decline, NHS would most assuredly be on the table. We are in an era where the worst is possible.