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Author Topic: Trump  (Read 112671 times)

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Offline VekseidTopic starter

Re: Trump
« Reply #2525 on: December 31, 2017, 08:23:18 PM »
I despise Trump because his antics have threatened to end American exceptionalism.

For the better part of a century, the United States leeched the best and the brightest the world over. Iran - one of the countries on the ban list - was one of our most prominent sources of entrepreneurs. We're not just losing them, but everyone who has been turned away by Trump's antics.

To help ensure we get none of that revolutionary thinking from home-grown students, he nominated Betsy DeVos.

For these reasons alone - ignoring everything else Trump has done, ever - Trump will go down in history as the worst president ever inflicted on the United States. Without an incredibly dramatic reversal, threatens to end American primacy in the world.

It was never a given that China would surpass us. It still isn't.

Trump's supporters - even those who claim to 'not like' him  - literally perceive an alternate reality, driven by the media apparatus they have been convinced to consume at the expense of everything else. They then demand that the rest of America make decisions according to their perceived reality - no matter how far removed it is from the truth.

And every American suffers for their willful ignorance.

Offline Serephino

Re: Trump
« Reply #2526 on: December 31, 2017, 11:09:21 PM »
Yeah, I had to do a little tongue biting last night.  The guy I was talking to, don't know if he's a Trump supporter, but he did bring up politics a little bit.  He thinks 'illegals' are ruining our welfare system because they take all of it.  Let's just forget the fact that an illegal immigrant is not eligible for any benefits...  He wasn't a bad guy in other aspects, but dude, he drank the kool aid on that one.

Offline Missy

Re: Trump
« Reply #2527 on: January 01, 2018, 12:50:18 AM »
The system isn't immune to being hacked actually. False documents are not a work of fictional news media, although I doubt fictional news media would be able to wrap it's head around that.

What's truley sad is the manner in which Trumpies so joyfully neglect to remember: American is a nation of immigrants. Unless you're a First American Tribal: you're an Immigrant American.

It's why I give a damn about Scottish Independence, yeah?

Offline Various

Re: Trump
« Reply #2528 on: January 01, 2018, 08:18:27 AM »
The system isn't immune to being hacked actually. False documents are not a work of fictional news media, although I doubt fictional news media would be able to wrap it's head around that.

What's truley sad is the manner in which Trumpies so joyfully neglect to remember: American is a nation of immigrants. Unless you're a First American Tribal: you're an Immigrant American.

It's why I give a damn about Scottish Independence, yeah?

Screaming at the guy who steps off the boat RIGHT after you to go back to where he came from is an American tradition. Just look at what Trump and his cult are intellectually descendant from: the 19th century Know-Nothings. They like the Trumpnicks were brought to a frenzy by the thoughts of a primary Roman Catholic immigrant population taking over and believed that conspiracies were at every turn.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2529 on: January 02, 2018, 12:38:54 AM »
What Vekseid said about education is so very, very key. Education is not just important, it is vital to our country's way of life. We have some extremely challenging hurdles to face in the coming century if we're to make it out alive. We need every possible hand and brain that we can get on the oars. For that alone, I loathe him as a president.

And as a prominent person, he threatens the way of life of everyone I know and love, and he legitimizes a level of hate and bigotry in my country that I'm not at all okay with. I'm not keen about having an open sexist and white supremacist in the White House, and I'm vehemently against the anti-science, anti-facts timbre of his administration. I think he's surrounded himself with traitors who need to go to jail. I think he's a crass, vile, small-minded man who is ultimately manipulable by some of the most selfish, destructive government officials that I have seen in government.

Attendance at the local middle school fell approximately 20% after he was elected. That number just about doubled after the first travel ban was passed. It's a widespread phenomenon that has been traced directly to the fear of deportation. There is an active fix to this situation: agree to keep ICE out of grade schools. I do not support a president who actively refuses to alleviate the problem of middle schoolers afraid to go to school.

Hate groups have been more active than ever, emboldened by the rhetoric coming from the top. Racism, islamophobia, homophobia, and sexism have been roosting more comfortably in national dialogue than ever before. I do not support a president who refuses to condemn violence against American citizens.

I do not support a president who uses his social media account to sling threats at people who disagree with him.

I do not support a president who is actively shredding decades of work toward peace around the world.

I do not support a president who is blatantly hypocritical in so very many ways.

I do not support a president who is afraid to admit a mistake.

I do not support Donald Trump and I cannot wait to pour gallons more blood, sweat, and tears into flipping Congress in this year's elections so that we can minimize the damage he is doing to our country.

Offline TheHighwayHitman

Re: Trump
« Reply #2530 on: January 02, 2018, 07:05:54 AM »
There is a lot to comment on.

I digress.

Okay. Trump handled the U.N. just fine. You dont get to trash America and then turn around and ask us for help. The reason the vast majority of the world has its freedoms at the end of the day, is due to the United States military. The reason America spends a billion dollars on a fighter jet is because it can afford too. The reason Sweden doesn't is because America footed the bill already.

The United States is the prom queen on a global scale. Everyone wants to dance with her, some want to do more than that. But very few get the chance, and the way I see it is this. What does the rest of the world do for America to deserve that chance?

Now set that aside a moment.

We just got through having 8 years of a president apologizing for us being awesome. Prior to that, we had a president that quite literally told France that we were going into Iraq regardless of what the U.N. said. That obviously ruffled some feathers. It ruffled even more when America was successful. We got what we wanted. Cooperation between Pakistan and India, cheaper oil, and military bases within striking range of Iran and Israel. It wasn't until Obama and the Iran deal that things escalated in downhill fashion.

What I like about Trump, and what he does do correctly, is disregard the opinions of those who don't matter.  Zimbabwe? Sit down and shut up. We give you 125,000,000 a year in aid and it does nothing. Sweden? How is that socialist, feminist state working out for you now that you're the rape capital of the world? Germany, we're glad you feel sorry about WW2, but listen. You're not going to revert to socialism, you're going to keep doing things the way we want. After all, we are why you have a country that doesn't speak Russian. And to the E.U. No. They are our British. You're not going to rape their economy because Greece and Italy have no sense of themselves. Bla. Bla. Bla. Right?

The point is this. Sometimes somebody needs to hear/somebody needs to say, "Shut your mouth or I'll knock out your teeth." That is what Trump does. For better or worse, he is the one the government picked.

What I don't like about Trump is his temper tantrums. I also don't like that everything he does causes the liberal population to cry foul...but to be perfectly honest, I find that more the fault of the liberal population.

Now. I like Ben Shapiro. Interestingly enough, I also like Jesse Ventura. Yes, Ventura is a little out there at times, but I really like what he has to say about healthcare and the war on drugs. I also like what he has to say about the 2nd Amendment and the US Military. I think Ventura would be a great 2020 candidate on the Republican ticket.

When it comes to being a liar etc, I see that stuff in every politician. So that isn't a priority on how I judge their effectiveness. Very few Americans take politics seriously by my understanding. That is why 10,000 people voted for a dead gorilla.

Places like Canada being upset with America? Dude. Their leader was literally elected because of his hair. Who is really the bigger joke?

Now healthcare and the five million debt for a kid... okay I don't really have an answer to this. But I see that the opening line was single mother. I wont comment further other than to say being a single parent is the single largest way to make things difficult on somebody. Kudos for giving it a try. What I know about healthcare is this. I pay 138.00 a week for medical, dental, and vision. I have pretty good insurance. Why do I have to pay so much so you and your kid can have a level of medical aid you can't get anywhere else in the world? Would your son have been treated as well under socialized healthcare? Absolutely not.  The U.K. lost somewhere between 8-10,000 doctors. Why? Because they are being forced to treat patients that can't pay them. Between social security, medicaid, and medicare, 60% of the federal budget is eaten up at least according to reports Ben Shapiro threw out on the topic. So take it for what it is. I don't know. What I do know is that if you've got cancer and want to live through it, you better get treated in America. Medicine isn't a right. Its a good, a service. If you want the best, you need to pay for the best. Is America's system flawed? Yes. Is there a better one? Not that I know of.

Now finally. Back to the Sledgehammer. Trump isn't swinging the hammer. He IS the Hammer. The rest of the government is swinging him.

Blythe: Why was Bernie your guy? Why was Hillary your gal? You can't use the whole - Trump is a liar, he says mean things, he doesn't know what he's doing shtick like others are saying about Trump. If those things matter, they certainly count against Hillary too. Heck, her platform was based around "I deserve to be president because WOMAN!" Nobody deserves (read: is entitled) to be president and being a woman certainly doesn't have anything to do with it. So if those things aren't immediately dismissive of Hillary, why the double standard for Trump? My point is, you seem intelligent and reasonable enough. I'd like to think you have/had intelligent reasoning for it.

Lastly, to the person who brought up Malcolm Reynolds. He also said, "Maybe I ain't the one to lead but they sure as Hell gotta follow so if you wanna tear me down do it elsewhere."

Trump may not be the one to lead, but as Americans, we have to follow. He's my president, whether I want him to be or not. I have to accept that and vote for somebody else in 2020.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2531 on: January 02, 2018, 07:28:22 AM »
There is a lot to comment on.

I digress.

Okay. Trump handled the U.N. just fine. You dont get to trash America and then turn around and ask us for help. The reason the vast majority of the world has its freedoms at the end of the day, is due to the United States military. The reason America spends a billion dollars on a fighter jet is because it can afford too. The reason Sweden doesn't is because America footed the bill already.


Actually Sweden does build her own fighter aircraft, with our own designs, our own tech know-how, our own factories and our own money. We did so all through the cold war, resulting in some lanes that are on a par with American or Rusian military aircraft, precisely because the country is not a NATO member and wanted to assert the use of its own resources in supplying our own defence.  :D The Swedish air force, since 1950 or so, has never been buying U.S. fighter planes except perhaps a few stray units.

Current family of planes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen (sold to or considered buying by many countries in and outside of NATO)

Cold war generation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_37_Viggen

Online Lustful Bride

Re: Trump
« Reply #2532 on: January 02, 2018, 07:57:51 AM »
There is a lot to comment on.

I digress.

Okay. Trump handled the U.N. just fine. You dont get to trash America and then turn around and ask us for help. The reason the vast majority of the world has its freedoms at the end of the day, is due to the United States military. The reason America spends a billion dollars on a fighter jet is because it can afford too. The reason Sweden doesn't is because America footed the bill already.

The United States is the prom queen on a global scale. Everyone wants to dance with her, some want to do more than that. But very few get the chance, and the way I see it is this. What does the rest of the world do for America to deserve that chance?

I feel like it is this attitude that makes us look bad. The United States is not a prom queen. The US is the Chaotic Good police officer who at the end of the day wants what's best for everyone, even if he is extremely bipolar and fucks up anyone who threatens global stability :P Even fi it means doing some dirty things and making deals with really nasty people.

Its not pretty but it has to be done. Its for the greater good at the end of the day.

We shouldn't lord our past actions over others, expecting them to kiss our asses for it. We helped our allies and fought our enemies. We stopped genocides and fought warlords committing genocide. Its what we do and it has to be done for a better world.

Quote
like about Trump, and what he does do correctly, is disregard the opinions of those who don't matter.  Zimbabwe? Sit down and shut up. We give you 125,000,000 a year in aid and it does nothing. Sweden? How is that socialist, feminist state working out for you now that you're the rape capital of the world? Germany, we're glad you feel sorry about WW2, but listen. You're not going to revert to socialism, you're going to keep doing things the way we want. After all, we are why you have a country that doesn't speak Russian. And to the E.U. No. They are our British. You're not going to rape their economy because Greece and Italy have no sense of themselves. Bla. Bla. Bla. Right?

It makes the US look more like a thug. "You don't do what I say? Then shut the fuck up or else. You are small, you have no use to me. " That just pushes those more into the sphere of influence of other nations.

Not saying places like Zimbabwe would be good allies but at least they wouldn't actively have a dislike and hate of us.

Hell he is alienating the UK, one of America's longtime allies and just weakening our position on the world stage.

Offline WindFish

Re: Trump
« Reply #2533 on: January 02, 2018, 08:29:56 AM »
Places like Canada being upset with America? Dude. Their leader was literally elected because of his hair. Who is really the bigger joke?

As a Canadian, I'm calling 100% bullshit on this line. You're buying right into conservative propaganda. Trudeau was elected because Canadians were fed up with the previous government's corruption and anti-democratic policies that kept on getting oveturned in the courts and because the alternatives were crap. They liked what he had to offer. Perhaps you're mad that unlike your guy, our Prime Minister still has approval ratings above 40% and isn't despised by the rest of the world? Tell me again who the bigger joke is.

Unlike Trump, he's not afraid to admit his mistakes or when our country has been wrong. That's a sign of a real leader. A leader doesn't demonize half the country simply because they disagree with him, go out of their way to antagonize the world (including allies), or take credit for things that they had nothing to do with. A real leader doesn't appeal to the fringes of society and stoke needless tension at home. A real leader works to make sure everyone has a better life, not just his wealthy friends or people of certain skin colors.

I, and I suspect most people here, despise Trump because he is a bigot and a bully. He always has been, and we're not going to give him a free pass simply because he happens to be President now.

Online TheGlyphstone

Re: Trump
« Reply #2534 on: January 02, 2018, 09:21:44 AM »
To address counter-points that other people haven't already:

Sweden, I'm surprised Louise didn't touch this: The Trump/Fox propaganda point of Sweden being the 'rape capitol of the world' is quantifiable and factually false. This is an example of what I mentioned previously, the need to back up argumental points with facts or evidence. In this case, please consider the following:

https://www.snopes.com/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

The claim is verifiably rated FALSE, and given an exhaustive explanation as to why this is so.

Overall, it seems you do have a very America-First attitude, to the point of treating other countries as American satellite states in the fashion of the Soviet Union. It's not wrong or bad to be nationalist, but you have to take a larger view sometimes. Your opinion on Germany for example, that we get to decide what government they have since we saved them from the Russians. By that same logic, should we not be politically subservient to France, since they saved us from being an English colony? French money, guns, and eventually troops were decisive in ending the American Revolution in our favor.


Another thing you brought up is Trump's lies. I agree that lying is part and parcel of politics to some degree. But Trump's habits of lying compulsively and constantly still upset me not because he does it, but because of how clumsily and blatantly he does it. How politics is supposed to work is that a politician lies, then some disgruntled staffer internal political enemy leaks the truth out to media and it gets exposed. How Trump works is that he lies, then anyone with ten minutes and access to Google can expose his lies. He lies about things that are on the official public record - it's not the fact that he lies, it's that he tells STUPID lies; and when he's justifiably called out on it, he screams 'FAKE NEWS' and doubles down on his falsehoods. He's literally leading an administration that coined the term 'alternative facts' not as a joking reference to Orwellian dystopia, but as a completely serious claim.

Offline Valerian

Re: Trump
« Reply #2535 on: January 02, 2018, 09:32:37 AM »
Now finally. Back to the Sledgehammer. Trump isn't swinging the hammer. He IS the Hammer. The rest of the government is swinging him.

Now your analogy makes more sense.  Hard-headed, incapable of any subtlety, unable to make a decision on his own or follow through without an outside force pushing him, and indiscriminately destructive sums 45 up perfectly.  The rest of the government has turned him into a convenient bill-signer -- though that hasn't accomplished much as yet since they've passed so little actual legislation -- and regulation-destroyer because they're clinging to outdated ideas like trickle-down economics that have been thoroughly disproved.

I'm still curious, though, as to why you're so convinced that the actions performed by this sledgehammer can be good or useful in world politics.  How is threatening less-powerful countries for no reason other than that it's Tuesday not simply the act of a playground bully?  Do you feel that turning the U.S. into a bully is a positive move?

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2536 on: January 02, 2018, 10:07:56 AM »
To address counter-points that other people haven't already:

Sweden, I'm surprised Louise didn't touch this: The Trump/Fox propaganda point of Sweden being the 'rape capitol of the world' is quantifiable and factually false. This is an example of what I mentioned previously, the need to back up argumental points with facts or evidence. In this case, please consider the following:

https://www.snopes.com/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

The claim is verifiably rated FALSE, and given an exhaustive explanation as to why this is so.

I never got further into the details of his post after those first lines with a laughably false claim. Thanks for covering for me, Glyph! :)

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2537 on: January 02, 2018, 10:47:04 AM »
There's a lot of words in what you said, but very little actual information aside from your own personal assertion.

What I will say, however, is that for a single mother, I'm one of those Canadians you've decided are a joke. A joke perhaps, but I don't pay a hundred thousand dollars a year in health insurance, and our "socialized healthcare" did just fine. Americans talk all the time about how their health care is superior in quality, but that doesn't explain why those of essential need continue to come to Canada, whereas the US gets more people who look for plastic surgery and other non-essential procedures. The single mother bit was incidental, but somehow ended up being the focus of your first several sentences. The line kudos for giving it a try implies there was another option. While a bit insulting, that simply makes me believe there is a lack of empathy happening here. But in terms of "Is there a better healthcare system?" question, it's actually fairly easy to find whatever answers you're looking for, provided you're actually looking for information and not simply something you can wield that supports a pre-determined opinion.

For the rest of it, there's a lot of 'Murica!' bluster in your words, but it would be helpful if it was backed up with evidence.

"Lastly, to the person who brought up Malcolm Reynolds. He also said, "Maybe I ain't the one to lead but they sure as Hell gotta follow so if you wanna tear me down do it elsewhere."

Actually, I'm pretty sure that was you, in fact.

The rest of the post sounds like the Prom Queen also happens to be a spoiled teenager. I love how it's suddenly "our Britain" while other times the ones saying this stuff is as anti-British as possible to be, literally since the beginning of the country. Trump pushed for the British exit without either realizing or caring how badly it was going to come down on Britain. From the way he has been going about things, it seems more as though he's blindly stumbling through the world without any clue what he's doing. There has been no real indication that he is capable.

Glyph mentioned the lies, so I won't go any further on that point than to say that the lies seem to be, completely and unwaveringly, intended to make him look good to whomever won't question him. What you have is a politician who tells drinking stories as public address.

What I think we can all agree on, however, is that Trump is legitimately a tool. Glad we cleared that up.

Offline TheHighwayHitman

Re: Trump
« Reply #2538 on: January 02, 2018, 11:13:29 AM »
Swedens aircraft are not on par with America's. But even so. Okay. Sweden aside.  Sweden's military is not on par with America's. The only two other militaries in the entire world on par with America's are Russian and Israeli. North Morea is stl fielding ww2 Russian destroyers and China is getting close.

Sweden being the rape capitol... eh, you got me there. I do dismiss most everything the media says, left and right. I am not a Swede though much of my ancestry is.  On the other hand, the liberal media isn't going to tell the truth about one of it's cornerstones, either. While I can say that I really don't know, I have to go with the most believable sources and keep collecting data.

On Canada. No. I'm not mad. Nor am I angry. I just understand that nobody takes Canada or her politics seriously on a global scale. Canda doesn't have the influence, wealth, industry, or culture that the United States does. People from all over the world don't talk about going to Canada. They don't request billions in aid every year, and they don't ask for military support - not to the degree America does. The US does more in foreign aid than how many othet countries combined?

We have a president who says, "Go ask Canada for help. Or China. Or Russia. Yeah. America isn't so bad now, is she?"

This is not a bad thing. This is a correct thing.

Fact: Donald Trump won the election because Hillary was a worse choice than him.
Fact: Donald Trump won the election because he spoke plainly and didn't obfuscate nonsense in political jargon.
Fact: Donald Trump responds to dirty fighting by fighting dirty. Calling him a bigot, bully, homophobe, etc has no meaning or value at all. Doing that didn't stop him from getting elected. It turned more people to him. People like me who get sick of hearing that nonsense thrown around. Call me a bigot, I'll say "No. You're just a dumb asshole who doesn't have a valid argument. You are the weakest link. Goodbye."

Its like I pointed out to Blythe. I don't care about whether or not he's an egomaniac. Everyone running for president of the most powerful nation on Earth has an ego. I don't care if he's comedic. So is Kim Jong Un or whatever his name is. So is Trudeau. I don't care if he's a bully. He's not bullying me.

Back to the sledghammer! Yes! Bingo! The president is, and has been a tool for the rest of the government! That is exactly what I am saying. I do not trust the government to make great decisions. However, I have to pick the lesser of two evils. That means I have to side with the right. Its doing what is best for me.

Trickle Down economics. A phrase coined by democrats. Okay where is the proof it doesn't work? As long as there is a greedy ceo, there is going to be somebody stashing money away. You got me. On the other hand, lets look at all of these sweet technological and medical advances that it took some rich person in the private sector to invest in that we all enjoy so much. So it -does- work.

Being a bully? Well to start with, it doesn't bother me. Why should it? Are you suggesting that America doesn't try to improve the world? Or are you suggesting that America is going to use Trump to bully the rest of the world into doing what's best? Just saying "He's a belligerent bully!" doesn't do or mean anything.

I happen to like that he is knocking out political correctness. I happen to like that he isn't raising my taxes so people who are going to drop out or otherwise not get a useful college degree or contribute wealth to the pool go to college. I happen to like that he salutes the Marines after getting off AF1. I also happen to like that he calls the liberal media out on being fake. I completely am okay with him dismissing the wage gap and quite frankly I am glad he we have someone in office who isn't apologizing for being the leader of the most powerful country on Earth.

Yes! This is all okay. This is all good stuff!

Now lets stop caring about whether or not he's an orange with funny hair and do some other cool stuff like figure out how to colonize Mars! That SpaceX program looks like it's got some good ideas. And we just go photos of Jupiter all up close! We've got the best drugs for both AIDs and Cancer to help survive. Lets figure out how to get them to the rest of the world and make them better!

Some people are so worried about petty crap and me me me that they don't realize how petty they're actually being; and the worst part of all is they're doing it over something they have no control over, no say in, and can do less than zero about.

There's a person who said me saying politicians are ueless is toxic. What does that even mean? Because no it isn't The majority seemed to even agree with that statement. But wait there is an example of a British politician that was murdered. Okay? What did you do about it? Nothing. Nobody is condoning murder. Nobody even suggested that. How and why someone would take that part of my statement and make it about toxicity is beyond me.

It goes hand in hand with the Canadian insinuating I'm mad over a politician's approval rating. It is not at all what I said, and it has nothing to do with the barrage of statements being made about Trump. I've stated no less than 3 or 4 times now that President Trump isn't exactly my choice but I'm stuck with him.

To be truly honest, it boggles my mind how someone without a horse in the race (Canadians, Swedes, Brits, etc) can have such vitriol for a world leader of a country that has a track record of doing what is best for everyone, including coming to their aid, (financially, with the military, or with other things like food and medicine) because he's a knucklehead (or isn't a liberal knucklehead). I have not attacked anyone's opinions. I haven't attacked anyone's logic or tried to play them like they are dumb, though I suppose I did mention Trudeau was elected over his hair. I have tried to respond to all reasonable questions and comments to the best of my ability. From mental illness to healthcare to things Trump has done that I approve of and even a corny analogy about him being a sledgehammer. I've gone so far as to say that I would like to see Jesse Ventura or Ben Shapiro run for president.

I did not come here to get into the political debates or any of that. I came to E to write stories, many of which have smutty content. I came to this particular section because the topic is Trump, and I was looking for people who might have more leanings to the right side of the isle.

My bad. I wasn't trying to poop in your cornflakes.


Offline RedEve

Re: Trump
« Reply #2539 on: January 02, 2018, 11:54:12 AM »
I don't care if he's a bully. He's not bullying me.

I'm not sure you really thought through the moral reality of this statement. Are you saying you do not care what he does to anyone else as long as he doesn't hurt you and yours?

Offline RedEve

Re: Trump
« Reply #2540 on: January 02, 2018, 11:57:06 AM »
Also, the rest of the world does have a horse in this race.
If he starts a war with North Korea, it will impact more than just the U.S. and North Korea.
Opting out of the Paris Climate accords also impacts more than just the U.S.
This sort of all comes along with the territory of being the leader of one of the few remaining superpowers.

Online Lustful Bride

Re: Trump
« Reply #2541 on: January 02, 2018, 12:01:22 PM »
To be truly honest, it boggles my mind how someone without a horse in the race (Canadians, Swedes, Brits, etc) can have such vitriol for a world leader of a country that has a track record of doing what is best for everyone, including coming to their aid, (financially, with the military, or with other things like food and medicine) because he's a knucklehead (or isn't a liberal knucklehead).

In the sake of fairness would you be comfortable if somebody who was supposed to have your back started acting like he just lost his shit? Going on rants on twitter like a teenager every other day and acting immature instead of the leader he is supposed to be? Making obvious lies at times and accusing anyone who didn't agree with him as just being liars and 'Fake news'. It doesn't reflect well on us. We have an image to maintain and that image has been utterly ruined.

If we cant be respected we should be feared, but Trump is just making us a laughing stock.

Online Lustful Bride

Re: Trump
« Reply #2542 on: January 02, 2018, 12:04:39 PM »
Also, the rest of the world does have a horse in this race.
If he starts a war with North Korea, it will impact more than just the U.S. and North Korea.
Opting out of the Paris Climate accords also impacts more than just the U.S.
This sort of all comes along with the territory of being the leader of one of the few remaining superpowers.

+1. We are an important backbone to many free nations of the world. Someone they can always call upon when things get bad, a balance to Russia and China and ensuring no other superpower has too much influence, but that position is being jeopardized by us alienating our allies. They might just start listening to other powers trying to win them over, tilting the scales.

Power is more than just flexing muscles, its knowing when to extend a hand in peace and when to shrug off an insult of to take a punch to save it for later. Politics are a chess game, not "Give me this or il call you a fake news liberal!"

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2543 on: January 02, 2018, 12:22:02 PM »
Sweden being the rape capitol... eh, you got me there. I do dismiss most everything the media says, left and right. I am not a Swede though much of my ancestry is.  On the other hand, the liberal media isn't going to tell the truth about one of it's cornerstones, either. While I can say that I really don't know, I have to go with the most believable sources and keep collecting data.
The trick, though, is what sources you consider believable. Some media can be decried as having a liberal bias, but that just means media outside that grouping is going to have a conservative bias by definition, since you are either liberal or conservative. My go-to filter is https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/, where you can find most major news and media outlets flagged based on their political slant and degree of such. That helps me, because once I know the slant of an outlet, I can mentally counterbalance to some degree, and I make a point of cross-comparing articles on the same topic by both 'liberal' and 'conservative' outlets. With that broad spectrum of sources, collating articles with opposing slants helps me average out to a theoretically neutral result, aided by the tiny handful of truly apolitical news sources.
 
Quote
The US does more in foreign aid than how many other countries combined?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_country_donors

This data is from 2015, which is old but unlikely to have changed significantly since global politics moves slowly. Based on pure $ amount, the US is the second-largest donor - the EU is three times as much as the US (completely separate from the foreign aid donations of its individual member states) That still leaves the US as a very substantial donor, which is a factual point.

However, it's only one way of measuring it, with the other being a percentage of GDP - not how much money is actually given, but how much is given out of what could be given. Consider an analogy to charity - a multimillionaire donating $10 to charity is laughably small, they lose that much in rounding errors when their accountants do the books.A minimum-wage janitor donating $10 to charity is a lot, more than a hour's worth of their labor and a non-insignificant fraction of their total paycheck. Reverting back the analogy to GDP, the United States only gives 0.17% of its GDP to foreign aid, #20 on the list.

Quote
Fact: Donald Trump won the election because Hillary was a worse choice than him.
Fact: Donald Trump won the election because he spoke plainly and didn't obfuscate nonsense in political jargon.
Fact: Donald Trump responds to dirty fighting by fighting dirty. Calling him a bigot, bully, homophobe, etc has no meaning or value at all. Doing that didn't stop him from getting elected. It turned more people to him. People like me who get sick of hearing that nonsense thrown around. Call me a bigot, I'll say "No. You're just a dumb asshole who doesn't have a valid argument. You are the weakest link. Goodbye."
[/quote]
How can these be considered facts, when terms like 'worse' are by definition subjective? Your second point is the closest to a fact, but even that is simply because I agree with it - it can't be objectively measured; Donald Trump was elected due to a wide assortment of factors and influences.

Quote
Now lets stop caring about whether or not he's an orange with funny hair and do some other cool stuff like figure out 'how to colonize Mars! That SpaceX program looks like it's got some good ideas. And we just go photos of Jupiter all up close! We've got the best drugs for both AIDs and Cancer to help survive. Lets figure out how to get them to the rest of the world and make them better!
Worth noting that Trump cut NASA's budget, in large part because their satellites do climate change research and data collection, which is anathema to his elite support base. Not a counterpoint to your argument, I love space and believe it should be a massively higher priority - but under Trump, space exploration is going to decline further, not improve.

Quote
To be truly honest, it boggles my mind how someone without a horse in the race (Canadians, Swedes, Brits, etc) can have such vitriol for a world leader of a country that has a track record of doing what is best for everyone, including coming to their aid, (financially, with the military, or with other things like food and medicine) because he's a knucklehead (or isn't a liberal knucklehead). I have not attacked anyone's opinions. I haven't attacked anyone's logic or tried to play them like they are dumb, though I suppose I did mention Trudeau was elected over his hair. I have tried to respond to all reasonable questions and comments to the best of my ability. From mental illness to healthcare to things Trump has done that I approve of and even a corny analogy about him being a sledgehammer. I've gone so far as to say that I would like to see Jesse Ventura or Ben Shapiro run for president.

Now this is absolutely true, and I will take a moment to applaud you for it. There are so many different ways and reactions you could have taken, some of which I've seen on this very site when new people who leaned right did something very similar, came looking for kindred spirits. They were hostile, accusatory, defensive - you haven't been, which is refreshing in this day and age.

Quote
I did not come here to get into the political debates or any of that. I came to E to write stories, many of which have smutty content. I came to this particular section because the topic is Trump, and I was looking for people who might have more leanings to the right side of the isle.

My bad. I wasn't trying to poop in your cornflakes.

There are some people who lean right here, but a definite minority in large part due to the very nature of this site. We are, as you said, a community for writers with a particular emphasis on sexual content. The right, at least in the political arena, has become increasingly to the point of overwhelmingly dominated by influences like Christian religious conservatism, people who would react to our simple premise with outrage and hatred, let alone things like our LBGTQ tolerance. They're going to self-select away from communities such as ours because the core reason for us being here is in fundamental opposition to their beliefs.


Now, a closing point, at least for now since I'm shortly to depart for work. Early on you asked to be met in the middle; not necessarily in terms of shifting opinions, since that  is an unreasonable expectation from simple discussion, but at least in terms of understanding viewpoints. You've done a solid job of outlining and explaining your position, for all that we might disagree strenously with some of (though not all) of the things you've said. Have you managed to move towards that middle at all from your direction, yet? You might not agree, but have you reached the point of being able to understand why we hold our positions even if you don't necessarily agree? The #1 destructive force is politics in this era is the move away from cooperation and bipartisanship into antagonistic back-and-forth; being able to project and empathize with opponents is the first of the baby steps to undoing that trend.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2544 on: January 02, 2018, 12:35:51 PM »
What you seem to like to point out as fact just simply isn't. There are no scraps of evidence that can be pointed to that withstand the test of scrutiny to support these so-called "facts". Your opinion, they might be, but they are not facts.

Further, you seem to have a very skewed idea of the world. Canada is called in for more operations world-wide in a year than America is called to respond to in a decade, because our primary option is in peacekeeping and not in military aggression. I have personally trained more people for military support than I ever have for hostile maneuvers. It's just simply not a policy most people use, nor a standard by which most balanced communities tend to measure success. On a global scale, Canadians are generally accepted, appreciated and more easily socialized with, even in places where Americans are unwelcome. Our politics with many foreign powers are still on the rise, while America's wanes. It is possible that you're speaking in terms of military power only, however, at which point I'd say yes. When it comes down to the possibilities of going to war, you want to rile the American populace, because they have a greater number of wealthy people who can throw money at the problem. With that said, even in places where American military help has been requested, they have often outsourced some of their response to us.

While America has a greater amount of advanced technology to use, better equipment, they are not even remotely close to the best trained of military personnel. They spend way too much of their faith in gadgets and not in people. As a result, Canadians are often amongst those called in first to soften the ground for American troops.

You're welcome.

The problem seems to be that Trump appeals to those who have a much higher opinion of themselves than the rest of us have. You say that he wants to compare himself to Canada in an effort to make it obvious Canada is inferior without realizing that most of the material that runs the American factories comes from Canada. Most of the labour from Mexico. We may not have the wealth or industry of the US, but in many ways we are also superior in kind. Numbers are not the end of all arguments. But as for Culture, I would argue that ours is stronger, and influence perhaps now tied. The rest of your claims about Canada are ludicrous. "They don't request billions in aid every year" They sure do.

Fact: Donald Trump won the election because Hillary was a worse choice than him.
Fact: Donald Trump won the election because he spoke plainly and didn't obfuscate nonsense in political jargon.
Fact: Donald Trump responds to dirty fighting by fighting dirty. Calling him a bigot, bully, homophobe, etc has no meaning or value at all. Doing that didn't stop him from getting elected. It turned more people to him. People like me who get sick of hearing that nonsense thrown around. Call me a bigot, I'll say "No. You're just a dumb asshole who doesn't have a valid argument. You are the weakest link. Goodbye."

Up until the point where you can support ANY evidence for  your first "fact", it can be dismissed with impunity.
Your second fact is a veritable battleground, based solely in opinion. Perhaps it is true for your own outlook to say that this is why he was elected, or how. But this has never been a definitive answer and I doubt there ever will be, in either way. If you have proof of this, you can leave it here. If you do not, it is now irrelevant and stricken from anyone's serious consideration.
Your third fact is only compounded by the previous two dismissed comments. Oftentimes, he responds to people who aren't fighting him at all by adding in attacks out of nowhere. He draws first blood, sarge, nothing to be done to get around that. Calling him those words might have no meaning or value to you, but it seems to be because you have yourself claimed that you dismiss the vast majority of information coming to you. Your opinion on the matter cannot be weighted in your favour or as having much in the way of value itself when you decide that the majority of information is beneath you. Calling him these things, however, is objectively of meaning since they are actual words existing in the English language. Whether YOU find it to be of value or not is another question altogether.

Frankly, if calling someone racist, bully or homophobe turns people TO Trump, I'm sure Canada will be willing to provide one of our sturdiest ice flowes on which to pile these folks. I'm sure the ice'll hold. After all, if you hear "this person victimizes people for no reason" and decide "well, then that's the candidate for me!" Well, goodbye, then. I'm sure someone will be upset to lose them. I won't.

For someone who came out defensively expecting to be attacked, you sure do a lot of attacking, belittling and dismissing people. You seem to want to bathe in reflected glory from those who have actually pulled together and accomplished the reputation you seem to wish that America still had. Somehow, it seems to bolster the parts of you that want to come across as more important than the people around you. It's a ridiculous double-standard for you to call out so vehemently a small number of perceived crimes when throwing the same fits of delusion that seem to plague those with whom you take such exception. Whether you want to accept it or not, there is a great deal of bigotry in your words and contending that you would summarily and thoughtlessly insist on the silence of those who speak the truth to you, then you're directly contradicting the reasons you've claimed to support Trump in the first place, making you an element that cannot be trusted in debate or in real life.

I don't care if he's a bully. He's not bullying me.

This is such a closed-minded, exclusionary attitude, not tomention this is how the mindsets of those of the general populace begin to feed into the detriment and downfall of a civilization. There is absolutely no benevolence of any sort to this mindset, which is what the rest of the world is beginning to understand. America isn't what it once was, but not because of evil Obama or socialist healthcare. It's because Americans are perceived in a lot of places of having exactly the attitude of the last two vocal Trump supporters to have come in here.

"Picking on other people is okay. We'll win because we're stronger and that's fine for us, everyone else can go fuck themselves and if they don't, we'll fuck them up ourselves."

The opinion on the US is dropping worldwide BECAUSE of this mindset.

If you don't trust the Government to make good decisions, why would you want them to wield sledgehammers. It feels like to me your concept of everything is what survival of the most fit is not helping you out at all. You're literally self-destructing.

In fact, from there, your post gets more and more outrageous and makes less and less sense.

From trickle-down economics to being the proponent of bullying, from a completely backwards idea of how healthcare, taxes and education works, a completely biased idea of news and information and a self-centered view of the world only serves to reinforce that you have very little of value to add to my life on a personal level and that beyond that point, your outlook is entirely appalling. Nothing will ever improve for anyone so long as those sorts of mindsets are in power.

To be clear, SpaceX is led by Musk, who is anti-Trump. It is also a fact that Trump has crippled the sciences. So long as he remains in power, colonizing Mars isn't an option. Particularly tragic since it seems that Mars is the best possible chance we have at being able to survive: Send the president to Mars.

Wanna talk about life-saving drugs? One of the big corporate darlings recently (in the last few years) hiked the price of life-saving medication up to seven hundred dollars per pill, but less government regulations are a good thing, right? Despite the fact that a set of high-school students in Australia managed to slap together the exact same thing in a high-school lab for under two dollars per pill? Yeah, that's going swell. At this rate, the market will be cornered by Australia and America is just going to keep throwing fits via their resident rabid junkyard dog/president.

Some people are so worried about petty crap and me me me that they don't realize how petty they're actually being; and the worst part of all is they're doing it over something they have no control over, no say in, and can do less than zero about.

This is literally everything you've been doing since you got to this thread. Only now you're saying it about other people instead of taking responsibility for doing it yourself.


There's a person who said me saying politicians are ueless is toxic. What does that even mean? Because no it isn't The majority seemed to even agree with that statement. But wait there is an example of a British politician that was murdered. Okay? What did you do about it? Nothing. Nobody is condoning murder. Nobody even suggested that. How and why someone would take that part of my statement and make it about toxicity is beyond me.

That's probably because insinuating that people are useless and if they weren't, they wouldn't be what they are. Saying that if someone wasn't completely useless, they wouldn't be a politician is just... you're just looking to pick a fight then you do what Republicans tend to want to do: pick up one small detail and argue that because attacking something that isn't a strawman makes things just too fair and tough.

To be truly honest, it boggles my mind how someone without a horse in the race (Canadians, Swedes, Brits, etc) can have such vitriol for a world leader of a country that has a track record of doing what is best for everyone, including coming to their aid, (financially, with the military, or with other things like food and medicine) because he's a knucklehead (or isn't a liberal knucklehead). I have not attacked anyone's opinions. I haven't attacked anyone's logic or tried to play them like they are dumb, though I suppose I did mention Trudeau was elected over his hair. I have tried to respond to all reasonable questions and comments to the best of my ability. From mental illness to healthcare to things Trump has done that I approve of and even a corny analogy about him being a sledgehammer. I've gone so far as to say that I would like to see Jesse Ventura or Ben Shapiro run for president.

For a man who stated ad nauseum how much influence America has, you're either being dishonest or else thick. Everyone has a horse in the race. Everyone. Because America likes to get up in everyone else's business. And yeah, we have vitriol for him. Because he doesn't do what's good for anyone. Including himself. He does not. He's an angry toddler chimp destroying everything around him. If you mean the country has a track record of doing what is best for everyone, that's a very self-centered statement. They have had a track record of doing what is best for them and enforcing on others what THEY BELIEVE is best for others. The trouble is, that "Shut up or I'll knock your teeth in" attitude has often been a defining factor of America. People resent that. Trump embodies it. The vitriol that you haven't noticed has been directed towards America as a whole for decades.

You haven't attacked the people, yet. But it is clear from your words that you would as easily tell us to go fuck ourselves directly as you have done indirectly. You might not have tried to victimize an individual, but it is abundantly clear from your statements that you have deliberately taken a tack that - while it could be easily non-hostile and refuse to take shots at others, somehow manages to miss all that and do it anyway - could very easily be translated as "me first, me middle, me last and not only can the rest of you go suck on something unpleasant, but you're at fault for it all in the end as well." It's ridiculous, and you don't get to circumvent the consequences of your words simply by claiming that none of us was the direct target of it all.

You've been discussing from a place of intense dishonesty and I, for one, am not about to let it slide.

I did not come here to get into the political debates or any of that. I came to E to write stories, many of which have smutty content. I came to this particular section because the topic is Trump, and I was looking for people who might have more leanings to the right side of the isle.

My bad. I wasn't trying to poop in your cornflakes.

Yeah. Yeah, you did. You came to a topic called Trump, in the "Politics, Religion and Other Controversies" board. You came in swinging. You tore down every other country in the world. You claimed to be okay with sacrificing people and claimed that the rest of us were in dire need of someone telling us to shut up or face the threat of physical violence. You deliberately came in seeking political allies in the same sentence as you alienated and put on defensive every other individual already in this thread.

You put down every effort, politician, culture and power in the world, from the UN to the EU, Canada to Sweden to Germany to China. You insinuated yourself and your country as a superior. You took it upon yourself to tell us "our place" in the world and what our worth was as based on how useful we were to you. You used strawmen and ad hominem attacks. You wielded logical fallacy, double standard and accusations born of projection to blame others for the same crimes you were in the process of committing.

If you didn't come here to pick a fight or get political then you, sir, are a natural.


Online Lustful Bride

Re: Trump
« Reply #2545 on: January 02, 2018, 12:48:32 PM »
What you seem to like to point out as fact just simply isn't. There are no scraps of evidence that can be pointed to that withstand the test of scrutiny to support these so-called "facts". Your opinion, they might be, but they are not facts.

Further, you seem to have a very skewed idea of the world. Canada is called in for more operations world-wide in a year than America is called to respond to in a decade, because our primary option is in peacekeeping and not in military aggression. I have personally trained more people for military support than I ever have for hostile maneuvers. It's just simply not a policy most people use, nor a standard by which most balanced communities tend to measure success. On a global scale, Canadians are generally accepted, appreciated and more easily socialized with, even in places where Americans are unwelcome. Our politics with many foreign powers are still on the rise, while America's wanes. It is possible that you're speaking in terms of military power only, however, at which point I'd say yes. When it comes down to the possibilities of going to war, you want to rile the American populace, because they have a greater number of wealthy people who can throw money at the problem. With that said, even in places where American military help has been requested, they have often outsourced some of their response to us.

While America has a greater amount of advanced technology to use, better equipment, they are not even remotely close to the best trained of military personnel. They spend way too much of their faith in gadgets and not in people. As a result, Canadians are often amongst those called in first to soften the ground for American troops.

You're welcome.

The problem seems to be that Trump appeals to those who have a much higher opinion of themselves than the rest of us have. You say that he wants to compare himself to Canada in an effort to make it obvious Canada is inferior without realizing that most of the material that runs the American factories comes from Canada. Most of the labour from Mexico. We may not have the wealth or industry of the US, but in many ways we are also superior in kind. Numbers are not the end of all arguments. But as for Culture, I would argue that ours is stronger, and influence perhaps now tied. The rest of your claims about Canada are ludicrous. "They don't request billions in aid every year" They sure do.

Up until the point where you can support ANY evidence for  your first "fact", it can be dismissed with impunity.
Your second fact is a veritable battleground, based solely in opinion. Perhaps it is true for your own outlook to say that this is why he was elected, or how. But this has never been a definitive answer and I doubt there ever will be, in either way. If you have proof of this, you can leave it here. If you do not, it is now irrelevant and stricken from anyone's serious consideration.
Your third fact is only compounded by the previous two dismissed comments. Oftentimes, he responds to people who aren't fighting him at all by adding in attacks out of nowhere. He draws first blood, sarge, nothing to be done to get around that. Calling him those words might have no meaning or value to you, but it seems to be because you have yourself claimed that you dismiss the vast majority of information coming to you. Your opinion on the matter cannot be weighted in your favour or as having much in the way of value itself when you decide that the majority of information is beneath you. Calling him these things, however, is objectively of meaning since they are actual words existing in the English language. Whether YOU find it to be of value or not is another question altogether.

Frankly, if calling someone racist, bully or homophobe turns people TO Trump, I'm sure Canada will be willing to provide one of our sturdiest ice flowes on which to pile these folks. I'm sure the ice'll hold. After all, if you hear "this person victimizes people for no reason" and decide "well, then that's the candidate for me!" Well, goodbye, then. I'm sure someone will be upset to lose them. I won't.

For someone who came out defensively expecting to be attacked, you sure do a lot of attacking, belittling and dismissing people. You seem to want to bathe in reflected glory from those who have actually pulled together and accomplished the reputation you seem to wish that America still had. Somehow, it seems to bolster the parts of you that want to come across as more important than the people around you. It's a ridiculous double-standard for you to call out so vehemently a small number of perceived crimes when throwing the same fits of delusion that seem to plague those with whom you take such exception. Whether you want to accept it or not, there is a great deal of bigotry in your words and contending that you would summarily and thoughtlessly insist on the silence of those who speak the truth to you, then you're directly contradicting the reasons you've claimed to support Trump in the first place, making you an element that cannot be trusted in debate or in real life.

This is such a closed-minded, exclusionary attitude, not tomention this is how the mindsets of those of the general populace begin to feed into the detriment and downfall of a civilization. There is absolutely no benevolence of any sort to this mindset, which is what the rest of the world is beginning to understand. America isn't what it once was, but not because of evil Obama or socialist healthcare. It's because Americans are perceived in a lot of places of having exactly the attitude of the last two vocal Trump supporters to have come in here.

"Picking on other people is okay. We'll win because we're stronger and that's fine for us, everyone else can go fuck themselves and if they don't, we'll fuck them up ourselves."

The opinion on the US is dropping worldwide BECAUSE of this mindset.

If you don't trust the Government to make good decisions, why would you want them to wield sledgehammers. It feels like to me your concept of everything is what survival of the most fit is not helping you out at all. You're literally self-destructing.

In fact, from there, your post gets more and more outrageous and makes less and less sense.

From trickle-down economics to being the proponent of bullying, from a completely backwards idea of how healthcare, taxes and education works, a completely biased idea of news and information and a self-centered view of the world only serves to reinforce that you have very little of value to add to my life on a personal level and that beyond that point, your outlook is entirely appalling. Nothing will ever improve for anyone so long as those sorts of mindsets are in power.

To be clear, SpaceX is led by Musk, who is anti-Trump. It is also a fact that Trump has crippled the sciences. So long as he remains in power, colonizing Mars isn't an option. Particularly tragic since it seems that Mars is the best possible chance we have at being able to survive: Send the president to Mars.

Wanna talk about life-saving drugs? One of the big corporate darlings recently (in the last few years) hiked the price of life-saving medication up to seven hundred dollars per pill, but less government regulations are a good thing, right? Despite the fact that a set of high-school students in Australia managed to slap together the exact same thing in a high-school lab for under two dollars per pill? Yeah, that's going swell. At this rate, the market will be cornered by Australia and America is just going to keep throwing fits via their resident rabid junkyard dog/president.

This is literally everything you've been doing since you got to this thread. Only now you're saying it about other people instead of taking responsibility for doing it yourself.


That's probably because insinuating that people are useless and if they weren't, they wouldn't be what they are. Saying that if someone wasn't completely useless, they wouldn't be a politician is just... you're just looking to pick a fight then you do what Republicans tend to want to do: pick up one small detail and argue that because attacking something that isn't a strawman makes things just too fair and tough.

For a man who stated ad nauseum how much influence America has, you're either being dishonest or else thick. Everyone has a horse in the race. Everyone. Because America likes to get up in everyone else's business. And yeah, we have vitriol for him. Because he doesn't do what's good for anyone. Including himself. He does not. He's an angry toddler chimp destroying everything around him. If you mean the country has a track record of doing what is best for everyone, that's a very self-centered statement. They have had a track record of doing what is best for them and enforcing on others what THEY BELIEVE is best for others. The trouble is, that "Shut up or I'll knock your teeth in" attitude has often been a defining factor of America. People resent that. Trump embodies it. The vitriol that you haven't noticed has been directed towards America as a whole for decades.

You haven't attacked the people, yet. But it is clear from your words that you would as easily tell us to go fuck ourselves directly as you have done indirectly. You might not have tried to victimize an individual, but it is abundantly clear from your statements that you have deliberately taken a tack that - while it could be easily non-hostile and refuse to take shots at others, somehow manages to miss all that and do it anyway - could very easily be translated as "me first, me middle, me last and not only can the rest of you go suck on something unpleasant, but you're at fault for it all in the end as well." It's ridiculous, and you don't get to circumvent the consequences of your words simply by claiming that none of us was the direct target of it all.

You've been discussing from a place of intense dishonesty and I, for one, am not about to let it slide.

Yeah. Yeah, you did. You came to a topic called Trump, in the "Politics, Religion and Other Controversies" board. You came in swinging. You tore down every other country in the world. You claimed to be okay with sacrificing people and claimed that the rest of us were in dire need of someone telling us to shut up or face the threat of physical violence. You deliberately came in seeking political allies in the same sentence as you alienated and put on defensive every other individual already in this thread.

You put down every effort, politician, culture and power in the world, from the UN to the EU, Canada to Sweden to Germany to China. You insinuated yourself and your country as a superior. You took it upon yourself to tell us "our place" in the world and what our worth was as based on how useful we were to you. You used strawmen and ad hominem attacks. You wielded logical fallacy, double standard and accusations born of projection to blame others for the same crimes you were in the process of committing.

If you didn't come here to pick a fight or get political then you, sir, are a natural.

Ugh some of this this was as painful as learning Santa isn't real. >_< :(

But I love my Country. I have to accept when it is in the wrong and only by accepting that a problem exists, can we fix it. And only then when we fix its problems can we become the shining example we once were and always boast ourselves to be.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2546 on: January 02, 2018, 12:49:32 PM »
Blythe: Why was Bernie your guy? Why was Hillary your gal? You can't use the whole - Trump is a liar, he says mean things, he doesn't know what he's doing shtick like others are saying about Trump. If those things matter, they certainly count against Hillary too. Heck, her platform was based around "I deserve to be president because WOMAN!" Nobody deserves (read: is entitled) to be president and being a woman certainly doesn't have anything to do with it. So if those things aren't immediately dismissive of Hillary, why the double standard for Trump? My point is, you seem intelligent and reasonable enough. I'd like to think you have/had intelligent reasoning for it.

You'll note I said I didn't agree with all their views. Generally speaking, I fact-check politicians before I decide who I like and if want to support them. I can't honestly point to a single politician who has had viewpoints I've wholly agreed with. I'd be surprised if anyone could.

I really doubt we are going to agree here. I don't especially feel the conversation has been productive or enlightening either. I'll agree to disagree with you, depart the thread, and leave it at that.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2547 on: January 02, 2018, 03:06:05 PM »
"Call me a bigot, I'll say "No. You're just a dumb asshole who doesn't have a valid argument. You are the weakest link. Goodbye."

This...just screams of complete and total inability to recognize one's own faults or shortcomings. If someone is being called a bigot, there's a reason for it. Self-reflection should be the course that one chooses at that point. Not retaliation.

But, of course, that seems to be a purveying mindset these days. "I'm great and anybody who criticizes me or notices faults in me is nothing but a hater. Later, much!!"

Shakes my head.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2548 on: January 02, 2018, 04:39:27 PM »
Good gods. Where to start?

“Okay. Trump handled the U.N. just fine. You dont get to trash America and then turn around and ask us for help. The reason the vast majority of the world has its freedoms at the end of the day, is due to the United States military. The reason America spends a billion dollars on a fighter jet is because it can afford too. The reason Sweden doesn't is because America footed the bill already.”

America really cannot afford to spend billion of dollars on a fighter jet.. We have an issue with homeless people, we have an issue with how our veterans, we have an issue with people not knowing where their next meal is coming from, we have an issue with healthcare access, we have an issue with people being put into lifetime debt just to go to college. We have an issue with our schools not teaching the blue collar jobs that keep America running (shop, mechanics, etc).

If we had more intelligent people in Congress (and got rid of lobbying by these huge companies), we’d turn our attention on truly making America great again by fixing the issues above and the many, many more waiting in the wings.

Trickle down economics. It doesn’t work no matter how much you try to shove your head in the sand and ignore the many, many, many. MANY pages on the internet that you can search for to see for yourself that economists say it does not work. However, since you seem to not be able to do the search for yourself…..

BAM!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics

You can say trickle down economics works., but facts do not support your belief.  These wealthy people and businesses are not putting the money they do not pay to the government back into the economy.  People gloated about how AT&T said they were giving all of their employees a 1,000$ bonus after the tax plan was signed end of last year. What no one commented on is that, literally, at the same time they were letting employees go.  (  http://www.newsweek.com/christmas-att-layoffs-midwest-bonuses-trump-758391 ). See what they did there?  Yup- that tax break really trickled down didn’t it? Sure smells like piss to me!

Here is another issue.  Just say trickle down economics was to work and all these people getting money BACK from the government instead of paying IN like they should be do put it into creating jobs.  Now you need qualified people for these jobs. This means educated candidates. Right now, going to a four year college (a baccalaureate) will put a young adult into debt 25,290$ for a public in state college & 50,900$ for a private college.  And that is not factoring the interest that compounds Every. Single. Month.

And that debt? That’s cradle to grave baby. There is no getting out from under it. Not even finding yourself suddenly disabled and living on disability. (I worked as a student loan debt collector for two months and know how -that- system works.)

So, now we, theoretically, have these companies creating jobs but getting educated and trained employees is a problem because of how ridiculously expensive it is to go to college.  The people who do get some of these jobs don’t spend the money they make because they’ve learned to hoard their money for the rainy day that is right around the corner.

I hate to break it to you THH. But America is not the glittering star on the stage anymore.  We are behind Europe and Asia when it comes to railway transportation. When it comes to healthcare, we are horribly behind the rest of the world.  The education of our students is woefully behind Europe and Asia. We are not #1 no matter how much you (or the Mango Mussolini) wants to claim we are.

And yes. I am a liberal. I believe that we should be taking care of each other - free healthcare for every citizen, a focus on getting the homeless off the streets, a focus on addressing the mental illness issue in this country, a focus on making sure that every citizen has food, a focus on making sure that education and training is available to every citizen.

As for the idiot in chief. No, I do not like him for the reasons listed above by others.  He is hell bent on wringing every last drop out of the citizens of this country for his own gain and only cares for his bottom line.


Offline Serephino

Re: Trump
« Reply #2549 on: January 02, 2018, 06:19:19 PM »
You don't care if he bullies others because he is not bullying you?  Umm...  I can't remember the exact details, but as the saying goes...  They came for these people, and I said nothing because I am not one of them.  Then they came for group #2.  I still said nothing, because I am not one of them.  So on and so forth.  Then they came for me, and there was no one left to help me. 

So, you see why it's bad to just sit back and let others be taken down?  You may be low on the list, but I'll bet you are on the list, and when the idiot gets to you you're screwed because there won't be anyone left except those that still remain silent because they still aren't you.  Like it or not we are one big global society.  We need to take care of one another.  I am not Hispanic, but when he says Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers I want to stare him straight in the eye and say, "Bitch, shut the fuck up, sit down, and suck on your sippy cup!  The grown ups are talking." 

And that tax cut?  Unless you make a lot of money it isn't lowering your taxes.  At least not permanently.  I guess it lowers the income tax rate, but gets rid of a lot of deductions. 

https://www.thebalance.com/trump-s-tax-plan-how-it-affects-you-4113968

That source gives no opinion, just tells you what the tax plan does, and maybe you should take the time to read it.  It benefits corporations more than anyone.  Trump is helping himself and his big donor friends as usual.  I know it may be difficult to admit, but a lot of people got played hard.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/business/energy-environment/a-bleak-outlook-for-trumps-promises-to-coal-miners.html

He made promises to coal miners, which got him a lot of votes in my home state because our economy was built on coal.  However, as the article states, natural gas is still cheaper, and he's loosening pipeline restrictions.  That's not going to help the coal industry.  I can't find the article now, but I even saw one yesterday that said preventable deaths of coal miners have like doubled since Trump deregulated safety restrictions.  So not only were his promises empty, they voted him in, he doesn't need them anymore, so he doesn't give a shit if the job kills them.