What's in the News? 2.0

[Haibane]

Thank you I found another page where I could read the article. Its shocking. Some people are just broken... :( I mean, its dumb, but I can just about understand some people who don't want the vaccine, but to actively and violently try to stop others receiving it - as is their right - is the sickest kind of wrong.

I just came across a very sad story about a closed Canadian school that was open from 1890 to 1978 and was designed to forcibly educate and assimilate indigenous (North American Indian) children... now a ground-penetrating radar survey of the ground has identified the bodies of 215 children whose deaths may not be recorded, some as young as three... What happened there is so far a mystery but the local police, government and indigenous community leaders are seeking to find who these children were and why they were interred in the school's grounds. Their graves and deaths are undocumented by the school authorities. The school was run by Roman Catholics and therefore I fear the worst.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57291530

[Beorning]

I just came across a very sad story about a closed Canadian school that was open from 1890 to 1978 and was designed to forcibly educate and assimilate indigenous (North American Indian) children... now a ground-penetrating radar survey of the ground has identified the bodies of 215 children whose deaths may not be recorded, some as young as three... What happened there is so far a mystery but the local police, government and indigenous community leaders are seeking to find who these children were and why they were interred in the school's grounds. Their graves and deaths are undocumented by the school authorities. The school was run by Roman Catholics and therefore I fear the worst.

Well, it's not like Protestants fared better when it comes to indigenous populations' rights, Haibane...

But yes, this is a tragic discovery.

BTW. Speaking of vaccines - there's this story that broke last week in France and Germany how some science-related influencers were approached by a PR firm with apparent Russian ties to create fake news regarding Pfizer's vaccine:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/may/25/influencers-say-russia-linked-pr-agency-asked-them-to-disparage-pfizer-vaccine

I don't even know what to say to that...

[Fox Lokison]

Thank you I found another page where I could read the article. Its shocking. Some people are just broken... :( I mean, its dumb, but I can just about understand some people who don't want the vaccine, but to actively and violently try to stop others receiving it - as is their right - is the sickest kind of wrong.

I just came across a very sad story about a closed Canadian school that was open from 1890 to 1978 and was designed to forcibly educate and assimilate indigenous (North American Indian) children... now a ground-penetrating radar survey of the ground has identified the bodies of 215 children whose deaths may not be recorded, some as young as three... What happened there is so far a mystery but the local police, government and indigenous community leaders are seeking to find who these children were and why they were interred in the school's grounds. Their graves and deaths are undocumented by the school authorities. The school was run by Roman Catholics and therefore I fear the worst.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57291530

It honestly wouldn't have mattered who it was run by - if it was a white/European settler school in the Americas, especially North America, the odds are the deaths weren't accidental. There's a reason Natives call that a genocide. Their children were stolen, abused, tortured, and the ones that survived were left scarred. It was a universal thing across the countries. All these groups believed they were saving these children, and that going back to their "savage" ways would be a fate worse than death.

Native Americans have kept some pretty solid records of what they've lost to European colonization - and it's a lot.

It's best to just assume the worst. If you're wrong, thank FUCK. And if you're right, it doesn't hit you as hard to hear that. The genocide of Native Americans is baked into North America's bones. In some places, literally.

[Haibane]

BTW. Speaking of vaccines - there's this story that broke last week in France and Germany how some science-related influencers were approached by a PR firm with apparent Russian ties to create fake news regarding Pfizer's vaccine:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/may/25/influencers-say-russia-linked-pr-agency-asked-them-to-disparage-pfizer-vaccine

I don't even know what to say to that...

I do. We are in a new cold war, an information war and Russia wants to attack the west in any way it can, so leveraging the many fears and doubts people have about western vaccines is a strategy typical for them. And since this would affect lives directly its the sort of sick twisted crap we've learned to see coming frequently from Putin's murderous crowd.

[The Lovely Tsaritsa]

I do. We are in a new cold war, an information war and Russia wants to attack the west in any way it can, so leveraging the many fears and doubts people have about western vaccines is a strategy typical for them. And since this would affect lives directly its the sort of sick twisted crap we've learned to see coming frequently from Putin's murderous crowd.

Not everyone, is the “murderous crowd”.  Things like this, make me very sad, for reading. Russia is “evil empire”, for the west again, it seems.

[Kathadon]

Not everyone, is the “murderous crowd”.  Things like this, make me very sad, for reading. Russia is “evil empire”, for the west again, it seems.

Sadly so, with Russiagate in the main stream news for three years straight, and Putin's record of outright nastiness on the geo-political stage it sure seems that the general opinion in the U.S. and Nato countries is being swung that way again. I rather miss the halcyon days of 2012 when Obama called out Romney for such backwards thinking.

[Saria]

It honestly wouldn't have mattered who it was run by - if it was a white/European settler school in the Americas, especially North America, the odds are the deaths weren't accidental. There's a reason Natives call that a genocide. Their children were stolen, abused, tortured, and the ones that survived were left scarred. It was a universal thing across the countries. All these groups believed they were saving these children, and that going back to their "savage" ways would be a fate worse than death.

Native Americans have kept some pretty solid records of what they've lost to European colonization - and it's a lot.

It's best to just assume the worst. If you're wrong, thank FUCK. And if you're right, it doesn't hit you as hard to hear that. The genocide of Native Americans is baked into North America's bones. In some places, literally.

While it’s true that things would have been bad in any situation with colonial-run schools for indigenous people… things were particularly bad in the case of the Canadian residential school system.

It was a system that was explicitly designed to destroy the identity and cultural uniqueness of Indigenous Canadians. Literally explicitly; that was the express purpose of the system as stated quite openly and proudly by the people who developed it. To say it was bad is an astronomical understatement. It was a genocide. I don’t mean that figuratively or metaphorically. Look, it’s even listed in the Wikipedia sidebar for genocides.

In some of the residential schools, your chance of surviving was worse than 50/50. And burying the dead kids in unmarked holes, then later hiding the evidence, was common practice, as was simply not getting around to telling the parents their kids were dead, or simply lying about it. So I’m entirely unsurprised at this latest mass grave discovery. In fact, every interview I’ve seen with a First Nations spokesperson, they’ve been like, “yeah, *shrug*, must be a day that ends in -y.” That, to me, is the most telling sign of what kind of tragedy this is.

Part of what made the situation so bad was that it was a government bureaucracy farming out the work to religious missionaries. The government was willing to turn a blind eye to the atrocities (that they knew full well were happening) and justify it because, hey, they were religious, so how could they be bad people? Meanwhile the missionaries were beating Jesus into the kids—that’s not a metaphor—and torturing them in various other ways that are uniquely religious in their cruelty, because the idea that suffering is somehow holy is as old as time itself.

That’s what made the residential school system so horrific. Religious fetishization of suffering and a dogmatic belief in the divine justness of their mission to beat the faith into the kids was supported and financed by an indifferent—if not hostile—government bureaucracy. It was a slow moving version of the Holocaust, targeting kids specifically with diphtheria and tuberculosis, rather than Zyklon B.

So, yeah, it really does kinda matter that these schools were run by religious groups. The secular government was (and still is) very good at not giving a shit… but not really great at being outright cruel (though they try!). To get the kind of lurid, almost torture-porn level of cruelty these kids were subjected to… that really required religion.

And yes, the Roman Catholics were easily the worst of the bunch, by every metric. There were four different religious groups—all Christian, of course—but the Catholics ran more than half of the schools, and were responsible for far more than their fair share of the atrocities. It’s been a while since I read the TRC report, but I recall reading that even the bureaucrats of the time were like, “holy shit, the Catholics are doing some fucked up shit to those kids.” (Followed by: “Maybe we should help the kids? Meh, we’ll get around to it eventually.”)

The Roman Catholic Church is also the only group responsible for the genocide that has yet to apologize. All the other three religious groups have. The Canadian government has. I think most of the provinces have. But two Catholic Popes have been asked by two Prime Ministers and numerous First Nations elders to apologize… they’ve refused.

[Tolvo]

Not everyone, is the “murderous crowd”.  Things like this, make me very sad, for reading. Russia is “evil empire”, for the west again, it seems.

I think an important distinction to make would be between the government and it's people. I do not trust the Russian Government(Though I don't trust most governments). But the Russian people are people. I don't trust the US government either and view it as a corrupt empire of domination and colonization of others. But I myself live in the US and know a ton of people who disagree with our government's actions and our laws. Hell I'd say the majority of people I know do.

[Lustful Bride]

I think an important distinction to make would be between the government and it's people. I do not trust the Russian Government(Though I don't trust most governments). But the Russian people are people. I don't trust the US government either and view it as a corrupt empire of domination and colonization of others. But I myself live in the US and know a ton of people who disagree with our government's actions and our laws. Hell I'd say the majority of people I know do.

+1. The Russian people are fine, with a rich and interesting culture, and they deserve to live in peace, comfort, and prosperity. If anything I'd love it if our two nations could be closer allies in the future and make peace. There was once a time when Russia might have joined NATO after the Cold War, and sometimes I wonder if that might have made the world a better place. That being said, its Putin and his cronies and sycophants who I do not trust and who I worry about. Especially after their connection with the talking toupe known as Trump, which directly led to the rise of Right Wing insurgents and racists in the US.

Not saying that the US are saints. We aren't, we do a lot of messed up shit too and our hands are soaked in blood just like everyone else.


Unrelated news to above: Killer Drone hunts human target without being ordered to do so.

I'm still trying to decide if I should compare this to Skynet, or to the TITANS in Eclipse Phase. Either way, I'm going to be watching the skies for those frakking toasters now.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-rogue-killer-drone-hunted-down-a-human-target-without-being-instructed-to-un-report-says/ar-AAKx0JH?ocid=undefined

[TheGlyphstone]

I really do wonder what will happen when Putin dies. He's only 68, so probably has at least 10 or 15 years left in him depending on if the rumors of Parkinson's had any grounds to them. Is there any sign who he'll appoint as a successor?

[Haibane]

Just to make it clear, when I give my opinion that "Russia is evil" that does not mean the entire country nor even any of its ordinary citizens. When I (and anyone else I know who is a reasonable person and is speaking or writing in a political context) says such things we are talking about the current leadership which is especially cruel, heartless, murderous, evil and corrupt. I am not at all ashamed for holding that opinion.

[Oniya]

Please be aware of your phrasing, and remember that being clear in your words prevents a lot of misinterpretation.

[Kathadon]

I really do wonder what will happen when Putin dies. He's only 68, so probably has at least 10 or 15 years left in him depending on if the rumors of Parkinson's had any grounds to them. Is there any sign who he'll appoint as a successor?

Putin is widely expected to take up the position of chairman of the state council once this last term as president is over in 2024. This is a new thing he has rammed through, a presidential advisory board that will be enshrined in the constitution and endowed with ill-defined powers to “determine the main directions of domestic, foreign and socio-economic policy.” This would allow him to to keep a finger on the wheel of state while stepping back from the daily driving. Also the constitutional changes he rammed through will stipulate that any future president must have lived in Russia for 25 years and cannot have held a foreign passport or residency permit. This effectively blocks by law opposition leader Alexei Navalny, who studied at Yale in 2010, from ever getting elected.

And heaven help us all if he picks Sergei Shoigu. After the collapse of the USSR, he took a lead role in keeping rebellious regions in Moscow’s orbit during conflicts in the Caucasus. He seems to be even more "old school" Russian than Putin. He is the only political figure nearly as popular as Putin, but he is 64 and that popularity might be a double edged sword for him. As Putin will want someone that can be controlled and is not independent.

I have also read a number of reports that Putin is appointing former bodyguards to governors. Some of whom are also ex-K.G.B. So maybe that is how he will groom a true successor?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-government-putin-approval/putin-promotes-ex-bodyguard-to-new-cabinet-idUSKCN1IJ1JJ
https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/8922-putin-s-bodyguards-rewarded-with-land-and-power
https://www.economist.com/europe/2019/06/22/the-improbable-careers-of-vladimir-putins-bodyguards

[Beorning]

Not everyone, is the “murderous crowd”.  Things like this, make me very sad, for reading. Russia is “evil empire”, for the west again, it seems.

Noone is saying that all Russians are evil...

As for Russia being seen as "evil empire" again: with all due respect, Putin's government has worked hard to be seen as that. Speaking from the Polish perspective: I remember that, when the Communism ended, there really was a lot of good will toward Russia over here - and Yeltsin seemed to be interested in friendly relations with Poland and other Western countries. It was during that time that Russian authorities apologized for the Katyń massacre (WW2-era mass murder of Polish citizens), for example.But then, Putin came into power and it all changed: Russian government once again embraced the "Soviet Union was amazing and did no wrong" mentality, started acting aggressively internationally, as well as persecuting all of the opposition... Nowadays, we have Russia actively supporting tyrants, attacking neighbouring countries like Georgia and Ukraine, hacking US elections, spreading misinformation on the Internet...

Yes, it's true: other countries have done their share of dirt. But what Russian government is doing is way beyond the average shadiness of UE countries or of the US. So, is there any wonder Russia is being criticized? It's not us falling into the "evil empire" stereotype, it's because Russia is genuinely dangerous and destructive toward other countries.

I know it might be an unpleasant thing to hear for Russians and other people who have emotional ties with Russia. Still, it simply is true: under Putin, Russia became a state that is oppressive toward its citizens and aggressive toward other countries. There's nothing unfair or unbalanced about saying that. Just like there's nothing unfair in saying that North Korea (who, I hear, just admitted to using the freaking *child labour* in their *mining industry*) has rather awful government...

So, yeah, it really does kinda matter that these schools were run by religious groups. The secular government was (and still is) very good at not giving a shit… but not really great at being outright cruel (though they try!). To get the kind of lurid, almost torture-porn level of cruelty these kids were subjected to… that really required religion.

And yes, the Roman Catholics were easily the worst of the bunch, by every metric. There were four different religious groups—all Christian, of course—but the Catholics ran more than half of the schools, and were responsible for far more than their fair share of the atrocities. It’s been a while since I read the TRC report, but I recall reading that even the bureaucrats of the time were like, “holy shit, the Catholics are doing some fucked up shit to those kids.” (Followed by: “Maybe we should help the kids? Meh, we’ll get around to it eventually.”)

The Roman Catholic Church is also the only group responsible for the genocide that has yet to apologize. All the other three religious groups have. The Canadian government has. I think most of the provinces have. But two Catholic Popes have been asked by two Prime Ministers and numerous First Nations elders to apologize… they’ve refused.

Interesting. Where could I read more about it? Especially the Catholic refusal...

Unrelated news to above: Killer Drone hunts human target without being ordered to do so.

I'm still trying to decide if I should compare this to Skynet, or to the TITANS in Eclipse Phase. Either way, I'm going to be watching the skies for those frakking toasters now.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-rogue-killer-drone-hunted-down-a-human-target-without-being-instructed-to-un-report-says/ar-AAKx0JH?ocid=undefined

Ooooh. It has begun     

[Missy]

Please be aware of your phrasing, and remember that being clear in your words prevents a lot of misinterpretation.

I opt for terms such as the "Putin Regime", "Xi Regime", "Kim Regime" etc . . .

[Kathadon]

To my British and EU friends what is your opinion on Sweden withdrawing from seven year long trade treaty talks with the EU? I do see Sweden's point in the EU demands that allow free movement of all EU citizens to their country with allowances being made for them access to Sweden's social security benefits was more than off putting for a trade deal.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/27/switzerland-walks-out-of-seven-year-treaty-talks-with-eu
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1442699/eu-news-switzerland-uk-brexit-financial-services-spt
https://www.cityam.com/landlocked-brexit-switzerland-eu-talks-collapse-as-bern-walks-away-from-e227bn-trade-deal/

Is this good for Britian's own trade treaties going forward post Brexit as some claim? A sign the EU is a paper tiger that is floundering? Or do you feel will all parties be back at the table in a few years with their collective tails between their legs?

[Saria]

Interesting. Where could I read more about it? Especially the Catholic refusal...

Hm, well, if you want to read more about the residential school system, and its atrocities, Canada instituted a Truth and Reconciliation Commission a few years back. Their report is the number one source for accounts of what really happened. (The last residential school was still open when I was alive, in 1996! So this isn’t ancient history.)

The report is here, along with lots of testimony and other evidence that was presented. There is a lot to dive into if you’re curious, but if I recall there are also some pretty decent summaries.

As for the lack of a Catholic apology, I can’t think of a single source that will tell the whole story, because this is something that’s been going on for years. (Like, every time a new atrocity that happened in a Catholic-run residential school is uncovered—most often sexual abuse—people poke the Pope for an apology again.)

I’d forgotten, too, that while multiple Popes have refused to apologize, one of them—Benedict—did “express sorrow”. In other words, not so much “I’m sorry we did that to you”, but more “well, that sucks what happened to ya, eh?”

I think this news report is from the most recent attempt to get the Pope to apologize, from 2018 (this has been going on for like a decade or more now). I expect that with the mass grave now discovered at a former Catholic residential school, we’ll see renewed attempts. I think the article hits all the main points, that like everyone else has apologized (it mentions Canada and the other 3 Christian denominations explicitly).

If you want the Church’s excuse for why the Pope won’t apologize, it basically boils down to, “Hey, I wasn’t the actual nun who did the beatings, or the priest who did the rapings.”

[TheGlyphstone]

Apparently JP2 made some sort of mass general-apology for all the sins the Church had committed over the previous 2 millennia, back in 2000, including those against ethnic groups who had endured "endured "contempt for their cultures and religious traditions". Maybe they think they don't need to apologize again in the specifics? I dunno.

(archived reference: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/mar/13/catholicism.religion )

[The Lovely Tsaritsa]

Please be aware of your phrasing, and remember that being clear in your words prevents a lot of misinterpretation.

Thank you Oniya.

I remove myself, from PROC topics, going forward.

[Saria]

Apparently JP2 made some sort of mass general-apology for all the sins the Church had committed over the previous 2 millennia, back in 2000, including those against ethnic groups who had endured "endured "contempt for their cultures and religious traditions". Maybe they think they don't need to apologize again in the specifics? I dunno.

If I recall, one of the things that really pissed off residential school survivors is that after they asked for an apology and were refused… the Pope then went on to give an apology for the abuses in Church-run facilities in Ireland. That was in 2010.

So a new Pope comes along, and they try for an apology again, and get refused… and then the Pope goes on to give an apology for the abuses the Church rained down on indigenous people in South America. That was in 2015.

So they tried again to get an apology, and, still, nothing doing (that’s where the 2018 article I linked to above comes in, along with the one with Canadian bishops trying to make excuses for why the Pope doesn’t have to apologize).

[TheGlyphstone]

Ah, I see now. Yeah.

[elone]

I don't know where to put this but this is Memorial day.

Take a moment to remember and perhaps shed a tear for those who have fallen so that you could be here.

[Kathadon]

And another cyber attack. This time targeting beef supplies in the U.S. and elsewhere.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/01/tech/jbs-usa-cyberattack-meat-producer/index.html
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/meat-latest-cyber-victim-hackers-214130697.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57318965

Shutting down major supplier chains in the world should have far larger consequences for the criminals. 

[Annaamarth]

What action would you propose? More sanctions against the Russian govt and the russosphere? Cyber response? War?

I feel like this is just the next step in cyberwarfare while different powers feel out what they can get away with.

In the west, there was Stuxnet - a targetted attack with tight precision across an airgapped network.

Contrastly, Russian foreign policy doctrine isn't looking for 'precise-' they're looking for chaos and dissension. Look at Foundations of Geopolitics, which has been a textbook for the Academy of the General Staff, and it reads like the Putin governments playbook - nevermind the fact that it was written by a man who advocates ethnostatism, the demolition and absorption of Ukraine, and has claimed that in order to be free of Americanism the Russian people should free themselves from the demonic sciences of physics and chemistry. Fascinating guy, Dugin.

Anyway, from that perspective the Russian government has very little incentive to crack down on third parties who disrupt western supply chains, and in fact a great deal of motivation to support them if they want to acheive/maintain/improve strategic primacy.

Assume, for the sake of argument, that these attacks, the recent spate of spearphishing, even SolarWinds, were not Russian state-sanctioned attacks. Why should the Russian government make special effort to stop it? It hurts others more than it hurts them.

Russia isn't alone in this, mind you - all of the same rhetoric applies to China, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan and more.

[Kathadon]

Is it 100% confirmed that these are state sanctioned? If not, I do not see why we should sanction Russia over the actions of a criminal syndicate. If however they are, then who knows. Maybe we are on the cusp of a hot cyber-war and the general public are simply being kept in the dark? I hope not.

That said, I am leaning to such international cyber crimes should be handled entirely by Interpol by granting them long overdue arrest powers, and then prosecuted by the ICC. This could in theory keep state actors from simply recruiting such hackers for their own cyber warfare divisions, rather than prosecuting them. Unrealistic as this is, I honestly feel it would be the best solution, than what we currently have.