Coronavirus - are you afraid?

[Dashenka]

I just find it really shocking that you guys seem to find it acceptable to discriminate against certain group of people.

Even more shocking that staff doesn't care...


And even more shocking that when a member of said staff insults somebody, apologies are not needed.


It snows a lot here on Elliquiy.

[Dashenka]

I'm wealthy and more liberal than most and not afraid to give my opinion.


And look at the abuse I'm getting. Good job on the safe atmosphere...

[Lilias]

I just find it really shocking that you guys seem to find it acceptable to discriminate against certain group of people.

What group is being discriminated against?

[Dashenka]

What group is being discriminated against?

I have literally nothing to say to you.

[Lilias]

I have literally nothing to say to you.

Suit yourself.

[TheGlyphstone]

This is genuinely not intended as insulting, but what baseline are you measuring to be 'more liberal' than here? You're the most outspokenly conservative/right-wing person who has any regular presence here in PROC.

[Dashenka]

My point is that the insinuation that the wealthy can and will jump the queue, as possibly suggested by Mechelle but others as well, is insulting. As if being wealthy is something bad or evil or a crime of sorts.

That's all I was saying.

But everytime I have an opinion I get abuse from people on here, because I stand up against such abuse, whether or not it's on purpose or not.


So I'll just sit here on all my money, not caring about anybody else and jumping the queue for a vaccin as soon as I can.



I need a drink.

[Azuresun]

My point is that the insinuation that the wealthy can and will jump the queue, as possibly suggested by Mechelle but others as well, is insulting. As if being wealthy is something bad or evil or a crime of sorts.

That's all I was saying.

The well-off do have a bad rep, but you surely can't deny that reputation is very often (not always, but very often) earned. Right now in the UK, there's a chain of clothes shops collapsing with thousands of jobs at risk.....while the owner is chilling out on a luxury island, golden parachute at the ready. If fewer rich people did stuff like that, maybe people would be less likely to assume the worst about them?

[elone]

I think it is more about fairness than it is about wealth or privilege. When a possibly life saving resource is limited those who can afford to should not be able to take advantage over those who are not. Reminds me of those who paid off their doctors to get a medical deferment to keep them out of Viet Nam and the draft. Trump.

Countries with national health are totally different than the US, which does not. We will see how it plays out and who gets the vaccine and who dies.

[Haibane]

So why is it acceptable to 'discriminate' against those wealthier than one self is?

I wasn't discriminating against anyone, wealthier or not. I was merely pointing out that that this vaccine's release is going to be carefully controlled through the NHS and no-one is going to get it until the supply exceeds the doses needed for a higher vulnerability group. I linked to the BBCs reporting of the roll-out structure and rules so as to point out that there is no discrimination here one way or the other.

You won't be able to buy a dose, nor will anybody else. It isn't for sale. That's not discriminating against anyone. We all take our turn in sequence depending on which vulnerability group we fall into.

I can't say it clearer than that.

[Haibane]

My point is that the insinuation that the wealthy can and will jump the queue, as possibly suggested by Mechelle but others as well, is insulting. As if being wealthy is something bad or evil or a crime of sorts.

I think what happened here was that you completely mis-read what I was saying. The insinuation that the wealthy should be allowed to buy their way forwards in the queue came from you, at least that's how I read it.

[Dashenka]

The well-off do have a bad rep, but you surely can't deny that reputation is very often (not always, but very often) earned. Right now in the UK, there's a chain of clothes shops collapsing with thousands of jobs at risk.....while the owner is chilling out on a luxury island, golden parachute at the ready. If fewer rich people did stuff like that, maybe people would be less likely to assume the worst about them?

So what would you like him to do in this situation? Chill at home?

The economy is broken because of corona. There's very little he can do about it. (I don't know which situation you mean but as you describe it, there's little he can do about it.)


Also, I never assume anything until I knew a person.

Americans have a reputation for being fat and stupid. Most of them aren't.
British have a reputation for having terrible dental health. Most of them haven't.
The Dutch have a reputation for being high on weed all day. Most of them aren't.

I can name a few more but I'm sure you get my point.

[Lilias]

According to this tracker, which I love because it's possible to search the numbers down to city level, the recent lockdown, much as we hate it, has been working. The last couple of days are the first since I discovered it (sometime in the summer) that the colour of the Northwest has lightened up from what London looks like now.

It took a month to reverse two months' worth of uptick, and I hope the Christmas loosening doesn't undo everything again.

[Mechelle]

As my name has been taken in vain a couple of times recently, I will just add that when I said I am pretty sure the wealthy will be able to jump the queue by going privately, that clearly doesn't mean that all wealthy people will do so, but that I expect some vaccine manufacturers will sell it  directly or indirectly to those prepared to pay the price, just as they have sold it to the UK government for the National Health Service. Many wealthy people such as Bill Gates and Dolly Parton have been very philanthropic, not least with her contribution to developing the vaccine. A lot of the hatred directed at rich people comes from right-wing types who aim criticism at liberals, accusing them of being champagne socialists, do-gooders or virtue signalling.

To give credit for Boris Johnson, he has said he would be vaccinated live on television, but only if someone higher up the priority list does not lose out as a result of this (I am not sure  how you would actually work this out) and even refrained from EU bashing today, unlike some of his ministers, who incorrectly said we were able to approve the vaccine so quickly because we are leaving the EU.

[Fox Lokison]

According to this tracker, which I love because it's possible to search the numbers down to city level, the recent lockdown, much as we hate it, has been working. The last couple of days are the first since I discovered it (sometime in the summer) that the colour of the Northwest has lightened up from what London looks like now.

It took a month to reverse two months' worth of uptick, and I hope the Christmas loosening doesn't undo everything again.

What tracker is that? The one google gives you?

New England took a hit over the Thanksgiving holiday... October 31st, 200 cases. December 1st, 772. Our local newspaper reported almost triple the cases daily between the beginning of the month and the end. New Hampshire tipped back into the danger zone, and yet we're still keeping ski areas and other tourist attractions open, just trying to mitigate how many people are in them... Gotta admit, not hopeful. I doubt anyone's gonna follow the two week quarantine just to come up here for a day of skiing.

[Haibane]

Everybody hates lockdowns, but they do work. Mostly because they keep people apart.

[Fox Lokison]

Not to double-post but I thought these might be better separate to spare everyone's eyes...

In terms of wealth and access to the vaccine, we're already seeing issues.

Wealthy nations representing just 13 percent of the world’s population have already cornered more than half (51 percent) of the promised doses of leading COVID-19 vaccine candidates, Oxfam warned today as the health and finance ministers of G20 countries meet to discuss the global pandemic.

The international agency also warned that the same companies simply do not have the capacity to make enough vaccines for everyone who needs one. Even in the extremely unlikely event that all five vaccines succeed, nearly two thirds (61 percent) of the world’s population will not have a vaccine until at least 2022. It’s far more likely some of these experiments will fail, leaving the number of people without access even higher.

Source

“It is great news that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is proving effective against COVID-19. However, it’s worrying that Pfizer-BioNTech has already struck deals with rich countries for more than a billion doses of its vaccine, leaving less than a quarter of its projected supply for the rest of the world. These kinds of bilateral deals risk undermining the potential benefits of scientific breakthroughs; Big Pharma profits must not be prioritized over the health of billions.

‘Pfizer-BioNTech must urgently clarify how it will maximize vaccine access in low- and middle-income countries to save lives. It should also share its vaccine technology with other manufacturers via the WHO’s COVID-19 Technology Access Pool, so that the billions of vaccines we need can be produced as quickly and cheaply as possible. The pandemic will not be over until it is over for everyone.’

Source

Countries that don't have the infastructure to slow the spread of the virus, provide for their citizens, or provide healthcare are now screwed even further. The discussion around misuse of wealth does not spring out of nowhere. Increasing income inequality isn't just between citizen and citizen, but nation and nation. A criticism of the potential abuse of wealth and power isn't one that's just rooted in hatred of the wealthy. Wealth allows you to break the rules that bind everyone else.

It's not all that outlandish to worry that people who hold insane amounts of money and whose GDPs outstrip entire countries could misuse this wealth, as well as people who can pay for access to a vaccine others have to wait in line for. Money talks, and all.

[Beguile's Mistress]

https://vimeo.com/480649729

A visualization of COVID-19 deaths in the USA - March to November, 2020

A sphere represents a person.

Each second represents 6 days.

There were over 230,000 deaths.

[Callie Del Noire]

https://vimeo.com/480649729

A visualization of COVID-19 deaths in the USA - March to November, 2020

A sphere represents a person.

Each second represents 6 days.

There were over 230,000 deaths.

I need a drink now...

[Dashenka]

Without going into too much details...


I overreacted a bit yesterday. I have my reasons by I shouldn't take that out on you guys. So.. Apologies if I offended you.

[elone]

I don't think it was an over reaction, just the reaction of those who have the ability to move on ahead of others.

So what would you like him to do in this situation? Chill at home?

Yes, a billionaire could at least help his people, after all, they are thio ones who put him there, as well as a lofty inheritance.

[Dashenka]

Yes, a billionaire could at least help his people, after all, they are thio ones who put him there, as well as a lofty inheritance.

But by pumping his money into a sinking ship, he too will loose it all. Instead, he could cut his losses, sit it out like everbody else and when it all settles down, start a new business and hire all those people back. When he gives everything away, he will be unemployed like all his former employees. Who is he doing a favour with that?

There is no need to flaunt on a paradise island but then again, if he has the private funding to do so, it is his choice and right to do so.

[Azuresun]

So what would you like him to do in this situation? Chill at home?

The economy is broken because of corona. There's very little he can do about it. (I don't know which situation you mean but as you describe it, there's little he can do about it.)

Share a bit of the wealth, maybe?

Look, people who worked for their money should be allowed to enjoy it. But past a certain point, it gets absurd.  What can you possibly do with a billion dollars that you couldn't do with 100m dollars? All your survival needs are taken care of many times over, you can enjoy pretty much every leisure activity out there, you have won the game of life. But so often, we see the super-rich grasping for more and more and dodging taxes when there's simply no reason for why they need to do so. That's the point where I feel very okay judging and stereotyping.

[Dashenka]

Share a bit of the wealth, maybe?

Look, people who worked for their money should be allowed to enjoy it. But past a certain point, it gets absurd.  What can you possibly do with a billion dollars that you couldn't do with 100m dollars? All your survival needs are taken care of many times over, you can enjoy pretty much every leisure activity out there, you have won the game of life. But so often, we see the super-rich grasping for more and more and dodging taxes when there's simply no reason for why they need to do so. That's the point where I feel very okay judging and stereotyping.

I'm not going into detail as to how much rubbish the 'winning life' is...

As for what you can do with a billion dollars that you cannot do with 100 million dollars. It's really simple.

Employ more people. Pay more people's wages. Get a bigger company to make a change in the world.


There's a very nice quote from back in the olden days.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Would you rather the businessman gave all his staff 1000 dollars right now just for once? Or make sure he can pay them a monthly wage for the years to come.

[blue bunny sparkle]

There's a very nice quote from back in the olden days.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Would you rather the businessman gave all his staff 1000 dollars right now just for once? Or make sure he can pay them a monthly wage for the years to come.

I think if the employee could not feed his family that week, or was unable to pay his rent and faced eviction, then he would gladly take the $1000 right now and deal with the future at a later time.

P.S.  I thought your apology was a nice thing to do.