Coronavirus - are you afraid?

[Beguile's Mistress]

Not sure if the confidence in the vaccin is false. I mean I'm pretty sure the vaccin works, otherwise it wouldn't be out yet. (Yes I am THAT naive)


It's just that the vaccin doesn't cure it. That's what I think a lot of people mix up. They think when they get corona, they'll get a vaccin and then they'll be better. This has to be communicated to people who are... less well off in the brains department so that they too respect the lockdowns. If they are doing that right now.

The vaccine isn't a cure for the virus once you catch it.  It is a preventative measure like the childhood vaccinations you get for measles and mumps as a kid or the yearly flu vaccination.  It fools your system into thinking you have been exposed to the virus so you build anti-bodies that will protect you if you become exposed later.  Testing during treatment looks for those anti-bodies after the vaccine has been administered.

[Mechelle]

Lots of very fair comment above.

The Pfizer vaccine has now been approved for use in Canada, but, on the other hand, people with a history of allergies have been advised not to take it  in Britain, after two NHS staff who were vaccinated yesterday experienced allergic reactions. They have recovered.

[Haibane]

I read that article and apparently its is common in vaccines to have a reaction from people with allergies and the rate is about 1 in 1000 which is the rate with the Pfizer vaccine. The reaction was quite mild and easily treated. I would not suggest people with allergy reaction concerns should not take the vaccine.

[Oniya]

One of the reasons for mass vaccinations is to protect those people who have medical reasons for not taking the vaccine - allergies to eggs is a common one (since chicken eggs are commonly used in the production of vaccines).  It would be helpful if the scientists determined what the actual allergen at issue is, since people have varying degrees of sensitivity, from 'Yeah, eggs give me a rash' to 'Throat closed, can't breathe'.

[TheGrandAdmiral]

I need to stop reading the comments under news articles on Facebook. This whole pandemic has brought out a lot of ugliness. I am tired of the endless and pointless bickering between the people who believe that this is nothing more than a simple flu and the others who think that we are all gonna die (though technically that is true, but for other reasons).

An acquaintance of mine goes around news pages and wherever he sees an article about the vaccine writes that he won't be getting vaccinated, how it is all a hoax and so on. Well I guess that is his choice, but whenever someone has a different opinion then he starts to insult people how they are sheeple and idiots and so on. It is disgusting and tiring.

I am sorry for the vent...

[Beguile's Mistress]

I understand how you feel.  I avoid Facebook pages like that like the plague!  I avoid the politics, too, anything 45 related.  In fact, this is the only place I read and talk about 45.  I work with a man who thinks C19 is a hoax or at least has been exaggerated out of proportion even though his grandfather came down with the virus and died a couple months ago.  I don't understand that attitude and it makes me ill.

[TheVillain]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't like thinking this way, but it really does look more and more like the USA is not going to get CoVID-19 under control until it kills a few million Trump fans.

[Missy]

do I sound cold for saying everyone's still subject to natural selection?

Stupids gonna be stupid.

[Fox Lokison]

I mean, if you live in an age of information, where it's broadcasted right to your home and the palm of your hand, and refuse to accept it because you dont like it, refuse to accept it could even be real, and believe only the words of one man and his cronies, whom you look up to as your leader....

At that point you're BEGGING natural selection to come smite you.

Don't believe they deserve it, but also, dont think tugging the tails of tigers is a good hobby, myself.

[TheHangedOne]

I mean, if you live in an age of information, where it's broadcasted right to your home and the palm of your hand, and refuse to accept it because you dont like it, refuse to accept it could even be real, and believe only the words of one man and his cronies, whom you look up to as your leader....

At that point you're BEGGING natural selection to come smite you.

Don't believe they deserve it, but also, dont think tugging the tails of tigers is a good hobby, myself.

Tigers, being perhaps the most singularly, systematically vengeful entities in the wild, should never have their tails tugged.

It's like that news story I read earlier in the year; about how some lions came upon some poachers, and devoured them. I was more worried about the lions than the poachers.

[LostInTheMist]

The problem with not taking the vaccine is that you're putting more than just yourself at risk by not getting vaccinated. If it were just you, I wouldn't care; you'll be getting a lesson in evolution pretty soon. But the vaccine is not going to be 100% effective. No vaccine is. So the vaccinated person has a 5% chance of catching it from exposure to infected people.

Do the math, and roughly 90% of people need to be immune (either through vaccine or having caught it before) before transmission rates are low enough that the disease dies out.

If you've got severe allergies that make the vaccine unsafe, that's one thing. But if you're a conspiracy theorist who believes the vaccine is mind control or will make your child autistic or whatever ridiculous asinine thing you believe, your ignorance is putting us all at risk.

[Haibane]

Yes. This is the whole dangerous and stupid point of the anti-vaxx conspiracy. It is because of this that measles is once again a thing in the UK, having been declared measles-free by the WHO in 2016 the UK lost that designation again in 2019 wholly due to a minority of parents not getting their babies inoculated with the measels-mumps-rubella jab (MMR).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49394170

In a democracy you cannot make vaccinations compulsory but we must educate people more effectively and police the spread of conspiracy theories online. In that regard, and in a somewhat related subject, I am very much in favour of the big social media companies deleting accounts, articles and videos related to US voting fraud. The QAnon and anti-vax nonsense should likewise be tackled.

[LostInTheMist]

Yes. This is the whole dangerous and stupid point of the anti-vaxx conspiracy. It is because of this that measles is once again a thing in the UK, having been declared measles-free by the WHO in 2016 the UK lost that designation again in 2019 wholly due to a minority of parents not getting their babies inoculated with the measels-mumps-rubella jab (MMR).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49394170

In a democracy you cannot make vaccinations compulsory but we must educate people more effectively and police the spread of conspiracy theories online. In that regard, and in a somewhat related subject, I am very much in favour of the big social media companies deleting accounts, articles and videos related to US voting fraud. The QAnon and anti-vax nonsense should likewise be tackled.

People argue about freedom of speech, but there are limits to it, even in the U.S. where it is enshrined in our constitution.

You aren't allowed to use speech to put other people in danger. The usual example of dangerous speech is shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater (when there isn't really a fire), but there are other dangerous speech examples. Anti vax is one of them. It threatens thousands at the very least. Thank God we eradicated smallpox before refusing to vaccinate your children became a thing.

You're also not allowed to incite people to violence. The Qanon thing has incited people to violence, even if the violent ones are (for now) a fringe minority, and has stated blatantly false things as fact.

Trump is in a dangerous position because he is an authority figure and he makes daily insane false accusations of voter fraud and (more chillingly) keeps talking about remaining in office while getting rid of members of the military-industrial complex he sees as disloyal.

I can claim that I eat a hundred raw eggs a day, which is clearly a lie, but I have no power. Even if I tell everyone to eat a hundred raw eggs a day, most people aren't going to go out and do it. If Trump tells people to eat a hundred raw eggs a day, that puts people in danger. (Of salmonella for sure and heart attacks probably.) If you have the power to influence a group, particularly the power to influence a large group, you should be more careful about your speech, because you have a much greater chance of putting people in danger or inciting them to something than you would otherwise.

[LostInTheMist]

Oops. Meant to add. Even if you don't have a legal responsibility to watch what you say if you're influential, you have a moral responsibility to do so. That's why putting a narcissist without morality in charge of the country was an insane idea.

[Lilias]

[Dhi]

I understand that the graphic is meant to be a reality check, but what I'm seeing is an unsuitable metric which is no longer helpful to anyone. Hawaii's yellow is apparently a 7 in 100,000 infection rate, which has not been relevant since March. All of this has been burgundy since March.

[Azuresun]

I need to stop reading the comments under news articles on Facebook. This whole pandemic has brought out a lot of ugliness. I am tired of the endless and pointless bickering between the people who believe that this is nothing more than a simple flu and the others who think that we are all gonna die (though technically that is true, but for other reasons).

An acquaintance of mine goes around news pages and wherever he sees an article about the vaccine writes that he won't be getting vaccinated, how it is all a hoax and so on. Well I guess that is his choice, but whenever someone has a different opinion then he starts to insult people how they are sheeple and idiots and so on. It is disgusting and tiring.

I am sorry for the vent...

Of course, the problem is that if sensible people don't go there, the anti-vaxxers never get called out on their nonsense and dominate the airwaves through tireless copy-pasting of slogans (or just being spambots). They've mastered the short, snappy "Would you maybe like to know more?" pitch for their propaganda, making it catchy and easy to spam--we need to be doing the same sort of thing to debunk them.

[Haibane]

Debunking is always many orders of magnitude more difficult because you have to explain things. Just giving links to places that explain things is a waste of time since the conspiracy people simply won't even go there. Why would they when its "fake news pedalled by the lizardmen"?

[Fox Lokison]

I stick to one of my favorite quotes about misinformation. "It takes six seconds to tweet out [misinformation], and tons of research and four minutes of speaking time and 4000 characters to explain why that's very much not what happened."

( Source at the right time code)

[Oniya]

I stick to one of my favorite quotes about misinformation. "It takes six seconds to tweet out [misinformation], and tons of research and four minutes of speaking time and 4000 characters to explain why that's very much not what happened."

( Source at the right time code)

Besides, as the vilest Writer has his Readers, so the greatest Liar has his Believers; and it often happens, that if a Lie be believ’d only for an Hour, it has done its Work, and there is no farther occasion for it. Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it; so that when Men come to be undeceiv’d, it is too late; the Jest is over, and the Tale has had its Effect…

- Jonathan Swift 'The Examiner', 1710.

[Azuresun]

Debunking is always many orders of magnitude more difficult because you have to explain things. Just giving links to places that explain things is a waste of time since the conspiracy people simply won't even go there. Why would they when its "fake news pedalled by the lizardmen"?

Who cares about persuading the conspiracy nuts themselves? The important thing is to not let them go unchallenged, so their beliefs don't ooze into the mainstream and undecided people don't develop a vague idea of "Well, they say those things are bad for you....".

[Oniya]

The debunking is for the people who are undecided.  You need to make the correct information just as (if not more) accessible and digestible as the conspiracy, because the undecided are just as likely to say 'TL;DR' to a link-out as a conspiracy theorist is to say 'FAKE NEWS' to it.

[Azuresun]

The debunking is for the people who are undecided.  You need to make the correct information just as (if not more) accessible and digestible as the conspiracy, because the undecided are just as likely to say 'TL;DR' to a link-out as a conspiracy theorist is to say 'FAKE NEWS' to it.

And it's not that hard. My go-to arguments are to list the diseases we don't fear nowadays because of vaccination, liberally quote "What is presented without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.", and debunk the sillier stuff ("Bill Gates is using it to alter your DNA! Three nurses in England DIED after being given the vaccine!") with some light mockery on the side. Just drop the counterweight and move on, and make sure that any third party is not just seeing the anti-vaxxer propaganda.

[Beguile's Mistress]

When you have been dealing with health issues like have for years now, serious ones that are life threatening, and you are used to the testing that goes on before new medications become available for public use, these vaccines are a little scary.  They came so fast and no amount of logic can convince me to overlook the situation.  I've checked with all of my doctors, six of them at a minimum) and their advice is I should take the vaccine when it becomes available to me.  I get a flu shot every year and never have a reaction, not even a sore spot at the injection site.

I'm still on the fence but I think when they approach me with the needle I'll just nod then grin and bear it with fingers crossed.

[Missy]

I like to think a little anxiety is a healthy thing, you can just imagine the trouble we'd get into if we never worried about anything, ever. I think think it takes a lot of wisdom to balance that out with the necessary reason to grin and bear something important even when it's a little scary.