Trump

Started by Vekseid, February 01, 2017, 02:59:22 AM

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Haibane

I hope that after Trump becomes vanilla citizen Trump a lot of legal trouble will come his way. The problem is that his cult will just view this as the lizard paedophiles just wrecking him which won't stop them wanting to vote for him again.

Missy

That's why there needs to be another impeachement, we'll see if that happens after tomorrow though.

In any case, if he alternatively is allowed to run again, I don't think it will be in the best interest of the red party.

Haibane

Perhaps some of them will see sense and realise while he might be popular within certain circles and can get votes, he isn't a positive influence for the party's future.

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Haibane on January 04, 2021, 11:15:59 AM
Perhaps some of them will see sense and realise while he might be popular within certain circles and can get votes, he isn't a positive influence for the party's future.

Unless your definition of a positive influence begins and ends at 'can get votes'. If all they want is to keep in power, though...

legomaster00156

None of us are even surprised.

Beguile's Mistress

I just keep thinking about how pathetic 45 has become.

Beorning

I'm curious: what are the reactions in the US concerning Trump's conversation with Raffensperger? Any comments on the conservative / Republican side that, maybe, this is really worrying? Also, any sign of Trump's followers growing more critical of him?

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Beorning on January 04, 2021, 12:23:15 PM
I'm curious: what are the reactions in the US concerning Trump's conversation with Raffensperger? Any comments on the conservative / Republican side that, maybe, this is really worrying? Also, any sign of Trump's followers growing more critical of him?

Some conservatives folks are very angry but 11 GOP senators, including Ted Cruz, were quite clear that law, honor and country before party are irrelevant to them. So, speaking as a RINO republican... I’d say that anyone who isn’t an outright Trumpist or opportunistic tool is angry and the MAGA crowd are okay with treason/sedition or whatever as long as the Cheeto in Chief is in charge when the bodies are cooling in the streets.

Andol

Quote from: Haibane on January 04, 2021, 06:52:23 AM
Many many Europeans, ordinary people as well as politicians, consider the USA to be a joke right now, in terms of politics, global power/ability and in terms of respect to climate change. Isolationism didn't work as a policy in the 1930s (in Europe as well as in the USA) and that was before globally integrated comms and trade. It doesn't work in spades now, yet Trump has pursued it to a point where the damage is immense.

Millions of deaths and much suffering is one thing you can quite easily measure, but the harm Trump has done is of a completely different form and we cannot know for some years how bad it is or how lasting its effects will be.

The republican base and how they treated the climate change problem isn't something that is new to Trump, so I don't see specifically what you are talking about their.

Also I wouldn't call what Trump did to be completely Isolationist, but simply that moves were made to prop up Asian Allies like Japan, Twiawn, and India over Europe who in a lot of ways I could agree that they need to be fitting more and more of their own portion to defend Europe.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-44717074

I would say that the damage you speak of that Trump has done was a long time coming, especially given the ground swell of emotional frustration that got him elected in the first place. People being tried of the old and simply electing him because oh yeah... this sounds like something new. But to that end... I also think that once he is out of office and Biden is in... it is going to be back to business as usual with the more steady yet normal type of presidency.




Beorning

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on January 04, 2021, 12:32:16 PM
Some conservatives folks are very angry but 11 GOP senators, including Ted Cruz, were quite clear that law, honor and country before party are irrelevant to them.

Any specific comments you could cite / link to? I'm honestly curious.

Skynet

Quote from: Andol on January 04, 2021, 03:07:32 PM
The republican base and how they treated the climate change problem isn't something that is new to Trump, so I don't see specifically what you are talking about their.

Also I wouldn't call what Trump did to be completely Isolationist, but simply that moves were made to prop up Asian Allies like Japan, Twiawn, and India over Europe who in a lot of ways I could agree that they need to be fitting more and more of their own portion to defend Europe.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-44717074

I would say that the damage you speak of that Trump has done was a long time coming, especially given the ground swell of emotional frustration that got him elected in the first place. People being tried of the old and simply electing him because oh yeah... this sounds like something new. But to that end... I also think that once he is out of office and Biden is in... it is going to be back to business as usual with the more steady yet normal type of presidency.

Source on Trump's foreign policy being good for Asia? Your article only mentions Europe, although it mentioned there being significant numbers in Japan and South Korea.

Beyond trying to pull out of KORUS which would've been apocalyptic for South Korea which I cited earlier, Trump's policies haven't been good with Japan either in terms of foreign aid. Like with South Korea he was upset about the cost of overseas ventures, and wanted to pay less and for Japan to pay more. Also hasn't been good for trade with automobile tariffs.

And that's not mentioning him being buddy-buddy with Duterte, the president of the Phillipines who compared himself to Hitler in regards to wanting a violent purge of drug addicts.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/11/03/japan-worries-about-four-more-years-of-trump-and-about-a-biden-presidency/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/12/05/tokyo-abe-japan-regrets-trusting-trump-on-trade/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/williampesek/2020/07/17/japans-22-trillion-cost-of-befriending-donald-trump/?sh=4335074ccee8
https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/30/asia/duterte-hitler-comparison/index.html


Haibane

Quote from: Andol on January 04, 2021, 03:07:32 PM
The republican base and how they treated the climate change problem isn't something that is new to Trump, so I don't see specifically what you are talking about their.
Paris accord.

Quote from: Andol on January 04, 2021, 03:07:32 PMAlso I wouldn't call what Trump did to be completely Isolationist.

I didn't use the word "completely" but his actions in Europe are isolationist, he is also not a fan of NATO.

Quote from: Andol on January 04, 2021, 03:07:32 PM
I would say that the damage you speak of that Trump has done was a long time coming.

You're joking I assume. He has specifically and personally done huge damage to the simple structure of democracy itself. He did it yesterday in his telephone call to Raffensperger. He did it last week with his outrageous pardons of criminals who supported him in their crimes. None of this has been "a long time coming" these are acts specifically by him and are a feature of his corrupt and dysfunctional presidency.

Laughing Hyena

Well in about 16 more days time that presidency end and the United States can start working on cleaning up this mess. It'll take some time to patch all this and detox the brainwashed loved ones that weren't killed in the pandemic, but it will get done.

Oniya

I literally had to stop a family member yesterday when she said 'The reason I like Trump is because he kept his promises.'  I stared at her in disbelief and stated quite bluntly 'No, he hasn't.  There are lists of his unkept promises.'  She backed off with 'I don't keep up with the news, so I guess I shouldn't try to debate it.'

Durn tootin'.

If it weren't for the fact that Mr. Oniya was asleep, I would have launched into a tag-team flurry of examples with Little Oni waiting at the ropes.  (she was just as flabbergasted as I was.)
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
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Andol

Quote from: Haibane on January 04, 2021, 08:32:13 PM
Paris accord.

I didn't use the word "completely" but his actions in Europe are isolationist, he is also not a fan of NATO.

You're joking I assume. He has specifically and personally done huge damage to the simple structure of democracy itself. He did it yesterday in his telephone call to Raffensperger. He did it last week with his outrageous pardons of criminals who supported him in their crimes. None of this has been "a long time coming" these are acts specifically by him and are a feature of his corrupt and dysfunctional presidency.

Yes he did that with the Paris accord, but I am just saying that to pretend the Republican's haven't been doing so well with climate change is kind of silly.

Yeah... and you say that like it is a bad thing. I have never been a big fan of 21st century NATO myself... given that the other countries involved need to pay more in.

Less joking and that I guess I didn't say what I was trying to properly which is fine. I will drop the point on that matter. Also when I spoke of 'long time coming' you missed the point in that he got elected because of people where thinking with emotions at the time and getting tired of Washington and not closely examining the facts.

Also Skynet do understand Japans current build up and moves have been going on since the Obama administration, given they felt like they would have to have there own power projection to protect themselves. As for India and American relations those were strengthened, but luckily I can see Biden keeping that tie strong as well.

(Sorry I never seem to show many sources Skynet... just really started to study the geopolitical stuff through a channel I like to follow called The Frustrated Indian Global... which frames a lot of things from India's perspective. I have just never been sure how to transfer the information I see and get there and that they site into my post. :( ) 




Oniya

Quote from: Andol on January 04, 2021, 10:27:56 PM
(Sorry I never seem to show many sources Skynet... just really started to study the geopolitical stuff through a channel I like to follow called The Frustrated Indian Global... which frames a lot of things from India's perspective. I have just never been sure how to transfer the information I see and get there and that they site into my post. :( )

You could link the channel/video when you refer to it.  If you use the [url=link here]name of video[/url] format, it should make it a link as opposed to an embedded video.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! (Oct 31) - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up! Requests closed

Haibane

Quote from: Andol on January 04, 2021, 10:27:56 PM
to pretend the Republican's haven't been doing so well with climate change is kind of silly.

Well I could also mention coal, oil, fracking... Have you any sources to back up any non anti-climate change attitudes or policies under Trump? This conversation is about Trump's presidency, not previous administrations. Without evidence your suggestion itself is just opinion which the facts don't bear out.

Stepping out of the Paris Accord is the #1 biggest move against climate change recognition that a national leader could make. It says "we don't care how much carbon we pump out now and we don't have any plans to reduce those emissions in the future". Its a huge "fuck-you, I'm all right Jack" to our planet. Its an outrageous insult to 7 billion people.

Your replies don't address any of the other issues I raised such as the pardoning of serious criminals who supported him while leaving those who testified against him in prison. The support and condoning of white-supremacist groups, the ICE which has become far worse under Trump and is about as bad for human rights as what Trump claims is happening in China. The use (abuse) of Federal agents to bundle protesters off the streets into unmarked vans. That kind of shit happens in Belarus for God's sake.

Xenophobia, the Mexican wall, all the lies and corruption.

Bush caused international damage. Trump has overseen damage in scope that is international, domestic, social and political.

You say you can't provide sources to back up your points but you have the entire internet at your fingertips and you should be able to offer credible sources with 5 or 10 minutes effort, the fact you don't really sums up how serious your arguments are.


Aiden

I am following Georgia's run-off. Nothing would make me happier than to see Trump's term end with the house and senate flipping.

He has a red house and senate and managed to ballon debt and make America a fucking joke.

Fuck Trump and his cult.

Beorning

I just read that Trump might be planning on ignoring Biden's inaguration and hiding in Scotland on his golf course...

If so, this would yet another pathetic maneuver on his part. On the other hand, it'd better than barricading in the Oval Office, so...

legomaster00156

Quote from: Beorning on January 05, 2021, 03:43:40 PM
I just read that Trump might be planning on ignoring Biden's inaguration and hiding in Scotland on his golf course...

If so, this would yet another pathetic maneuver on his part. On the other hand, it'd better than barricading in the Oval Office, so...
Scotland can keep him.


Beorning

Quote from: legomaster00156 on January 05, 2021, 03:44:29 PM
Scotland can keep him.

Apparently, Scotland doesn't want him  ;D Scotland's PM Sturgeon said they won't be letting him in due to pandemic restrictions...

HairyHeretic

Quote from: legomaster00156 on January 05, 2021, 03:44:29 PM
Scotland can keep him.

Scotland doesn't want him.

I saw a news story from (I think) Scotlands first minister who said that coming to Scotland to play golf wasn't deemed essential travel, so they wouldn't be letting him do that (or something along those lines).
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