Trump

[gaggedLouise]

The 'secession' talk is getting a lot of derision.  Most of the people talking in favor of it are in states that are dependent on a lot of federal aid - that they'd lose if they seceded from the Union.  There's also the amusing aspect that poor spelling leads a lot of them to be making posts in favor of 'succession' - which has a glorious irony to it.

I saw a guy on a political forum over here in Sweden opining that "now that SCOUTS have thrown out the Texas lawsuit they have shown how useless they are, and how little they care about the constitution". Fatal typo there.

[Haibane]

This made me chuckle (as reported by the BBC):

The chairman of the Republican Party in Texas, Allen West, said the court's decision [to reject the Texas lawsuit] would have "far-reaching ramifications for the future of our constitutional republic".

"Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution."

The bit that made me smile I have put in bold. I am pretty sure that there already is a union of states that abide by the constitution and has been since the 1770s, all except for one small blip 90 years after that.

[TheVillain]

One thing we've noticed in the states is that most of the time our "Most Dedicated Defenders of the Constitution" show no signs of ever having actually read the fucking thing.

[Regina Minx]

"Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution."

I wonder if this new union of states will have a judiciary with a constitutional threshold of standing.

[Haibane]

[Oniya]

This made me chuckle (as reported by the BBC):

The chairman of the Republican Party in Texas, Allen West, said the court's decision [to reject the Texas lawsuit] would have "far-reaching ramifications for the future of our constitutional republic".

"Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution."

The bit that made me smile I have put in bold. I am pretty sure that there already is a union of states that abide by the constitution and has been since the 1770s, all except for one small blip 90 years after that.

A Civil War historian that I follow is tweeting things like 'You tried that already!  Didn't work out so good for you that time, either!'

[Chaeronea]

Oh, last time the South did have sizable economic strength - just that it was all wrapped up in agricultural pre-industrial methods that had exploitable weaknesses.

Now they have no economic strength to speak of.

Talking of Southern lack of economic strength and the Texas lawsuit, how big a deal is the Texas oil industry for the US economy? Also Oklahoma's supposed to be fairly big in oil from what I remember, so did they sign on to the Texas lawsuit?

[TheVillain]

I was simplifying things a bit, but while Biden only got about in every 6 counties in the US the counties he did take represent about 7/10ths the GDP and about 55% of the Population.

Texas is pretty much the only Red State that puts up even “Meh” economic numbers. Meanwhile California and New York are the world’s 5th and 11th biggest economies by themselves IIRC.

[Deamonbane]

Talking of Southern lack of economic strength and the Texas lawsuit, how big a deal is the Texas oil industry for the US economy? Also Oklahoma's supposed to be fairly big in oil from what I remember, so did they sign on to the Texas lawsuit?

The bigger question might be how reliant are the economies of Texas and Oklahoma on the larger urban areas that import their oil?

[Missy]

Hey did I hear some of you people say something about Voter Fraud?

[gaggedLouise]

[Haibane]

Talking of Southern lack of economic strength and the Texas lawsuit, how big a deal is the Texas oil industry for the US economy? Also Oklahoma's supposed to be fairly big in oil from what I remember, so did they sign on to the Texas lawsuit?

In 50 years oil is going to be almost meaningless as a fuel. It may still have uses for other products such as cosmetics, plastics and lubricants although its possible those industries will switch to man-made synthetics before then. If there is a fossil fuel impact as a result of political action it could well promote faster switching to renewable energy, so perhaps 20-30 years. Likewise coal, though that isn't so relevant in this discussion.

The USA gets a fair amount of its oil from Alaska now as well.

[TheVillain]

Hey did I hear some of you people say something about Voter Fraud?

Oh, that’s been pointed out. We have indeed found *some* fake votes. Just not nearly as many as Trump claims and of the ones we have found something like 95% of them have been *FOR* Trump.

[Haibane]

I found this a troubling read, but felt I was mostly in agreement.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/01/the-legacy-of-donald-trump/617255/

[TheGlyphstone]

Hey did I hear some of you people say something about Voter Fraud?

"Cmon, officer! The dead body and packages of cocaine in the trunk of my car are just a joke! Why can't you lighten up and grow a sense of humor, I'm just drawing attention to the grave problems of murder and drug trafficking in our country!"

[Missy]

. . . 95% of them have been *FOR* Trump.

Which is the joke I was trying to make.

[Missy]

[Haibane]

A somewhat slanted poll, as polls go!

The words "an illegitimate" seem to have crept into the first question. Not sure why. 

[Missy]

I am going to be honest that if that is the case with the Republican party, then it is the same with the Democrat party. Both are just as corrupt, but the only difference is that the Republican's have the 'boogie-man' of the hour as their figurehead until Biden is sworn into office. 

Okay so on this your right-wrong, politicians are politicians and like anything it's a job. Noone should be so naive as to seriously assume the average politician is going to rise above a certain level completely on their own; but you really just went and made the opposite mistake here, I mean if naivete is falling into a frozen lake cynicism is going for a swim in boiling water.

I don't doubt that it's possible for Democrats to do some sickly amoral things, but frankly if you haven't evidence of it then you've crossed the line over innocent until proven guilty already.

Based on what I have seen, both during the election itself and now... more and more Republican's are jumping ship from the Trump fan club since they see no political viability in kissing up to him or pretending to go along with the crap he says. In fact a lot of Trump supporters on Youtube complained how they seemed to have threw Trump under the bus on the sly during the election. It could very well been a sneaky method of getting rid of him given his so called 'outsider' status in the political realm.   

So you expect the Trumpophants will shortly forget and go back to bussiness as usual in short order, quickly enough to forget Trumps ire by the time of the Georgia runoffs?

Like I said I don't really know to be certain, I have a hunch, one I happen to be very confident in, even so if you were to critique my hunch as being in part a hope bias, you would likely be on the nose of it. So let's hope I'm right on this one.


[qupte]Eh... I think that Ben Shapiro would be a way better example than Jordan Peterson. Given that Jordan really just made the mistake of not apologizing for one thing he said and refusing to bend the knee over it. Beyond that he is just a mild manner self help guy from all the talks I've seen. Plus we can't forgot the crazy meme man Alex Jones...

I would concur Alex Jones and Ben Shapiro are stronger more obvious examples of political ideologues, however I feel you've missed my point. Division spurred on by rightism (and by that I mean not the healthy kind of right-leaning philosiphy) is a global phenomenon, sure it's not exactly the same everywhere, Marie LePenn and the front Nationale are much less prominent in France than Prawo i Sprawiedliwość in Poland, but overall there's a global problem.

As for Jordan Peterson individually, well the best that I think will ever be said of him without bias is that he's got a certain pride, the conceited kind.

I kind of doubt that the conservative republican base in Gerogia... especially in these small towns is really focused on this as a big picture issue. Most of them are just small business owners who can't handle another set of lock downs without losing their business... and that is kind of what is driving a lot of their votes around were I live and surrounding counties.

I can empathize with that - if in a slightly different way - there a lot of uncertainty for anyone who isn't in the top cusp as far as wealth goes. Some at my workplace theorize we won't have jobs in the coming year after this furlough, I don't know if she's right, but the thought of it is enough to stress me.

Again I still think it goes back to how much of a Trumpophile True-Believer folks are.
 

As the saying goes... "One person's death is a tragedy... a million deaths is a statistic."

Wise words friend

[Haibane]

Is the USA offering bail-out money for companies facing financial problems, either at a federal or state level?

[TheVillain]

That’s part of the problem, they’re giving all the bailout money to the big corporations. Like even when they supposedly earmark some for smaller businesses you can count on at least half of that going to the big corporate donors.

It’s almost like we have socialism, it’s just for the rich only.

[Haibane]

That's obscene. Who is making those decisions? Has Biden said anything yet about trying to spread the aid more equitably?

Actually... sorry, wrong thread! We ought to slide on over to the C-19 discussion on this.

[Kitteredge]

Economic pieties in the United States adhere to the 'supply side' philosophies -- that if you shovel more money onto the tables of the biggest corporations and the rich, somehow this will make everything better. Of course one can be cynical and say that the notion of making things better was never the point, but there are many who truly believe in this idea.

The rest of the world, or much of it, understands that you need to keep people in their homes, keep small businesses going, and rise to the needs of demand. In supply side economics, the idea is that giving resources to the big fish will... something. Demand side economics understands that people need toilet paper, people need to eat, people need durable goods, but that they sometimes need resources to acquire these things. In times of duress, putting money in their hands will keep the economy flowing -- plus they actually know what they need and can flood the money around.

But, as a cynic in this regard, I don't think the GOP has any intention of helping and the Democrats, at least the centrists among them (Schumer, etc.) have no intention of saying otherwise.

[TheHangedOne]

In supply side economics, the idea is that giving resources to the big fish will... something. Demand side economics understands that people need toilet paper, people

It's the myth of Trickle Down Economics; a phrase that was literally created as a sarcastic bit of social commentary.

[Missy]

It's the myth of Trickle Down Economics; a phrase that was literally created as a sarcastic bit of social commentary.

Supply Side economics and Trickle Down economics are literally the same thing, one's from the suppporters, the other the detractors.

Determien whihc is whihc and the trends since and you'll know if it was a good idea or not.