Coronavirus - are you afraid?

[Azuresun]

When you have been dealing with health issues like have for years now, serious ones that are life threatening, and you are used to the testing that goes on before new medications become available for public use, these vaccines are a little scary.  They came so fast and no amount of logic can convince me to overlook the situation.  I've checked with all of my doctors, six of them at a minimum) and their advice is I should take the vaccine when it becomes available to me.  I get a flu shot every year and never have a reaction, not even a sore spot at the injection site.

I'm still on the fence but I think when they approach me with the needle I'll just nod then grin and bear it with fingers crossed.

I can understand apprehension. Maybe think of it like this--if you overcome that fear, you can discard the fear you presumably feel of contracting Covid, which is far more likely to cause you harm.

[Beguile's Mistress]

I'm already dying from what is wrong with me and C19 is just something to add to the list whether the virus kills me or vaccine.

[stormwyrm]

True, we don't know all the long-term side effects of the vaccines yet. But we also don't know all of the long-term sequelae and complications of COVID-19 infection either, this being a completely novel disease that had only begun infecting people a year ago. What we do know of the latter is already very bad: cardiopulmonary and neurological damage of various sorts, various organ damage, etc., some of which might be permanent. Not even counting the 1-2% chance of death. It seems likely given the data we already have that the vaccines are far safer than getting a full blown coronavirus infection. It will likely be some time before a vaccine becomes generally available here though, but when it does I'll be getting it.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/deciding-between-a-vaccine-and-an-infection/

[Oreo]

I'm already dying from what is wrong with me and C19 is just something to add to the list whether the virus kills me or vaccine.

Same here, already dying. I am afraid of the shot but more afraid of the actual virus. Though I might wait a week before getting one because that little voice in the back of my head screams in terror at the Auschwitz showers and what humanity is capable of.

[clonkertink]

That's another reason for folks like me, who aren't immunocompromised, to get vaccinated. Maybe it knocks me on my ass for a day or two, but I'm reasonably young and healthy. I'll bounce back. And it means that I won't infect anyone who is immunocompromised and might suffer more severe complications from the vaccine.

[Azuresun]

Same here, already dying. I am afraid of the shot but more afraid of the actual virus. Though I might wait a week before getting one because that little voice in the back of my head screams in terror at the Auschwitz showers and what humanity is capable of.

That is not an appropriate, tasteful or accurate comparison to make.

[Haibane]

These vaccines are safe. End of discussion. There is no conspiracy. If you don't take the jab

• you're doing as much harm as the most deranged of the QAnon nutjobs.
  
  
• Recommendations against from duly qualified medical professionals excepted being the only reason not to.

[Haibane]

Drat bullet points got used instead of foot notes there. I meant to write:

These vaccines are safe. End of discussion. There is no conspiracy. If you don't take the jab (note 1) you're doing as much harm as the most deranged of the QAnon nutjobs.

(note 1) Recommendations against from duly qualified medical professionals excepted being the only reason not to.

[Oreo]

I am taking the vaccine, just heard too much from my uncle about WWII while I was a child. I wasn't happy about getting my smallpox vaccine and polio sugar cube either but I did it. Have always gotten my vaccines and my children theirs.

[Beguile's Mistress]

I'm really happy for anyone who can overlook any danger associated with a vaccine that has been fast tracked in an effort to fight the C19 virus and take the shot without thought to the possible consequences.  I realize there is a likelihood they have not had to face their own mortality but I am a person who says thank you every morning when my alarm goes off that I have awakened to another day of life.  It may be only those of us who have looked Death in the eye and faced it down that feel this way but we do appreciate any kindness and understanding available from others for our situation rather than a lack of graciousness from those who are not capable of compassion. 

I don't agree with anti-vaxxers but do understand the quandary with which they deal.  However, to callously assume that those of us who are afraid are not going to do what is necessary is wrong.  So is taking an attitude against our opinion and feelings.  I've had this happen to me before - on this site as well as others - and while I can life with that behavior I feel sorry for others who are more vulnerable to what some might consider mean spirited.

[Dashenka]

That is not an appropriate, tasteful or accurate comparison to make.

I kinda agree with this Oreo.

Comparing vaccins and whether or not to take them with being gassed in a concentration camp by the Nazi's is not really appropriate, tasteful or accurate.



I just hope we all stay safe and keep our wits about us. Strange times are happening, lots of (important) European countries going on lockdown again (Germany, the Netherlands) measures that will directly affect lots of people for Christmas and new years. The vaccin is coming but Rona is still among us and she ain't done with us yet.

I'm just relieved that my grandfather is getting his vaccin this week. The man's 99 years old and I haven't seen him for a long time. So the moment I know he gets his shot, I can at least stop worrying about him dying to Rona. Then of course it's still a matter of when can we fly again and see our families. And get the much needed healthcare some of us desperately need.

I'm getting my vaccin as soon as possible. I already got autism, so I should be good



So regardless of our political differences, wealth, and other believes, I genuinely hope you will all stay safe and healthy and despite all the restrictions can still spend holidays with loved ones, albeit not all of them.

[Oreo]

I know Dasha.It is just a dark scary thought that lingers from being too close to what happened back then. I only mentioned it because this is PROC and the thought is scary. I apologize if it offended. From my mother I carry German heritage, from my father Jewish, These things do linger.

[Azuresun]

I'm really happy for anyone who can overlook any danger associated with a vaccine that has been fast tracked in an effort to fight the C19 virus and take the shot without thought to the possible consequences.  I realize there is a likelihood they have not had to face their own mortality but I am a person who says thank you every morning when my alarm goes off that I have awakened to another day of life.  It may be only those of us who have looked Death in the eye and faced it down that feel this way but we do appreciate any kindness and understanding available from others for our situation rather than a lack of graciousness from those who are not capable of compassion.

I don't agree with anti-vaxxers but do understand the quandary with which they deal.

First, actual anti-vaxxers (as in the people who actually spread the propaganda) deserve no pity. They're pushing an anti-science agenda against one of the best things that medical science has ever done for humankind, based on either deranged conspiracy theories or an attempt to line their own pockets.

But.....I don't think that going on the attack towards anyone who expresses scepticism or worry is helpful. It can be easy to forget it after seeing yet another Facebook comments section drown in a tide of disinformation, lies and scare stories from bad actors and spambots, but there are people out there who are just understandably nervous about a new medicine, and going in with all guns blazing towards them and equating them with the real scumbags will just scare them off.

To try and start addressing your concerns, here's a summary of how the vaccine was developed so relatively quickly. I'm not exactly a virology expert, but I'll try and source answers to any other worries you have?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-55281633

[Beguile's Mistress]

As I said I've spoken with my doctors, all SIX of them, regarding the safety of the vaccine for me.  More than six years ago I was attacked and beaten with a piece of rebar - that heave metal bar used to reinforce concrete - and nearly killed.  Thanks to that I have ongoing health issues, quite a few of which are due to the loss or damage of vital organs. 

I am not an idiot and dislike being treated as one so I go to my medical professionals for all the advice I need.  According to them once I have been given the vaccine I need to schedule appointments with three of them for monitoring so I can receive the necessary medical intervention should I have adverse reactions to the vaccine.  I'm afraid of C19 and equally afraid of the vaccine.  This is very personal for me and it hurts to have people shrug it off as those I shouldn't be concerned. 

I will more than likely be dead within the next ten years and really don't like the idea of worrying that this cure which is so promising to so many could be responsible for that ten years to be shortened.

My fervent suggestion is that people who have concerns talk to their doctors and avoid - like the plague - any non-medical persons who think they have good and current information they picked up on the internet in order to ease their concerns.

[Haibane]

I apologise unreservedly for any hurt my insensitive comments have caused. I can only say in my defence that it is sheer frustration with the growing tide of people who say they won't be taking the vaccine, or who attack it simply because it fits their programme to do so which may mean we are never going to reach full immunity.

*hugs* to everybody. Lets just all do our best to get through this.

[Oreo]

I apologise unreservedly for any hurt my insensitive comments have caused. I can only say in my defence that it is sheer frustration with the growing tide of people who say they won't be taking the vaccine, or who attack it simply because it fits their programme to do so which may mean we are never going to reach full immunity.

*hugs* to everybody. Lets just all do our best to get through this.

Thank you Haibane. It is very frustrating hearing the numbers of people that say they will not take it. Not like the Smallpox days when people were eager to get their immunity.

Be well all.

[Dhi]

I'm sorry that you feel hurt, Beguile. If the root of that is feeling as though your concerns are not being heard, let me reassure you. When you mentioned your concern over the vaccine, I immediately thought about what kind of risk factors you might fall under which would cause these six doctors to advise caution. Knowing a little bit more about your situation now than nothing, this vaccine is not harmful to you. The reasons we exercise caution when vaccinating those who're immunocompromised or with reduced organ function are that live virus vaccines can trigger infection, and mRNA vaccines can fail to trigger sufficient immune response.

There are specific vaccines which will be right for your situation being developed right now. Sanofi recently had a setback not meeting its benchmark for immune response, but they will continue to hone the formula and they will reach it in the coming months. The vaccines that are available now will have their effectiveness reduced for you, depending on any number of factors that I do not know because I'm not your doctor, but they will not harm you.

The immune response triggered by an mRNA vaccine will not complicate medications you might be taking to prevent immune response inflammation, for example, if that's one of your concerns. The vaccine is cleared for organ recipients and those with rheumatism.

Taking a vaccine with reduced effectiveness is going to be the only way to protect yourself in the coming months, because...

That's another reason for folks like me, who aren't immunocompromised, to get vaccinated. Maybe it knocks me on my ass for a day or two, but I'm reasonably young and healthy. I'll bounce back. And it means that I won't infect anyone who is immunocompromised and might suffer more severe complications from the vaccine.

This is unfortunately not the case. The data doesn't suggest these vaccines sterilize the virus, merely that the vaccinated individual does not develop severe symptoms. Everyone who is vaccinated can still carry and spread the virus, and for a time, the world won't be any different for those who decline to be vaccinated- it will only be safer for those who are. Projections for when that will change are currently May to June.

We have some intelligent and informed people in the discussion here, Beguile. When they offer a counterpoint to your concerns, it isn't because they are not listening. It's likely they have followed the science and, having thought about your special case, are offering some information that may have escaped your notice. We are encouraging you to vaccinate because we care- not because we are dismissing you.

[Dhi]

True, we don't know all the long-term side effects of the vaccines yet. But we also don't know all of the long-term sequelae and complications of COVID-19 infection either, this being a completely novel disease that had only begun infecting people a year ago. What we do know of the latter is already very bad: cardiopulmonary and neurological damage of various sorts, various organ damage, etc., some of which might be permanent. Not even counting the 1-2% chance of death. It seems likely given the data we already have that the vaccines are far safer than getting a full blown coronavirus infection. It will likely be some time before a vaccine becomes generally available here though, but when it does I'll be getting it.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/deciding-between-a-vaccine-and-an-infection/

This tweet physically hurt me:


Two months ago I posted the global data conclusively showing that hydroxychloroquine is 0% effective. 0% is only almost 100% by the most obtuse interpretation of linear math.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.15.20209817v1.full.pdf

A week and a half ago, the final paper was published, and is available free to read here:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2023184

And the apt summary from peer commentary:

The data show no evidence of a meaningful benefit on in-hospital mortality for hydroxychloroquine, lopinavir, or interferon beta-1a when averaged across a wide range of settings, either overall or in important subgroups (Figs. S6 through S9 in the Supplementary Appendix of the article, available at NEJM.org). Viewed collectively with previous studies, the Solidarity trial sends the clear message that these drugs as currently used should no longer be considered viable treatment options for Covid-19.

There will never be a better study on this. There will never be a more opportune time to prove that hydroxychloroquine is ineffective against Covid. For someone who is willfully, hostilely ignorant, that isn't enough. No amount of truth can stand against a feeling, a niggling angry little kernel of resentment, a thrashing toddler screaming no, don't wanna.

[Beguile's Mistress]

After sitting with our nurse at work for an hour of crying I finally told her why, printed out some stuff from here for her to read, and now I'm not going to repeat what she said because that kind of language embarrasses me.

[Blythe]

Blydad (for those unaware, that's just how I refer to my father in RL) and I are intending to get vaccinated when its available in our area. He's in some at risk groups but medically would be cleared to get a vaccine at least, and I'm an essential worker in an industry where I am surrounded by covid-deniers as part of my customer base, so...for the both of us, we feel being vaccinated is the right choice for us. I can't keep letting other people who come into my workplace put me in danger with their ignorance and hatefulness. The vaccine is my only real defense against them beyond social distancing & good sanitation, and social distancing is getting harder where I work.

Though given I work in an industry where it's easy to spread illness anyways, I'll keep wearing my mask regardless. I think it's probably helped prevent workers in my job from spreading other illnesses; we've had less people call out sick in general this year ever since the mask policy went into effect.

[Blythe]

*Also double post, but I wanted to clarify: when I say 'ignorance and hatefulness' I don't mean people who are otherwise trying to do the right thing but just have worries about taking a new vaccine.

I mean like..."BiLL GatEs PUTs a MicROchiP in to TRacK U" type of bullshit. Yes, I get those types of conspiracy theorists shopping in my store and buying food from my kitchen.  I really hate having to listen to them as part of my job.

[Mithlomwen]

As soon as vaccines are made available in our area, we will be getting them as well.  I know mom in law will likely be one of the first ones (after front line workers and long term care facility members are taken care of) to have it available to her given her age and underlying health concerns.  Not sure where I fall in that scheme of things, but as soon as I can, I and the husband will be getting it.  Not sure quite yet about the kiddos as neither are 16 yet.  So, will have to wait to see where things end up for them.  If at some point it is cleared for them, they will be getting it as well.   

[Oniya]

As soon as vaccines are made available in our area, we will be getting them as well.  I know mom in law will likely be one of the first ones (after front line workers and long term care facility members are taken care of) to have it available to her given her age and underlying health concerns.  Not sure where I fall in that scheme of things, but as soon as I can, I and the husband will be getting it. Not sure quite yet about the kiddos as neither are 16 yet.  So, will have to wait to see where things end up for them.  If at some point it is cleared for them, they will be getting it as well.

One problem with any medical study is that under-18s can't be tested in the clinical studies (legal consent reasons).  You'd be best off talking with your pediatrician and getting their recommendation.

[Mithlomwen]

One problem with any medical study is that under-18s can't be tested in the clinical studies (legal consent reasons).  You'd be best off talking with your pediatrician and getting their recommendation.

Yeah, that was my thinking as well. 

[Mechelle]

In Britain, our system of tiers is due to be reviewed on Wednesday, when I am hopeful that my home area will be reduced from the highest tier 3 to tier 2, following a sustained reduction in the number of cases. In contrast, Health Secretary Matt Hancock announced two days early today that the whole of Greater London and the closest parts of the adjacent counties of Essex and Hertfordshire are moving up to tier 3.

He also said that there is some evidence that there is a new mutation of the virus (nothing unusual in that as coronavirus does mutate) which spreads more quickly, but is not any more dangerous and against which the vaccine remains effective, which has caused the increase in cases in parts of the south east.  We still  seem to be having that relaxation in restrictions over Christmas though, when many people who live and work in London will travel to the provinces to see their families. I do have some sympathy for the government on this as it would be very hard to drop  this now it has been promised; I have lived in the south east myself (but in an area which now has a very low infection rate!) and I know my late mother would have been very upset and disappointed if I wasn't home for Christmas.