Coronavirus: Discussion and Information

Started by Blythe, January 05, 2021, 05:38:56 PM

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Lilias

#75
January 20, 2021, 11:11:23 AM
I can believe that even China didn't realise at first how much of a mess they had on their hands. Once they did, though, they enforced very strict containment measures and shared all their research with the western labs. We'd be in even deeper brown applesauce if they'd kept it to themselves.
To go in the dark with a light is to know the light.
To know the dark, go dark. Go without sight,
and find that the dark, too, blooms and sings,
and is traveled by dark feet and dark wings.
~Wendell Berry

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Envious

#76
January 20, 2021, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: joeman on January 20, 2021, 10:18:03 AM
Trump wasn't the driving force behind the world getting infected by covid: Trump is guilty for doing a lot of damage to the United States but China was and still is the driving force behind the world suffering from this pandemic! If China was being honest from the very beginning, this whole pandemic wouldn't have spiraled out of control this badly in the first place!

Sorry, I should have said that Trump was the driving force behind where the USA is currently at with COVID.

stormwyrm

#77
January 21, 2021, 01:35:43 AM
It's more incompetence on the part of the Chinese and their culture of ass-covering that led to the pandemic going global. And even if they were as open as we wished them to be chances are it would have still gotten out anyway. Nature always finds a way. Blaming the Chinese for this is like blaming the Indonesians for a supervolcano erupting on their territory. Could they have done better? Absolutely. But whinging about that at this point is just pissing in the wind. What are you going to do about it now becomes the real issue.

Now, given all that, what was the response of the Trump administration? They denied this was a problem, and then minimised it when it became impossible to deny, ignored the science, and actively worked against even the most basic of public health measures to help stem its transmission. Trump even made something as basic as mask-wearing into a political and tribal issue! He let the states decide on what to do instead of providing leadership and guidance from the federal government, forcing the states to compete with one another for scarce resources like PPE for their frontline medical workers. This is why the United States is leading the world in COVID-19 death tolls and they will soon reach the grim half a megadeth milestone, and there is probably nothing Joe Biden can still do to prevent that.

Other countries like Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, and South Korea managed things much better, they have kept infections and deaths at low levels by heeding the scientific recommendations. The only way we can get out of this is to science the shit out of it. Managing the pandemic is possible. There will be pain but less than not taking those measures will.
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Haibane

#78
January 21, 2021, 08:31:07 AM
I do not believe the Chinese had the option. Their politics and culture almost certainly contributed in that they tried to silence a couple of outspoken doctors who were initially reporting it, but it is fair to say that any delay that action caused would have been a similar delay in any other country for other reasons. Pandemics happen because of first response inertia. Once the first carriers were off the ground in outbound international flights it was too late. In any event every other country did have the opportunity to respond effectively and several did such as Germany, NZ, S Korea, Australia and so on.

A virus was delivered to every country on the planet by a very small number of passengers off international flights. Some countries were hit first of course but all eventually were within about two months, barring some extreme locations (politics or geography). Every single government had ample opportunity to respond in any way they thought best using the science and medical information everyone had globally at the same time. No one should have been unprepared. No-one. Because we have had similar alerts in recent years. Every country ought to have a robust pandemic planning and response team in place. Some of course did, some did not. Some placed scientists in charge of their response, some placed politicians in charge. Some politicians listened to the science, some did not.

Some counties governments responded well, some responded badly. Some societies and citizens responded correctly, some did not. The overall effect of the virus in each country was a direct result of that response conflated with the social and cultural norms of that country.

Each country has only itself (or its government) to blame or thank for how the virus has been contained within its borders.

Humble Scribe

#80
January 22, 2021, 03:15:53 PM
Quote from: Envious on January 20, 2021, 10:10:05 AM
It also bugs the hell out of me that in his farewell address, he still calls it the China virus. His effort out the door to say "remember, it wasn't me who did this, it was China!" Not to downplay China's role, but Trump was the driving force behind where we are currently at with COVID-19.

Yeah, but China...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs
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Moves on:  nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

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Haibane

#81
January 22, 2021, 06:13:32 PM
"China because China." I LOL'd.  8-)

Oniya

#82
January 23, 2021, 02:58:17 PM
Researchers have evidence that possessing a Y-chromosome may add to the risk of poor COVID immune response.

A good portion of this is beyond my memories of college BIO101, and they do admit that societal attitudes to male behavior and traditional gender roles are also factors, but a few paragraphs in, they're talking on cellular and molecular levels (hence, my phrasing in the link-text).
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
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elone

#83
January 23, 2021, 10:08:52 PM
I want my shot!! Virginia is sucking getting anything.
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stormwyrm

#84
January 24, 2021, 02:57:40 AM
Kenneth Branagh as Boris Johnson in a TV series about the COVID-19 crisis? Interesting.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/23/kenneth-branagh-to-play-boris-johnson-in-tv-drama-about-covid-crisis

A similar show about the same thing on the other side of the Atlantic would be the centrepiece of the final climactic season 5 of a cable drama about the Trump presidency.
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Haibane

#85
January 24, 2021, 07:25:24 AM
In all seriousness a TV drama-documentary titled "The Trump Years" would be a great watch as long as it didn't stray off into complete fiction as The Crown has.

stormwyrm

#86
January 24, 2021, 08:58:51 AM
Quote from: Haibane on January 24, 2021, 07:25:24 AM
In all seriousness a TV drama-documentary titled "The Trump Years" would be a great watch as long as it didn't stray off into complete fiction as The Crown has.

Yep. There's an article I ran across that makes that point pretty well:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/01/16/donald-trump-post-presidency-television-459771

Quote...The Trump drama played out over a few distinct seasons. Season One was a come-from-behind campaign story that ended with unlikely victory. Season Two showcased an accidental administration, with supporting roles for Sean Spicer, Steve Bannon and Anthony Scaramucci. Season Three centered on the Mueller Investigation. (Mid-series plots always tread water for a bit as the writers bide time ‘til the finale.) Season Four upped the dramatic ante with an election and a global pandemic.

The comparisons are so eerily accurate that it’s tempting to look to TV for predictions about how this all ends. If you’ve followed the epic dramas on cable, you’ve been trained to expect a certain kind of finale, and in many ways, the past two weeks have fit the pattern well. The January 6 riot felt like a penultimate episode, when the peak of the action takes place. Trump took a final stand to stay in power, fulfilling every ugly prophecy from his tweets as his loyalists betrayed him, one by one—even Mike Pence, in the end.
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Mr Quixotic

#87
January 24, 2021, 06:18:15 PM
The Pfizer vaccine has been approved by the Therapeutics Goods Administration here in Australia this morning; meaning imports and the first vaccinations will happen shortly.

Hoping to have the majority of the population vaccinated by October.
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'I, myself, am made entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions.'

Haibane

#88
January 24, 2021, 07:23:43 PM
My elderly lady friend who lives a few doors down received the Pfizer vaccine a week ago. She is doing brilliantly and suffered no adverse reaction beyond a sore upper arm for 24h.

Oniya

#89
January 24, 2021, 07:24:23 PM
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/pfizer-to-ship-fewer-vaccine-vials-to-account-for-extra-doses/  (no paywall, but a couple of 'register' popups that can be dismissed without info.)

Be aware that Pfizer is now calculating their shipments based on 6 doses per vial, which requires special syringes to extract.  They discovered the potential extra volume back in September, lobbied to allow it to 'count', and on January 6 (of course) got approval from the FDA to allow it.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
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Haibane

#90
January 26, 2021, 06:59:24 AM
The greed and selfishness of some makes me want to punch walls.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55805907

CopperLily

#92
January 27, 2021, 03:04:33 AM
To address two things, given what this is what I do for a living:

1) On the whole "comorbidities" thing - this is absolutely standard in how we keep track of disease mortality. Why? Because it is basically impossible to pin down a cause-specific death count in a lot of cases, because people don't actually work that way. One of the thing that enrages me is when people insist on comparing death rates from *only* COVID-19 infections with no other underlying comorbidity to the deaths from influenza every year.

Why?

Because almost none of those deaths were from primary viremia either. If you die of influenza, you know what you probably died of? A heart attack. The virus put more stress on you than normal, your already strained cardiovascular system took the hit, and you died. That's how we deal with most infectious diseases. This is methodologically sound, and not particularly controversial, and only became a thing because people felt the need to minimize something for political purposes.

2) The vaccine, as others have mentioned, wasn't developed quickly. We've seen the need for an emerging coronavirus vaccine for a long time - SARS and MERS primed us for that. Hell, I put a grant in in November 2019 using "a novel emerging coronavirus" as one of the suggested scenarios to study. The first year I was in graduate school, one of my potential mentors was working on SARS vaccine development. Since then, I've gotten a degree, and graduate students of my own. This is building on a lot of previous work, suddenly given more urgency, more money, and more resources.

Mechelle

#93
January 27, 2021, 05:45:50 PM
Some covid deniers made their way while not wearing a mask, into a hospital in Surrey, in England, to visit an ill family  member, abusing staff while they did so.
I did see a video where a patient discharged himself,saying there was nothing wrong with him, but that may have been a separate incident Meanwhile, 1725 people were reported as dying after testing positive in the UK today.



https://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/19043085.group-stormed-east-surrey-covid-ward-abused-staff/

Haibane

#94
January 27, 2021, 06:04:46 PM
This kind of behaviour makes me so very, very angry. The person the police are seeking is Toby Hayden-Leigh who is one of those "freemen on the land" nutcases who doesn't accept that laws apply to him. Idiot.

Haibane

#95
January 28, 2021, 04:57:47 AM
WHO investigative team in Wuhan leave quarantine to begin their examination into COVID-19s possible origins.

I have to confess I have my cynics hat on and am not holding my breath that any radical findings are uncovered here.

CopperLily

#96
January 28, 2021, 06:53:56 PM
Quote from: Haibane on January 28, 2021, 04:57:47 AM
WHO investigative team in Wuhan leave quarantine to begin their examination into COVID-19s possible origins.

I have to confess I have my cynics hat on and am not holding my breath that any radical findings are uncovered here.

"It's probably a bat, and it's probably from contact due to increased urbanization pressure" would be my bet.

Haibane

#98
January 30, 2021, 08:05:07 AM
The mess continues. Its been a huge own goal for the EU. Though perhaps this may be more relevant in the Brexit thread than here?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55866285

Azuresun

#99
January 31, 2021, 05:34:36 AM
Quote from: Haibane on January 30, 2021, 08:05:07 AM
The mess continues. Its been a huge own goal for the EU. Though perhaps this may be more relevant in the Brexit thread than here?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55866285

Yep, it really bought the Little Englanders out in force in comments sections. Of course, if there were irregularities in the production of an EU-made vaccine coming to the UK, they'd have been breaking out the torches and pitchforks.
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