Coronavirus: Discussion and Information

[stormwyrm]

To everyone else in this thread, let me make something crystal clear: I'm not anti-vaccine but rather someone that questions the safety of the vaccine that was created in such a short period of time by incompetent governments who were the ones that have caused the virus spiral out of control in the first place like the U.K. with it's herd immunity idea and the U.S. with it's slow response, downplaying, and cover-ups, and China with it's cover-ups, downplaying, and denial!

The vaccines were not created by the governments you perhaps rightly despise but by scientists who might have at most received government funding. Their safety and efficacy is not given solely by government fiat, but based on sound scientific evidence that has been independently evaluated, which while incomplete by the standards of normal times, is in my mind acceptable in this time of deadly pandemic.

If you remain sceptical, what will it take to convince you? What is the standard of evidence that will make you to change your mind?

[Iniquitous]

Wait just a minute: Did you just made a reasonable case for the vaccine without acting like someone who get high from their own farts?! o.O

Lol, joking aside, I'm glad to hear someone who presents a logical argument without automatically resorting to extreme assumptions like some typical, political hack!

To everyone else in this thread, let me make something crystal clear: I'm not anti-vaccine but rather someone that questions the safety of the vaccine that was created in such a short period of time by incompetent governments who were the ones that have caused the virus spiral out of control in the first place like the U.K. with it's herd immunity idea and the U.S. with it's slow response, downplaying, and cover-ups, and China with it's cover-ups, downplaying, and denial!

I have taken the first dose of the vaccine - on Dec. 30th - and am still around. I had about 2 days of fatigue, temp, and chills before returning to normal.  There is nothing wrong with the vaccines.

[joeman]

The vaccines were not created by the governments you perhaps rightly despise but by scientists who might have at most received government funding. Their safety and efficacy is not given solely by government fiat, but based on sound scientific evidence that has been independently evaluated, which while incomplete by the standards of normal times, is in my mind acceptable in this time of deadly pandemic.

If you remain sceptical, what will it take to convince you? What is the standard of evidence that will make you to change your mind?

You've made really sound and logical arguments for the vaccine and the development behind it without resorting to being a passive-aggressive asshole about it and for that I have changed my mind significantly on the matter for even though I still have some lingering worries about it, I'm going to get the vaccine when the opportunity presents itself to me instead of waiting until it becomes "mandatory" to get one!

Thank you for convincing me and for approaching me properly with your arguments and information, stormwrym! I really do appreciate it! C=

[Beguile's Mistress]

Okay, I really, really want to believe that you're just misinformed rather than an anti-vaxxer loon and I'm hoping you won't brush off evidence with "but my feels!", so here's some of the reasons why it was ready so relatively quickly:

--It was building on research for similar viruses.
--The scientists were working literally twenty-four hours a day, in shifts.
--There were none of the usual delays that hold up vaccine development related to funding or finding volunteers; the budget was "yes", and the volunteers were virtually beating down the door to be injected.
-The trials were overlapped (BUT none were skipped).

Anything could have been ready this quickly with this degree of concentrated effort. Basically, imagine a drive to work through a busy city. But one day, there are no other cars on the street and every light you encounter is green. You're not taking shortcuts, you're not speeding, but the barriers and holdups that are normally a part of your normal routine have all been removed:

For more detailed information, this might help: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-55281633

This the best explanation I've seen for how the vaccine was released so quickly.  Thank you.

[Haibane]

I'm not anti-vaccine but rather someone that questions the safety of the vaccine that was created in such a short period of time by incompetent governments

Anti-vaccine is exactly what you seem to be, stating that you won't have it because it was developed too quickly.

Governments did not develop it. It was developed by pharmaceutical/medical researchers and scientists. In other words the same people who give us all our medicines. Governments merely funded the process... in the same way they do for other medical research projects to one degree or another. The only difference with the C-19 vaccine projects was the urgent need and how that was achieved has already been explained.

who were the ones that have caused the virus spiral out of control in the first place like the U.K. with it's herd immunity idea

Have you a source for that claim please?

[Haibane]

without resorting to being a passive-aggressive asshole about it

Please will you moderate your language on this forum. Site moderators have already advised you that this forum has certain standards.

[Oniya]

Please will you moderate your language on this forum. Site moderators have already advised you that this forum has certain standards.

Saying that someone is not being an asshole is actually not being rude.

[Azuresun]

Wait just a minute: Did you just made a reasonable case for the vaccine without acting like someone who get high from their own farts?! o.O

Lol, joking aside, I'm glad to hear someone who presents a logical argument without automatically resorting to extreme assumptions like some typical, political hack!

Read some comments by anti-vaxxers (like in any Facebook thread even remotely related to it), and the lack of patience will very quickly make sense. Those people do not argue in good faith, they vomit up a stream of disinformation, out-of-context quotes, pseudoscience, loopy conspiracy theories, glib catchphrases, and flat-out lies. Try to imagine yourself arguing with someone who was using those tactics to argue any point, never mind one where lives are on the line right this minute. Then imagine how frayed your patience would be after a few days or weeks of seeing untiring chanting and repetition of this nonsense every time the subject comes up.

To everyone else in this thread, let me make something crystal clear: I'm not anti-vaccine but rather someone that questions the safety of the vaccine that was created in such a short period of time by incompetent governments who were the ones that have caused the virus spiral out of control in the first place like the U.K. with it's herd immunity idea and the U.S. with it's slow response, downplaying, and cover-ups, and China with it's cover-ups, downplaying, and denial!

Fact check: Herd immunity was never a stated strategy in the UK. There was a lot of ineptitude in the handling of the virus, but it was never stated policy. If it had been, we certainly wouldn't have had 20+ weeks of lockdown (and currently counting).

[Haibane]

Saying that someone is not being an asshole is actually not being rude.

With respect, the poster was thanking another poster for how they were posting, the asshole comment could have been directed at anyone, including other people on this forum.

[TheGlyphstone]

Read some comments by anti-vaxxers (like in any Facebook thread even remotely related to it), and the lack of patience will very quickly make sense. Those people do not argue in good faith, they vomit up a stream of disinformation, out-of-context quotes, pseudoscience, loopy conspiracy theories, glib catchphrases, and flat-out lies. Try to imagine yourself arguing with someone who was using those tactics to argue any point, never mind one where lives are on the line right this minute. Then imagine how frayed your patience would be after a few days or weeks of seeing untiring chanting and repetition of this nonsense every time the subject comes up.

For example, this diagram is apparently now floating around the internet:

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

As made obvious by the 'Base', 'Treble', and 'Footswitch' labels, this is actually a diagram of a guitar pedal circuit board. Someone photoshopped the words '5G Freq' into the middle and now its supposedly the diagram of the 5G microchip that Bill Gates and the Deep State are conspiring to secretly inject into everybody disguised as a 'vaccine' for the 'coronavirus'.

How, exactly, do you argue against that level of batshit crazy without getting exasperated eventually?

[Oniya]

As made obvious by the 'Base', 'Treble', and 'Footswitch' labels, this is actually a diagram of a guitar pedal circuit board. Someone photoshopped the words '5G Freq' into the middle and now its supposedly the diagram of the 5G microchip that Bill Gates and the Deep State are conspiring to secretly inject into everybody disguised as a 'vaccine' for the 'coronavirus'.

So, if I get the COVID vaccine with bonus 5G microchip, I can play Fives?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yPEewaalik&feature=youtu.be

[Azuresun]

For example, this diagram is apparently now floating around the internet:

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

As made obvious by the 'Base', 'Treble', and 'Footswitch' labels, this is actually a diagram of a guitar pedal circuit board. Someone photoshopped the words '5G Freq' into the middle and now its supposedly the diagram of the 5G microchip that Bill Gates and the Deep State are conspiring to secretly inject into everybody disguised as a 'vaccine' for the 'coronavirus'.

How, exactly, do you argue against that level of batshit crazy without getting exasperated eventually?

Oh, I remember when a news report had an illustration of a coronavirus vaccine bottle with a date of March last year on it, and the conspiracy loons latched onto that for a few weeks. Because it couldn't possibly be that vaccine research had begun almost as soon as it became plain how dangerous the virus was, no, this was a slip-up by the New World Order revealing how this was all setup for the Great Reset.

It's the combination of utter scepticism for actual science and experts and absolute uncritical credulity for their pet conspiracy theories that's so exasperating to deal with--it's a degree of doublethink that Orwell probably would have been amazed by.

[Lilias]

How, exactly, do you argue against that level of batshit crazy without getting exasperated eventually?

I personally show them this photo and add that they'll have to wait to receive the chip via enema.

[stormwyrm]

How, exactly, do you argue against that level of batshit crazy without getting exasperated eventually?

Why on earth would you need an implanted tracking microchip, when just about everyone in the world already carries around at almost all times a bit of electronic gadgetry capable of doing all that and more?

[TheGlyphstone]

*Straps on tinfoil hat* Okay, nutso conspiracy theorist brainmode online...

I personally show them this photo and add that they'll have to wait to receive the chip via enema.

Pfft, that's just part of the long con. The big needle lures you into a false sense of security, so They can catch you unawares and inject the tiny microchips with the small ones.

Why on earth would you need an implanted tracking microchip, when just about everyone in the world already carries around at almost all times a bit of electronic gadgetry capable of doing all that and more?

It does more than tracking, obviously. A cell phone can't get inside your brain and make you do what They want you do.

It's the combination of utter scepticism for actual science and experts and absolute uncritical credulity for their pet conspiracy theories that's so exasperating to deal with--it's a degree of doublethink that Orwell probably would have been amazed by.

"Orwell" was just a pseudonym invented by Them to present the only sensible way to outsmart their lies as fictional nonsense. Doublethink lets you fool Them by presenting one set of thoughts to be detected by their satellites while you are really thinking the Truth in secret.

[Beguile's Mistress]

I saw a segment on "60 Minutes" discussing the difficulties older people are having finding a vaccine administration site and trying to make an appointment.  I'm luck as I'll be getting the vaccine at my dialysis clinic and don't have to try to schedule a time for the injection.  However, the story went on to suggest those of us who are up to speed with computers and such do all we can to help our older friends and acquaintances make those appointments.  Please, check around, as I am going to, and try to assist those who may not have computer abilities make those appointments.

[Haibane]

Following on from my post on the 16th Jan I have stayed in contact with my elderly friend and she is experiencing no after effects beyond a sore arm, which she describes as "a bit worse than when I have my usual winter flu jab".

[Azuresun]

As made obvious by the 'Base', 'Treble', and 'Footswitch' labels, this is actually a diagram of a guitar pedal circuit board. Someone photoshopped the words '5G Freq' into the middle and now its supposedly the diagram of the 5G microchip that Bill Gates and the Deep State are conspiring to secretly inject into everybody disguised as a 'vaccine' for the 'coronavirus'.

How, exactly, do you argue against that level of batshit crazy without getting exasperated eventually?

And the thing is, couldn't you have used a diagram of a chip that didn't have those obvious giveaway words? Says a lot about the standard of evidence they know their audience will accept.

[Haibane]

Its a little too obvious. Might this be a joke, or a satire?

[Oniya]

Even without the diagram, the idea of the vaccine containing a chip has been circulating in various conspiracy circles for a while.  Glyph's diagram could be a case of Poe's Law.  (Another way to put it is that The Onion is having a hard time coming up with things more unbelievable than the current news headlines.)

I know my nephew (and other knowledgeable people) could give you an exact description about what all those resistors (le gasp!) and capacitors and diodes are actually doing.  I can't, but I know enough to say it's too simple for what they claim the 'chip' will do.  For the average and celebrated Man In The Street, that graph is written in Linear B, and simply removing all text would make the claim barely plausible, which is all that a conspiracy theory needs.

The syringe image is a little more 'real' to that level of belief.

[Skynet]

As of 2:10 AM EST, the COVID death toll in the USA is 402,000 people. And an estimated 24.3 million people who have it.

In early 2020 before the virus' effects became widely known, President Trump admitted on tape to Bob Woodward that he knew the virus would be deadly, but he wished to downplay its effects "to avoid panic."

He would then go on to deliberately downplay and misinform the public. From injecting disinfectant into the veins as a possible cure...

Argued against the effectiveness of masks and made fun of others for wearing them...

Was found by a study to be the largest driver of misinformation...

...and whose many supporters in government went on to worsen this.

Such as the resignation and arrest of a data scientist asked to falsify information, including a raid on her home...

...whose Senate Majority Leader laughed off his part in withholding COVID aid...

...and whose voting base are far more likely to not bother wearing masks...

...to say nothing of those who would refuse a vaccine.

Trump will be remembered for many things during his time in office. But more than anything I will remember him as the leader who sent nearly half a million American citizens to their deaths for no good reason.

[Envious]

It also bugs the hell out of me that in his farewell address, he still calls it the China virus. His effort out the door to say "remember, it wasn't me who did this, it was China!" Not to downplay China's role, but Trump was the driving force behind where we are currently at with COVID-19.

[Beguile's Mistress]

It's like the Confederacy which lost the War of Northern Aggression calling it a slave uprising.  Perspective plays a big part in things.

[joeman]

It also bugs the hell out of me that in his farewell address, he still calls it the China virus. His effort out the door to say "remember, it wasn't me who did this, it was China!" Not to downplay China's role, but Trump was the driving force behind where we are currently at with COVID-19.

Trump wasn't the driving force behind the world getting infected by covid: Trump is guilty for doing a lot of damage to the United States but China was and still is the driving force behind the world suffering from this pandemic! If China was being honest from the very beginning, this whole pandemic wouldn't have spiraled out of control this badly in the first place!

[Oniya]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-cdc-exclusiv/exclusive-u-s-axed-cdc-expert-job-in-china-months-before-virus-outbreak-idUSKBN21910S

Or, perhaps if Trump hadn't eliminated the CDC staff that were in China to keep an eye on emerging infectious diseases.