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Author Topic: Mendella effect  (Read 2834 times)

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Offline mannikTopic starter

Mendella effect
« on: April 24, 2017, 10:12:16 PM »
Now this is probably going to be a weird topic, but I couldn't think of anywhere else to put this. First, before I get into what the Mendella effect is, I have a simple question....an easy question, especially for long time Star Wars fans.

What was the famous line Vader says to Luke after cutting off his hand at cloud city? Right after Luke says Vader killed his father...

Reason I ask, is because I honestly remember the line being "Luke, I am your father." As does every star wars fan I've grown up with, and indeed most of the Internet it would seem. Hell, even James Earl Jones himself seems to think that was the line according to interviews on talk shows and such.

Yet, when one goes back and looks at the original footage, the line recorded on film is "No, I am your father." Which honestly I never heard until today. And I've seen that move a hundred times at least! It actually sounds kind of wrong and out of place too...

But basically the Mendella effect is called that because apparently half the population honestly remembers Nelson Mendella dying in prison in the eighties....yet that didn't happen according to current history. Just like millions of people remember vividly an iconic line that apparently isn't and never has been what they grew up hearing time and again.

I know it's a relatively small thing...but how could billions of avid fans be wrong about the thing they love most? Same sort of thing happened to Field of Dreams as well.... Everyone remembers the whispered voice saying "if you build it, they will come." But now if you watch it, the voice says "he will come."

I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed incongruities like this. One theory I heard to explain this is that when they fired the Super collider at CERN, they actually destroyed the universe, and everyone's consciousness was simply absorbed into the nearest alternate timeline in which everything more or less is the same, but the universe wasn't ended....

Not sure if I'm on board with that...but considering the power of quantum computing (parallel universes on a chip basically) it wouldn't surprise me if some sort of quantum weirdness was going on.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 10:21:47 PM by mannik »

Online Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2017, 10:44:36 PM »

As a long-time Star Wars fan, I have to say that I never really focused on the bit before the comma.  The important part was always 'I am your father!' 'Nooooooooo!'

And Han shot first.

I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed incongruities like this.

Just like that genie movie with Sinbad.

Just kidding - that was actually a movie with Shaquille O'Neil.

Also, Sherlock Holmes never combined the phrases 'Elementary' and 'my dear Watson' in any of Doyle's books, and Rhett Butler never said 'Frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn.'  (It was 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.')



Offline Egoiste

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2017, 04:42:41 AM »
Quote
Also, Sherlock Holmes never combined the phrases 'Elementary' and 'my dear Watson' in any of Doyle's books, and Rhett Butler never said 'Frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn.'  (It was 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.')

Not sure if this one applies but I'm fairly sure no one ever says 'Beam me up, Scotty,' in Star Trek: OST.

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2017, 05:39:16 AM »
Not sure if this one applies but I'm fairly sure no one ever says 'Beam me up, Scotty,' in Star Trek: OST.

And another one....anyone remember silence of the lambs? Specifically the first meeting between Hannibal and Clarece?

Can anyone else remember that creepy way he says "Hello Clarece?" Because apparently that's nowhere in the movie anymore. Now he just says "Good morning"...

And any Disney fans out there? Which line do you remember from watching Snow White when you were younger? Do you remember "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of them all?" Or "Magic mirror on the wall...."?

Oh, how about the scene from the first Terminator where he says "I'll be back?" You know, right before he walks out of the police station and jumps in the cop car and drives it through the building? According to my brother, he doesn't say it anymore. Just gives a mean look instead.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 06:11:28 AM by mannik »

Offline Theta Sigma

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2017, 07:05:47 AM »
I stumbled across this some time last year, and it bothered me. It instantly bothered me. Most of these film quotes have just been misquoted, and that's the version that circulates. You're so used to hearing the misquoted version that the original is unusual and confusing.
Hence where this effect, in the film world at least, originates. ;o

Memory, especially as a person gets older, deteriorates, and eventually the initial memory no longer exists. Instead, you're remembering a time you remembered the memory instead, which I believe is also how events and films get misremembered and messed about. The brain also likes to fudge up and fill in gaps.

There's been many times somebody I believed to be dead is actually alive, and I tend to just chalk that down to my memory, not down to the universe screwing with me.

But, hey, this is only my opinion on all of this. I'd prefer a cooler option, but because I'm just so used to having a shoddy memory, I find myself blaming that.

Online Lustful Bride

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 09:06:33 AM »
While I don't always agree with the armored skeptic, and feel that sometimes he is abit too harsh....but I kind of feel that he is pretty good on describing the Mandella Effect and debunking it.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Online Ket

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 09:42:23 AM »
I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed incongruities like this. One theory I heard to explain this is that when they fired the Super collider at CERN, they actually destroyed the universe, and everyone's consciousness was simply absorbed into the nearest alternate timeline in which everything more or less is the same, but the universe wasn't ended....

You know, the only time I can understand quantum and theoretical physics is when I listen to that kid talk...

Online Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2017, 10:47:37 AM »
You know, the only time I can understand quantum and theoretical physics is when I listen to that kid talk...

I've been reading a lot of Michael Moorcock recently.  Swapping between infinite multiverses come with the territory.  If you really want to mess with your own head, read his novel/novella 'Flux' (I have it in an omnibus, so I'm not sure of the publication history.)

Online Ket

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2017, 11:43:25 AM »
I've been reading a lot of Michael Moorcock recently.  Swapping between infinite multiverses come with the territory.  If you really want to mess with your own head, read his novel/novella 'Flux' (I have it in an omnibus, so I'm not sure of the publication history.)

I'm good. While I find the whole subject of quantum anything intriguing, my brain just can't comprehend any of it. The mathematical equations, up to a certain point, those I can understand just fine. But beyond that, I'm a puddle of goo.

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2017, 01:05:57 PM »
I stumbled across this some time last year, and it bothered me. It instantly bothered me. Most of these film quotes have just been misquoted, and that's the version that circulates. You're so used to hearing the misquoted version that the original is unusual and confusing.
Hence where this effect, in the film world at least, originates. ;o

Memory, especially as a person gets older, deteriorates, and eventually the initial memory no longer exists. Instead, you're remembering a time you remembered the memory instead, which I believe is also how events and films get misremembered and messed about. The brain also likes to fudge up and fill in gaps.

There's been many times somebody I believed to be dead is actually alive, and I tend to just chalk that down to my memory, not down to the universe screwing with me.

But, hey, this is only my opinion on all of this. I'd prefer a cooler option, but because I'm just so used to having a shoddy memory, I find myself blaming that.

Thing is, I'm perfectly aware of the inherently untrustworthy mechanisms of memory. It's like xeroxing the last print out from the Xerox machine, Eventually becoming a corrupted and distorted mess after a while.

But I'm not talking about just fond memories. I'm talking about ritual viewings and cult followings....repeated renewal of that memory from source material instead of just copying the memory itself.

I can not count how many times I've heard the clip, both audio and video, of "Luke, I am your father!" Reused in commercials and the source scene linked to on YouTube,  many times.

There are many people who had and probably still will throw viewing parties of those movies every few years. That's a scene that fans like to recite the lines along with the characters...that's probably how this shit even gets noticed in the first place.

And the Hannabal Lecter thing....I remember more than just what he said is what's getting me. I remember the sound of his voice, the look in his eyes, and the way that line made me feel when it was delivered. (Creeped out, but curious how he knew her name at first meeting.) That's why the line sticks out to me specifically. Yet...never happened apparently.

And the thing is...where I am at in my own personal journey of discovering how the world works and my own spiritual existence....I do believe it is entirely possible for consciousness to shift between parallel realities/universes. Especially in the event of catastrophic and instantaneous destruction.

I.e. If you die in a car accident, it's possible you jump to the nearest universe in which you didn't die....might wake up missing a leg or be crippled from the neck down...but not dead. Still experiencing something. Still alive and experiencing. Until all the possibilities are used up, and in no universe do you survive another day longer. After that....well, that's when the afterlife comes in and that's a whole other can of worms that I won't open right now.

I just don't want to believe that humans would be stupid enough to destroy an entire universe just to get some anti-matter....

Online Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2017, 01:11:47 PM »
And the thing is...where I am at in my own personal journey of discovering how the world works and my own spiritual existence....I do believe it is entirely possible for consciousness to shift between parallel realities/universes. Especially in the event of catastrophic and instantaneous destruction.

I.e. If you die in a car accident, it's possible you jump to the nearest universe in which you didn't die....might wake up missing a leg or be crippled from the neck down...but not dead. Still experiencing something. Still alive and experiencing. Until all the possibilities are used up, and in no universe do you survive another day longer. After that....well, that's when the afterlife comes in and that's a whole other can of worms that I won't open right now.

I just don't want to believe that humans would be stupid enough to destroy an entire universe just to get some anti-matter....

Seriously - you're basically summing up (in a general sense) the Eternal Champion motif.  If you haven't already, read some Moorcock, especially some of his less well-known stuff (I have a fairly lengthy list in the '50 books a year challenge' thread.)  Might not want to marathon it, though - personal experience talking here.  ;D

And no, I don't think we're quite dumb enough to destroy the universe.  Or even industrious enough.  That's an awful lot of work.


Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2017, 04:51:34 PM »
Well, according to Einstein, the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits...

Online Ket

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2017, 04:56:55 PM »
I just don't want to believe that humans would be stupid enough to destroy an entire universe just to get some anti-matter....

Purposefully, most likely no. But no one knew what was going to happen when the LRC was finally fired up for the big tests. Even though they dismissed at as mostly science fiction, scientists working on the project still didn't deny that the theory that a black hole would open up was a possibility. There were just an imperceptible amount of unknowns, that no amount of theorising and calculating (lest one was maybe The Machine), could possibly have come up with. Had they known changing their tests would demolish our universe and send us flying off to a parallel one, they may not have performed the tests. Or maybe they knew, and did it anyway, just to mess with the collective consciousness of the hive mind and see what would happen. An additional experiment, in a way...



And no, I don't think we're quite dumb enough to destroy the universe.  Or even industrious enough.  That's an awful lot of work.

A lot of work that is best left to the Vogons.

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2017, 06:49:01 PM »
Well, thing is....everyone I ask either remembers this stuff wrong, or not at all and can't say what it is anyway... I find that interesting

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2017, 07:07:49 PM »
Empire Strikes Back had a pretty big influence on me.  I was 11 or so, going through some things in my life, and I remember very clearly Darth Vader saying, "No...I...am your father."  It was as big a surprise to me as anybody, and I've never felt anything untoward about it as far as memory.  Once the media reports something in error, it gets repeated so many times that the error is likely to replace the original.  That's the simplest explanation for it.

Online Lustful Bride

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2017, 10:07:56 PM »
I just noticed, the title of this thread is misspelled.

Instead of Mandela up above it reads "Mendella" :P

*not sure if its on purpose*

Offline Kythia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2017, 11:25:36 PM »
Not sure if this is a UK specific one, but did you know there's no famous portrait of Henry VIII with a turkey/chicken leg in his hand?

Online Ket

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2017, 12:33:22 AM »
Not sure if this is a UK specific one, but did you know there's no famous portrait of Henry VIII with a turkey/chicken leg in his hand?

T'would be mighty funny if there was, though!

Offline Prosak

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2017, 02:39:36 PM »
How about the Bernstain bears? People always remember it as Bernstein, but people who look back today are shocked to see it as Bernstain! lol. Honestly the only credible instance of the Mandella effect was the discovery it'self, people legitimately believing and remembering news footage of Joseph Mandela dying in prison. I believe I experienced the Mandela effect first hand once because when I was younger I remember seeing tabloids that said Hulk Hogan was dead, but no one I knew seemed to believe me when I mentioned it days later. Finding out nope, dudes alive. For the most part I think the Mandela effect in movies is just people remembering lines wrong. Since I always remembered it as Frankly my dear, I do not give a dam. And I also always remembered it as "No, I 'AM' your father." But for the most part, the Mandela Effect is just a really neat conspiracy/science theory. With no credibility to back it up. And that is a statement coming from some one who swears up and down and all around he seen Hulk Hogan died on the news 10 years ago.

Offline Blythe

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2017, 02:45:40 PM »
The Berenstain Bears one used to get me all the time. I used to always think of the ending as 'stein' and not 'stain.'

I still mess up and get it wrong every great once in a while--that's how ingrained the mis-remembering is for me for that one!

Online Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2017, 03:09:30 PM »
The Berenstain Bears one used to get me all the time. I used to always think of the ending as 'stein' and not 'stain.'

I still mess up and get it wrong every great once in a while--that's how ingrained the mis-remembering is for me for that one!

The TV show always pronounced it as 'bear en stain', but the spelling was still 'stein'.  I chalk that one up to phonetic spelling on the listener's part.

Offline Kythia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2017, 03:12:03 PM »
Nope


Online Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2017, 03:29:49 PM »
*stands corrected*  I did remember the pronunciation, though.  ^^;

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2017, 04:33:40 PM »
The Mandela effect is more than just misremembered movie quotes. It's just movies are something watched and loved by millions, so even a slight change is noticed and gives some reference point for the discussion. Some remembering one thing while the rest remember another.

I don't think it's quite as simple as just media spreading a misquote though. Because like I mentioned before, real fans of the movies who've seen them hundreds of times claim to remember the incorrect version. Even the actor himself seems to recall the incorrect line.



I just think it's interesting that if all this is 'real'....then apparently only the original works had changed. All interviews about it, derivative works and spoofs based off it etc. remain unchanged (thus making them reference to something that didn't happen)

But ultimately this sort of thing is impossible to prove definitively one way or the other (reason I figured it should go here in controversies)


Online Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2017, 05:17:54 PM »
Well, if I could lay hands on a VHS, I do have a copy of the pre-CGI version of the original trilogy...