You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
July 16, 2018, 09:54:54 AM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Mendella effect  (Read 4059 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mannikTopic starter

Mendella effect
« on: April 24, 2017, 10:12:16 PM »
Now this is probably going to be a weird topic, but I couldn't think of anywhere else to put this. First, before I get into what the Mendella effect is, I have a simple question....an easy question, especially for long time Star Wars fans.

What was the famous line Vader says to Luke after cutting off his hand at cloud city? Right after Luke says Vader killed his father...

Reason I ask, is because I honestly remember the line being "Luke, I am your father." As does every star wars fan I've grown up with, and indeed most of the Internet it would seem. Hell, even James Earl Jones himself seems to think that was the line according to interviews on talk shows and such.

Yet, when one goes back and looks at the original footage, the line recorded on film is "No, I am your father." Which honestly I never heard until today. And I've seen that move a hundred times at least! It actually sounds kind of wrong and out of place too...

But basically the Mendella effect is called that because apparently half the population honestly remembers Nelson Mendella dying in prison in the eighties....yet that didn't happen according to current history. Just like millions of people remember vividly an iconic line that apparently isn't and never has been what they grew up hearing time and again.

I know it's a relatively small thing...but how could billions of avid fans be wrong about the thing they love most? Same sort of thing happened to Field of Dreams as well.... Everyone remembers the whispered voice saying "if you build it, they will come." But now if you watch it, the voice says "he will come."

I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed incongruities like this. One theory I heard to explain this is that when they fired the Super collider at CERN, they actually destroyed the universe, and everyone's consciousness was simply absorbed into the nearest alternate timeline in which everything more or less is the same, but the universe wasn't ended....

Not sure if I'm on board with that...but considering the power of quantum computing (parallel universes on a chip basically) it wouldn't surprise me if some sort of quantum weirdness was going on.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 10:21:47 PM by mannik »

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2017, 10:44:36 PM »

As a long-time Star Wars fan, I have to say that I never really focused on the bit before the comma.  The important part was always 'I am your father!' 'Nooooooooo!'

And Han shot first.

I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed incongruities like this.

Just like that genie movie with Sinbad.

Just kidding - that was actually a movie with Shaquille O'Neil.

Also, Sherlock Holmes never combined the phrases 'Elementary' and 'my dear Watson' in any of Doyle's books, and Rhett Butler never said 'Frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn.'  (It was 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.')



Offline Egoiste

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2017, 04:42:41 AM »
Quote
Also, Sherlock Holmes never combined the phrases 'Elementary' and 'my dear Watson' in any of Doyle's books, and Rhett Butler never said 'Frankly, Scarlett, I don't give a damn.'  (It was 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.')

Not sure if this one applies but I'm fairly sure no one ever says 'Beam me up, Scotty,' in Star Trek: OST.

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2017, 05:39:16 AM »
Not sure if this one applies but I'm fairly sure no one ever says 'Beam me up, Scotty,' in Star Trek: OST.

And another one....anyone remember silence of the lambs? Specifically the first meeting between Hannibal and Clarece?

Can anyone else remember that creepy way he says "Hello Clarece?" Because apparently that's nowhere in the movie anymore. Now he just says "Good morning"...

And any Disney fans out there? Which line do you remember from watching Snow White when you were younger? Do you remember "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of them all?" Or "Magic mirror on the wall...."?

Oh, how about the scene from the first Terminator where he says "I'll be back?" You know, right before he walks out of the police station and jumps in the cop car and drives it through the building? According to my brother, he doesn't say it anymore. Just gives a mean look instead.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 06:11:28 AM by mannik »

Offline Theta Sigma

  • Liege - Renegade of Time - The Oncoming Storm - ΘΣ - Purveyor of Anthro-Smut
  • Oracle
  • Incarnal
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Location: Gallifrey
  • The dreamer of improbable dreams
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2017, 07:05:47 AM »
I stumbled across this some time last year, and it bothered me. It instantly bothered me. Most of these film quotes have just been misquoted, and that's the version that circulates. You're so used to hearing the misquoted version that the original is unusual and confusing.
Hence where this effect, in the film world at least, originates. ;o

Memory, especially as a person gets older, deteriorates, and eventually the initial memory no longer exists. Instead, you're remembering a time you remembered the memory instead, which I believe is also how events and films get misremembered and messed about. The brain also likes to fudge up and fill in gaps.

There's been many times somebody I believed to be dead is actually alive, and I tend to just chalk that down to my memory, not down to the universe screwing with me.

But, hey, this is only my opinion on all of this. I'd prefer a cooler option, but because I'm just so used to having a shoddy memory, I find myself blaming that.

Online Lustful Bride

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 09:06:33 AM »
While I don't always agree with the armored skeptic, and feel that sometimes he is abit too harsh....but I kind of feel that he is pretty good on describing the Mandella Effect and debunking it.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Offline Ket

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 09:42:23 AM »
I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed incongruities like this. One theory I heard to explain this is that when they fired the Super collider at CERN, they actually destroyed the universe, and everyone's consciousness was simply absorbed into the nearest alternate timeline in which everything more or less is the same, but the universe wasn't ended....

You know, the only time I can understand quantum and theoretical physics is when I listen to that kid talk...

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2017, 10:47:37 AM »
You know, the only time I can understand quantum and theoretical physics is when I listen to that kid talk...

I've been reading a lot of Michael Moorcock recently.  Swapping between infinite multiverses come with the territory.  If you really want to mess with your own head, read his novel/novella 'Flux' (I have it in an omnibus, so I'm not sure of the publication history.)

Offline Ket

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2017, 11:43:25 AM »
I've been reading a lot of Michael Moorcock recently.  Swapping between infinite multiverses come with the territory.  If you really want to mess with your own head, read his novel/novella 'Flux' (I have it in an omnibus, so I'm not sure of the publication history.)

I'm good. While I find the whole subject of quantum anything intriguing, my brain just can't comprehend any of it. The mathematical equations, up to a certain point, those I can understand just fine. But beyond that, I'm a puddle of goo.

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2017, 01:05:57 PM »
I stumbled across this some time last year, and it bothered me. It instantly bothered me. Most of these film quotes have just been misquoted, and that's the version that circulates. You're so used to hearing the misquoted version that the original is unusual and confusing.
Hence where this effect, in the film world at least, originates. ;o

Memory, especially as a person gets older, deteriorates, and eventually the initial memory no longer exists. Instead, you're remembering a time you remembered the memory instead, which I believe is also how events and films get misremembered and messed about. The brain also likes to fudge up and fill in gaps.

There's been many times somebody I believed to be dead is actually alive, and I tend to just chalk that down to my memory, not down to the universe screwing with me.

But, hey, this is only my opinion on all of this. I'd prefer a cooler option, but because I'm just so used to having a shoddy memory, I find myself blaming that.

Thing is, I'm perfectly aware of the inherently untrustworthy mechanisms of memory. It's like xeroxing the last print out from the Xerox machine, Eventually becoming a corrupted and distorted mess after a while.

But I'm not talking about just fond memories. I'm talking about ritual viewings and cult followings....repeated renewal of that memory from source material instead of just copying the memory itself.

I can not count how many times I've heard the clip, both audio and video, of "Luke, I am your father!" Reused in commercials and the source scene linked to on YouTube,  many times.

There are many people who had and probably still will throw viewing parties of those movies every few years. That's a scene that fans like to recite the lines along with the characters...that's probably how this shit even gets noticed in the first place.

And the Hannabal Lecter thing....I remember more than just what he said is what's getting me. I remember the sound of his voice, the look in his eyes, and the way that line made me feel when it was delivered. (Creeped out, but curious how he knew her name at first meeting.) That's why the line sticks out to me specifically. Yet...never happened apparently.

And the thing is...where I am at in my own personal journey of discovering how the world works and my own spiritual existence....I do believe it is entirely possible for consciousness to shift between parallel realities/universes. Especially in the event of catastrophic and instantaneous destruction.

I.e. If you die in a car accident, it's possible you jump to the nearest universe in which you didn't die....might wake up missing a leg or be crippled from the neck down...but not dead. Still experiencing something. Still alive and experiencing. Until all the possibilities are used up, and in no universe do you survive another day longer. After that....well, that's when the afterlife comes in and that's a whole other can of worms that I won't open right now.

I just don't want to believe that humans would be stupid enough to destroy an entire universe just to get some anti-matter....

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2017, 01:11:47 PM »
And the thing is...where I am at in my own personal journey of discovering how the world works and my own spiritual existence....I do believe it is entirely possible for consciousness to shift between parallel realities/universes. Especially in the event of catastrophic and instantaneous destruction.

I.e. If you die in a car accident, it's possible you jump to the nearest universe in which you didn't die....might wake up missing a leg or be crippled from the neck down...but not dead. Still experiencing something. Still alive and experiencing. Until all the possibilities are used up, and in no universe do you survive another day longer. After that....well, that's when the afterlife comes in and that's a whole other can of worms that I won't open right now.

I just don't want to believe that humans would be stupid enough to destroy an entire universe just to get some anti-matter....

Seriously - you're basically summing up (in a general sense) the Eternal Champion motif.  If you haven't already, read some Moorcock, especially some of his less well-known stuff (I have a fairly lengthy list in the '50 books a year challenge' thread.)  Might not want to marathon it, though - personal experience talking here.  ;D

And no, I don't think we're quite dumb enough to destroy the universe.  Or even industrious enough.  That's an awful lot of work.


Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2017, 04:51:34 PM »
Well, according to Einstein, the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits...

Offline Ket

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2017, 04:56:55 PM »
I just don't want to believe that humans would be stupid enough to destroy an entire universe just to get some anti-matter....

Purposefully, most likely no. But no one knew what was going to happen when the LRC was finally fired up for the big tests. Even though they dismissed at as mostly science fiction, scientists working on the project still didn't deny that the theory that a black hole would open up was a possibility. There were just an imperceptible amount of unknowns, that no amount of theorising and calculating (lest one was maybe The Machine), could possibly have come up with. Had they known changing their tests would demolish our universe and send us flying off to a parallel one, they may not have performed the tests. Or maybe they knew, and did it anyway, just to mess with the collective consciousness of the hive mind and see what would happen. An additional experiment, in a way...



And no, I don't think we're quite dumb enough to destroy the universe.  Or even industrious enough.  That's an awful lot of work.

A lot of work that is best left to the Vogons.

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2017, 06:49:01 PM »
Well, thing is....everyone I ask either remembers this stuff wrong, or not at all and can't say what it is anyway... I find that interesting

Offline HannibalBarca

  • Defiant General of Hopeless Causes * Henry Rollins for President campaigner * Mako-phile * Uncle Iroh in shades * Disciple of Dr. Cornel West * Roy Batty lives! *
  • Lord
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Location: At large, am tall. “I will either find a way, or make one.” -- Hannibal Barca
  • Gender: Male
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2017, 07:07:49 PM »
Empire Strikes Back had a pretty big influence on me.  I was 11 or so, going through some things in my life, and I remember very clearly Darth Vader saying, "No...I...am your father."  It was as big a surprise to me as anybody, and I've never felt anything untoward about it as far as memory.  Once the media reports something in error, it gets repeated so many times that the error is likely to replace the original.  That's the simplest explanation for it.

Online Lustful Bride

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2017, 10:07:56 PM »
I just noticed, the title of this thread is misspelled.

Instead of Mandela up above it reads "Mendella" :P

*not sure if its on purpose*

Offline Kythia

  • My smile is like a breath of spring, My voice is soft like summer rain
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Gender: Female
  • And you can not compare with me: Kythia
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2017, 11:25:36 PM »
Not sure if this is a UK specific one, but did you know there's no famous portrait of Henry VIII with a turkey/chicken leg in his hand?

Offline Ket

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2017, 12:33:22 AM »
Not sure if this is a UK specific one, but did you know there's no famous portrait of Henry VIII with a turkey/chicken leg in his hand?

T'would be mighty funny if there was, though!

Offline Prosak

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2017, 02:39:36 PM »
How about the Bernstain bears? People always remember it as Bernstein, but people who look back today are shocked to see it as Bernstain! lol. Honestly the only credible instance of the Mandella effect was the discovery it'self, people legitimately believing and remembering news footage of Joseph Mandela dying in prison. I believe I experienced the Mandela effect first hand once because when I was younger I remember seeing tabloids that said Hulk Hogan was dead, but no one I knew seemed to believe me when I mentioned it days later. Finding out nope, dudes alive. For the most part I think the Mandela effect in movies is just people remembering lines wrong. Since I always remembered it as Frankly my dear, I do not give a dam. And I also always remembered it as "No, I 'AM' your father." But for the most part, the Mandela Effect is just a really neat conspiracy/science theory. With no credibility to back it up. And that is a statement coming from some one who swears up and down and all around he seen Hulk Hogan died on the news 10 years ago.

Offline Blythe

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2017, 02:45:40 PM »
The Berenstain Bears one used to get me all the time. I used to always think of the ending as 'stein' and not 'stain.'

I still mess up and get it wrong every great once in a while--that's how ingrained the mis-remembering is for me for that one!

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2017, 03:09:30 PM »
The Berenstain Bears one used to get me all the time. I used to always think of the ending as 'stein' and not 'stain.'

I still mess up and get it wrong every great once in a while--that's how ingrained the mis-remembering is for me for that one!

The TV show always pronounced it as 'bear en stain', but the spelling was still 'stein'.  I chalk that one up to phonetic spelling on the listener's part.

Offline Kythia

  • My smile is like a breath of spring, My voice is soft like summer rain
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Gender: Female
  • And you can not compare with me: Kythia
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2017, 03:12:03 PM »
Nope


Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2017, 03:29:49 PM »
*stands corrected*  I did remember the pronunciation, though.  ^^;

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2017, 04:33:40 PM »
The Mandela effect is more than just misremembered movie quotes. It's just movies are something watched and loved by millions, so even a slight change is noticed and gives some reference point for the discussion. Some remembering one thing while the rest remember another.

I don't think it's quite as simple as just media spreading a misquote though. Because like I mentioned before, real fans of the movies who've seen them hundreds of times claim to remember the incorrect version. Even the actor himself seems to recall the incorrect line.



I just think it's interesting that if all this is 'real'....then apparently only the original works had changed. All interviews about it, derivative works and spoofs based off it etc. remain unchanged (thus making them reference to something that didn't happen)

But ultimately this sort of thing is impossible to prove definitively one way or the other (reason I figured it should go here in controversies)


Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2017, 05:17:54 PM »
Well, if I could lay hands on a VHS, I do have a copy of the pre-CGI version of the original trilogy...

Offline Prosak

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2017, 06:02:05 PM »
People remembering one thing while others remember another? That sounds like human memory in a but  nut shell to me Lol. :P .  Edit: (Sorry Auto correct did the but :P )

I don't take movie qoates into consideration, it is possible that it can be the Mandela effect. But it is just as possible for it to be bad memory and the spreading of that misinformation causing the bad qoute. You can never know. Only credible events such as a mass amount of people believing somebody died should be taken as credible evidence. There is to much against a miss quote for it to be considered evidence. To much doubt to it's legitimacy. It may as well be just considered circumstantial evidence.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 10:07:27 PM by Prosak »

Offline Various

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2017, 06:41:54 AM »
It has nothing to do with CERN. Such an assertion is foolish. Nelson Mandela DID die in prison in the 1980s, it's just at some point in the 1990s, F.W. de Klerk, beset with guilt, went back in time and changed history so that Mandela not only lived but went on to become the first freely elected president of South Africa. Because of this manipulation of the space time continuum, a few people still remember history as it truly was. THIS is what had a ripple effect, not CERN.

« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 06:52:47 AM by Various »

Offline Skynet

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2017, 07:27:15 PM »
One of the things I don't like about the Mandella Effect is that an alternate history of Mandella never becoming leader of South Africa and a prominent anti-apartheid voice as a result would be a cool setting to explore. But looking up historical What-Ifs always brings me back to folks talking about alternate realities and all that jazz.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 08:33:31 PM by Skynet »

Offline Sirian Eve

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2017, 02:27:49 PM »
I watched a lecture by Dr. Phil Valentine talking about this. Then  I just looked some things  up and realized, yup something doesn't add up.

Jiffy peanut butter indeed.

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2017, 08:00:49 AM »
Well, there are a few things I remember that are different in history now.

The prime one is involving the Pentagon during 9/11. From my prior memory, I recall that the jet liner never even hit the pentagon; no one in it(Pentagon) ever died. Now it says there is 125 fatalities within the Pentagon. Not just me, but several people I know I talked to and they remember similar(on the no death Pentagon thing.)

Another memory is how Houdini died. I recalled that he drowned to death in a fail escape attempt; but apparently he died from a strength test? (What?)

I also remember something quite different involving Al Capone. In this History it says he died in prison. That never happened, he was shot to death near a cinema in Chicago.  I remember this cause I did a report on it a long time ago in school; of course where it is now or if it even exists is another question with changing timelines; or me and many others got whisked away in alternative universe.

Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2017, 10:30:01 AM »
Another memory is how Houdini died. I recalled that he drowned to death in a fail escape attempt; but apparently he died from a strength test? (What?)

Houdini used to invite men to hit him in the stomach to prove how tough he was, since he would react very little, if at all, to the punches.  On one occasion, though, he was telling someone about the punch trick and the man hit him instantly, before Houdini had a chance to brace himself as he usually did.  Supposedly, this caused his appendix to rupture and he later died of peritonitis, though there is disagreement as to whether or not the blow was directly responsible.

About the rest I can't really comment, because so far I seem to remember everything the way it officially happened for some reason.   ::)

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2017, 02:35:12 PM »
Houdini used to invite men to hit him in the stomach to prove how tough he was, since he would react very little, if at all, to the punches.  On one occasion, though, he was telling someone about the punch trick and the man hit him instantly, before Houdini had a chance to brace himself as he usually did.  Supposedly, this caused his appendix to rupture and he later died of peritonitis, though there is disagreement as to whether or not the blow was directly responsible.

About the rest I can't really comment, because so far I seem to remember everything the way it officially happened for some reason.   ::)

Ah, good old iron body technique. Wasn't aware Houdini knew kung fu. :P

But yeah, I seem to remember him drowning attempting the inverted water escape (ankles bound to the top of a tank with him suspended upside down in a straight jacket. That's supposedly why the trick is so damned famous. But one thing I can say about magicians in general...you can't really trust a damned thing they say or claim, especially about the tricks they are about to perform.

They often describe that trick as the one that killed Houdini....then do it without any problem.


Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2017, 04:14:00 PM »
Ah, good old iron body technique. Wasn't aware Houdini knew kung fu. :P

But yeah, I seem to remember him drowning attempting the inverted water escape (ankles bound to the top of a tank with him suspended upside down in a straight jacket. That's supposedly why the trick is so damned famous. But one thing I can say about magicians in general...you can't really trust a damned thing they say or claim, especially about the tricks they are about to perform.

They often describe that trick as the one that killed Houdini....then do it without any problem.

Funny - https://www.thegreatharryhoudini.com/watertorture.html

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2017, 09:07:53 PM »
Few others I found from compiled list, only listing ones I recall. List can be found here, maybe some will notice others that I wasn't too familiar with/sure on. And there are probably other web lists out there. https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffect/comments/4kba52/ill_constantly_update_a_list_for_you_guys_to/

(Cleaning Product name change.)Febreeze/Febreze
(Cleaning Product name change.)Oxy Clean/Oxi Clean
(Celebrity Actor name change.)Nicholas Cage/Nicolas Cage
(Cereal name change.)Fruit Loops/Froot Loops
(T.V Show name change.)Merry Melodies/Merrie Melodies
(Movie Quote change.)"Luke, I am your father."/"No, I am your father."
(Movie Quote change.)"Do you feel lucky? Well do you punk?"/"Do I feel lucky? Well do you punk?"
(Movie Quote change.)"If you build it, they will come."/"If you build it, he will come."
(Movie Quote change.)"Mrs. Robinson, are you trying to seduce me?"/"Mrs. Robinson, you're trying to seduce me. Aren't you?
(Movie Quote change.)"Fly my pretties."/"Fly! Fly! Fly!"
("Made Up" Movie Quote.)"Beam me up Scotty" isn't actually said in Star Trek.
(Movie Quote change.)"Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?"/"Magic mirror on the wall, who is the fairest one of all?"
(New Geography.)Some don't remember the Southern Ocean
(Fictional Character name change.)Smokey The Bear/Smokey Bear
(Store name change.)Home Depot/The Home Depot
(New T.V Shows.)You might remember The Brady Bunch, but some don't remember The Brady Brides, The Bradys, The Brady Bunch Variety Hour, and The Brady Kids Cartoon existing.
(Real Life Quote change.)"Houston, we have a problem."/"Houston, we've had a problem."
(Soft drink name change.)Mellow Yellow/Mello Yello
(Gum name change.)Double Bubble/Dubble Bubble
(Spelling change.)Cemetary/Cemetery
(History change.)The Lindbergh was actually found dead 3 weeks after the kidnapping even though some say the Lindbergh baby was never found.
(Fictional Character Appearance change.)Many never remembered C3P0 having a silver leg.
(Song Lyrics change.)"It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood."/"It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood."
(T.V Show name change.)Sex In The City/Sex And The City
(Fictional Character Appearance change.)Curious George doesn't have a tail, but some remembered him having one.
(Food Product name change.)Jiffy Peanut Butter/Jif Peanut Butter
(Cleaning Product name change.)Draino/Drano
(Cereal name change.)Captain Crunch/Cap'n Crunch
(Geography change.)The Bermuda Triangle is much closer to the shore than people remember it being.
(Geography change.)The Statue of Liberty is closer to the New Jersey shore than the New York shore.
(Famous War Criminal Appearance change.)Hitler's eye color changed from brown to blue according to some people.
(History change.)There's always been a 1942 bombing of Oregon people don't remember existing.
(History change.)Some have no clue what the Toledo War is.
(Movie Quote change.)"We're gonna need a bigger boat."/"You're gonna need a bigger boat."
(History change.)Tank man wasn't crushed, he actually survived.
(Movie Scene change.)Ending to Charlie Brown Great Pumpkin where they see the Great Pumpkin rise/They see Snoopy's shadow.
(Geography that doesn't exist.) Arctica exists now./Arctica doesn't exist.
(T.V Show name change.)Mr Rodger's Neighborhood/Mr Roger's Neighborhood
(History change.)Some people remember Thomas Moore being president.
(Anatomy change.)Heart is closer to center while some recall it on the left.
(Anatomy change.)The rib cage is smaller and higher than people remember.
(Movie Quote change.)"So, this is how democracy dies?"/"So, this is how liberty dies?"
(Cereal Logo change.)Kellogg's logo no longer has rooster head.
(Event Date change.)Thanksgiving is later in November than before.
(Movie change.)The Childlike Empress is now never mentioned in The Neverending Story.(Except at the end in the credits, people claim to have heard her mentioned in the movie itself, not just the credits.)
(Movie Quote change.)"Wherever shall I go? Whatever shall I do?"/"Where shall I go? What shall I do?"
(Earth or space change.)Sun gives off what people call a whiter more artificial looking light than the yellow light they remember.

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2017, 09:24:29 PM »
To be fair, the 'Bermuda Triangle' isn't precisely defined.  You'll hear that it's got one point 'on' Bermuda, but any disappearance in that general region of the Atlantic gets attributed to 'The Triangle'.

(I think Charles Berlitz also proposed that there were 11 other 'triangles' located roughly at the points of an inscribed icosahedron, including the North and South polar regions, and an area in the Sea of Japan.)

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2017, 09:49:09 AM »
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 09:27:25 PM by Blythe »

Offline Sirian Eve

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2017, 10:07:18 AM »
Interview with a Vampire is now Interview with the Vampire.

I was digging around in my basement yesterday to look for things to donate. I found an old dream journal which referred to the movie and it also says Interview with a Vampire.

Offline Cookie

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2017, 02:03:50 PM »


Shazam  O:)

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2017, 01:16:11 AM »
In fairness, a lot of the changes are very superficial and can be considered as rebranding (Febreeze), reprinting (Interview with the Vampire) or just plain old mistakes (Field of Dreams actually says "If you build it, they will come" and then "If you build it, he will come", at one point he believed it was about a particular dude played by Earl Jones, another time they thought it might be his father... they was both the Ray Liotta team and another time it was about the people who would come in droves as prophesied by Jones in terms of keeping the farm alive, etc). Misquotes and repetitions and such can be what contributes to a whole mess of the problems listed as being part of the Mandela effect. And some things are just us learning better or having better news at our fingertips than before, and frankly with the disparity in education between U.S. states, the pre-internet crowd can't really afford to be too precious about what they've learned.

Nobody wants this to be true more than me, I promise, since it would be a whole lot of fun to explore what this means for the definition of human experience, life, consciousness, possibilities and that one stupid Jet Li movie I never could make myself forget so long after I first watched it (and not Romeo Must Die like -I- voted for). The reality of the matter is, though, that there are precious few examples of the Mandela Effect that can't be reasonably explained by gaps in memory, gaps in knowledge and miscommunication as well as the fact that some things (like logos and brand names) are subject to change without anyone noticing and they're not really preserved for posterity because, honestly, who has old cans of Febreeze sitting around and isn't slated to be featured on Hoarders?

While the implications would be fantastic to write about and there is a slew of other "proof" that exists in the world, there are just too many holes in an already flimsy hypothesis for me to believe that it has any merit beyond fodder for conspiracy theorists (Even though the Sinbad/Shaq thing still bothers me, yeah, I swear I saw the original but despite a few stills being absolutely clear in my mind, I can't remember key components of it). Now, if someone could bring me evidence that could hold its own without any propping up by other supposed-"proof", I'd be willing to look for a cause. As it is now? I've gotta go with heavy skepticism.

On the other hand, if anyone wants to write a story about it, now THAT I'm down for.

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2017, 08:31:09 AM »
There are geographical changes. Japan has apparently moved, I never recall it being that far up near Russia. The old Japan used to be a bit further down. Also Iceland(think it is called, the one close to Australia?) has moved down. It used to be up in the right corner from Aussie, not below it in the bottom right, but on every map I look at it has changed.




Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2017, 08:41:00 AM »
There are geographical changes. Japan has apparently moved, I never recall it being that far up near Russia. The old Japan used to be a bit further down. Also Iceland(think it is called, the one close to Australia?) has moved down. It used to be up in the right corner from Aussie, not below it in the bottom right, but on every map I look at it has changed.

That's most likely because there are several different ways of mapping, and each of them is going to produce a slightly different-looking map.  Since you're projecting a three-dimensional object onto a two-dimensional piece of paper, there will always be errors and distortions compared to globes.  Sometimes some types of map are more popular and sometimes others become more trendy, so maps printed in different years are bound to look slightly different.

And it's New Zealand near Australia, not Iceland.  ;)

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2017, 09:13:20 AM »
That's most likely because there are several different ways of mapping, and each of them is going to produce a slightly different-looking map.  Since you're projecting a three-dimensional object onto a two-dimensional piece of paper, there will always be errors and distortions compared to globes.  Sometimes some types of map are more popular and sometimes others become more trendy, so maps printed in different years are bound to look slightly different.

And it's New Zealand near Australia, not Iceland.  ;)

No, I am saying every map is the same now, not how I remember it. Even Japan from before on maps I recall was placed different, but now it doesn't look that way on almost any map I googled; even older ones. The same with the mention NZ. Japan has never been that far north, it has never been that close to Russia.  Japan was further down south from N/S Korea, I don't remember it being that close and I vaguely recall N/S Korea being where it is now as well.

The youtube video has been the only one so far with good residue I found of the other World.

Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2017, 09:37:03 AM »
When I was a kid, my dad had a globe that I used to study and a huge atlas that I loved to page through -- yes, I was a strange child -- and honestly, nothing's moved.  Japan has always been quite far north -- they get snow, so they can't be too far south.  And they were always close to Russia, easily close enough for ships to sail over in the days when sailors didn't like to leave the sight of land, as happened with the attempted Mongol invasions of Japan.

Someone mentioned Interview with the Vampire earlier.  I used to work in a bookstore and you wouldn't believe how often and how badly people mangle book titles and authors' names.  Even when they came in with a carefully written note they'd still get it wrong and sometimes you practically had to be a mind reader to figure out what they actually wanted compared to what they were asking for.

I guess I don't get this entire concept.  :/  Why is it easier to believe that the entire world has shifted slightly rather than accept that not everyone has a photographic memory?  If you can forget your best friend's birthday, your grocery list, and where you parked your car, why is it so odd to think that you might also remember things from your childhood incorrectly?  There hasn't been a single thing mentioned here that I've remembered differently from the 'current' way, though admittedly there are some I can't comment on.  I never saw several of the movies mentioned, for instance, so I don't know about any misquotes from Field of Dreams or the animated Alice in Wonderland.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 10:13:33 AM by Valerian »

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2017, 10:31:59 AM »
Part of the problem with relying on maps to prove or disprove the Mandela Effect is that when it comes down to it, as Valerian said, it's almost impossible to rely on the information you thought you got. For instance, if someone remembers a map showing Japan in a different place, that can easily be explained by a number of things. Firstly, depending where you are, the published maps will be different. U.S. maps are notorious for showing the U.S. as incredibly huge compared to literally everything around it, like Canada and pretty much all of the continent of South America when Canada alone is a third again as large without taking into account the aquatic territory in and around the continent. By default, due to limited space in print, this relegates other continents to smaller spaces, which promotes warping not only of the continents themselves but the spaces between them and around the waterways.

Furthermore, those in the northern hemisphere are guilty of giving a very "top down" view of the world, which in turn warps the placement of the southern oceans. There's also the fact that as technology increases (think satellite imagery) things that were always assumed to be true can now be verified or corrected. let's also not forget that historically speaking, humanity has a penchant for ornate industry and maps have never been an exception to this. On the contrary, they are often the key examples of utilitarian tools being refurbished as highly ornate but useless decorative pieces.

So, because of these things, it is highly possible that your memory is not flawed but that the source material from which you learned (likely at the hands of a teacher, in a school or from personally-owned hard copies from home) is somehow inaccurate. Either by design or by a flaw in said design.

Whatever the case, it is still not compelling enough an argument for me to believe in this alternate timeline hypothesis, as the evidence does not bear up to scrutiny.




~~~~~(((**It should also be pointed out that watching a video or listening to someone speaking the evidence out loud has the ability to manipulate your memory. Studies of peoples' memory has often suggested that information can be "rewritten" in the minds of subjects merely by repeating an erroneous fact, leading to the assumption that the asserted information was not only always true, but that the individual receiving the information remembers it quite clearly as erroneously presented. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3183109/ in Post-Event Misinformation**)))~~~~~

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2017, 11:37:48 AM »
It doesn't change the movement of areas. I remember Russia and China sharing a border as well, but now it has freaking Mongolia in the middle of it.

Believe whatever ya'll want. I am not the only one that shares these views, just google Mandela effect involving geographical changes. Hell google ME involving a lot of things.

I know how most of the world was outlined in my reality, it isn't my mind playing tricks on me, it isn't memory rewriting. Geographical alternations, movie quotes, brand names, product shifts, etc have change. In one of the old James Bond movies, the metal mouth villain, there is a peculiar scene at the end. It involves Dolly helping the villain after Bond beats him. He smiles, showing his metal jaw like mouth and she smiles back showing braces. Well, guess what, she doesn't have braces now in the movie. There is even a commercial tributing to this that still exists with a bank spin off, where a huge guy enters the bank looking intimidating. Instead he is nice and asks about the mini card, the cashier answers him and smiles, showing braces; which was referencing the old James Bond movie.

I also remember Monopoly man having a monocle so does Ace Ventura.



I know my memory can't make this up, and there are many others again that share similar memories of events that apparently didn't happen in this reality. Of course for those that remember it the other way, this may just seem crazy talk, but I know what I seen and watched and I also know the map doesn't look the same.

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2017, 11:46:57 AM »
Dude.  Mongolia has always been there.  Little Oni has a nerd-on for the Mongols, and I have personally read books with print dates in the 1800's involving the Mongols while helping her research papers.  Why the hell do you think the Chinese built that wall in the first place?

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2017, 11:51:44 AM »


That is Mongolia I remember, after doing some browsing. China and Russia SHARED A BORDER. Now NORTH KOREA is sharing a BORDER WITH to the RIGHT OF MONGOLIA WITH RUSSIA.

That never happened in my world.

Edit, nevermind was looking at another map? Could of sworn I saw a chunk of North Korea up there next to Mongolia.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 11:54:45 AM by Drake Valentine »

Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2017, 11:55:28 AM »
Memory absolutely can and does make this sort of thing up all the time.  I minored in psychology and memory is constantly being rewritten -- it isn't at all the simple recording device people tend to think of it as.  Every time a memory is recalled, it's altered.  This can and has been proven.  Also, Russia and China DO share a border, it's just never been one long contiguous border because Mongolia has always been there.  The inset map on your graphic is completely off and practically a cartoon, but the larger version below does properly show Mongolia.

http://www.skeptic.com/insight/the-mandela-effect/
https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_loftus_the_fiction_of_memory

And to address your other specific examples:

https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/moonraker-dolly-did-not-wear-braces
http://www.cracked.com/article_24565_hard-truth-time-monopoly-guy-never-had-monocle.html

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2017, 11:56:42 AM »
In fairness, Oniya, his point is that (true to the hypothesis of the Mandela Effect), the world would always have looked like this to some people while others would always remember something having been different. The concept is that some people have undergone a shift in dimension, dropping them in a world subtly different than the one they remember as a child.

Unfortunately, I still maintain that none of the evidence presented is strong enough to convince me that this is real as opposed to simply a confused memory for whatever reason, whether it be faulty source information, incorrect recall or cultural bias. Since the original question was what we believe and not attacking D.V. or defending our point of view from his insistence, I don't think we really need to come to verbal blows over it, do we?

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2017, 12:04:28 PM »
Now I remember, Mongolia wasn't that big as it is today.

Mongolia was to the east of China, less than half the size it is now, a sort of football-shape, and on coast of China. Not between China and Russia.

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2017, 12:14:47 PM »
Is it possible you mixed it up with some other nation? Or that your memory of the map is simply incorrect?

If not, can you provide some sort of supporting evidence for it? Not simply the insistence that it was different, but an example of why you remember or some image/writing/etc to support your idea?

Otherwise, every individual in the world is forced to choose between believing because of lack of evidence, disbelieving because of lack of evidence or simply dismissing it all as a figment of your imagination.

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2017, 12:16:11 PM »
It is hard to provide evidence when most of the world has shifted. Digging things up isn't easy.

However I did dig this up on Dolly.

http://www.universalexports.net/Movies/moonraker-cast.shtml

Quote
Dolly
Played by: Blanche Ravalec

Description: In perhaps the strangest love affair in the series, Jaws meets Dolly in Rio after his failed attempt on Bond and Goodhead's lives. The complete opposite of Jaws, Dolly is a short blond girl with pigtails, glasses and braces. It is her influence that leads Jaws to the side of good and she also hears the one line Jaws says in his two movies, "Well, here's to us."

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2017, 12:33:38 PM »
Well, when the allegation is that the dimensions have shifted. There is as yet no scientific evidence of this.

Okay, so there's the bit about the braces. I'm afraid that I've spent most of my life avoiding Bond movies, so can you find a clip where that doesn't happen and hasn't been edited?

Remembering of course that edits to movies happen all the time, even when they're already released. I point out the Star Wars franchise, movies edited down for TV, director's cuts, extended footage scenarios.... etc.

Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2017, 12:41:39 PM »
Try this link: https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/moonraker-dolly-did-not-wear-braces

There's zero evidence for the actress having worn braces.  None of the still shots taken on set show her with braces.  That's a classic case of the memory playing tricks.

The problem here is that any time anyone offers contrary evidence, all you have to do is say that you KNOW it was different before and you KNOW you're remembering it right and other people's memories don't count. That makes a logical discussion difficult.

If there's actually some sort of universe-shifting going on, though -- not exactly the Occam's Razor explanation, but assuming that's the case -- how is it that we're all apparently in the same universe now, able to compare notes on these things?  Shouldn't the people with the opposing memories all be together on some alternate Earth?

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2017, 12:49:47 PM »
From what I understand, the hypothesis states that when universes "bump" into each other, some lives are displaced. Cited examples are often of people who go to work after fifteen years at a company only to discover that there is no record of them at all, that there is no home for them, no evidence of their existence at all and yet they are very clearly present, oftentimes carrying with them documentation such as drivers licenses and birth certificates that seem to make a legitimate claim. In other cases, there are people claiming whole countries existed only twelve hours prior but are caught in airports and the like with no place to return to and the citizen of nowhere, despite having documentation such as passports and the like. Again, I can only say that these are theoretical because I do not know of any official recognition of these people, and spies cannot be ruled out, nor can urban legends.

That said, I do understand that you are correct, logical discussion of the subject is difficult when the only evidence for or against a case can be summed up as being within the minds of the people making the claim. Unfortunately, in the scientific community, those making a claim are responsible for providing proof.

I do want to point out, however, that there was some evidence, however unsubstantiated, that the universe we know MIGHT have "bumped" into another universe, supporting the multiverse hypothesis, just recently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/05/17/first-evidence-multiverse-scientists-think-cold-spot-space-could/
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/06/01/scientists-may-have-found-evidence-parallel-universe.html
http://www.newsweek.com/multiverse-evidence-parallel-universe-cold-spot-cmb-618735
http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/nerdcore/another-universe-may-have-bumped-into-ours-and-we-might-have-proof/vp-BBDwYFd

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2017, 01:01:08 PM »
Also youtube videos on more residue from reality I remember.







Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2017, 01:13:17 PM »
I have seen a lot of YouTube videos about this, but none of them have changed my mind, since they cannot provide an example that cannot be explained. More to the point, I've also seen a lot of videos about how Aliens are spiking the drinking water in major cities to turn people gay and how the earth is flat, so I can't really take a lot of them seriously. More accurately, however, I can't take them as absolute proof and must remain skeptical since none of them tend to be verifiable and rarely if ever cite sources.

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2017, 01:18:12 PM »


Enjoy 20 minutes.

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2017, 01:20:14 PM »
Yeah, I've seen that one already, unfortunately.

Once again, there is nothing there that can't be explained by perfectly reasonable means. Often when they say "undeniable" they mean that their critical thinking skills are unsupported by pesky things like data, analysis and instead enjoy a hefty dose of confirmation bias.

Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2017, 01:40:07 PM »
Did you happen to click on any of the links I posted, Drake?  The TED talk in particular was very interesting, I thought.

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2017, 02:20:46 PM »
It isn't false memories. There has been a shift somewhere or some distortion in realities. Of course the only proof lingering is the many others out there that share similar, it is impossible to believe that so many people will share equally distorted memories of events, locations, images, etc.

Who knows. Maybe CERN killed everyone with their project and now we are experiencing a merge of realities. Maybe dimensions clashed. Maybe we are living in a holographic world. Maybe me and a good portion of the world is crazy.

We are just at an impasse of different realities. I expect in your reality the Lindbergh baby was found dead and the person was arrested where in my reality the case was never solved, ever.

In my reality no one died inside the pentagon attack during 911, but here apparently 125 died.
In my reality the Black Tom event involving the Statue of Liberty never happened. I imagined something so major would of been taught in history class, but this is first I ever heard of it when browsing videos.
In my reality there was only one great wall and that was China, there was never a great wall of India as well. (How mysterious something so big and major poof out of no where, considering it is the second largest wall in history?)
In my reality placement of continents are different than they are here, this is not from false perception of former globes or maps existing today.
In my reality only four people were in JFK car during the assassination, not six.
Human anatomy looks different to me as well. The intestines were never that jumble of a mess. The heart is apparently now in the center when it used to be on the left, and seems bigger? Eyes have bones behind the socket when before I am sure it was just cartilage. Ribs looks much different as well, freaky so.

Of course there are those odd ones that rise up about the traffic lights being actually reverse. I never remember that, I always remember red, yellow, green. Not green, yellow, red. And the change of water from hot and cold, but they seem the same to me as they had been.

I can go on and on, but hey, finding concrete evidence is hard when there has been obvious parallel shifts with only so much residue lingering about and what residue that is found is just passed off as implausible proof to something else.

So where do I stand?

Apparently there are two realities. This one and the one I am from, both can be said true, but those that may be in this one may find it hard believing otherwise. Sounds crazy, no? How do you think I feel personally when I realize that the world I live in is at present a lie compared to the one I likely came from? Which makes me question just how long have I been living in a ME effected world, till starting to notice it now? I am sure many other people that experiencing similar are having their thoughts as joggled up as mine. Cause part of me is torn in wanting to keep pursuing the truth of it, to see other notable changes that have been made examples all over youtube while another part just wants to forget it all and go with the flow of the new world.

All and all, nothing else has changed in my daily life cycle, work and life are the same. Who knows, maybe there are other glitches in the Matrix that I have yet to notice, well besides some of the more obvious ones of changes in products and minor alternations of place names; but nothing big and flaming red flag has rose yet where I live to raise a brow. Or well, without my present knowledge; besides anatomy differences and well, a birthmark I once had on my left hand being gone. The birthmark itself looked like a cigarette burn mark, which I had all my life, but poof. No pencil-eraser size circle and distorted skin where it should be; nothing, but I guess I imagine that as well or it just healed up and went away finally after 30 so years.

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #61 on: August 07, 2017, 03:42:21 PM »
Firstly, I would refute terminology such as "obvious" when by its very nature the Mandela effect is not obvious.

However, I would stand to point out that I have never heard about Black Tom, anything about a Pentagon attack at all in 9/11, never heard of the Great Wall of India. I'd also never heard of the Alamo before I was twenty five. None of these things is proof of anything aside from gaps in education. It is not impossible to believe that there are cases of mass memory change or hysteria. It's actually been well-documented.

How does the Mandela effect account for people who remember the common memory of one thing and the "alternate" memory of another thing? Is it more lilely it is a dimensional shift/some sort of inconsistently-shared death dream or that repetition of erroneous facts/rebranding/changes that never needed defending are being brought under strange scrutiny by conspiracy theorists? There are too many assumptions that have to be made in irder to believe in the Mandella effect.

Traffic lights are arranged differently in different countries and the colour blind often mistake them, not to mention how rural communities prior to a certain date commonly used their own arrangement. There are well-documented cases of birthmarks fading or disappearing over time, and of people failing to realize changes in things they are used to seeing until it is drastic. These fail to prove much, honestly.

I understand that feeling out of place in the world is an unhappy state of being, but being unable to prove or disprove the Mandela effect, I'm hesitant to use words such as "obvious" and "definite" and "undeniable" because this gets in the way of having meaningful discussion on the subject (or any subject). When it comes down to it, where does a believer draw the line between alternate universe and faulty memory? What's to stop them from simply claiming they are never wrong, only out of place? This is a dangerous tack to take and leads to all sorts of issues if you cannot accept the possibility that one is incorrect.

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #62 on: August 07, 2017, 09:04:56 PM »
For starters the ME is not a conspiracy. How can it be a conspiracy when other people remember similar things different? How can it be a conspiracy when there is no actual plotting/conspiring or unlawful/harmful intentions? The ME is about people who express views of experiencing something much different than they remembering, alternate truths to whatever present truths exist. Does this make them wrong? In this reality, yes; but when many of their views and memories align with my reality, then no. Is this reality wrong? Why, yes, for those of us that now finally awaken to it with memories of an alternate reality, but at the same time it is apparently right with what evidence exists to support changes in events, locations, anatomy, etc.  Sounds crazy, no? Of course it does, even to me, but its true on my end.

I decided to google around involving disappearing birthmarks, most spots and likewise I notice vanish during childhood. I have not found anything stating otherwise involving adulthood of the disappearance of marks from pigmented birthmarks. Most of the ones listed didn't really reflect the type I had, so at most I assume it to be a different type of mole since it states they range in color and mine was a lighter hue. Kind of like a missing layer of skin, I guess, that would generally heal over time in its appearance, but I had it since childhood, I remember it in my teens, in my late twenties. Now it is gone.

 From what I read about moles, over time they seem to fade away; but that doesn't explain complete disappearing. If it was faded, I would be able to notice its presence still in the general location it supposedly should be, instead, all skin looks the same there on the surface. I have other darker spots further down my arm that had always been there and still are, although the larger, pencil-eraser size one that had been further up my hand is completely gone.

If anything, I am just surprise others here not listing any of their experiences more. Or maybe they fear of ridicule or being deemed crazy? Personally, I don't care what people think/believe. Your views are your own. Proving ME is no different then proving an existence of a higher power in whatever religion one may put their faith in. Simply it can't be done, no matter how much back and forth we go about this. Since it can just be passed off as either 'faulty memories,' 'improper citations,' or any other 'bad evidence presentation.' 

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2017, 09:38:11 PM »
I'm afraid that convincing me that truth is subjective is going to be a very hard sell. Part of what makes it truth is that it's objective. With that out of the way, you can claim it all you like, but that doesn't make it true, much like any other issue the world faces in terms of perspective.

A conspiracy theory might have been a lazy, catch-all phrase. However, I don't believe that the heart of the matter is any different. In the end, the concept of "alternate truths" is just as ludicrous as when Conway said it. Alternative truths, alternative facts, these are simply called lies or false, depending on whether one wishes to add the connotation of responsibility.

Every piece of evidence can be explained by scientifically verified methods and phenomena we're already well familiar with. What, then, makes this Mandela Effect, particularly with the fervor you communicate, any different than an unfortunate religious blindness? There are those who speak of the absolute nature of "god", for instance, and insist that morality is subject to this god's whims and therefore reliant on adherence to this god's principles. How is that different from insisting that the Mandela Effect has to be true and that those of us who accept misremembering, miseducation, etc. are merely flaws in our mentality must accept that it is a truth? It is, until verified, merely a hypothesis.

This is the trouble I have with many things. People water down phrases like "proof", "evidence", "theory" and it doesn't mean what they think it means. Pointing to a lot of things and saying "These aren't how I thought they were, so we must live in an alternate timeline" doesn't make it believable. It's must more likely that "these are not as I thought they were, therefore I must be wrong about some things and too stubborn to admit it so I've concocted/bought into a theory that makes me look like a victim and not mistaken". To be clear, I am not stating that this is true of you, in particular, in any fashion. However, I believe that is more likely to be true than the alternative.

To be clear, you're saying that it's a mole that has disappeared, that "would generally heal over time in its appearance"?

I think you're right in the case that ME can't, at least at this point, be proven. We simply don't have the tools to do so. But in the end, when SO MANY of the same experiences are listed... I mean, how many times have you watched the videos about the Mandela Effect and suddenly thought "hey, yeah, I know that one, it's the same for me!" You don't have to answer, I suspect that it is a high number, however, as it always seems to be with believers of any outlandish hypothesis. Given that, there are probably many who get Berenstain Bears mixed around (as shown earlier), or what have you... But most people aren't going to recognize something that looks so close to a mental miscalculation. For instance, if I were to buy a bottle of Febreze, I probably wouldn't notice what the bottle actually SAID and would end up throwing it away. If someone mentioned it to me, I might think "Oh, yeah, didn't that used to have another E in it?" "No, just the one," says friend, and I shrug and throw it away anyhow.

No gigantic moment of epiphany, no sudden subscription to a society of people comparing notes. In fact, I likely wouldn't think of the Mandela Effect unless someone actually said those specific words. Most people tend to react to memory gaps with a flippant disregard because we are already aware that our brains are utterly and deeply imperfect, only storing a small percentage of information correctly and filling in the details around it better. It's a method of data compression and is not unknown to most of those who have ever opened a ZIP folder.

What you insist are memories of the Mandela Effect might simply be things others categorize as trivial lapse in memory, and it's very likely that an extremely small number of people actually put faith in the Mandela Effect. Generally speaking, I've found correlation between the numbers of religious, conspiracy theorists, conservatives and those who believe in the Mandela Effect. It tends to draw in a certain type of individual. Creative writing and roleplaying, however, tends to lean towards the different circle of science enthusiasts, music lovers, liberals and disbelievers in the Mandela Effect. Of course, not everyone will be neatly categorized thusly, but I'm confident that a venn diagram will show heavy overlap in those areas.

It's entirely possible that you're finding yourself in a position where you are one of relatively few who have experienced anything they would ascribe to the Mandela Effect, more likely that they have put their faith in the concept of scientific explanations and not the doomsday thought process that a very, very, extremely small chance the supercollider has somehow killed all of us, or the smaller still idea of merging universes, and instead reached for an explanation that is scientifically supported, that has been in the process of study and reinforcement for decades before the Mandela Effect was even a thought. It is possible that our a few of us have one or maybe two stories, fewer still have a slew and most of us don't put stock in it with perfectly reasonable explanations so near to hand that can only be foiled by the stubborn insistence that we are not wrong. Against all evidence to the contrary.

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2017, 12:15:30 AM »
Except for the fact that many people just can't suddenly remember a phrase or paraphrase in a movie that is no longer there or was never there in the first place. Phrases that don't exist, such as the Matrix quote. I remember Morpheus telling Neo clearly the 'What if I told you, everything you ever thought or said was a lie. That the world you know around you is nothing more than an illusion, part of a much greater Matrix. --- " There is a bit more, maybe it is worded differently, but it went something like that. I just can't fully recall the complete sentences back then, but it was during the scene involving the taking of the pills; where Neo had to choose between the blue and red. Of course now that convo has been completely erased in the movie.

There are a lot of What if I told you Meme's with Morpheous picture out there. There is also an article somewhere in 2012 referencing movie quotes involving famous memes.

http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/articles/8-movie-quotes-became-memes

Closer to the bottom regarding the Matrix one.

Yes, I can understand maybe some words in movie phrases such as Interview with A vampire and Interview with THE vampire could be mix as could Sex AND the City or Sex IN the city. Or classic Life WAS like a box or chocolate or Life IS like a box of chocolates.

Conjuring up complete phrases that were never there? Why would people go through trouble making a meme of something that was never actually said? Why would people insist of it becoming a meme as it was a popular Morpheus phrase from the movie?  Sounds like a lot of trouble and effort to me.

As for the mole, yes it was a mole. A light skin pigmentation altering. Of course such personally experiences are generally referenced as 'glitches in the matrix', than that of ME. MEs generally involve more widely known things of culture than personal changes that Matrix Glitches are known for. But I haven't found anywhere about moles fully disappearing, unless you know of some better citation links on such. The healing over time was a reference to skin injuries as I was trying to give a better example of its appearance, its texture/view had always appeared to be like a small layer of missing skin. You know, the type if you ever scrape your body and get a scab and if you peel the scab you see that soft pink? Instead it was a whiter hue that been there for many years and no I never scraped that part. It had been something I always had since childhood and adult hood. Not any more, not even outline or nothing. The only info on moles I found was that they 'nearly' fade away. By nearly, they don't completely fade away, there should be still some residue or outline of it being there, but instead my skin is completely normal in that spot.

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2017, 12:37:33 AM »
Conjuring up complete phrases that were never there? Why would people go through trouble making a meme of something that was never actually said? Why would people insist of it becoming a meme as it was a popular Morpheus phrase from the movie?  Sounds like a lot of trouble and effort to me.

Because people are bored.

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2017, 12:38:28 AM »
See, that's another thing. The Neo line. I remember hearing it paraphrased by memes, quotes, various ways that people repeated it, shortened it down so that it would be recognizeable and thinking "That's funny, that's not the way it was actually said in the movie." And I've noticed that a few times. People who thought the Star Wars quote was off... for example, I remembered the original quote just fine (I didn't see the movie till I was like, seven or something) and then I remembered people putting the "Luke" bit in afterward, mostly so that people would know where the quote came from. And I'm certain that those examples can account for - if not all - a great number of the problems we're seeing crop up. Someone repeats it a certain way, it becomes a famous misquote made to make identifying the reference easier, and now people fill in the missing pieces of memory (which we've established is imperfect and functions this way) with the information they thought they had. Meanwhile, it's simply not that way. It never was, it's just a case of people badly remembering it for the sake of pop culture.

If it was a justifiable case of the Mandela Effect, how would I still have a memory of the right way to say it while people around me followed the yellow brick road into madness and I maintained the right memory of the real way to do it even as people around me are now freaking out because they've been misquoting it this whole time and I WITNESSED THEM DO IT? How can you look to me and say it's justified then?

You'd be surprised what sort of effort people will go to in order to convince themselves of something that doesn't actually exist. I... I feel like this is a case of tragic irony.

I'm not entirely certain I'm buying the concept of reality being a hologram or program or whatever the Matrix would be classified as, and I've heard a few hypotheses about this, too. I think people want things to be so much like the entertainment they consume that they fabricate problems that were never there. It's a fun thought as far as being creative goes, but I feel like it's growing into an alarming case of mass delusions predicated on mistakes that were made and now people have let it go too far and they can't seem to own up to them.

When I was a child (four? Five?) I had convinced myself the world was populated by tiny little one-inch-high elves that were divided by "green" and "blue" and "red" elves (think more Rice Krispies and less Tolkien), and some were good and some were evil and some were in charge of keeping the balance. And there were three elves that were about three feet high, almost exactly the same as the rest except they were the grandfather elves and that my friend was wrapped up in this and possessed by the elves... I believed it so much I started having nightmares about them, started having panic attacks, freaked out... all over the course of a few weeks. Obviously now, I can look back on it and see what happened, but in the case of the moment when I was thinking of it, it was all way too real and I had created it for myself. But I believed it, including places I had never been and things I had never done and I was absolutely convinced it had all happened.

I'm not seeing much by way of difference between the two occurrences.

The Jackalope. Remember that monstrosity? From Americas Funniest People? "Fast as fast can be, you'll never catch me!" For years I thought I'd made it up because no one I'd talked to had any clue what I was talking about. Same with Astro Boy. Then, the internet came around, they remade Astro Boy and here I was congratulating myself for a job well done in retaining those memories. It's terribly easy for us to fool our minds, one way or another. It's terribly easy to remind ourselves of things that never happened, because each time you recall a memory, it gets fuzzier. Distorted. Largely because we're actually only recalling the last time we recalled the memory, not the actual master copy itself.

So, if I tell someone that, for instance, I remember Captain Planet having a sixth member for a few seasons, and they barely remember the show, and I start to describe something in vivid detail I can actually convince them that they saw a sixth member of the show. I can convince them that Captain Planet had six members and then the Cap, and they'll swear up and down that I'm right, that's absolutely how it worked, because we both remember it. Really, they're only remembering my re-write of the memory they had. A corruption in the software, as it were. A faulty program.

An incorrect memory.

As for birth marks, I'll have to look into it with the new information, I'm not a medical professional. However, with it being referred to as birthmark, and knowing that I had one that faded away only last year with my second pregnancy at the age of thirty one, I do know that some fade randomly. I'm just not sure of the why and how and what. I'll let you know what I find.

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2017, 12:47:57 AM »
Hah! Oniya, I just saw this in the page you linked.



Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2017, 01:19:53 AM »
Although there was a voice toy from official creator of Star Wars that had Dark Vaders voice in it saying the Join the darkside/rule together phrase and then after it. Luke, I am your father. It was in one of the videos I believe I posted involving  MEs, if not, I guess I can look for individual video on youtube, shouldn't be too hard locating.

Because we are from different realities. You have a harder time believing that factor. Here is how I outline it.

The people that see everything different from me and many others. The people that remember events differently than what I claim. You are from THIS reality. It wouldn't make any other sense if you can't relate or how maddening this may sound. I on the contrary am from the other reality. Reality where those quotes exists, where geographic world is different, where anatomy is different, where movies and phrases are different. In hindsight we would probably be having a similar convo if you were alternatively transported into my reality and went on about things like how you thought Mandela was still alive or what was up with the Lindbergh baby case, since the culprit was caught in your reality as was the baby found dead. Again, as I specified, the baby in my reality was never found nor was the person responsible ever discovered, it was the biggest case that continued to went unsolved in history in my world. The same I can say about Mongolia, it was never where it is now nor was it ever that big, but hey, I am from the alternative universe and having hard time defining it as it is. Same goes with Japan being misplaced and NZ being where it is. Though we will just keep running in circles there.  I am not that bored nor mad to make things up. I mean, hey I know my mind is pretty creative, but it isn't that creative to share similar creativity with other ME theorists.

I never heard of Jackalope, but I also never watched American's Funniest People so I can't reference that there. Originally when you typed it I had to look it up, which something new to me, but apparently a hoax. However, I always remember five planteers in Captain Planet. Fire, Wind, Water, Earth, and Heart.

I seen plenty of ME videos, some claiming MEs that aren't MEs for me. Some examples being US had 52 states(it always been 50 in my reality.) The traffic light difference reference which is the same in this reality as it was mine(RYG,  of course people insist of it being flipped.) Super Mario Bros, being called Super Mario Brothers(which I am on fence about.) The 'Beam me up Scotty' reference. I never watched Star Trek, so I dunno on that one, I have seen spin offs that used that quote, though the actual show I do not know. These things on my end can account for one of three things. 1) They are wrong; irony you can call it from my standpoint. 2) I simply don't remember it if it is true. Hey could happen. Or 3) They are right and there is just another reality beyond mine where such never reflected in my reality or this one.

Though on the third one I really don't want to dwell too much on. It is already mind blowing finding yourself in two realities, adding multiples in it is too much for my head to take.

If you do find anything on vanishing birthmarks, let me know. I been googling for awhile with little luck. I just find it odd something disappears after being there for many years.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 01:22:23 AM by Drake Valentine »

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2017, 03:16:10 AM »
I'm afraid that convincing me that truth is subjective is going to be a very hard sell....

First off, the word 'Truth' refers to what a person believes is the case. Not necessarily what IS the case. And even then, from what I'm reading about quantum physics, it would seem that reality itself is a subjective experience built by the mind of the individual observer, not any definite state that the universe is in at any given time. (It's in all possible states at all times) The world as we know it is basically just the common consensus of of those individual subjective realities coalescing into a shared experience.

In fact, from how I've read it described and heard it described in documentaries and stuff, the entire universe and all matter in it (not just light) exists in a wave form of possibility until directly observed. Only then does the wave form collapse into one definite possibility and behave as a solid particle while all other possibilities remain just as real, but only in alternate universes.

You, the observer, define the universe that 'is' simply by observing it.

As far as modern science is able to tell, the nature of the universe is nothing like we thought it was twenty years ago, and certainly not what is taught in school. Every conceivable reality, every combination of possibilities, every moment already exists spread across an infinite number of parallel and intersecting universes. It even suggests that the conscious mind flits between these universes effortlessly and constantly. You are doing it right now as you read this post.

We call it the passage of time.

Every perceivable moment is a different universe/reality than the one that preceded it and the one that follows in the same way that it is different from the other possible realities that could have potentially existed in that exact moment. From one second to the next your mental processes change, the observable molecules making up the universe move, and while for the most part everything seems to be the same, nothing is in the exact same configuration it just was, and the configuration it is in at that moment will continue to remain even as you leave it to pass into the next.

That behavior of consciousness to move between different possible realities is what is being described by the Mandela Effect. Only instead of moving to the next logical moment in our chain of perceived events, we somehow missed our original destination and wound up in a parallel set of possible realities that we weren't necessarily moving toward...or through...however you want to picture it.

Like a cosmic 404 page not found error and getting redirected to the nearest available reality seamlessly so as to avoid desturbing that subjective experience. You wouldn't even notice it happen since such movement through possible realities is such a natural part of conscious existence. Most things are the same, but not everything. And if we are consciously aware of it being different, then even little things can be jarring....imagine logging on to E one day and the standard font for all posts is comic sans. It wouldn't stop E from being the place it is, but would make you stop and go 'something is wrong here' and possibly even crave for it to be the way you remember it instead. That's how it is for people experiencing the ME. Little things that trigger that uncanny 'not quite right' feeling.

And because all possibilities exist at once, there is nothing stopping your conscious mind from navigating the infinite web of time and possibility to arrive at this reality naturally while my own was exploring an entirely different branch of possibility before arriving here in this one for whatever reason. You still exist in both, just as I already existed in this one, but we can only consciously perceive one reality at a time.

The reality you perceive only exists the way it does because you perceive it to. Someone else can perceive the same set of circumstances or events in an entirely different way, and their version would be just as valid and 'true' as yours, even if completely opposed. You can't get much more subjective than that.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 05:06:10 AM by mannik »

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2017, 09:16:26 AM »
Well, I do agree that what you've said sounds incredibly subjective, however, I remain unconvinced that it is accurate. I am, on the other hand, very interested to find out what your source material is for those extraordinary claims.

I am aware of the multiverse hypothesis, but this has not even remotely been proven to be the case. Mere assertion does not make it a fact. I am also aware of the concept that there are some forms of matter, light I believe, that exist as particles until observed. That, however, does not translate to all forms of matter as far as I know. My own research into the subject has never revealed an inclusion of any other form of matter and I would be immensely interested to see where it is cited that anything else reacts the same way?

As for the assertions on truth and reality, there is just as little room for debate.

Truth
truth
[trooth]

noun
1.
the true or actual state of a matter:
He tried to find out the truth.
2.
conformity with fact or reality; verity:
the truth of a statement.

Reality

reality
[ree-al-i-tee]

noun
1.
the state or quality of being real.
2.
resemblance to what is real.
3.
a real thing or fact.
4.
real things, facts, or events taken as a whole; state of affairs:
the reality of the business world; vacationing to escape reality.
5.
Philosophy.

    something that exists independently of ideas concerning it.
    something that exists independently of all other things and from which all other things derive.

6.
something that is real.
7.
something that constitutes a real or actual thing, as distinguished from something that is merely apparent.

These are not subjective words. In fact, they're specifically used to differentiate the objective from the subjective - that is their primary use. By their very nature, they cannot be subjective. It is impossible. Truth, Reality, Fact, etc. I understand using the shorthand of Reality when referring to multiple dimensions as per the multiverse hypothesis, but I reject using it myself and for the sake of clarity I would put forward the request to use "dimension" or "universe", since those reflect the nature of the discussion more accurately, but all I can do at that point is make the request.

All of that aside, nowhere I can find has anything resembling scientific, peer-reviewed study confirmed a single additional dimension, far less a multitude or the ability of anyone or anything to travel between them. I would very much be interested in seeing what supporting evidence you have for the subject. Unfortunately, the burden of proof for a claim such as that lies with the one making the initial claim.

Therefore.

First off, the word 'Truth' refers to what a person believes is the case.

Incorrect, as outlined above.

In fact, from how I've read it described and heard it described in documentaries and stuff, the entire universe and all matter in it (not just light) exists in a wave form of possibility until directly observed.

Forgive the turn of phrase, but... Citation, or it didn't happen.

As far as modern science is able to tell, the nature of the universe is nothing like we thought it was twenty years ago, and certainly not what is taught in school.

Same as above, I will need citation to show that "modern science" behaves in any particular way that is different from twenty years past. Keep in mind that there is a difference between hypothesis and theory and that only one of these things can be taken as definitive.

Unfortunately, the rest of your claims are based off of these concepts to begin with, so I'm afraid that my initial statement of a subjective truth being a hard sell does, by all evidence, remain true. I simply do not accept assertions as facts, I'm afraid.






As to Drake, I think my point to you got a little lost in the refuting of individual claims. My point wasn't the Jackalope, the Planeteers, or anything else specifically unto itself that was mentioned in your post. Instead, my point was that all alleged examples of the Mandela Effect can be explained by simpler, less outlandish means. There is an explanation for all of it that doesn't require that some people are special interdimensional travelers possessed of any particular enlightenment above the rest of us and incapable of being incorrect. To me, the Mandela Effect seems a fantastical claim that belongs in terrible sci-fi with more potential than achieved, instead of anything based in logical, provable fact. As far as I have seen (and I have spent most of the last year or so interested in the concept, I have not just dismissed it out of hand, I have spent countless hours poring over the material I have found but the fact that it largely seems to be Reddit and YouTube that house the "evidence", it's not overwhelmingly encouraging) there is little to no evidence that cannot be explained via natural means.

Occam's Razor tells us that if there is already a natural explanation, literally creating multiple dimensions is unnecessary and unlikely to provide the answers we need. Unless it is peer-reviewed, it is merely a fascinating fiction.

I will not say the Mandela Effect definitively does not exist. However, I will not say that an omnipotent deity does not exist, either. This does not mean that I believe in these things. They are (however unlikely) a possibility.



And please, for the love of Tyson, can we all remember that just because someone puts something in a YouTube video, does not make it true? YouTube videos are a terrible source of definitive evidence that is so easily manipulated. A YouTube video does not equate to evidence. It just doesn't.

Offline Cookie

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2017, 11:47:18 AM »
Memory absolutely can and does make this sort of thing up all the time.  I minored in psychology and memory is constantly being rewritten -- it isn't at all the simple recording device people tend to think of it as.  Every time a memory is recalled, it's altered.  This can and has been proven. 

Yeah the research into the fallibility and manipulation of memory is fascinating, especially from Elizabeth Loftus. They can talk people into false memories, in these studies, like completely  false original memories, not even changing existing ones.  I'm a psych grad too, there's just tons of great research into this. I did post grad training as a therapist and we were actually trained to avoid unwittingly inducing false memories, because it's been such a problem.

You're right, there's good evidence  that every time a memory is recalled it's altered, which is useful in psychotherapy actually, it's how we can help people with things like PSTD.

It's a problem with eyewitness testimony too, which is worrying. I was in a car accident and I remembered completely the accident victim hitting my side of the car, like a clear picture in my mind. Yet when I was interviewed by the police it turned out my recollection contradicted the direct physical evidence.

Surprised this topic isn't more widely known or discussed really.

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2017, 02:40:46 PM »
I make those claims based on a number of theories and interpretations I've heard of from several different sources, some of which I will have to search for again. Since my brother showed me some of those videos on his phone, I don't have a direct link to them at this moment, but once I find them I will post them. (having trouble finding one with a particularly nice quote from Neil Degrasse Tyson in which he describes the universe behind him as 'a murky soup of possibility until he turns around to observe where things actually are')

Anyway, the concept of the observer collapsing the wave function I mentioned was described in the 'Copenhagen interpretation' (which is widely accepted and extensively peer reviewed) of the double slit experiment as an attempt to describe the weird behavior of particles that experiment produces. Just look up the double slit experiment, it's pretty cool and there's lots of stuff about it that is very easy to find.

The experiment itself is quite simple. You have a lazer firing photons, or an electron cannon, or even something that launches larger particles aimed at a barrier that has two slits cut in it, and behind that barrier is a screen that will record the points of impact of the photons, electrons, or whatever else you fire at it.

There are two distinctly different patterns that can potentially emerge from this experiment. One, is an interference pattern of multiple bands created by waves passing through both slits at the same time, and the other is simply two narrow bands that lie behind the slits that can only be made if the particles pass through only one slit or the other before striking the screen.

When fired one at a time, the particles only hit one spot on the screen each time, but as more and more are fired, the collection of spots becomes an interference pattern expected of wave form behavior. However, if you are to set up a secondary observation or measurement at the slits itself, if you watch which one the particle passes through specifically, then the pattern on the screen becomes the double band instead because the wave of possibility no longer includes the potential of passing through the other slit. This behavior is the same regardless of what is fired through the slits. Photons produce a double band when observed passing through one slit or the other, just as larger solid particles produce the interference pattern when they are not directly observed passing through the slits at all.

All matter behaves as both wave and particle depending on when and how it is observed.

The many worlds interpretation also correlates to that experiment, only it states that the wave form doesn't collapse in the normal sense. That every possibility remains and plays out in another universe, the only difference being that this is the universe you are actively observing. Each time you fire a single particle at the slits, the whole interference pattern is created, just spread across multiple universes, where in each only a single dot appears on the screen in different positions. Each time you fire, new universes are created to account for those possibilities, but you ultimately get to observe only one.

I don't believe the two interpretations are mutually exclusive. One explains the observed universe, and how conscious awareness of a given state can affect the over all system and how future events unfold. While the other accounts for the other possibilities very neatly and efficiently mathematically.

When fired, the particle has every possible interaction ahead of it. But if you watch it go through the barrier, simply knowing the particle went through the left slit limits the possible interactions that particle can have with the screen from that point forward through time up until it collides with the screen, at which point it is observed again as one of many possible hit locations directly behind the slit it was known to pass through.

Each possibility is just as definite and real each time the device is fired. But limited by your subjective experience of where the particle is at a particular point in time.

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #73 on: August 08, 2017, 02:57:31 PM »
The problem is that you are applying quantum mechanics at distinctly non-quantum scales.

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #74 on: August 08, 2017, 03:15:22 PM »
There are also a lot of weird creatures now that I don't remember existing. Now, I do know people make random animal discoveries over time, but some of them just seem really out of the world.

http://www.boredpanda.com/strange-animals/
http://www.boredpanda.com/unusual-animals/

Star face molerats, panda ants, penis snakes? Vampire like deer? Come on, really? Along with other weird things.

Also to further tribute to this, I remember clearly the tazmanian(sp) devil being extinct in my reality. That was why the Loony Toons based a character off of him, but now I see them. I also remember buffalo being hunted to extinction, but apparently they are out in this world.

I remember the American Bald Eagle being endangered, but now it is Least Concern. (That is a real surprising population climb)
I remember pandas being endangered but now they fell down one with population rise? (Of course, that could be a shift in itself, maybe they repopulated enough, but in my reality I recall their population thinning instead of growing.)

And I still want to know where the Great Wall of India poof out of this world from. 

https://unsolvedmysteriesindia.blogspot.com/2015/01/great-wall-of-india-kumbhalgarh-fort.html

I see a lot of 'recent' discovers of it. You would of imagine that it would of been found a lot sooner with our age of technology, but backtracking I think the oldest article on it I found was 2014? 2015? I dunno, I am seeing all sorts of strange dates posted, most of them leaning to 2017 involving it, some saying it was found six months ago in 2017. Others that left many people baffle by its existence, which has left it known as a 'mystery.'

Ain't no mystery cause we merged in parallel realities.

Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #75 on: August 08, 2017, 03:37:56 PM »
Well, to start at the top:

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141124-new-species-found-under-our-noses

Quote
While around 1.2 million species of living organisms have been identified and described, there are probably far more waiting to be found. One recent study estimated there are another 6.8 million animals, 567,000 fungi and 90,000 plants awaiting discovery. New species are being found at a rate of 15,000 to 20,000 per year.

With that many species involved, many of them are bound to be very strange.

It strikes me as odd that a cartoon series would deliberately create a character as a memorial to an extinct species.  That doesn't seem like something you'd do in a show meant for children.  If it's any consolation to you, however, Tasmanian devils are currently dying out.

Bald eagles had an impressive recovery after 30 years on the endangered list, but I wouldn't call that unusually fast.

Same with pandas.  Their habitat has been decreasing, which may be what you're thinking of, but their numbers are slowly climbing.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'recent discoveries' of the Great Wall of India and your link didn't really help.  People living in the area have known it was there since it was built, I'm sure.  Machu Picchu, for instance, was 'discovered' in 1911, except the locals already knew all about it.  The biggest single issue in the Great Wall mystery is probably the simple fact that those of us in the western world frequently don't know a lot about the other half of the world.  That's a gap in our educational system, nothing more.

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #76 on: August 08, 2017, 03:39:10 PM »
The problem is that you are applying quantum mechanics at distinctly non-quantum scales.

All matter, not just things on a quantum scale have this wave/particle duality. This video describes the mechanics of the experiment itself much better than I can with text, and even mentions the same results being made by 'large, complex molecules of about sixty carbon atoms' (a small piece of physical matter that is larger than the quantum scale)


I also did manage to find one of the videos pertaining to some of this stuff. It's quite long and encompasses a lot of different subjects, but is quite interesting. But the focus of it is how recent scientific advancements are bringing about new ways of thinking about the human mind, consciousness and physical existence in a quantum world.

Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #77 on: August 08, 2017, 03:55:26 PM »
All matter, not just things on a quantum scale have this wave/particle duality. This video describes the mechanics of the experiment itself much better than I can with text, and even mentions the same results being made by 'large, complex molecules of about sixty carbon atoms' (a small piece of physical matter that is larger than the quantum scale)

But 60 carbon atoms are still only about 1 nanometer in diameter.  That's one billionth of a meter.  I'm no quantum physicist, but it seems... unwise to extrapolate too heavily from the behavior of something that small.

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #78 on: August 08, 2017, 04:24:08 PM »
I think part of the reason that people are loath to buy into the Mandela Effect and why they might even be keen to ridicule it is that there is a plethora of condescending assertion of their misinterpretation of advanced scientific principles. Frankly, if the world's leading physicists are hesitant to even label their findings to be a breakthrough, I find it very unlikely that random people on the internet are unraveling some sort of deeper cosmic truth that the misremembered is actually a giant glaring sign pointing towards alternate universes.

As I've said before, YouTube videos are not an authority, regardless of by whom they are published, and certainly I'm not going to accept "bored panda" as an authority on anything. That would be ridiculous. The people who have frequent "photoshop contests" are not my go-to for higher learning, sorry.

So, basically what you're telling us, Drake, is that because you didn't know something, it clearly never existed before, therefore multiverse? Boy, am I ever glad my health care doesn't work that way. Or... you know, anything else for that matter.

Mannik, you're making quite a stretch to apply these principles to multiple universes. It's a huge leap that doesn't qualify. It simply doesn't. Correlation does not equal causality, and furthermore correlation to something that we can't figure out if it exists or not (I'm taking Neil's direct words on this circa 2017 via StarTalk episodes on the nature of the universe) does not mean that one thing follows the other. That's like saying "Three human people are blonde, therefore only blonde people are human." The sample size of what you're talking about isn't even admissible on a playground, far less as an academic certainty.

Now, I'll grant that I have heard people talking about the quantum qualities to which you refer, and they are changing the way we think about things, but normally they're referring to dark matter, gravity wells (black holes) and universal cold spots, with only the merest hint at a multiversal theory which if I'm not mistaken, was put forward at a University in Sweden as a hypothesis. It has not been remotely confirmed yet so far as I'm aware that their research has even been duplicated, largely because it comes from a very, VERY limited pocket of evidence that has not yet occurred a second time.

Just because things are "Changing the way we think about XYZ" doesn't mean that change is making it what you want to hear, or is backing up crazy theories that are still better explained by memory lapses, education gaps and misinformation.

Also, the explanation of the double-slit experiment had a bit of controversy because of the machinery they were using at the time, with the consideration that perhaps it was interfering with the experiment in question. Until that is resolved, I cannot in good conscience even accept the findings, after which it will still be a long, hard climb to prove it can switch over to being able to accomplish the multiversal theory you're talking about. After all, light can pass through a paper cone without destroying it, but a pencil can't. There's a long way to go before anyone can definitively prove the multiversal theory, and the blind insistence that it is true based on someone misremembering a movie quote is simply, to me, ludicrous.

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #79 on: August 08, 2017, 04:55:27 PM »
If no youtube video is ever going to be an acceptable citation, then pretty much all video footage or evidence of anything needs to get thrown out the window because a VAST majority of it is hosted on youtube. Every major scientific institution, university of higher learning, corporate entity, even governments all use youtube to host and distribute their video content.

So if interviews with experts, documentaries about science, and other such things aren't valid simply because they come from a youtube channel...well, good luck finding usable proof of anything in this day in age.


Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #80 on: August 08, 2017, 05:04:10 PM »
Ah. Well, we can't all have access to scientific journals and studies and reports, I suppose. Not like we have magic boxes capable of storing and/or transmitting information from a global scoentific community.

That'd be cray-cray.

Let's just take the word of the same medium flat earthers use, shall we?

Offline Blythe

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #81 on: August 08, 2017, 05:09:59 PM »
Youtube is a potentially acceptable medium for a source, though it's incumbent on the person sharing to do their homework to ensure that those producing the information are reliable as well as the information itself.

Though videos are less accessible, in my opinion, than text-based sources, since text-based sources tend to have far clearer citations and are easier to fact-check.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 05:16:04 PM by Blythe »

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #82 on: August 08, 2017, 05:46:38 PM »
But 60 carbon atoms are still only about 1 nanometer in diameter.  That's one billionth of a meter.  I'm no quantum physicist, but it seems... unwise to extrapolate too heavily from the behavior of something that small.

I've listened to numerous lectures by Leonard Susskind, one of the most established researchers in quantum physics.  (This is what we call a primary source.)  While the principles of quantum mechanics apply to all matter, the effects are dominant at dimensions around the order of Planck's Constant.  Planck's Constant is the smallest measure of action (energy integrated over time), and is roughly equivalent to 6.626069934 x 10^-34 joule-seconds.  By the time you reach something the size of a cat, for example, the quantum effect is negligible.

Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #83 on: August 08, 2017, 06:49:08 PM »
I've listened to numerous lectures by Leonard Susskind, one of the most established researchers in quantum physics.  (This is what we call a primary source.)  While the principles of quantum mechanics apply to all matter, the effects are dominant at dimensions around the order of Planck's Constant.  Planck's Constant is the smallest measure of action (energy integrated over time), and is roughly equivalent to 6.626069934 x 10^-34 joule-seconds.  By the time you reach something the size of a cat, for example, the quantum effect is negligible.

I do make jokes that my cat is a quantum kitty -- because I could swear he can be in two places at once! -- but yes, even as non-scientific as I am I know better than to think anything like that could really happen.   ::)

Yeah the research into the fallibility and manipulation of memory is fascinating, especially from Elizabeth Loftus. They can talk people into false memories, in these studies, like completely  false original memories, not even changing existing ones.  I'm a psych grad too, there's just tons of great research into this. I did post grad training as a therapist and we were actually trained to avoid unwittingly inducing false memories, because it's been such a problem.

You're right, there's good evidence  that every time a memory is recalled it's altered, which is useful in psychotherapy actually, it's how we can help people with things like PSTD.

It's a problem with eyewitness testimony too, which is worrying. I was in a car accident and I remembered completely the accident victim hitting my side of the car, like a clear picture in my mind. Yet when I was interviewed by the police it turned out my recollection contradicted the direct physical evidence.

Surprised this topic isn't more widely known or discussed really.


Sorry, I meant to reply to this before... I had linked to one of Loftus' talks earlier (here) because I was very impressed by it.  We did experiments in one of my college classes with recall and the dangers of relying too heavily on the recollections of witnesses, and the results were striking.  And yet juries love eyewitness testimony because they find it so convincing and relatable, unlike scientific evidence.

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #84 on: August 08, 2017, 10:56:46 PM »
Okay, so let me shift the conversation just a little, gentlemen, and ask you something.

Let's say a year, five years, a decade from now there is announcement that scientists - whether physicists, psychologists or what have you - officially deny the Mandela Effect as nothing but a mental misfire of some kind, what then? Would you be willing to admit to it if they blatantly say "we know what caused it, and it was this"? Or do you think that's only possible IF there is some sort of coverup involved?

This is the problem I have with many conspiracy theorists, who share a great deal of traits with those who proclaim the Mandela Effect. They are so set in their assertions that nothing, not even scientific proof, will rattle them because then they proclaim that these people are trying to hide something. Eventually it comes down to government conspiracy or the illuminati or aliens or something. And hey, I get it: Illuminati, aliens and Men in Black are all really interesting and exciting and wouldn't it be great if.... But what about the reality of the lives we lead every day?

Is there room in your thought process for information to change? Or are you so given to your belief that you cannot be convinced otherwise?

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #85 on: August 09, 2017, 12:24:10 AM »
Well, considering the residue of old earth I keep finding, makes it pretty compelling to believe otherwise. 

Our(Old Earthers) galaxy has moved. We were never, ever, ever on the Orion Spur. We had always been on the far end of the Sagittarius Arm, closer to being outside of the Milky Way, never had we been in the center of the milky way.



Start at 37.48  he goes on telling where we are in depth. So why would he say Sagittarius instead of Orion?

And

“Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-two million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.” - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Why would it mention western spiral arm?

Has it always been that way for ya'll? Oh wait, alternate reality, it probably has.

Even the Capricorn zodiac looks bizarre. It was never a freaking goat looking merman monstrosity. It was a goat. It was not an earth/water element, it was earth. I also see strange depictions of Aquarius, a lot of the art shows a man with a bucket of water. Aquarius had always been either mostly represented by females with buckets or by mermaids with buckets. In fact, I don't remember any human males in the representation of the signs other than the centaur one, all the humans were always women, including the twins. Also constellations look different, but hey, I am from an alternate earth that should exist in the boonies on the Sagittarius arm.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 12:25:50 AM by Drake Valentine »

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #86 on: August 09, 2017, 12:37:56 AM »
*sigh* The condescension is starting to get to be a little much for me.

Firstly, Douglas Adams wrote about aliens with heads grafted on, a man in a bathrobe traveling around the universe and in multiple points in time and how the whole earth was orchestrated by mice, much to the chagrin of the fly/bowl of petunias/etc. I'm not certain anything he has to choose from can be considered anything but entertainment, particularly in the ways he describes... literally everything with a degree of absurdity.

Secondly, people make slips all the time. I don't know much about the locale of our particular locale within the Galaxy I have to admit. But that still doesn't come without viable explanations, particularly in terms of the pure number of times he goes back and forth not only in this interview (which was several years ago, by the way, two according to my archives) but also based on the fact that information changes. Once again, you find yourself up against the concept that we, as a race, learn things. You talked about bones and cartilage in the eye - people learn things. You talked about changing anatomy, endangered species and the "discovery" by the western world of things that had clearly been there for a load long time. Trouble is, you seem to refuse to allow the fact that as a species, humans grow and learn and expand their knowledge. DeGrasse-Tyson himself is quoted as saying "The most exciting phrase in the scientific world isn't "Eureka", it's "I don't know." Science literally thrives on the concept that we don't know everything that there is.

I can't speak to Zodiac signs because it wasn't something I ever really looked deeply into, even in my weird teenage phase. Saying that I do or don't recognize it now would be pointless, since I couldn't have told you about it then. But, unless you were avidly studying it, I doubt you could either. For the same reason that even as I look up the information now, there are several different takes, based on the flavours of several different cultures. I'm a little concerned, of course, since the twins was based off the concept of Castor/Pollux or Romulus/Remus (however you want to refer to them) and I wonder what, in your alleged alternate universe, they were based off of if they were females?

I won't ask if it's at all possible that you were simply showed an image that was particularly stylized to a single individual's tastes and that ended up flavouring how you considered them from now on, because out of the eight times I've asked that question, you've simply asserted alternate timelines or else changed the subject and outright avoided my most recent question as you just have now.

However, I do state that your arguments are actually only doing more to turn me AWAY from the possibility of any truth in the Madela Effect, rather than actually taking it remotely seriously.

Edit: Also, I find the concept that you insist that you find residue of old earth hypocritical, since you also said you couldn't find solid evidence since you're not in an alternate timeline. So... which is it? Both is impossible, Schrödinger.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 12:39:39 AM by Fury Aphrodisia »

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #87 on: August 09, 2017, 01:10:53 AM »
You're entitled to believe what you want, I don't care either way to be honest. The info I am throwing out is only to see if there are other like minded Old Earthers that remember similar things either in astronomy, geographically, anatomy, media, etc.

It is doubtful that the scientists can disapprove the ME. Considering it is a phenomenon with many people sharing similar memories that are different than this current reality's. Even if they did, it would likely be some form of cover up, which many of you have been already doing with attempting to claim it faulty memories or memory alteration or suggestive memories. Which for me, none is true, this isn't some mass brainwashing that many MEs are doing. I can clearly discern what sounds right and what doesn't in things I remember. As there had been a few ME videos where I didn't remember this or that and just shrugged those ones off. Though the ones I did remember that matched the ME of the video, then yes, that was how they went before the ME altered everything.

I only stated residue can only go so far, especially when others just ignore it; which in your case you continue to do. The twins had two depictions, women or that of two children.   Libra was always either shown as a scale or a woman holding scales. The entire art frame for them change. Again I never recalled any human males, other than the centaur from most of the zodiac circle art. Though the older art where it originated is completely different in certain representations; the bizarre goat-fish being one.

I only mentioned the residue still lingering is mostly on the web. Most of the otherwise internet has changed, leaving videos and what few other things that haven't been touched by the ME in low supply. Of course in that same standstill, you insist on other things as mentioned miss quotes or miss wordings, etc, etc.

Also none of those animals were photoshop from that panda link, you can google them and find a wiki page on them. Though maybe we shouldn't trust wiki for a source either or other images of such creatures; which some look more alienated or completely fictional to be true, but nope, they are there in this reality. But hey, maybe I just never heard of them.

I am positive on other things though that are different in this reality.  100% on the change of geography, anatomy, astronomy, media, and other logo and whatnot alterations.   

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #88 on: August 09, 2017, 01:15:49 AM »
Why would it mention western spiral arm?

How can you even define 'west' in the context of space? 

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #89 on: August 09, 2017, 01:48:23 AM »
So, basically what you're saying is that no matter who or what refutes the hypothesis, you're not going to believe them one way or another? Either they're wrong or it's a cover-up?

To be clear, I have not ignored anything. I have met every. Single. Point that you have brought up and the way in which you have treated me (insinuating I'm ignoring you, the condescension, the low-key insults) combined with the fact that you straight-up, completely refuse to entertain even for a moment that you might even possibly be wrong means that there's really no further discussion we could possibly have with you that won't continue to be as circular as the one we've already been having.

For now, I will simply say, "Okay." Neither one of us has budged the other an inch, you to some extreme end and myself somewhere in the middle. I think it is time to turn the floor over to people who might be able to have a constructive conversation. I'm certain in what you've already said, people will be able to find what they see as most telling and work within those parameters. Thank you for the conversation.

Offline Blythe

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #90 on: August 09, 2017, 02:25:16 AM »
I can go on and on, but hey, finding concrete evidence is hard when there has been obvious parallel shifts with only so much residue lingering about and what residue that is found is just passed off as implausible proof to something else.

Even if they did, it would likely be some form of cover up, which many of you have been already doing with attempting to claim it faulty memories or memory alteration or suggestive memories. Which for me, none is true, this isn't some mass brainwashing that many MEs are doing.

Lack of concrete evidence coupled with accusations of cover ups is not especially persuasive for what you are trying to assert.

While you are entitled to believe as you like & I respect your right to, this sort of debate tactic gets used a lot by conspiracy theorists and isn't conducive to a healthy & rational discussion or dialogue.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 02:30:12 AM by Blythe »

Offline MasonBradford

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #91 on: August 09, 2017, 07:41:10 AM »
The Mandela effect is simply a the phenomenon of people being too prideful to admit they have misremembered things. Nothing more, nothing less.

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #92 on: August 09, 2017, 11:31:33 AM »
Its actually Quantum mechanics, but you can believe what you want.



Starts around 2:58 where he starts discussing quantum computers.



More info on multi-verse and other realities.

Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #93 on: August 09, 2017, 11:36:42 AM »
No, it isn't quantum mechanics because, as Oniya very rightly pointed out, things that happen on the quantum level cannot be applied to non-quantum scales.

Also, if you could at least address Blythe's last post that would be very helpful, because as it is the entire discussion is going in circles.  You claim all your evidence is being ignored (when several of us have already tried to address all the points you raise one by one), and yet ignore some very basic questions we've asked and important points that others have raised.

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #94 on: August 09, 2017, 11:37:49 AM »
Seconded. Thirded?

+1

Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #95 on: August 09, 2017, 08:37:31 PM »
Explain the Houston movie quote flipflopping then?

https://moviepilot.com/posts/3998869 - Top of list
http://listverse.com/2007/10/18/top-15-film-misquotes/ - Number 14 on list
https://thoughtcatalog.com/nico-lang/2013/08/35-classic-movies-you-might-not-realize-youve-been-misquoting/ - Number 2 on the list
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/star-wars-jaws-22-films-are-famously-misquoted-1002147/item/22-misquoted-films-casablanca-1002152 - Second on the list. Not only that, but apparently the video to reference it doesn't exist? Hmm.. Odd. Maybe it got sucked into another reality.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/briangalindo/20-famous-movie-lines-that-you-have-been-saying-wrong?utm_term=.hndWk6Pl8#.vkQBLn16p - Top of list, can't miss it.



Starts at 1:20

Might as well burn it in now before it flip flops again as I hear people saying it changed months ago, for others a week ago and now is back as it was again. So various flip-flops.

And I don't want to hear 'well in the actual mission it is We Had a problem, so that is probably where they are getting it from.' No, it states clearly 'in the movie' in each link of it being misquoted. Though the actual quote of the movie has always been 'Houston we have a problem.'
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 08:43:12 PM by Drake Valentine »

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #96 on: August 09, 2017, 08:49:00 PM »
Still not answering the question.

Edit:

« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 08:58:19 PM by Fury Aphrodisia »

Online Mithlomwen

  • E's resident kilt inspector ~ A Gunman's Goddess ~ Elven Princess ~ Atropos
  • Goddess
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Location: ~ The Gunner's Dream ~
  • Gender: Female
  • ~ I'm so happy to be stuck with you.... ~
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #97 on: August 10, 2017, 09:20:49 AM »
Drake,

If you are going to debate in his forum, I encourage you to please read this.

If you are not going to listen to, and summarily dismiss every piece of evidence other members provide, then you are not debating in good faith. 

If you continue in this vein, this thread will be locked. 


Online Drake Valentine

  • Architect of Worlds
  • Knight
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Location: In the Deepest Depthes of Your Twisted Mind
  • Gender: Male
  • Making Your Darkest of Fantasies a Reality
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #98 on: August 10, 2017, 10:56:58 AM »
To begin Blythe’s last post was a statement, not inquiry.

As for location in space, the former reference of the quote as the western arm was a tribute to sagittarius arm in the sense of the constellation, at least in my universe being located within the west(the zodiac constellation.) But we have universes bleeding or merged into one another, so who knows if or how the hitchhikers guide existed before.

The main problem to this, is you all delude to the possibility of memory rewrite, memory lost, forgotten memories when you do not understand in the slightest of the Mandela Phenomenon. I have approached this in a both universal view with the laws of this universe having a different truth or a current truth vs the laws of my universe. Of course everything would seem different to me, some things can be questionable memory, like certain phrases; however you can’t dispute geography, astronomy, and even anatomy. I don’t care how crazy it may seem or sound, we surely do not forget those things. I have a know how on how the world map looks, I may not remember every location on the globe as far as countries go, but I do know their placement. I definitely do not recall us ever being in the Orion belt of the universe, we were never that deep in the milkyway. I certainly do not recall the heart placement being in the center, it was always on the left as were the makeout of the ribs different. We never had floating ribs at the bottom. The intestines are different as well by how they are wrapped, the heart looks bigger. This is all wrong from my universe.

You also cannot dismiss it as memory rewrite or memory lost; because guess what? Lots of other people out there are raising the same questions. The ME is a crazy thing. Dead people coming back to life. Stephen Hawking? He is dead in my universe, but alive in this one. Betty White(Golden Girls?) She is dead in my universe, but 90 something in this one. Scour the reddit posts, which I will probably end up migrating to for better disscussion with like minded experiences since this chat is not going anywhere, other than the running in circles or the expectation of evidence and credibility(when keep in mind, what can be offered is mostly old world residue that hasn’t bled out.)

It is simpler for folks to prove things in a familiar world than those who wake up and realize they are in a much more alienated one than they remember. Elements of history re-written or for those that hail from here, not necessarily so. Mongolia bothers me, because for me it is like seeing Atlantis on the map. JFK assassination bothers me because I remember four people in the vehicle when it happened. Then there is the white sun, yea, that never existed in my universe.

Just because you can’t comprehend ME doesn’t mean it is true. You fully wouldn’t understand what it is like to find yourself in an alternate universe, when a lot of things you once knew or thought you knew is wrong(but true in your world that you hailed from.) Yes, again I know how crazy it may all sound and out of this world, out of the realm of possibility and probability. You keep demanding proof, though there is only so much an other earther can provide.

So lets narrow down the facts.

The ME is an phenomenon experience that many people are sharing, you see all sorts of videos on it on youtube, you see posts about it on reddit and other forums. Do you honestly believe that groups of people would be so bored to make things up? Beyond context of ‘its the internet, because people are bored.’ There is a possibility that yes, some can be playing around, but when I see posts that align to similar things from my universe, the bigger things that I noticed, then those are hard to dismiss in entirety. I do not agree to every ME that some list out there on youtube or reddit; although I keep an open mind to them in the least unless I know for fact those are wrong(at least from my knowledge of my universe, but there is no telling how many universes have either collided or bled into one another.)

The ME is not a cult or a conspiracy group. The ME is an alteration of coexisting memories with something entirely different than what has been known. I see all sorts of theories, but have ruled out many examples that may result to ME. Those that some suggested deluded memories or false memories. Lets be clear, it may seem false to those, of course it would seem false to those not experiencing the ME, because you are used to a world you have already been co-existing in. Some believe it is pride that those won’t admit their memories have been warped, well, that is a lot of warping to be done, especially when again there are large groups of people out there sharing similar memories in relation with the main three subjects I touched prior on mine(astronomy, geography, anatomy.) You could include biology as well if you want, after all, there is a lot of new animals I do not remember(but hey, they could be from discover, but there certainty no penis snakes, tardigrade, zorse, rainbow trees, and any of those things I listed from  boredpanda site, from my universe. If any of those creatures sound strange to you or unbelievable, feel free to look them up. Hey, maybe you never discovered them in your own universe. I also ruled out time travel, even time travel cannot cause a change like this; the only reasonable explanation is something happening to the universes within a multiverse. Yes, hard to believe, I am sure. Insane? Probably-so, but experiencing it and living it can turn anyone into a believer. 

More info on PU and ME

http://www.news.com.au/technology/science/space/scientists-believe-they-may-have-discovered-a-parallel-universe/news-story/23c89c0563b2600981b1621fe317807a



In the end, you are entitled to your beliefs. I am more or less done with this debate and will not be entertaining it any further than this. For those of you who are going through MEs, remember you are not alone. If you are worried of ridicule or whatnot, you can always chat with me on it, it is always good to know that there are others that are sharing similar experiences out there. Truthfully I want to deduce how long the ME has been going on for, having just awaken to it recently. 2004 seems a plausible end point of when it begun since the cold spot was discovered around that timeframe, but that also leaves other questions involving 9/11 pentagon death toll(my universe 0, this one around 125) and its effects on time itself. Yes, it is a mind boggling concept that leaves other questions in realm of possibility. Though if you take on the probability of reality(and for me it is very real) of the situation, it begs the question of how much of physics we may not understand along with other laws of nature and being.

And speaking of residue in relation to galaxy, I discovered this link across the web, take it for whatever grain of salt you want, but if you back track, it is from a science institue going by the webpage.

http://www.oarval.org/galintro.htm

Quote
Spiral galaxies have unmistakable characteristic features. The arms of the spiral define a plane. A large concentration of stars at the center of the galaxy makes a bulge there. Spiral galaxies are rich in the gas and dust needed to form new stars. Their blue color tells astronomers that star formation is indeed ongoing in these galaxies. Our solar system lies about two-thirds of the distance from the nucleus in the Milky Way's spiral arm, called the Sagittarius Arm. The stars of the constellation Sagittarius all lie in this spiral arm of the Milky Way.

But here we are in Orion area? Hmmm. How odd.

-DV

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #99 on: August 10, 2017, 11:19:18 AM »
Okay, once more for the people in the back.

1. Things change. We learn new things. Things Einstien said way back when are only just now being discovered to be true. We grow, science expands, we learn new things. The change in anatomical reference guides for fifty years ago versus those now, maps a hundred years ago, versus ten years ago, versus now, astronomy (since people can't literally just leave the galaxy and look back to verify...) These are all things that change and shift with our knowledge.

2. Stars move. They just do. Galaxies, nebulas, solar systems, it's all in movement. It just is. So, could be a combination of that and from point 1.

3. What we were asking is for a starting point: Are you even willing to admit you MIGHT be incorrect? Because if that is not a possibility for you, we can't debate you, because you're not playing fair and it's all pointless.

4. This is literally the fifth time you're being asked the same question and merely regurgitating old information without answering the question. How is that conducive to any meaningful conversation? When one side says "I'm unconvinced" and the other says "Well, you're wrong, because I can't be wrong." That's just fanaticism and doesn't allow for discussion.

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2017, 11:31:14 AM »
Also, point of interest, from https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_Arm


Orion Arm

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Observed structure of the Milky Way's spiral arms[1]

The Orion Arm, or Orion–Cygnus Arm, is a minor spiral arm of the Milky Way galaxy.[2] It is of interest because the Solar System (including the Earth) is inside it. The spiral arm is some 3,500 light-years (1,100 parsecs) across and approximately 10,000 light-years (3,100 parsecs) in length.[3]

The Orion Arm is named after the Orion constellation, one of the most prominent constellations. It is seen in the Northern Hemisphere during winter and in the Southern Hemisphere during summer. Some of the brightest stars and most famous celestial objects are in the Orion Arm: Betelgeuse, Rigel, the stars of Orion's Belt and the Orion nebula. They are shown on the interactive map below.

The Orion Arm is between the Carina–Sagittarius Arm (toward the Galactic centre) and the Perseus Arm (toward the outside Universe). The Perseus Arm is one of the two major arms of the Milky Way. The Solar system is on the Orion spur, between the two longer adjacent arms Perseus and Carina-Sagittarius.[4]

Inside the Orion Arm, the Solar System is close to the inner rim, in the Local Bubble. It is about halfway along the Orion Arm's length, about 8,000 parsecs (26,000 light-years) from the Galactic centre.



In this regard, we can see that the Orion arm and the Sagittarius arm are very close. What's more, http://earthsky.org/space/does-our-sun-reside-in-a-spiral-arm-of-the-milky-way-galaxy is quoted in the first paragraph with


Which spiral arm of the Milky Way contains our sun?
By Deborah Byrd in Space | May 20, 2014

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Our sun is one of billions of stars in the Milky Way galaxy? But where within this vast spiral structure do our sun and Earth reside?

We live in an island of stars called the Milky Way, and many know that our Milky Way is a spiral galaxy. In fact, it’s a barred spiral galaxy, which means that our galaxy probably has just two major spiral arms, plus a central bar that astronomers are only now beginning to understand. But where within this vast spiral structure do our sun and its planets reside? Our galaxy is about 100,000 light-years wide. We’re about 25,000 light-years from the center of the galaxy. It turns out we’re not located in one of the Milky Way’s two primary spiral arms. Instead, we’re located in a minor arm of the galaxy. Our local spiral arm is sometimes Orion Arm, or sometimes the Orion Spur. It’s between the Sagittarius and Perseus Arms of the Milky Way. The image below shows it.


If that's not enough to support the idea that between shifting, learning more and the possibility of things being confused, we have https://www.newscientist.com/article/2107456-our-home-spiral-arm-in-the-milky-way-is-less-wimpy-than-thought/  telling us....

By Rebecca Boyle

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
It’s tricky to map an entire galaxy when you live in one of its arms. But astronomers have made the clearest map yet of the Milky Way – and it turns out that the arm that hosts our solar system is even bigger than previously thought.

The idea that the Milky Way is a spiral was first proposed more than 150 years ago, but we only started identifying its limbs in the 1950s. Details about the galaxy’s exact structure are still hotly debated, such as the number of arms, their length and the size of the bar of hot gas and dust that stretches across its middle.

The star-filled arms are densely packed with gas and dust, where new stars are born. That dust can obscure stars we use to measure distances, complicating the mapping process.

.

Two of the arms, called Perseus and Scutum-Centaurus, are larger and filled with more stars, while the Sagittarius and Outer arms have fewer stars but just as much gas. The solar system has been thought to lie in a structure called the Orion Spur, or Local Arm, which is smaller than the nearby Perseus Arm.
Just as grand

Now, Ye Xu and colleagues from the Purple Mountain Observatory in Nanjing, China, say the Local Arm is just as grand as the others.

The team used the Very Long Baseline Array in New Mexico to make extremely accurate measurements of high-mass gas clouds in the arms, and used a star-measuring trigonometry trick called parallax to measure their distances.

“Radio telescopes can ‘see’ through the galactic plane to massive star forming regions that trace spiral structure, while optical wavelengths will be hidden by dust,” Xe says. “Achieving a highly accurate parallax is not easy.”

The new measurements suggest the Milky Way is not a grand design spiral with well-defined arms, but a spiral with many branches and subtle spurs.

However, Xu and colleagues say the Orion Spur is not a spur at all, but more in line with the galaxy’s other spectacular arms. The team also discovered a spur connecting the Local and Sagittarius arms.

“This lane has received little attention in the past because it does not correspond with any of the major spiral arm features of the inner galaxy,” the authors of the study write.

Future measurements with other radio telescopes will shed more light on the galaxy’s shape. The European Space Agency’s Gaia spacecraft is in the midst of a mission to make a three-dimensional map of our galaxy, too. More measurements of the high-mass gas regions will help astronomers determine what our galaxy looks like, from the inside out.


Since that debate is still raging and seems to have begun with the concept that the Orion Spur was actually an offshoot of the Sagittarius arm, it's not surprising that they might have gotten mixed up.

Wikipedia tells us about Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy,

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Original radio series
See also: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (radio series) and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Primary and Secondary Phases

The first radio series of six episodes (called "Fits" after the names of the sections of Lewis Carroll's nonsense poem "The Hunting of the Snark")[10] was broadcast in 1978 on BBC Radio 4. Despite a low-key launch of the series (the first episode was broadcast at 10:30 pm on Wednesday, 8 March 1978), it received generally good reviews and a tremendous audience reaction for radio.[11]


We'll say 1980 for a good, round number. Do you think it possible that considering back then, there were still 8-tracks and vinyl records and now we have smart phones, it's possible that in nearly forty years, an author - not unlike all of us here - might have misunderstood the relatively new information (or that yet undiscovered) and managed to publish a nonsensical fiction book that doesn't require peer review?

Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #101 on: August 10, 2017, 11:40:17 AM »
By pointing out Blythe's post, I was attempting to get you to acknowledge the fact that you are not debating in good faith.  You've ignored all the points people have made that you can't refute (in other words, nearly all of them) and moved the goalposts numerous times.  (In case you don't know that last phrase, a definition is available in the link Mith provided.)

You also cannot dismiss it as memory rewrite or memory lost; because guess what? Lots of other people out there are raising the same questions. The ME is a crazy thing. Dead people coming back to life. Stephen Hawking? He is dead in my universe, but alive in this one. Betty White(Golden Girls?) She is dead in my universe, but 90 something in this one. Scour the reddit posts, which I will probably end up migrating to for better disscussion with like minded experiences since this chat is not going anywhere, other than the running in circles or the expectation of evidence and credibility(when keep in mind, what can be offered is mostly old world residue that hasn’t bled out.)

Guess what?  When people find a group where they feel they belong, it's ridiculously easy for all the members of that group to talk each other into believing all sorts of things.  Whether you believe it or not, memory alters, and links have been given to studies verifying this.  Hearing enough stories along the same lines WILL alter your perceptions and memories to an astounding degree, especially when these stories come from people you feel connected to.  This is basic psychology.

And discussions will always go better when everyone involved does nothing but agree with everyone else, yes, though such discussions are rarely profitable.



Since I'm genuinely curious to discover how far you've considered the more scientific aspects of this -- you know, things that don't rely solely on your memory being perfect while everyone else's is just wrong -- I'll try outlining some specific questions to see if you'll address them.

1. I think we can agree that, assuming something the size of a human being is being moved from one reality to another, a vast amount of energy must be involved in that transfer.  What is the source of this energy?

2. Why is there even 'residue' in the first place?  If something so immense is happening that entire other WORLDS are being created, why doesn't that just overwhelm all this supposedly lingering evidence?

3. Several descriptions I've read elsewhere have mentioned that ME occurs at certain important focal points in history.  That part makes some sense to me.  But why are things like misquoted movies or Betty White being dead involved?  She seems like a cool lady, but I doubt she's vitally important enough to our world to count as a focal point, and Vader's exact words can't mean THAT much, with apologies to all Star Wars fans.  Also, why would things STILL be changing, as your post about Apollo 13 would seem to indicate?

4. Why is it an easier thing for you to accept that you've been thrown into the wrong universe for some inexplicable reason by some unknowable force than to just accept that you don't have a photographic memory?  Presumably there are things you will admit to having genuinely forgotten or remembered incorrectly -- why are some put under the heading of ME and others are just normal human mistakes?

Offline Regina Minx

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2017, 04:27:36 PM »
I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed incongruities like this. One theory I heard to explain this is that when they fired the Super collider at CERN, they actually destroyed the universe, and everyone's consciousness was simply absorbed into the nearest alternate timeline in which everything more or less is the same, but the universe wasn't ended....

Not sure if I'm on board with that...but considering the power of quantum computing (parallel universes on a chip basically) it wouldn't surprise me if some sort of quantum weirdness was going on.

So...people misremembering something is somehow the less likely explanation to science-fiction level alteration of space and time?

People have shitty memories. But only do people have shitty memories, they also have unwarrented confidence in the accuracy of their memories. 9/11 was a big flashpoint event. The details of that day were well-documented, and almost everyone who was alive at the time and above a certain age has some memories of what happened that day. And yet, despite this being one of the most well-documented events in recent history, peoples' memories are flawed as a longitudinal study of memories of 9/11 revealed.

Quote
Ever since 9/11 occurred, research into flashbulb memories has helped form a better understanding about memory and forgetting. So far, there have been more than twenty studies looking at how well people recall the 9/11 attacks and the kind of memory errors that can occur. These include errors of omission (forgetting important details of what happened), and errors of commission (false memories involving event details that never really happened).  Even people who are extremely confident that they are remembering important details can make critical errors.

Emphasis mine.

Online Lustful Bride

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2017, 06:21:19 PM »
So...people misremembering something is somehow the less likely explanation to science-fiction level alteration of space and time?

People have shitty memories. But only do people have shitty memories, they also have unwarrented confidence in the accuracy of their memories. 9/11 was a big flashpoint event. The details of that day were well-documented, and almost everyone who was alive at the time and above a certain age has some memories of what happened that day. And yet, despite this being one of the most well-documented events in recent history, peoples' memories are flawed as a longitudinal study of memories of 9/11 revealed.

Emphasis mine.

I feel like this might be the most accurate way to explain this all.

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2017, 07:10:46 PM »
Agreed. Sort of what most of us have been trying to explore, though. But how does one go explaining that to people who wholeheartedly believe they're dimension-hopping dead people from a particle physics experiment on another world?

Offline Seranova

  • Deliciously Dark and Deviant
  • Permabanned
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Location: On the Throne in Wonderland
  • Gender: Male
  • Bastard-Coated Bastard With Creamy Bastard Filling
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #105 on: August 11, 2017, 02:42:47 AM »
I've been semi-following this thread, and been debating putting in my thoughts, as it were, as I find the idea of the ME to be a bit far-fetched. This is putting it mildly. I felt there was nothing constructive I could add that hasn't already been stated. But there's one thing that has been brought up several times that is truly bugging me, and something I simply cannot leave well enough alone. So I must ask this one question;

If the human heart used to be on the left side of the rib cage, then where exactly was the left lung?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 02:44:34 AM by Seranova »

Offline Regina Minx

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #106 on: August 11, 2017, 06:59:37 AM »
I've been semi-following this thread, and been debating putting in my thoughts, as it were, as I find the idea of the ME to be a bit far-fetched. This is putting it mildly. I felt there was nothing constructive I could add that hasn't already been stated. But there's one thing that has been brought up several times that is truly bugging me, and something I simply cannot leave well enough alone. So I must ask this one question;

If the human heart used to be on the left side of the rib cage, then where exactly was the left lung?

Was the human heart ever on the left side of the rib cage? Citation needed.

Offline Seranova

  • Deliciously Dark and Deviant
  • Permabanned
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Location: On the Throne in Wonderland
  • Gender: Male
  • Bastard-Coated Bastard With Creamy Bastard Filling
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #107 on: August 11, 2017, 01:49:00 PM »
Human anatomy looks different to me as well. The intestines were never that jumble of a mess. The heart is apparently now in the center when it used to be on the left, and seems bigger? Eyes have bones behind the socket when before I am sure it was just cartilage. Ribs looks much different as well, freaky so.

This quote was taken from page 3 of this topic, and it was mentioned elsewhere within the thread. I don't have citation for this, as it wasn't my claim to begin with. I do know the human heart tilts slightly to the left, but that's a far cry from actually being on the left. I'm having a hard time making sense of placement, as an 8-10(?) ounce muscle takes up a fair amount of room in the rib-cage alone. If it did indeed used to reside on the left hand side in some alternate reality, then the left lung would have to be displaced in some way, and there's not a whole lot of room for both to share real estate.



Image used from britannica.com

Online AmberStarfire

  • Rogue Starlight ~ Writer of Things ~ This Is Who We Are ~ Scully to his Mulder
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Location: Lost in Paradise with a Ranger.
  • Gender: Female
  • ❤ Snuggler of the Wyld and Hairy ❤
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #108 on: August 11, 2017, 02:29:35 PM »
Interesting. I've never heard this theory before.

I remember that Morpheus quote, by the way. Are you sure it wasn't just on the trailer or something?

As for the heart, we were taught in school that it was a bit to the left. However, it's been over 20 years since I took biology.

And Googling the Mandela Effect, it came up with the example of the song 'We Are the Champions'.. I remember it ending with 'of the world' as well, which is strange. I do clearly remember that, unless it was in a different version of the song. It's a song that lots of people have sung over the years.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 03:14:06 PM by AmberStarfire »

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #109 on: August 11, 2017, 03:37:00 PM »
Well...there is apparently a problem with learning things in school. Public schools lie and intentionally teach un-truths. They intentionally taught me things they knew weren't true, only to reveal later they lied in the first place.

Most notably, every kid in my second grade history class was taught that Christopher Columbus was the first European to 'discover' the american convenient. Then in like 10th grade history they told me that the Vikings had been in America LONG before him. I don't know why they couldn't just say that in the first place.

But yeah, I remember the heart being to the left. That's why when we said the pledge we always put our right hand over our left pectoral. 'Hand over the heart' as they said...felt it beating and everything. But yeah, that alone is proof of nothing. But it is an odd ritual if the heart isn't on the left. If it's more centered then it shouldn't matter which hand you used and the instruction should have been to aim for the sternum instead of the pectoral.

Offline Regina Minx

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #110 on: August 11, 2017, 03:41:41 PM »
So your citation for the notion that the heart 'used to be' on the left side of the chest is that elementary school children say the pledge of allegiance with their hands on their left pectorals?

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #111 on: August 11, 2017, 03:56:06 PM »
Okay then.  Let's start off teaching elementary school kids that you can divide by zero (the entirety of calculus) and take the square roots of negative numbers (complex numbers/analysis).

Offline Regina Minx

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #112 on: August 11, 2017, 04:01:38 PM »
Wow...I'm actually convinced by the theory of alternate universes now. Look at this picture I found:



Proof positive that in one timeline, Germany won WW2 and the world became Nazis. Then time travellers at CERN must have changed it somehow!

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #113 on: August 11, 2017, 04:28:59 PM »
yeah, that alone is proof of nothing.

How is that a citation? I'm saying point blank it's not proof of anything. Just pointing out it's on odd ritual that could easily confuse school children...and that the information presented to school children isn't necessarily accurate anyway.

The fact you are attacking my post without even reading it suggests you aren't here for discussion, but argument. You are not open to the possibility this phenomena can be real, nor are you interested in hearing anything anyone has to say in attempts to support it.

I can admit, I have contained in my brain, a limited amount of information and further more, an imperfect understanding of that information. I fully understand that the nature of memory is inherently unreliable, and that is the EASIEST explanation.

But I believe, key word, BELIEVE, that the nature of the universe is infinite. I built that belief based on the experiences in my life and what I personally know to be true. Some is speculation, and it is entirely subjective. I've opened my mind to the concept of infinite possibly...so I do not discount or inherently dismiss something like the Mandela Effect off hand simply because it sounds unlikely.

Unlikely is still possible.

So I explore the possibility and ponder the implications it may have IF it is true, simply for the fun of doing so. The funny thing is though, it does not conflict with my personal experiences or how I've viewed the world prior to hearing of it. Therefore, I have to keep considering it a POSSIBILITY. But that's all I actually consider it. It's not fact. So very few facts actually exist when it comes to the nature of consciousness and the fabric of the universe. It is difficult to seriously consider such topics without drifting into speculation.

But I don't consider speculation to be a bad thing. Its how you refine concepts and develop understanding of things that expand outside what you already know...can be wrong, but chances are, nobody is actually right about that stuff anyway, so what difference does it make?

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #114 on: August 11, 2017, 04:30:57 PM »
Wow...I'm actually convinced by the theory of alternate universes now. Look at this picture I found:

Proof positive that in one timeline, Germany won WW2 and the world became Nazis. Then time travellers at CERN must have changed it somehow!

Or, a little further digging leads to:  http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

Online AmberStarfire

  • Rogue Starlight ~ Writer of Things ~ This Is Who We Are ~ Scully to his Mulder
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Location: Lost in Paradise with a Ranger.
  • Gender: Female
  • ❤ Snuggler of the Wyld and Hairy ❤
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #115 on: August 11, 2017, 04:55:59 PM »
Did you ever think it could be some kind of social experiment?

Change a few things and wait for people to notice. See what percentage believe what they remember vs believing the amended version, and who pays little attention at all.


Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #116 on: August 11, 2017, 05:05:58 PM »
And a quote for that article does play into what I had mentioned.

Quote
The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.", should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."

Holding a hat at your left shoulder puts your right palm over your left pectoral...where the heart apparently isn't. An odd tradition if the goal is to put your hand over your heart. That's all I'm saying.

Did you ever think it could be some kind of social experiment?

Change a few things and wait for people to notice. See what percentage believe what they remember vs believing the amended version, and who pays little attention at all.



That is also possible. But generally people tend to be lazy. To filter that much information that's on the internet and other media and alter it like that is...well, more work than it would be worth.

Though...I suppose if one were to control information on that scale it would give them pretty much direct control of people's thoughts, as they would be able to filter only the information they want them to have to them. And especially if they trust the computer more than their own memories....That might be worth the effort.

Since apparently VHS tapes in people's closets were altered, however, in order for that theory to work they would have to have teams of ninjas running around, breaking into houses and swapping out tapes or something...which, again is possible but...not likely.

Hell...honestly I think it would be easier just to create an alternate reality than it would be to pull that off...(just boot up a quantum computer)


Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #117 on: August 11, 2017, 05:18:33 PM »
If the heart is (or was ever) more than very slightly to the left of center, I can't see how CPR ever worked on anyone.

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #118 on: August 11, 2017, 05:29:27 PM »
If the heart is (or was ever) more than very slightly to the left of center, I can't see how CPR ever worked on anyone.

Dunno. Not a doctor, can't say how, only that it apparently did....unless it didn't, and that's why we all died. :P

Offline Seranova

  • Deliciously Dark and Deviant
  • Permabanned
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Location: On the Throne in Wonderland
  • Gender: Male
  • Bastard-Coated Bastard With Creamy Bastard Filling
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #119 on: August 11, 2017, 05:41:11 PM »
Movie quotes "changing" is not difficult to believe, in my opinion. We live in a society where pop culture parodies itself ad nauseum, and fraught with copyright laws and loopholes that encourage little things changed here and there to adhere to said laws. I can't tell you how many versions of the quintessential Star Wars quote, or the line from Dirty Harry I've heard from numerous sources. Each one is slightly different, and often muddles the memory of the original. To point to that as evidence seems silly to me. It's like the old "telephone" game that was played as a kid; it starts with a whispered phrase in one ear, then passed along until it sounds nothing like the original. In reality, I'm more amazed that the quotes haven't been distorted more as time goes on and they continue to be parodied and referenced.

Logos "changing" is easily explained by most often the brain automatically filling in what feels most natural, which is evident when reading misspelled words. The brain fills in and is able to read and translate.

Most everything else can be explained by gaps in memory and education, as far as I'm concerned.

Offline Cookie

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #120 on: August 11, 2017, 05:51:18 PM »


And Googling the Mandela Effect, it came up with the example of the song 'We Are the Champions'.. I remember it ending with 'of the world' as well, which is strange. I do clearly remember that, unless it was in a different version of the song. It's a song that lots of people have sung over the years.

Yeah different version, Freddy sang 'of the world' on that iconic Live Aid performance, which has been played so many times, it'd be one that almost everyone's seen.

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #121 on: August 11, 2017, 06:51:05 PM »
I just found at least four different versions of the song on You Tube just now, all of which had "of the world" in them. My youngest loves Queen, so we've been listening pretty steadily for a year. I remember once tripping across one that just faded out and we all sang the last words anyways, because we were used to hearing them.

Especially with those whose liver performances are often played by radio stations, TV, etc. it's really not a good idea to take any one performance as evidence to the exclusion of all others.

Offline Deamonbane

  • “If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!” ~ Demon Killer
  • Knight
  • Addict
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Location: Taking very enthusiastic walks through the woods.
  • Gender: Male
  • Oh, I don't get angry. I have people for that.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #122 on: August 11, 2017, 07:04:43 PM »


Looks more or less right to me. CPR works because you are pressing into the sternum which compresses the heart, doing the work of the heart's muscles for them. It doesn't do their work particularly well, which is why CPR is a temporary measure at best. Also, in order to press the heart through the sternum, you need to put a lot of pressure on the ribs which makes breaking ribs almost a foregone conclusion.

Heart is slightly in front and between the lungs, and the anatomy of it (slightly lopsided) makes it so that it is more to the left side than the right. Pressing down on the sternum thus pushes blood from the right chamber into the left and from there into the lungs and the rest of the body. That's what they taught us in First Aid, anyways.

Thinking of the music ‘Staying alive’ by the Bee Gees and performing compressions on the beat can assist to keep the correct rhythm.


Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #123 on: August 11, 2017, 07:26:45 PM »
Thinking of the music ‘Staying alive’ by the Bee Gees and performing compressions on the beat can assist to keep the correct rhythm.

Another One Bites The Dust has the same bpm - but isn't nearly as encouraging when the patient comes around.  (Paramedics have a weird sense of humor.)

Online Fury Aphrodisia

  • Story Slut, Character Queen
  • Dame
  • Enchanter
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Location: The true north - strong and free
  • Gender: Female
  • Needs new inspiration for motivation fuel.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #124 on: August 11, 2017, 07:40:27 PM »
Oh man, that's my little dude's favourite one. As a child, I used to bounce him around to that beat and he just loved it. Not too fast so not too rough for him, but slow enough that he could feel each beat and move with it when he got older. Oddly, he now has a spectacular sense of rhythm completely absent in his older brother.

I think the Mandela Effect is fascinating as a notion. I can't say one way or the other if it's true; I remain a skeptic. But I can't deny that such a wide-spread and sudden surge of the information, not to mention that it seems limited to a relatively small number of things, makes it a fascinating study in psychology, at the very least.

Offline Cookie

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #125 on: August 12, 2017, 10:20:05 AM »
I just found at least four different versions of the song on You Tube just now, all of which had "of the world" in them. My youngest loves Queen, so we've been listening pretty steadily for a year. I remember once tripping across one that just faded out and we all sang the last words anyways, because we were used to hearing them.

Especially with those whose liver performances are often played by radio stations, TV, etc. it's really not a good idea to take any one performance as evidence to the exclusion of all others.

Ah there you go then, there must have been a version recorded without that section if there's a 'Mandela effect' report on it.