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Author Topic: Mendella effect  (Read 4511 times)

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Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2017, 11:31:14 AM »
Also, point of interest, from https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_Arm


Orion Arm

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Observed structure of the Milky Way's spiral arms[1]

The Orion Arm, or Orion–Cygnus Arm, is a minor spiral arm of the Milky Way galaxy.[2] It is of interest because the Solar System (including the Earth) is inside it. The spiral arm is some 3,500 light-years (1,100 parsecs) across and approximately 10,000 light-years (3,100 parsecs) in length.[3]

The Orion Arm is named after the Orion constellation, one of the most prominent constellations. It is seen in the Northern Hemisphere during winter and in the Southern Hemisphere during summer. Some of the brightest stars and most famous celestial objects are in the Orion Arm: Betelgeuse, Rigel, the stars of Orion's Belt and the Orion nebula. They are shown on the interactive map below.

The Orion Arm is between the Carina–Sagittarius Arm (toward the Galactic centre) and the Perseus Arm (toward the outside Universe). The Perseus Arm is one of the two major arms of the Milky Way. The Solar system is on the Orion spur, between the two longer adjacent arms Perseus and Carina-Sagittarius.[4]

Inside the Orion Arm, the Solar System is close to the inner rim, in the Local Bubble. It is about halfway along the Orion Arm's length, about 8,000 parsecs (26,000 light-years) from the Galactic centre.



In this regard, we can see that the Orion arm and the Sagittarius arm are very close. What's more, http://earthsky.org/space/does-our-sun-reside-in-a-spiral-arm-of-the-milky-way-galaxy is quoted in the first paragraph with


Which spiral arm of the Milky Way contains our sun?
By Deborah Byrd in Space | May 20, 2014

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Our sun is one of billions of stars in the Milky Way galaxy? But where within this vast spiral structure do our sun and Earth reside?

We live in an island of stars called the Milky Way, and many know that our Milky Way is a spiral galaxy. In fact, it’s a barred spiral galaxy, which means that our galaxy probably has just two major spiral arms, plus a central bar that astronomers are only now beginning to understand. But where within this vast spiral structure do our sun and its planets reside? Our galaxy is about 100,000 light-years wide. We’re about 25,000 light-years from the center of the galaxy. It turns out we’re not located in one of the Milky Way’s two primary spiral arms. Instead, we’re located in a minor arm of the galaxy. Our local spiral arm is sometimes Orion Arm, or sometimes the Orion Spur. It’s between the Sagittarius and Perseus Arms of the Milky Way. The image below shows it.


If that's not enough to support the idea that between shifting, learning more and the possibility of things being confused, we have https://www.newscientist.com/article/2107456-our-home-spiral-arm-in-the-milky-way-is-less-wimpy-than-thought/  telling us....

By Rebecca Boyle

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
It’s tricky to map an entire galaxy when you live in one of its arms. But astronomers have made the clearest map yet of the Milky Way – and it turns out that the arm that hosts our solar system is even bigger than previously thought.

The idea that the Milky Way is a spiral was first proposed more than 150 years ago, but we only started identifying its limbs in the 1950s. Details about the galaxy’s exact structure are still hotly debated, such as the number of arms, their length and the size of the bar of hot gas and dust that stretches across its middle.

The star-filled arms are densely packed with gas and dust, where new stars are born. That dust can obscure stars we use to measure distances, complicating the mapping process.

.

Two of the arms, called Perseus and Scutum-Centaurus, are larger and filled with more stars, while the Sagittarius and Outer arms have fewer stars but just as much gas. The solar system has been thought to lie in a structure called the Orion Spur, or Local Arm, which is smaller than the nearby Perseus Arm.
Just as grand

Now, Ye Xu and colleagues from the Purple Mountain Observatory in Nanjing, China, say the Local Arm is just as grand as the others.

The team used the Very Long Baseline Array in New Mexico to make extremely accurate measurements of high-mass gas clouds in the arms, and used a star-measuring trigonometry trick called parallax to measure their distances.

“Radio telescopes can ‘see’ through the galactic plane to massive star forming regions that trace spiral structure, while optical wavelengths will be hidden by dust,” Xe says. “Achieving a highly accurate parallax is not easy.”

The new measurements suggest the Milky Way is not a grand design spiral with well-defined arms, but a spiral with many branches and subtle spurs.

However, Xu and colleagues say the Orion Spur is not a spur at all, but more in line with the galaxy’s other spectacular arms. The team also discovered a spur connecting the Local and Sagittarius arms.

“This lane has received little attention in the past because it does not correspond with any of the major spiral arm features of the inner galaxy,” the authors of the study write.

Future measurements with other radio telescopes will shed more light on the galaxy’s shape. The European Space Agency’s Gaia spacecraft is in the midst of a mission to make a three-dimensional map of our galaxy, too. More measurements of the high-mass gas regions will help astronomers determine what our galaxy looks like, from the inside out.


Since that debate is still raging and seems to have begun with the concept that the Orion Spur was actually an offshoot of the Sagittarius arm, it's not surprising that they might have gotten mixed up.

Wikipedia tells us about Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy,

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
Original radio series
See also: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (radio series) and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Primary and Secondary Phases

The first radio series of six episodes (called "Fits" after the names of the sections of Lewis Carroll's nonsense poem "The Hunting of the Snark")[10] was broadcast in 1978 on BBC Radio 4. Despite a low-key launch of the series (the first episode was broadcast at 10:30 pm on Wednesday, 8 March 1978), it received generally good reviews and a tremendous audience reaction for radio.[11]


We'll say 1980 for a good, round number. Do you think it possible that considering back then, there were still 8-tracks and vinyl records and now we have smart phones, it's possible that in nearly forty years, an author - not unlike all of us here - might have misunderstood the relatively new information (or that yet undiscovered) and managed to publish a nonsensical fiction book that doesn't require peer review?

Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #101 on: August 10, 2017, 11:40:17 AM »
By pointing out Blythe's post, I was attempting to get you to acknowledge the fact that you are not debating in good faith.  You've ignored all the points people have made that you can't refute (in other words, nearly all of them) and moved the goalposts numerous times.  (In case you don't know that last phrase, a definition is available in the link Mith provided.)

You also cannot dismiss it as memory rewrite or memory lost; because guess what? Lots of other people out there are raising the same questions. The ME is a crazy thing. Dead people coming back to life. Stephen Hawking? He is dead in my universe, but alive in this one. Betty White(Golden Girls?) She is dead in my universe, but 90 something in this one. Scour the reddit posts, which I will probably end up migrating to for better disscussion with like minded experiences since this chat is not going anywhere, other than the running in circles or the expectation of evidence and credibility(when keep in mind, what can be offered is mostly old world residue that hasn’t bled out.)

Guess what?  When people find a group where they feel they belong, it's ridiculously easy for all the members of that group to talk each other into believing all sorts of things.  Whether you believe it or not, memory alters, and links have been given to studies verifying this.  Hearing enough stories along the same lines WILL alter your perceptions and memories to an astounding degree, especially when these stories come from people you feel connected to.  This is basic psychology.

And discussions will always go better when everyone involved does nothing but agree with everyone else, yes, though such discussions are rarely profitable.



Since I'm genuinely curious to discover how far you've considered the more scientific aspects of this -- you know, things that don't rely solely on your memory being perfect while everyone else's is just wrong -- I'll try outlining some specific questions to see if you'll address them.

1. I think we can agree that, assuming something the size of a human being is being moved from one reality to another, a vast amount of energy must be involved in that transfer.  What is the source of this energy?

2. Why is there even 'residue' in the first place?  If something so immense is happening that entire other WORLDS are being created, why doesn't that just overwhelm all this supposedly lingering evidence?

3. Several descriptions I've read elsewhere have mentioned that ME occurs at certain important focal points in history.  That part makes some sense to me.  But why are things like misquoted movies or Betty White being dead involved?  She seems like a cool lady, but I doubt she's vitally important enough to our world to count as a focal point, and Vader's exact words can't mean THAT much, with apologies to all Star Wars fans.  Also, why would things STILL be changing, as your post about Apollo 13 would seem to indicate?

4. Why is it an easier thing for you to accept that you've been thrown into the wrong universe for some inexplicable reason by some unknowable force than to just accept that you don't have a photographic memory?  Presumably there are things you will admit to having genuinely forgotten or remembered incorrectly -- why are some put under the heading of ME and others are just normal human mistakes?

Offline Regina Minx

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2017, 04:27:36 PM »
I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed incongruities like this. One theory I heard to explain this is that when they fired the Super collider at CERN, they actually destroyed the universe, and everyone's consciousness was simply absorbed into the nearest alternate timeline in which everything more or less is the same, but the universe wasn't ended....

Not sure if I'm on board with that...but considering the power of quantum computing (parallel universes on a chip basically) it wouldn't surprise me if some sort of quantum weirdness was going on.

So...people misremembering something is somehow the less likely explanation to science-fiction level alteration of space and time?

People have shitty memories. But only do people have shitty memories, they also have unwarrented confidence in the accuracy of their memories. 9/11 was a big flashpoint event. The details of that day were well-documented, and almost everyone who was alive at the time and above a certain age has some memories of what happened that day. And yet, despite this being one of the most well-documented events in recent history, peoples' memories are flawed as a longitudinal study of memories of 9/11 revealed.

Quote
Ever since 9/11 occurred, research into flashbulb memories has helped form a better understanding about memory and forgetting. So far, there have been more than twenty studies looking at how well people recall the 9/11 attacks and the kind of memory errors that can occur. These include errors of omission (forgetting important details of what happened), and errors of commission (false memories involving event details that never really happened).  Even people who are extremely confident that they are remembering important details can make critical errors.

Emphasis mine.

Offline Lustful Bride

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2017, 06:21:19 PM »
So...people misremembering something is somehow the less likely explanation to science-fiction level alteration of space and time?

People have shitty memories. But only do people have shitty memories, they also have unwarrented confidence in the accuracy of their memories. 9/11 was a big flashpoint event. The details of that day were well-documented, and almost everyone who was alive at the time and above a certain age has some memories of what happened that day. And yet, despite this being one of the most well-documented events in recent history, peoples' memories are flawed as a longitudinal study of memories of 9/11 revealed.

Emphasis mine.

I feel like this might be the most accurate way to explain this all.

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2017, 07:10:46 PM »
Agreed. Sort of what most of us have been trying to explore, though. But how does one go explaining that to people who wholeheartedly believe they're dimension-hopping dead people from a particle physics experiment on another world?

Offline Seranova

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #105 on: August 11, 2017, 02:42:47 AM »
I've been semi-following this thread, and been debating putting in my thoughts, as it were, as I find the idea of the ME to be a bit far-fetched. This is putting it mildly. I felt there was nothing constructive I could add that hasn't already been stated. But there's one thing that has been brought up several times that is truly bugging me, and something I simply cannot leave well enough alone. So I must ask this one question;

If the human heart used to be on the left side of the rib cage, then where exactly was the left lung?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 02:44:34 AM by Seranova »

Offline Regina Minx

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #106 on: August 11, 2017, 06:59:37 AM »
I've been semi-following this thread, and been debating putting in my thoughts, as it were, as I find the idea of the ME to be a bit far-fetched. This is putting it mildly. I felt there was nothing constructive I could add that hasn't already been stated. But there's one thing that has been brought up several times that is truly bugging me, and something I simply cannot leave well enough alone. So I must ask this one question;

If the human heart used to be on the left side of the rib cage, then where exactly was the left lung?

Was the human heart ever on the left side of the rib cage? Citation needed.

Offline Seranova

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #107 on: August 11, 2017, 01:49:00 PM »
Human anatomy looks different to me as well. The intestines were never that jumble of a mess. The heart is apparently now in the center when it used to be on the left, and seems bigger? Eyes have bones behind the socket when before I am sure it was just cartilage. Ribs looks much different as well, freaky so.

This quote was taken from page 3 of this topic, and it was mentioned elsewhere within the thread. I don't have citation for this, as it wasn't my claim to begin with. I do know the human heart tilts slightly to the left, but that's a far cry from actually being on the left. I'm having a hard time making sense of placement, as an 8-10(?) ounce muscle takes up a fair amount of room in the rib-cage alone. If it did indeed used to reside on the left hand side in some alternate reality, then the left lung would have to be displaced in some way, and there's not a whole lot of room for both to share real estate.



Image used from britannica.com

Offline AmberStarfire

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #108 on: August 11, 2017, 02:29:35 PM »
Interesting. I've never heard this theory before.

I remember that Morpheus quote, by the way. Are you sure it wasn't just on the trailer or something?

As for the heart, we were taught in school that it was a bit to the left. However, it's been over 20 years since I took biology.

And Googling the Mandela Effect, it came up with the example of the song 'We Are the Champions'.. I remember it ending with 'of the world' as well, which is strange. I do clearly remember that, unless it was in a different version of the song. It's a song that lots of people have sung over the years.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 03:14:06 PM by AmberStarfire »

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #109 on: August 11, 2017, 03:37:00 PM »
Well...there is apparently a problem with learning things in school. Public schools lie and intentionally teach un-truths. They intentionally taught me things they knew weren't true, only to reveal later they lied in the first place.

Most notably, every kid in my second grade history class was taught that Christopher Columbus was the first European to 'discover' the american convenient. Then in like 10th grade history they told me that the Vikings had been in America LONG before him. I don't know why they couldn't just say that in the first place.

But yeah, I remember the heart being to the left. That's why when we said the pledge we always put our right hand over our left pectoral. 'Hand over the heart' as they said...felt it beating and everything. But yeah, that alone is proof of nothing. But it is an odd ritual if the heart isn't on the left. If it's more centered then it shouldn't matter which hand you used and the instruction should have been to aim for the sternum instead of the pectoral.

Offline Regina Minx

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #110 on: August 11, 2017, 03:41:41 PM »
So your citation for the notion that the heart 'used to be' on the left side of the chest is that elementary school children say the pledge of allegiance with their hands on their left pectorals?

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #111 on: August 11, 2017, 03:56:06 PM »
Okay then.  Let's start off teaching elementary school kids that you can divide by zero (the entirety of calculus) and take the square roots of negative numbers (complex numbers/analysis).

Offline Regina Minx

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #112 on: August 11, 2017, 04:01:38 PM »
Wow...I'm actually convinced by the theory of alternate universes now. Look at this picture I found:



Proof positive that in one timeline, Germany won WW2 and the world became Nazis. Then time travellers at CERN must have changed it somehow!

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #113 on: August 11, 2017, 04:28:59 PM »
yeah, that alone is proof of nothing.

How is that a citation? I'm saying point blank it's not proof of anything. Just pointing out it's on odd ritual that could easily confuse school children...and that the information presented to school children isn't necessarily accurate anyway.

The fact you are attacking my post without even reading it suggests you aren't here for discussion, but argument. You are not open to the possibility this phenomena can be real, nor are you interested in hearing anything anyone has to say in attempts to support it.

I can admit, I have contained in my brain, a limited amount of information and further more, an imperfect understanding of that information. I fully understand that the nature of memory is inherently unreliable, and that is the EASIEST explanation.

But I believe, key word, BELIEVE, that the nature of the universe is infinite. I built that belief based on the experiences in my life and what I personally know to be true. Some is speculation, and it is entirely subjective. I've opened my mind to the concept of infinite possibly...so I do not discount or inherently dismiss something like the Mandela Effect off hand simply because it sounds unlikely.

Unlikely is still possible.

So I explore the possibility and ponder the implications it may have IF it is true, simply for the fun of doing so. The funny thing is though, it does not conflict with my personal experiences or how I've viewed the world prior to hearing of it. Therefore, I have to keep considering it a POSSIBILITY. But that's all I actually consider it. It's not fact. So very few facts actually exist when it comes to the nature of consciousness and the fabric of the universe. It is difficult to seriously consider such topics without drifting into speculation.

But I don't consider speculation to be a bad thing. Its how you refine concepts and develop understanding of things that expand outside what you already know...can be wrong, but chances are, nobody is actually right about that stuff anyway, so what difference does it make?

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #114 on: August 11, 2017, 04:30:57 PM »
Wow...I'm actually convinced by the theory of alternate universes now. Look at this picture I found:

Proof positive that in one timeline, Germany won WW2 and the world became Nazis. Then time travellers at CERN must have changed it somehow!

Or, a little further digging leads to:  http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

Offline AmberStarfire

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #115 on: August 11, 2017, 04:55:59 PM »
Did you ever think it could be some kind of social experiment?

Change a few things and wait for people to notice. See what percentage believe what they remember vs believing the amended version, and who pays little attention at all.


Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #116 on: August 11, 2017, 05:05:58 PM »
And a quote for that article does play into what I had mentioned.

Quote
The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.", should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."

Holding a hat at your left shoulder puts your right palm over your left pectoral...where the heart apparently isn't. An odd tradition if the goal is to put your hand over your heart. That's all I'm saying.

Did you ever think it could be some kind of social experiment?

Change a few things and wait for people to notice. See what percentage believe what they remember vs believing the amended version, and who pays little attention at all.



That is also possible. But generally people tend to be lazy. To filter that much information that's on the internet and other media and alter it like that is...well, more work than it would be worth.

Though...I suppose if one were to control information on that scale it would give them pretty much direct control of people's thoughts, as they would be able to filter only the information they want them to have to them. And especially if they trust the computer more than their own memories....That might be worth the effort.

Since apparently VHS tapes in people's closets were altered, however, in order for that theory to work they would have to have teams of ninjas running around, breaking into houses and swapping out tapes or something...which, again is possible but...not likely.

Hell...honestly I think it would be easier just to create an alternate reality than it would be to pull that off...(just boot up a quantum computer)


Offline Valerian

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #117 on: August 11, 2017, 05:18:33 PM »
If the heart is (or was ever) more than very slightly to the left of center, I can't see how CPR ever worked on anyone.

Offline mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #118 on: August 11, 2017, 05:29:27 PM »
If the heart is (or was ever) more than very slightly to the left of center, I can't see how CPR ever worked on anyone.

Dunno. Not a doctor, can't say how, only that it apparently did....unless it didn't, and that's why we all died. :P

Offline Seranova

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #119 on: August 11, 2017, 05:41:11 PM »
Movie quotes "changing" is not difficult to believe, in my opinion. We live in a society where pop culture parodies itself ad nauseum, and fraught with copyright laws and loopholes that encourage little things changed here and there to adhere to said laws. I can't tell you how many versions of the quintessential Star Wars quote, or the line from Dirty Harry I've heard from numerous sources. Each one is slightly different, and often muddles the memory of the original. To point to that as evidence seems silly to me. It's like the old "telephone" game that was played as a kid; it starts with a whispered phrase in one ear, then passed along until it sounds nothing like the original. In reality, I'm more amazed that the quotes haven't been distorted more as time goes on and they continue to be parodied and referenced.

Logos "changing" is easily explained by most often the brain automatically filling in what feels most natural, which is evident when reading misspelled words. The brain fills in and is able to read and translate.

Most everything else can be explained by gaps in memory and education, as far as I'm concerned.

Offline Cookie

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #120 on: August 11, 2017, 05:51:18 PM »


And Googling the Mandela Effect, it came up with the example of the song 'We Are the Champions'.. I remember it ending with 'of the world' as well, which is strange. I do clearly remember that, unless it was in a different version of the song. It's a song that lots of people have sung over the years.

Yeah different version, Freddy sang 'of the world' on that iconic Live Aid performance, which has been played so many times, it'd be one that almost everyone's seen.

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #121 on: August 11, 2017, 06:51:05 PM »
I just found at least four different versions of the song on You Tube just now, all of which had "of the world" in them. My youngest loves Queen, so we've been listening pretty steadily for a year. I remember once tripping across one that just faded out and we all sang the last words anyways, because we were used to hearing them.

Especially with those whose liver performances are often played by radio stations, TV, etc. it's really not a good idea to take any one performance as evidence to the exclusion of all others.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #122 on: August 11, 2017, 07:04:43 PM »


Looks more or less right to me. CPR works because you are pressing into the sternum which compresses the heart, doing the work of the heart's muscles for them. It doesn't do their work particularly well, which is why CPR is a temporary measure at best. Also, in order to press the heart through the sternum, you need to put a lot of pressure on the ribs which makes breaking ribs almost a foregone conclusion.

Heart is slightly in front and between the lungs, and the anatomy of it (slightly lopsided) makes it so that it is more to the left side than the right. Pressing down on the sternum thus pushes blood from the right chamber into the left and from there into the lungs and the rest of the body. That's what they taught us in First Aid, anyways.

Thinking of the music ‘Staying alive’ by the Bee Gees and performing compressions on the beat can assist to keep the correct rhythm.


Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #123 on: August 11, 2017, 07:26:45 PM »
Thinking of the music ‘Staying alive’ by the Bee Gees and performing compressions on the beat can assist to keep the correct rhythm.

Another One Bites The Dust has the same bpm - but isn't nearly as encouraging when the patient comes around.  (Paramedics have a weird sense of humor.)

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #124 on: August 11, 2017, 07:40:27 PM »
Oh man, that's my little dude's favourite one. As a child, I used to bounce him around to that beat and he just loved it. Not too fast so not too rough for him, but slow enough that he could feel each beat and move with it when he got older. Oddly, he now has a spectacular sense of rhythm completely absent in his older brother.

I think the Mandela Effect is fascinating as a notion. I can't say one way or the other if it's true; I remain a skeptic. But I can't deny that such a wide-spread and sudden surge of the information, not to mention that it seems limited to a relatively small number of things, makes it a fascinating study in psychology, at the very least.