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Author Topic: Mendella effect  (Read 2836 times)

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Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2017, 12:14:47 PM »
Is it possible you mixed it up with some other nation? Or that your memory of the map is simply incorrect?

If not, can you provide some sort of supporting evidence for it? Not simply the insistence that it was different, but an example of why you remember or some image/writing/etc to support your idea?

Otherwise, every individual in the world is forced to choose between believing because of lack of evidence, disbelieving because of lack of evidence or simply dismissing it all as a figment of your imagination.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2017, 12:16:11 PM »
It is hard to provide evidence when most of the world has shifted. Digging things up isn't easy.

However I did dig this up on Dolly.

http://www.universalexports.net/Movies/moonraker-cast.shtml

Quote
Dolly
Played by: Blanche Ravalec

Description: In perhaps the strangest love affair in the series, Jaws meets Dolly in Rio after his failed attempt on Bond and Goodhead's lives. The complete opposite of Jaws, Dolly is a short blond girl with pigtails, glasses and braces. It is her influence that leads Jaws to the side of good and she also hears the one line Jaws says in his two movies, "Well, here's to us."

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2017, 12:33:38 PM »
Well, when the allegation is that the dimensions have shifted. There is as yet no scientific evidence of this.

Okay, so there's the bit about the braces. I'm afraid that I've spent most of my life avoiding Bond movies, so can you find a clip where that doesn't happen and hasn't been edited?

Remembering of course that edits to movies happen all the time, even when they're already released. I point out the Star Wars franchise, movies edited down for TV, director's cuts, extended footage scenarios.... etc.

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2017, 12:41:39 PM »
Try this link: https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/moonraker-dolly-did-not-wear-braces

There's zero evidence for the actress having worn braces.  None of the still shots taken on set show her with braces.  That's a classic case of the memory playing tricks.

The problem here is that any time anyone offers contrary evidence, all you have to do is say that you KNOW it was different before and you KNOW you're remembering it right and other people's memories don't count. That makes a logical discussion difficult.

If there's actually some sort of universe-shifting going on, though -- not exactly the Occam's Razor explanation, but assuming that's the case -- how is it that we're all apparently in the same universe now, able to compare notes on these things?  Shouldn't the people with the opposing memories all be together on some alternate Earth?

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2017, 12:49:47 PM »
From what I understand, the hypothesis states that when universes "bump" into each other, some lives are displaced. Cited examples are often of people who go to work after fifteen years at a company only to discover that there is no record of them at all, that there is no home for them, no evidence of their existence at all and yet they are very clearly present, oftentimes carrying with them documentation such as drivers licenses and birth certificates that seem to make a legitimate claim. In other cases, there are people claiming whole countries existed only twelve hours prior but are caught in airports and the like with no place to return to and the citizen of nowhere, despite having documentation such as passports and the like. Again, I can only say that these are theoretical because I do not know of any official recognition of these people, and spies cannot be ruled out, nor can urban legends.

That said, I do understand that you are correct, logical discussion of the subject is difficult when the only evidence for or against a case can be summed up as being within the minds of the people making the claim. Unfortunately, in the scientific community, those making a claim are responsible for providing proof.

I do want to point out, however, that there was some evidence, however unsubstantiated, that the universe we know MIGHT have "bumped" into another universe, supporting the multiverse hypothesis, just recently.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/05/17/first-evidence-multiverse-scientists-think-cold-spot-space-could/
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/06/01/scientists-may-have-found-evidence-parallel-universe.html
http://www.newsweek.com/multiverse-evidence-parallel-universe-cold-spot-cmb-618735
http://www.msn.com/en-us/video/nerdcore/another-universe-may-have-bumped-into-ours-and-we-might-have-proof/vp-BBDwYFd

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2017, 01:01:08 PM »
Also youtube videos on more residue from reality I remember.







Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2017, 01:13:17 PM »
I have seen a lot of YouTube videos about this, but none of them have changed my mind, since they cannot provide an example that cannot be explained. More to the point, I've also seen a lot of videos about how Aliens are spiking the drinking water in major cities to turn people gay and how the earth is flat, so I can't really take a lot of them seriously. More accurately, however, I can't take them as absolute proof and must remain skeptical since none of them tend to be verifiable and rarely if ever cite sources.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2017, 01:18:12 PM »


Enjoy 20 minutes.

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2017, 01:20:14 PM »
Yeah, I've seen that one already, unfortunately.

Once again, there is nothing there that can't be explained by perfectly reasonable means. Often when they say "undeniable" they mean that their critical thinking skills are unsupported by pesky things like data, analysis and instead enjoy a hefty dose of confirmation bias.

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2017, 01:40:07 PM »
Did you happen to click on any of the links I posted, Drake?  The TED talk in particular was very interesting, I thought.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2017, 02:20:46 PM »
It isn't false memories. There has been a shift somewhere or some distortion in realities. Of course the only proof lingering is the many others out there that share similar, it is impossible to believe that so many people will share equally distorted memories of events, locations, images, etc.

Who knows. Maybe CERN killed everyone with their project and now we are experiencing a merge of realities. Maybe dimensions clashed. Maybe we are living in a holographic world. Maybe me and a good portion of the world is crazy.

We are just at an impasse of different realities. I expect in your reality the Lindbergh baby was found dead and the person was arrested where in my reality the case was never solved, ever.

In my reality no one died inside the pentagon attack during 911, but here apparently 125 died.
In my reality the Black Tom event involving the Statue of Liberty never happened. I imagined something so major would of been taught in history class, but this is first I ever heard of it when browsing videos.
In my reality there was only one great wall and that was China, there was never a great wall of India as well. (How mysterious something so big and major poof out of no where, considering it is the second largest wall in history?)
In my reality placement of continents are different than they are here, this is not from false perception of former globes or maps existing today.
In my reality only four people were in JFK car during the assassination, not six.
Human anatomy looks different to me as well. The intestines were never that jumble of a mess. The heart is apparently now in the center when it used to be on the left, and seems bigger? Eyes have bones behind the socket when before I am sure it was just cartilage. Ribs looks much different as well, freaky so.

Of course there are those odd ones that rise up about the traffic lights being actually reverse. I never remember that, I always remember red, yellow, green. Not green, yellow, red. And the change of water from hot and cold, but they seem the same to me as they had been.

I can go on and on, but hey, finding concrete evidence is hard when there has been obvious parallel shifts with only so much residue lingering about and what residue that is found is just passed off as implausible proof to something else.

So where do I stand?

Apparently there are two realities. This one and the one I am from, both can be said true, but those that may be in this one may find it hard believing otherwise. Sounds crazy, no? How do you think I feel personally when I realize that the world I live in is at present a lie compared to the one I likely came from? Which makes me question just how long have I been living in a ME effected world, till starting to notice it now? I am sure many other people that experiencing similar are having their thoughts as joggled up as mine. Cause part of me is torn in wanting to keep pursuing the truth of it, to see other notable changes that have been made examples all over youtube while another part just wants to forget it all and go with the flow of the new world.

All and all, nothing else has changed in my daily life cycle, work and life are the same. Who knows, maybe there are other glitches in the Matrix that I have yet to notice, well besides some of the more obvious ones of changes in products and minor alternations of place names; but nothing big and flaming red flag has rose yet where I live to raise a brow. Or well, without my present knowledge; besides anatomy differences and well, a birthmark I once had on my left hand being gone. The birthmark itself looked like a cigarette burn mark, which I had all my life, but poof. No pencil-eraser size circle and distorted skin where it should be; nothing, but I guess I imagine that as well or it just healed up and went away finally after 30 so years.

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #61 on: August 07, 2017, 03:42:21 PM »
Firstly, I would refute terminology such as "obvious" when by its very nature the Mandela effect is not obvious.

However, I would stand to point out that I have never heard about Black Tom, anything about a Pentagon attack at all in 9/11, never heard of the Great Wall of India. I'd also never heard of the Alamo before I was twenty five. None of these things is proof of anything aside from gaps in education. It is not impossible to believe that there are cases of mass memory change or hysteria. It's actually been well-documented.

How does the Mandela effect account for people who remember the common memory of one thing and the "alternate" memory of another thing? Is it more lilely it is a dimensional shift/some sort of inconsistently-shared death dream or that repetition of erroneous facts/rebranding/changes that never needed defending are being brought under strange scrutiny by conspiracy theorists? There are too many assumptions that have to be made in irder to believe in the Mandella effect.

Traffic lights are arranged differently in different countries and the colour blind often mistake them, not to mention how rural communities prior to a certain date commonly used their own arrangement. There are well-documented cases of birthmarks fading or disappearing over time, and of people failing to realize changes in things they are used to seeing until it is drastic. These fail to prove much, honestly.

I understand that feeling out of place in the world is an unhappy state of being, but being unable to prove or disprove the Mandela effect, I'm hesitant to use words such as "obvious" and "definite" and "undeniable" because this gets in the way of having meaningful discussion on the subject (or any subject). When it comes down to it, where does a believer draw the line between alternate universe and faulty memory? What's to stop them from simply claiming they are never wrong, only out of place? This is a dangerous tack to take and leads to all sorts of issues if you cannot accept the possibility that one is incorrect.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #62 on: August 07, 2017, 09:04:56 PM »
For starters the ME is not a conspiracy. How can it be a conspiracy when other people remember similar things different? How can it be a conspiracy when there is no actual plotting/conspiring or unlawful/harmful intentions? The ME is about people who express views of experiencing something much different than they remembering, alternate truths to whatever present truths exist. Does this make them wrong? In this reality, yes; but when many of their views and memories align with my reality, then no. Is this reality wrong? Why, yes, for those of us that now finally awaken to it with memories of an alternate reality, but at the same time it is apparently right with what evidence exists to support changes in events, locations, anatomy, etc.  Sounds crazy, no? Of course it does, even to me, but its true on my end.

I decided to google around involving disappearing birthmarks, most spots and likewise I notice vanish during childhood. I have not found anything stating otherwise involving adulthood of the disappearance of marks from pigmented birthmarks. Most of the ones listed didn't really reflect the type I had, so at most I assume it to be a different type of mole since it states they range in color and mine was a lighter hue. Kind of like a missing layer of skin, I guess, that would generally heal over time in its appearance, but I had it since childhood, I remember it in my teens, in my late twenties. Now it is gone.

 From what I read about moles, over time they seem to fade away; but that doesn't explain complete disappearing. If it was faded, I would be able to notice its presence still in the general location it supposedly should be, instead, all skin looks the same there on the surface. I have other darker spots further down my arm that had always been there and still are, although the larger, pencil-eraser size one that had been further up my hand is completely gone.

If anything, I am just surprise others here not listing any of their experiences more. Or maybe they fear of ridicule or being deemed crazy? Personally, I don't care what people think/believe. Your views are your own. Proving ME is no different then proving an existence of a higher power in whatever religion one may put their faith in. Simply it can't be done, no matter how much back and forth we go about this. Since it can just be passed off as either 'faulty memories,' 'improper citations,' or any other 'bad evidence presentation.' 

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2017, 09:38:11 PM »
I'm afraid that convincing me that truth is subjective is going to be a very hard sell. Part of what makes it truth is that it's objective. With that out of the way, you can claim it all you like, but that doesn't make it true, much like any other issue the world faces in terms of perspective.

A conspiracy theory might have been a lazy, catch-all phrase. However, I don't believe that the heart of the matter is any different. In the end, the concept of "alternate truths" is just as ludicrous as when Conway said it. Alternative truths, alternative facts, these are simply called lies or false, depending on whether one wishes to add the connotation of responsibility.

Every piece of evidence can be explained by scientifically verified methods and phenomena we're already well familiar with. What, then, makes this Mandela Effect, particularly with the fervor you communicate, any different than an unfortunate religious blindness? There are those who speak of the absolute nature of "god", for instance, and insist that morality is subject to this god's whims and therefore reliant on adherence to this god's principles. How is that different from insisting that the Mandela Effect has to be true and that those of us who accept misremembering, miseducation, etc. are merely flaws in our mentality must accept that it is a truth? It is, until verified, merely a hypothesis.

This is the trouble I have with many things. People water down phrases like "proof", "evidence", "theory" and it doesn't mean what they think it means. Pointing to a lot of things and saying "These aren't how I thought they were, so we must live in an alternate timeline" doesn't make it believable. It's must more likely that "these are not as I thought they were, therefore I must be wrong about some things and too stubborn to admit it so I've concocted/bought into a theory that makes me look like a victim and not mistaken". To be clear, I am not stating that this is true of you, in particular, in any fashion. However, I believe that is more likely to be true than the alternative.

To be clear, you're saying that it's a mole that has disappeared, that "would generally heal over time in its appearance"?

I think you're right in the case that ME can't, at least at this point, be proven. We simply don't have the tools to do so. But in the end, when SO MANY of the same experiences are listed... I mean, how many times have you watched the videos about the Mandela Effect and suddenly thought "hey, yeah, I know that one, it's the same for me!" You don't have to answer, I suspect that it is a high number, however, as it always seems to be with believers of any outlandish hypothesis. Given that, there are probably many who get Berenstain Bears mixed around (as shown earlier), or what have you... But most people aren't going to recognize something that looks so close to a mental miscalculation. For instance, if I were to buy a bottle of Febreze, I probably wouldn't notice what the bottle actually SAID and would end up throwing it away. If someone mentioned it to me, I might think "Oh, yeah, didn't that used to have another E in it?" "No, just the one," says friend, and I shrug and throw it away anyhow.

No gigantic moment of epiphany, no sudden subscription to a society of people comparing notes. In fact, I likely wouldn't think of the Mandela Effect unless someone actually said those specific words. Most people tend to react to memory gaps with a flippant disregard because we are already aware that our brains are utterly and deeply imperfect, only storing a small percentage of information correctly and filling in the details around it better. It's a method of data compression and is not unknown to most of those who have ever opened a ZIP folder.

What you insist are memories of the Mandela Effect might simply be things others categorize as trivial lapse in memory, and it's very likely that an extremely small number of people actually put faith in the Mandela Effect. Generally speaking, I've found correlation between the numbers of religious, conspiracy theorists, conservatives and those who believe in the Mandela Effect. It tends to draw in a certain type of individual. Creative writing and roleplaying, however, tends to lean towards the different circle of science enthusiasts, music lovers, liberals and disbelievers in the Mandela Effect. Of course, not everyone will be neatly categorized thusly, but I'm confident that a venn diagram will show heavy overlap in those areas.

It's entirely possible that you're finding yourself in a position where you are one of relatively few who have experienced anything they would ascribe to the Mandela Effect, more likely that they have put their faith in the concept of scientific explanations and not the doomsday thought process that a very, very, extremely small chance the supercollider has somehow killed all of us, or the smaller still idea of merging universes, and instead reached for an explanation that is scientifically supported, that has been in the process of study and reinforcement for decades before the Mandela Effect was even a thought. It is possible that our a few of us have one or maybe two stories, fewer still have a slew and most of us don't put stock in it with perfectly reasonable explanations so near to hand that can only be foiled by the stubborn insistence that we are not wrong. Against all evidence to the contrary.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2017, 12:15:30 AM »
Except for the fact that many people just can't suddenly remember a phrase or paraphrase in a movie that is no longer there or was never there in the first place. Phrases that don't exist, such as the Matrix quote. I remember Morpheus telling Neo clearly the 'What if I told you, everything you ever thought or said was a lie. That the world you know around you is nothing more than an illusion, part of a much greater Matrix. --- " There is a bit more, maybe it is worded differently, but it went something like that. I just can't fully recall the complete sentences back then, but it was during the scene involving the taking of the pills; where Neo had to choose between the blue and red. Of course now that convo has been completely erased in the movie.

There are a lot of What if I told you Meme's with Morpheous picture out there. There is also an article somewhere in 2012 referencing movie quotes involving famous memes.

http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/articles/8-movie-quotes-became-memes

Closer to the bottom regarding the Matrix one.

Yes, I can understand maybe some words in movie phrases such as Interview with A vampire and Interview with THE vampire could be mix as could Sex AND the City or Sex IN the city. Or classic Life WAS like a box or chocolate or Life IS like a box of chocolates.

Conjuring up complete phrases that were never there? Why would people go through trouble making a meme of something that was never actually said? Why would people insist of it becoming a meme as it was a popular Morpheus phrase from the movie?  Sounds like a lot of trouble and effort to me.

As for the mole, yes it was a mole. A light skin pigmentation altering. Of course such personally experiences are generally referenced as 'glitches in the matrix', than that of ME. MEs generally involve more widely known things of culture than personal changes that Matrix Glitches are known for. But I haven't found anywhere about moles fully disappearing, unless you know of some better citation links on such. The healing over time was a reference to skin injuries as I was trying to give a better example of its appearance, its texture/view had always appeared to be like a small layer of missing skin. You know, the type if you ever scrape your body and get a scab and if you peel the scab you see that soft pink? Instead it was a whiter hue that been there for many years and no I never scraped that part. It had been something I always had since childhood and adult hood. Not any more, not even outline or nothing. The only info on moles I found was that they 'nearly' fade away. By nearly, they don't completely fade away, there should be still some residue or outline of it being there, but instead my skin is completely normal in that spot.

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2017, 12:37:33 AM »
Conjuring up complete phrases that were never there? Why would people go through trouble making a meme of something that was never actually said? Why would people insist of it becoming a meme as it was a popular Morpheus phrase from the movie?  Sounds like a lot of trouble and effort to me.

Because people are bored.

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2017, 12:38:28 AM »
See, that's another thing. The Neo line. I remember hearing it paraphrased by memes, quotes, various ways that people repeated it, shortened it down so that it would be recognizeable and thinking "That's funny, that's not the way it was actually said in the movie." And I've noticed that a few times. People who thought the Star Wars quote was off... for example, I remembered the original quote just fine (I didn't see the movie till I was like, seven or something) and then I remembered people putting the "Luke" bit in afterward, mostly so that people would know where the quote came from. And I'm certain that those examples can account for - if not all - a great number of the problems we're seeing crop up. Someone repeats it a certain way, it becomes a famous misquote made to make identifying the reference easier, and now people fill in the missing pieces of memory (which we've established is imperfect and functions this way) with the information they thought they had. Meanwhile, it's simply not that way. It never was, it's just a case of people badly remembering it for the sake of pop culture.

If it was a justifiable case of the Mandela Effect, how would I still have a memory of the right way to say it while people around me followed the yellow brick road into madness and I maintained the right memory of the real way to do it even as people around me are now freaking out because they've been misquoting it this whole time and I WITNESSED THEM DO IT? How can you look to me and say it's justified then?

You'd be surprised what sort of effort people will go to in order to convince themselves of something that doesn't actually exist. I... I feel like this is a case of tragic irony.

I'm not entirely certain I'm buying the concept of reality being a hologram or program or whatever the Matrix would be classified as, and I've heard a few hypotheses about this, too. I think people want things to be so much like the entertainment they consume that they fabricate problems that were never there. It's a fun thought as far as being creative goes, but I feel like it's growing into an alarming case of mass delusions predicated on mistakes that were made and now people have let it go too far and they can't seem to own up to them.

When I was a child (four? Five?) I had convinced myself the world was populated by tiny little one-inch-high elves that were divided by "green" and "blue" and "red" elves (think more Rice Krispies and less Tolkien), and some were good and some were evil and some were in charge of keeping the balance. And there were three elves that were about three feet high, almost exactly the same as the rest except they were the grandfather elves and that my friend was wrapped up in this and possessed by the elves... I believed it so much I started having nightmares about them, started having panic attacks, freaked out... all over the course of a few weeks. Obviously now, I can look back on it and see what happened, but in the case of the moment when I was thinking of it, it was all way too real and I had created it for myself. But I believed it, including places I had never been and things I had never done and I was absolutely convinced it had all happened.

I'm not seeing much by way of difference between the two occurrences.

The Jackalope. Remember that monstrosity? From Americas Funniest People? "Fast as fast can be, you'll never catch me!" For years I thought I'd made it up because no one I'd talked to had any clue what I was talking about. Same with Astro Boy. Then, the internet came around, they remade Astro Boy and here I was congratulating myself for a job well done in retaining those memories. It's terribly easy for us to fool our minds, one way or another. It's terribly easy to remind ourselves of things that never happened, because each time you recall a memory, it gets fuzzier. Distorted. Largely because we're actually only recalling the last time we recalled the memory, not the actual master copy itself.

So, if I tell someone that, for instance, I remember Captain Planet having a sixth member for a few seasons, and they barely remember the show, and I start to describe something in vivid detail I can actually convince them that they saw a sixth member of the show. I can convince them that Captain Planet had six members and then the Cap, and they'll swear up and down that I'm right, that's absolutely how it worked, because we both remember it. Really, they're only remembering my re-write of the memory they had. A corruption in the software, as it were. A faulty program.

An incorrect memory.

As for birth marks, I'll have to look into it with the new information, I'm not a medical professional. However, with it being referred to as birthmark, and knowing that I had one that faded away only last year with my second pregnancy at the age of thirty one, I do know that some fade randomly. I'm just not sure of the why and how and what. I'll let you know what I find.

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2017, 12:47:57 AM »
Hah! Oniya, I just saw this in the page you linked.



Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2017, 01:19:53 AM »
Although there was a voice toy from official creator of Star Wars that had Dark Vaders voice in it saying the Join the darkside/rule together phrase and then after it. Luke, I am your father. It was in one of the videos I believe I posted involving  MEs, if not, I guess I can look for individual video on youtube, shouldn't be too hard locating.

Because we are from different realities. You have a harder time believing that factor. Here is how I outline it.

The people that see everything different from me and many others. The people that remember events differently than what I claim. You are from THIS reality. It wouldn't make any other sense if you can't relate or how maddening this may sound. I on the contrary am from the other reality. Reality where those quotes exists, where geographic world is different, where anatomy is different, where movies and phrases are different. In hindsight we would probably be having a similar convo if you were alternatively transported into my reality and went on about things like how you thought Mandela was still alive or what was up with the Lindbergh baby case, since the culprit was caught in your reality as was the baby found dead. Again, as I specified, the baby in my reality was never found nor was the person responsible ever discovered, it was the biggest case that continued to went unsolved in history in my world. The same I can say about Mongolia, it was never where it is now nor was it ever that big, but hey, I am from the alternative universe and having hard time defining it as it is. Same goes with Japan being misplaced and NZ being where it is. Though we will just keep running in circles there.  I am not that bored nor mad to make things up. I mean, hey I know my mind is pretty creative, but it isn't that creative to share similar creativity with other ME theorists.

I never heard of Jackalope, but I also never watched American's Funniest People so I can't reference that there. Originally when you typed it I had to look it up, which something new to me, but apparently a hoax. However, I always remember five planteers in Captain Planet. Fire, Wind, Water, Earth, and Heart.

I seen plenty of ME videos, some claiming MEs that aren't MEs for me. Some examples being US had 52 states(it always been 50 in my reality.) The traffic light difference reference which is the same in this reality as it was mine(RYG,  of course people insist of it being flipped.) Super Mario Bros, being called Super Mario Brothers(which I am on fence about.) The 'Beam me up Scotty' reference. I never watched Star Trek, so I dunno on that one, I have seen spin offs that used that quote, though the actual show I do not know. These things on my end can account for one of three things. 1) They are wrong; irony you can call it from my standpoint. 2) I simply don't remember it if it is true. Hey could happen. Or 3) They are right and there is just another reality beyond mine where such never reflected in my reality or this one.

Though on the third one I really don't want to dwell too much on. It is already mind blowing finding yourself in two realities, adding multiples in it is too much for my head to take.

If you do find anything on vanishing birthmarks, let me know. I been googling for awhile with little luck. I just find it odd something disappears after being there for many years.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 01:22:23 AM by Drake Valentine »

Online mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2017, 03:16:10 AM »
I'm afraid that convincing me that truth is subjective is going to be a very hard sell....

First off, the word 'Truth' refers to what a person believes is the case. Not necessarily what IS the case. And even then, from what I'm reading about quantum physics, it would seem that reality itself is a subjective experience built by the mind of the individual observer, not any definite state that the universe is in at any given time. (It's in all possible states at all times) The world as we know it is basically just the common consensus of of those individual subjective realities coalescing into a shared experience.

In fact, from how I've read it described and heard it described in documentaries and stuff, the entire universe and all matter in it (not just light) exists in a wave form of possibility until directly observed. Only then does the wave form collapse into one definite possibility and behave as a solid particle while all other possibilities remain just as real, but only in alternate universes.

You, the observer, define the universe that 'is' simply by observing it.

As far as modern science is able to tell, the nature of the universe is nothing like we thought it was twenty years ago, and certainly not what is taught in school. Every conceivable reality, every combination of possibilities, every moment already exists spread across an infinite number of parallel and intersecting universes. It even suggests that the conscious mind flits between these universes effortlessly and constantly. You are doing it right now as you read this post.

We call it the passage of time.

Every perceivable moment is a different universe/reality than the one that preceded it and the one that follows in the same way that it is different from the other possible realities that could have potentially existed in that exact moment. From one second to the next your mental processes change, the observable molecules making up the universe move, and while for the most part everything seems to be the same, nothing is in the exact same configuration it just was, and the configuration it is in at that moment will continue to remain even as you leave it to pass into the next.

That behavior of consciousness to move between different possible realities is what is being described by the Mandela Effect. Only instead of moving to the next logical moment in our chain of perceived events, we somehow missed our original destination and wound up in a parallel set of possible realities that we weren't necessarily moving toward...or through...however you want to picture it.

Like a cosmic 404 page not found error and getting redirected to the nearest available reality seamlessly so as to avoid desturbing that subjective experience. You wouldn't even notice it happen since such movement through possible realities is such a natural part of conscious existence. Most things are the same, but not everything. And if we are consciously aware of it being different, then even little things can be jarring....imagine logging on to E one day and the standard font for all posts is comic sans. It wouldn't stop E from being the place it is, but would make you stop and go 'something is wrong here' and possibly even crave for it to be the way you remember it instead. That's how it is for people experiencing the ME. Little things that trigger that uncanny 'not quite right' feeling.

And because all possibilities exist at once, there is nothing stopping your conscious mind from navigating the infinite web of time and possibility to arrive at this reality naturally while my own was exploring an entirely different branch of possibility before arriving here in this one for whatever reason. You still exist in both, just as I already existed in this one, but we can only consciously perceive one reality at a time.

The reality you perceive only exists the way it does because you perceive it to. Someone else can perceive the same set of circumstances or events in an entirely different way, and their version would be just as valid and 'true' as yours, even if completely opposed. You can't get much more subjective than that.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 05:06:10 AM by mannik »

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2017, 09:16:26 AM »
Well, I do agree that what you've said sounds incredibly subjective, however, I remain unconvinced that it is accurate. I am, on the other hand, very interested to find out what your source material is for those extraordinary claims.

I am aware of the multiverse hypothesis, but this has not even remotely been proven to be the case. Mere assertion does not make it a fact. I am also aware of the concept that there are some forms of matter, light I believe, that exist as particles until observed. That, however, does not translate to all forms of matter as far as I know. My own research into the subject has never revealed an inclusion of any other form of matter and I would be immensely interested to see where it is cited that anything else reacts the same way?

As for the assertions on truth and reality, there is just as little room for debate.

Truth
truth
[trooth]

noun
1.
the true or actual state of a matter:
He tried to find out the truth.
2.
conformity with fact or reality; verity:
the truth of a statement.

Reality

reality
[ree-al-i-tee]

noun
1.
the state or quality of being real.
2.
resemblance to what is real.
3.
a real thing or fact.
4.
real things, facts, or events taken as a whole; state of affairs:
the reality of the business world; vacationing to escape reality.
5.
Philosophy.

    something that exists independently of ideas concerning it.
    something that exists independently of all other things and from which all other things derive.

6.
something that is real.
7.
something that constitutes a real or actual thing, as distinguished from something that is merely apparent.

These are not subjective words. In fact, they're specifically used to differentiate the objective from the subjective - that is their primary use. By their very nature, they cannot be subjective. It is impossible. Truth, Reality, Fact, etc. I understand using the shorthand of Reality when referring to multiple dimensions as per the multiverse hypothesis, but I reject using it myself and for the sake of clarity I would put forward the request to use "dimension" or "universe", since those reflect the nature of the discussion more accurately, but all I can do at that point is make the request.

All of that aside, nowhere I can find has anything resembling scientific, peer-reviewed study confirmed a single additional dimension, far less a multitude or the ability of anyone or anything to travel between them. I would very much be interested in seeing what supporting evidence you have for the subject. Unfortunately, the burden of proof for a claim such as that lies with the one making the initial claim.

Therefore.

First off, the word 'Truth' refers to what a person believes is the case.

Incorrect, as outlined above.

In fact, from how I've read it described and heard it described in documentaries and stuff, the entire universe and all matter in it (not just light) exists in a wave form of possibility until directly observed.

Forgive the turn of phrase, but... Citation, or it didn't happen.

As far as modern science is able to tell, the nature of the universe is nothing like we thought it was twenty years ago, and certainly not what is taught in school.

Same as above, I will need citation to show that "modern science" behaves in any particular way that is different from twenty years past. Keep in mind that there is a difference between hypothesis and theory and that only one of these things can be taken as definitive.

Unfortunately, the rest of your claims are based off of these concepts to begin with, so I'm afraid that my initial statement of a subjective truth being a hard sell does, by all evidence, remain true. I simply do not accept assertions as facts, I'm afraid.






As to Drake, I think my point to you got a little lost in the refuting of individual claims. My point wasn't the Jackalope, the Planeteers, or anything else specifically unto itself that was mentioned in your post. Instead, my point was that all alleged examples of the Mandela Effect can be explained by simpler, less outlandish means. There is an explanation for all of it that doesn't require that some people are special interdimensional travelers possessed of any particular enlightenment above the rest of us and incapable of being incorrect. To me, the Mandela Effect seems a fantastical claim that belongs in terrible sci-fi with more potential than achieved, instead of anything based in logical, provable fact. As far as I have seen (and I have spent most of the last year or so interested in the concept, I have not just dismissed it out of hand, I have spent countless hours poring over the material I have found but the fact that it largely seems to be Reddit and YouTube that house the "evidence", it's not overwhelmingly encouraging) there is little to no evidence that cannot be explained via natural means.

Occam's Razor tells us that if there is already a natural explanation, literally creating multiple dimensions is unnecessary and unlikely to provide the answers we need. Unless it is peer-reviewed, it is merely a fascinating fiction.

I will not say the Mandela Effect definitively does not exist. However, I will not say that an omnipotent deity does not exist, either. This does not mean that I believe in these things. They are (however unlikely) a possibility.



And please, for the love of Tyson, can we all remember that just because someone puts something in a YouTube video, does not make it true? YouTube videos are a terrible source of definitive evidence that is so easily manipulated. A YouTube video does not equate to evidence. It just doesn't.

Offline Cookie

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #71 on: August 08, 2017, 11:47:18 AM »
Memory absolutely can and does make this sort of thing up all the time.  I minored in psychology and memory is constantly being rewritten -- it isn't at all the simple recording device people tend to think of it as.  Every time a memory is recalled, it's altered.  This can and has been proven. 

Yeah the research into the fallibility and manipulation of memory is fascinating, especially from Elizabeth Loftus. They can talk people into false memories, in these studies, like completely  false original memories, not even changing existing ones.  I'm a psych grad too, there's just tons of great research into this. I did post grad training as a therapist and we were actually trained to avoid unwittingly inducing false memories, because it's been such a problem.

You're right, there's good evidence  that every time a memory is recalled it's altered, which is useful in psychotherapy actually, it's how we can help people with things like PSTD.

It's a problem with eyewitness testimony too, which is worrying. I was in a car accident and I remembered completely the accident victim hitting my side of the car, like a clear picture in my mind. Yet when I was interviewed by the police it turned out my recollection contradicted the direct physical evidence.

Surprised this topic isn't more widely known or discussed really.

Online mannikTopic starter

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #72 on: August 08, 2017, 02:40:46 PM »
I make those claims based on a number of theories and interpretations I've heard of from several different sources, some of which I will have to search for again. Since my brother showed me some of those videos on his phone, I don't have a direct link to them at this moment, but once I find them I will post them. (having trouble finding one with a particularly nice quote from Neil Degrasse Tyson in which he describes the universe behind him as 'a murky soup of possibility until he turns around to observe where things actually are')

Anyway, the concept of the observer collapsing the wave function I mentioned was described in the 'Copenhagen interpretation' (which is widely accepted and extensively peer reviewed) of the double slit experiment as an attempt to describe the weird behavior of particles that experiment produces. Just look up the double slit experiment, it's pretty cool and there's lots of stuff about it that is very easy to find.

The experiment itself is quite simple. You have a lazer firing photons, or an electron cannon, or even something that launches larger particles aimed at a barrier that has two slits cut in it, and behind that barrier is a screen that will record the points of impact of the photons, electrons, or whatever else you fire at it.

There are two distinctly different patterns that can potentially emerge from this experiment. One, is an interference pattern of multiple bands created by waves passing through both slits at the same time, and the other is simply two narrow bands that lie behind the slits that can only be made if the particles pass through only one slit or the other before striking the screen.

When fired one at a time, the particles only hit one spot on the screen each time, but as more and more are fired, the collection of spots becomes an interference pattern expected of wave form behavior. However, if you are to set up a secondary observation or measurement at the slits itself, if you watch which one the particle passes through specifically, then the pattern on the screen becomes the double band instead because the wave of possibility no longer includes the potential of passing through the other slit. This behavior is the same regardless of what is fired through the slits. Photons produce a double band when observed passing through one slit or the other, just as larger solid particles produce the interference pattern when they are not directly observed passing through the slits at all.

All matter behaves as both wave and particle depending on when and how it is observed.

The many worlds interpretation also correlates to that experiment, only it states that the wave form doesn't collapse in the normal sense. That every possibility remains and plays out in another universe, the only difference being that this is the universe you are actively observing. Each time you fire a single particle at the slits, the whole interference pattern is created, just spread across multiple universes, where in each only a single dot appears on the screen in different positions. Each time you fire, new universes are created to account for those possibilities, but you ultimately get to observe only one.

I don't believe the two interpretations are mutually exclusive. One explains the observed universe, and how conscious awareness of a given state can affect the over all system and how future events unfold. While the other accounts for the other possibilities very neatly and efficiently mathematically.

When fired, the particle has every possible interaction ahead of it. But if you watch it go through the barrier, simply knowing the particle went through the left slit limits the possible interactions that particle can have with the screen from that point forward through time up until it collides with the screen, at which point it is observed again as one of many possible hit locations directly behind the slit it was known to pass through.

Each possibility is just as definite and real each time the device is fired. But limited by your subjective experience of where the particle is at a particular point in time.

Offline Oniya

Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #73 on: August 08, 2017, 02:57:31 PM »
The problem is that you are applying quantum mechanics at distinctly non-quantum scales.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Mendella effect
« Reply #74 on: August 08, 2017, 03:15:22 PM »
There are also a lot of weird creatures now that I don't remember existing. Now, I do know people make random animal discoveries over time, but some of them just seem really out of the world.

http://www.boredpanda.com/strange-animals/
http://www.boredpanda.com/unusual-animals/

Star face molerats, panda ants, penis snakes? Vampire like deer? Come on, really? Along with other weird things.

Also to further tribute to this, I remember clearly the tazmanian(sp) devil being extinct in my reality. That was why the Loony Toons based a character off of him, but now I see them. I also remember buffalo being hunted to extinction, but apparently they are out in this world.

I remember the American Bald Eagle being endangered, but now it is Least Concern. (That is a real surprising population climb)
I remember pandas being endangered but now they fell down one with population rise? (Of course, that could be a shift in itself, maybe they repopulated enough, but in my reality I recall their population thinning instead of growing.)

And I still want to know where the Great Wall of India poof out of this world from. 

https://unsolvedmysteriesindia.blogspot.com/2015/01/great-wall-of-india-kumbhalgarh-fort.html

I see a lot of 'recent' discovers of it. You would of imagine that it would of been found a lot sooner with our age of technology, but backtracking I think the oldest article on it I found was 2014? 2015? I dunno, I am seeing all sorts of strange dates posted, most of them leaning to 2017 involving it, some saying it was found six months ago in 2017. Others that left many people baffle by its existence, which has left it known as a 'mystery.'

Ain't no mystery cause we merged in parallel realities.