Trump

[Callie Del Noire]

We cant afford a pay raise to federal workers, but give me five billion for my wall.

Yeah.. totes makes sense.

New law  any shutdown, all congressional staff furloughed and 3/4s of the Presidents staff, and any elected official or cabinet member’s pay is unpaid till resolving the shutdown

[elone]

I like that idea. No pay for congress, no pay for executive branch.  When the shutdown is over, no back pay for any of them either. Keep it up long enough and we can balance the budget. Most of them have big bucks and don'e need it anyway.  We have been shutdown for a while now, I see no difference in my life.

I am sure there are those who hurt though. Next time don't vote for Trump.

[Sara Nilsson]

Good luck getting that passed though. Ocasio-Cortez has suggested it but I have no faith that she will be able to get that passed.

[Callie Del Noire]

Good luck getting that passed though. Ocasio-Cortez has suggested it but I have no faith that she will be able to get that passed.

I find it Ironic, with a capital letter, that the ONE member of congress who needs the pay.. is willing to sacrifice it. She's going to be the outsider for her time there and I can be nearly 100% sure she will NOT get anything in the way of committees or positions where she can be visible.

[Lustful Bride]

You know what...I agree. If he wants the Wall so badly then he should pay for it, not the government.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-lawmaker-suggests-trump-use-some-of-his-own-money-to-help-pay-for-border-wall/ar-BBREVHQ?ocid=spartanntp

[gaggedLouise]

You know what...I agree. If he wants the Wall so badly then he should pay for it, not the government.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-lawmaker-suggests-trump-use-some-of-his-own-money-to-help-pay-for-border-wall/ar-BBREVHQ?ocid=spartanntp

I agree too. Trump has been more determined than anyone else that there needs to be a proper wall along thousands of miles of border (if he were fully serious, he would also ask for minefields and the kind of obstructive gadgets that used to grace the border between East and West Germany, or the USSR and Finland, but I guess he doesn't want it to look too much like the Iron Curtain). It's only right that he should personally bankroll his own project.

[Yvellakitsune]

You know what...I agree. If he wants the Wall so badly then he should pay for it, not the government.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-lawmaker-suggests-trump-use-some-of-his-own-money-to-help-pay-for-border-wall/ar-BBREVHQ?ocid=spartanntp

Trump has actually not been taking pay this whole time.  https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1341/take-no-salary/

By law he has to accept the pay because of Alexander Hamilton, but he then donates it. 

Congress on the other hand should not be getting paid through this also.  There is fault on both sides.  Both sides have made counter offers, and both sides have rejected them.  I know it’s political maneuvering and Trump started it, but both parties are continuing it. 

As for federal pay raises, the federal employees I worked with I always felt we’re overpaid as it was, but that’s just my personal experience with mostly GS 9s and above.  In the last shutdown, they even got paid double when it was over and done and then joked about hoping for a second shutdown over the summer.  Again, that’s from personal experience with GS 9s and above.  As for below GS9, my encounters with USCIS, Social Security, and the IRS... so... not good experiences.

[RedPhoenix]

Now see if we had more than two parties we could vote out the two that cause this sort of gridlock thus motivating people to actually get things done and function as a government instead of screw over the people and act like martyrs about it. Every time the government shuts down it's just a bunch of finger pointing and I don't buy any of it.

[Oniya]

One problem that occurs is when your position is deemed 'essential' and you're working without pay.  I've read that TSA employees (you know, the ones that are supposed to be protecting us from terrorists on airplanes) are deemed 'essential' - and many are living paycheck to paycheck.  Yeah, that back-pay at the end is supposed to be compensation, but your heating, electric, and local fuel station aren't going to take IOU's.  And if you can't afford the gas in your car to get to the airport that you're supposed to be protecting...  Well, now that job and the back-pay are in danger.

[TheGlyphstone]

Now see if we had more than two parties we could vote out the two that cause this sort of gridlock thus motivating people to actually get things done and function as a government instead of screw over the people and act like martyrs about it. Every time the government shuts down it's just a bunch of finger pointing and I don't buy any of it.

I sometimes wonder this, then second guess myself. Parliamentary governments like Britain have more than two parties in theory, but for the most part they still seem to coalesce into loose coalitions of allied interests that make up the sitting government/majority and the opposition/minority. When you take a close look at the two major American political parties, they're just as much coalitions of interests - they've simply been allied so long that the amalgamation is more or less permanent. Even if, say, the evangelicals and the isolationists split into two formal parties, they'd still have a commonality of interest that would lead them to trade voting support in the same way parliamentary parties do.

[Yvellakitsune]

One problem that occurs is when your position is deemed 'essential' and you're working without pay.  I've read that TSA employees (you know, the ones that are supposed to be protecting us from terrorists on airplanes) are deemed 'essential' - and many are living paycheck to paycheck.  Yeah, that back-pay at the end is supposed to be compensation, but your heating, electric, and local fuel station aren't going to take IOU's.  And if you can't afford the gas in your car to get to the airport that you're supposed to be protecting...  Well, now that job and the back-pay are in danger.

What I have seen during several shutdown while in the military and for those federal employeesI worked with... banks, utilities, etc... will work with you on it.  My bank sent an email that if we were affected by the shutdown and had direct deposit to call them and they had options, to include zero interest payroll advances.  Landlords I dealt with were also flexible.  They don’t want to lose their business either if they play hard on the issue. 

Now see if we had more than two parties we could vote out the two that cause this sort of gridlock thus motivating people to actually get things done and function as a government instead of screw over the people and act like martyrs about it. Every time the government shuts down it's just a bunch of finger pointing and I don't buy any of it.

On other parties, the big issue is our voting is yea or nay.  So everything eventually breaks down into two camps like TheGlyphstone was saying.  With how our government works, with three parties or more, then only 33% of people could win an election, or 25% with four.  Another issue for third parties in the USA is that the third parties always seem to come from the fringes of the two parties we have.  People who say they want third party generally want something centrist, but the options go extreme instead leaving the Democrats and Republicans as the center. 

[TheGlyphstone]

The US's only real third parties of any note are the Greens and the Libertarians. Greens are indeed fringe left. The Libertarian party is more of an odd duck because their core principles don't really align with either left or right so much as the minimalist possible government period. This does lead to most self-described Libertarians voting GOP since their titular party is essentially powerless and the Republicans are a more palatable ally on the surface since they still claim to be a party of small government.

[Ironwolf85]

Trump has actually not been taking pay this whole time.  https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1341/take-no-salary/

By law he has to accept the pay because of Alexander Hamilton, but he then donates it. 

Congress on the other hand should not be getting paid through this also.  There is fault on both sides.  Both sides have made counter offers, and both sides have rejected them.  I know it’s political maneuvering and Trump started it, but both parties are continuing it. 

As for federal pay raises, the federal employees I worked with I always felt we’re overpaid as it was, but that’s just my personal experience with mostly GS 9s and above.  In the last shutdown, they even got paid double when it was over and done and then joked about hoping for a second shutdown over the summer.  Again, that’s from personal experience with GS 9s and above.  As for below GS9, my encounters with USCIS, Social Security, and the IRS... so... not good experiences.

Given the spending bill passed 100/0 in the senate, had likewise support in the house, then only hit a stall after trump started screeching about da whall where republicans then filibustered the spending bill they wrote themselves.
I really don't see how this is on democrats, other than them sitting there and letting trump screech loudly, and blame them. After saying if the government shut down it was his own fault.

All I can think of is the whole vader and lando thing.
"I have altered the deal, pray I do not alter it further"
Except in this case lando says "no" and vader begins killing storm troopers, all while shouting at lando to stop killing storm troopers.

[Missy]

Given the spending bill passed 100/0 in the senate, had likewise support in the house, then only hit a stall after trump started screeching about da whall where republicans then filibustered the spending bill they wrote themselves.
I really don't see how this is on democrats, other than them sitting there and letting trump screech loudly, and blame them. After saying if the government shut down it was his own fault.

All I can think of is the whole vader and lando thing.
"I have altered the deal, pray I do not alter it further"
Except in this case lando says "no" and vader begins killing storm troopers, all while shouting at lando to stop killing storm troopers.

Oddly amusing.

While you are on the nose with it, the simple fact remains Trump doesn't need the truth he just needs people to accept his narrative. I'm inclined to quote Col. Jack O'Niel "Some braindead sycophant left my friend out here to die", indeed I wouldn't be surprised if Trump secretly thought he was a god. Chief among Trumps hardcore base are folks who have already accepted his narratives and who have no interest in exploring the issues with depth or complexity reflective of reality. Regardless we've already had a blue wave, the reds best victories were where they were expected to win anyway, it would have been weird if they had lost those places, the reps held what they had a natural advantage for and little else; Trump pursues a strategy of further alienating his base to anyone who is not already hardcore, I very much doubt he'll have any kind of luck, at all, holding on the moderates in the coming election, assuming the open investigations don't burn him first. 2020 is the dems to lose.

[Various]

I find it Ironic, with a capital letter, that the ONE member of congress who needs the pay.. is willing to sacrifice it. She's going to be the outsider for her time there and I can be nearly 100% sure she will NOT get anything in the way of committees or positions where she can be visible.

et. al.

Of note, the 27th amendment which says that Congressional pay raises go into effect for the NEXT Congress so that the voters can kick the bums out if they disagree with them giving themselves a raise. It required an amendment because those it applies to have a vested interest not to allow it or to repeal it. The same would probably required for anything that'd mean Congress doesn't get paid for X time. It would also have to be worded in such a way that the pay would stop in a partial shutdown where the legislative side is already funded.

[gaggedLouise]

Trump at his bizarre live stand-up best, surrounded by a cabinet where most of the grown-ups have already left or been fired:

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/03/politics/donald-trump-cabinet-meeting/index.html

[gaggedLouise]

...and the fallout from that meeting on twitter:

https://twitter.com/search?q=Trump+bizarre+cabinet+meeting



Incidentally, Mitt Romney wrote a well-publicized op-ed piece in Washinton Post the other day where he, quite rightly, lambasted Trump for pulling down the standards of decency and responsibility that are linked to the presidency, and for being too divisive - but it turns out his comments were mostly about Trump as a person. He then went on CNN and said he supported the idea of a Mexico Wall, and it being necessary. Talk about flip-flopping! 

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/mitt-romney-vs-trump-773995/

Romney's op-ed: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/mitt-romney-the-president-shapes-the-public-character-of-the-nation-trumps-character-falls-short/2019/01/01/37a3c8c2-0d1a-11e9-8938-5898adc28fa2_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f1f7ae0ae7da


Romney on CNN: https://twitter.com/axios/status/1080585511071350786

[Missy]

Romney wants to run in 2020, he's fine with nationalism to it seems.

[Blythe]

Romney wants to run in 2020, he's fine with nationalism to it seems.

Romney's said he isn't going to run--and truthfully, he shouldn't. Literally for the same reasons Hillary Clinton shouldn't for the Democrats--tried and failed too many times, just isn't a good enough candidate to draw in sufficient appeal in the party's base to win.

[gaggedLouise]

Romney wants to run in 2020, he's fine with nationalism to it seems.

It would be hard for any republican candidate who wants the nomination in 2020 not to pull the immigration and race cards and play them hard, wherher Trump is still in the White House by then or not - is that the implication?

[Callie Del Noire]

It would be hard for any republican candidate who wants the nomination in 2020 not to pull the immigration and race cards and play them hard, wherher Trump is still in the White House by then or not - is that the implication?

which is why I'm not sure I'll even bother in the primaries this time around. Lets be honest.. every cycle the party slings further and further right nationally. I'm still considering leaving the party.. have been for months.

Honestly I think most days I am fooling my self that either party understands the words bi-partisan and compromise.

[gaggedLouise]

which is why I'm not sure I'll even bother in the primaries this time around. Lets be honest.. every cycle the party slings further and further right nationally. I'm still considering leaving the party.. have been for months.

Honestly I think most days I am fooling my self that either party understands the words bi-partisan and compromise.

Yes, I get your point. Seen from Europe, it's very striking that for all their flaws, the Dems as a party moved at least their talk, their way of adressing political issues and bringing new groups into the field, ahead one generation in the Obama years and after, while the Reps are just lurching down and right, into a more and more crude "white vote" and neo-con agenda. Depressing.

[Ironwolf85]

which is why I'm not sure I'll even bother in the primaries this time around. Lets be honest.. every cycle the party slings further and further right nationally. I'm still considering leaving the party.. have been for months.

Honestly I think most days I am fooling my self that either party understands the words bi-partisan and compromise.

I suggest getting involved on a more local level, and go with principals over party.

[Callie Del Noire]

I suggest getting involved on a more local level, and go with principals over party.

Which is what I’ve done but the Trump crowd pretty much rules the party locally in north Florida. Pointing out things like Reagan raised some taxes or that no one is doing anything because of the fact the base on either side is resistant to compromise gets me called RINO and ignored. 

[Oniya]

I think what Ironwolf is suggesting is to ignore completely whether a local candidate has a (D) or an (R).  There have been a few candidates around here whose take is 'I don't care if you're a Dem or a Rep - I want to hear from you, because I want you to be my constituent.  And to do that, I need to know what issues we can come together on.'