Trump

[gaggedLouise]

It's official (and many of you have already heard it): Trump told Pelosi and Schumer that if they didn't bend to his will, the shutdown could last "for months or even years". Confirmed by the Donald himself. 

Okay, it might not be realistic to picture a shutdown lasting all through 2019, something would ultimately happen that forced him to give in, on Wall Street or on Capitol Hill. He's bragging in his usual style. Still, this is a horrible abuse of power by one of the most power-invested men on the planet - and if the game ends with Congress giving in and handing him the dough under some pretext, what guarantee is there that he won't run this stunt again and again? Trump is clearly trying not just to get the Wall started, but also to demonstrate to everybody, at a point when his junta inner circle is more beleaguered than ever before, and when he has lost his majority in the House, that "never mind, I'm still the one ruling the US, I can force those Democrats to their knees and make them follow my designs, I'm the STRONGER and the people are with me!"

Which has nothing at all to do with democracy.

[Callie Del Noire]

Considering one of the affected groups is the folks that process TAX REFUNDS I imagine that won’t go over welll

[gaggedLouise]

Considering one of the affected groups is the folks that process TAX REFUNDS I imagine that won’t go over welll

Trump can count hinmself lucky that the Federal Reserve isn't technically part of the US state. Imagine if the shutdown had forced them to work without wages, or to send some people home on unpaid leave? :)

[SweetSerenade]

Tax refunds will end up delayed as they will be under staffed. If the shut down can't be amended before things start up majorly, this could seriously impact a lot of people.

Myself included.

People who claim earned income tax credit, and child tax credit, already have to wait till mid February before their fillings are even looked at and a refund can be sent.

A lot of families rely on the refund they get to pay bills handle loans, get housing. This shut down is hitting hard on a lot of people, and I'm honestly scared about being able to move at the time I'm supposed to. We were relying on our refund to make it where we could get into better housing. We have no other way to gather the first and deposit while also paying the ridiculously climbing bill of the complex we are currently in.

If the shut down doesn't end the tax refund processing will be delayed. This is a big deal and it's dangerous for a lot of people. Not just the government employees that are going without pay.

The tantrum needs to end, this is just ridiculous.

[gaggedLouise]

*nods*

Someone pointed out to Trump that many of those who are being left without a paycheck, whether they will be working or forced on unpaid leave, have no real margins and *must* have their wages to be able to pay their rent, the mortgages on their homes, insurances and school fees etc - not to mention food and heating. Trump answered in his nonchalant style, like. "Yeah I know, but landlords should go easy on them and give these people credit in those cases". That's a trash statement and carries no weight whatsoever, unless Trump is willing to personally offer some kind of security loan to the folks affected. 

Plus, as a real estate tycoon Trump has never made himself known for showing that kind of concern with tenants who are hard up, out of work or sick.

[Sara Nilsson]

While many landlords and utility companies are willing to help out, usually harder to find supermarkets that do. But honestly, do people care? I am getting the impression that a lot of americans just go "eh its government workers they have it so good anyway"

[Lustful Bride]

I have seen it half and half. Some don't care or are happy because they hate the government and feel everyone in it is bad while others feel bad and might want to help.

[Callie Del Noire]

While many landlords and utility companies are willing to help out, usually harder to find supermarkets that do. But honestly, do people care? I am getting the impression that a lot of americans just go "eh its government workers they have it so good anyway"

No but I see a lot of hard core Trump Maga-ers being happy till it affects them personally

[SweetSerenade]

No but I see a lot of hard core Trump Maga-ers being happy till it affects them personally

There is an poem that I was suddenly reminded of because of your post - they won't care till it's them being effected.


First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

by Martin Niemöller

[RedPhoenix]

I suggest getting involved on a more local level, and go with principals over party.

It's amazing what you can do at the local level, and the impact it can have nationally. I am speaking from experience here. It's very encouraging.

[Ironwolf85]

I think what Ironwolf is suggesting is to ignore completely whether a local candidate has a (D) or an (R).  There have been a few candidates around here whose take is 'I don't care if you're a Dem or a Rep - I want to hear from you, because I want you to be my constituent.  And to do that, I need to know what issues we can come together on.'

Well that and any legitimacy of moral fiber the party had it threw out the window in 2008 and proceeded to burn itself alive to stop obama from giving us homoerotic space communism.
There's a reason that it's been dying a demographic death for a decade.

[gaggedLouise]

Trump is now toying with the idea of declaring a state of emergency, pointing to "danger to the national security", and then granting himself the money to build his damn wall. If he did take that step, could he let the Gov Shutdown continue in order to try to cast the Dems as the villains and continue a useful sideshow?

[Oniya]

homoerotic space communism.

Come on - I read those fanfics when they still called them Kirk/Spock.  We hadn't even heard of Obama.  (Sometimes, the joke has to be made.)

[Ironwolf85]

 
nope... declaring a state of emergency will only get him impeached.
Also cause everything that's slowing down to instantly stop, the economy drops off a cliff, and he can't raise funds. So then NOBODY gets paid.

So imagine what happens when kentucky doesn't get their food stamps? (80% of that state is on them, and they are deeply red.) or when the stock market drops like it's got anvils tied to it?

That and he's not well liked in military circles especially after his treatment of kelly and mattis, bungling every military engagement he touches... the last two years are the first years where the US military hasn't hit it's recruitment goals since the early 90's, and a lot of guys aren't re-enlisting to fight with him in charge. So there's not going to be a junta/coup.

or to put this in an edgy internet way.
"I did not get my way! deploy the galactic millita and declare martial law!"
"what will we pay them with?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0sUMe1Z8-0

[gaggedLouise]

That and he's not well liked in military circles especially after his treatment of kelly and mattis, bungling every military engagement he touches... the last two years are the first years where the US military hasn't hit it's recruitment goals since the early 90's, and a lot of guys aren't re-enlisting to fight with him in charge. So there's not going to be a junta/coup.

or to put this in an edgy internet way.
"I did not get my way! deploy the galactic millita and declare martial law!"
"what will we pay them with?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0sUMe1Z8-0

So a military coup would be the fastest way to depose Trump and get him out of Mar-A-Lago, hands cuffed behind his back and with no access to his iphone...?

[Ironwolf85]

fast... probably.
Long term damage would be massive though.

I hope it's not uncouth to link another video.

vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

In a short way, so as not to get caught up on philosophy. Donald is crap at controlling his keys to power, america is a democratic state. Requiring many "keys" to rule properly.
Donald isn't just a problematic person with crap morals, he's also terrible at managing the power structure and keeping his keys. He hasn't had to do this before, in his company the power structure is simple and obedient to he who holds the checkbook. He maybe needed to maintain a working relationship with the guys investing his money for him and managing his portfolio.

He's gone from an autocratic structure with soft pillowy cushions and no real threat, to a democratic structure with a shit ton of rivals and threats around every corner.

[gaggedLouise]

fast... probably.
Long term damage would be massive though.

I hope it's not uncouth to link another video.

vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

In a short way, so as not to get caught up on philosophy. Donald is crap at controlling his keys to power, america is a democratic state. Requiring many "keys" to rule properly.
Donald isn't just a problematic person with crap morals, he's also terrible at managing the power structure and keeping his keys. He hasn't had to do this before, in his company the power structure is simple and obedient to he who holds the checkbook. He maybe needed to maintain a working relationship with the guys investing his money for him and managing his portfolio.

He's gone from an autocratic structure with soft pillowy cushions and no real threat, to a democratic structure with a shit ton of rivals and threats around every corner.

yes, I agree. It's been striking all along that he sees himself as the CEO of America, Inc. A CEO is not bound by lots of checks and balances, or by the need to present his plans in a way that honours laws, old conventions or the need to respect other state organs, and nor does he have to make the customer base happy. His main duty is to the board and to those who selected him as CEO. A CEO, as long as he has a financially solid company, can pretty much rule by decree, or by making his wishes known to everyone, and he can fire people at will. Exactly the kind of governing that Trump is used to. He has never held any elected office before he became president, or even any kind of state office. It was an unknown world to him.

[Ironwolf85]

That's what's getting him into trouble of his own making I think.
Rather than backing off and asking "is this the right way to approach this problem?" or "maybe i need to ask some questions of my advisors..." he keeps doubling down, and getting pissed when it backfires or otherwise goes off the rails. Promptly blames somebody. Then moves on and abandons the project/issue he was working on.

[LostInTheMist]

I was worried that in his speech today, he was going to declare a state of emergency to build the wall, and use the same state of emergency to declare martial law, dissolve the Senate and the House, suspend the Judiciary, and essentially make himself President-for-Life.

I have a major in politics, and I know there's no way he could get away with this. But the lunatic is just crazy enough to try it. (And I'm not sure the Republican party has enough of a spine to stand up to him any more.)

[gaggedLouise]

I was worried that in his speech today, he was going to declare a state of emergency to build the wall, and use the same state of emergency to declare martial law, dissolve the Senate and the House, suspend the Judiciary, and essentially make himself President-for-Life.

I have a major in politics, and I know there's no way he could get away with this. But the lunatic is just crazy enough to try it. (And I'm not sure the Republican party has enough of a spine to stand up to him any more.)

I bet he has toyed with the idea of actually going down that road, declaring martial law, dissolving Congress and making himself dictator (not to say, Führer). He understands that it's not a viable route, but I am sure he is intrigued by the idea...

[Lilias]

I bet he has toyed with the idea of actually going down that road, declaring martial law, dissolving Congress and making himself dictator (not to say, Führer). He understands that it's not a viable route, but I am sure he is intrigued by the idea...

Every day that passes with the military unpaid makes it more likely that such a stunt would backfire spectacularly.

[Avis habilis]

Every day that passes with the military unpaid makes it more likely that such a stunt would backfire spectacularly.

I suspect that's why he spends so much time cozying up to Nazis & Klansmen: they'll provide a volunteer force of armed bully boys if he needs enforcement when he refuses to vacate the premises should he lose in 2020. No reason to think they wouldn't back him in this case too.

[Regina Minx]

Every day that passes with the military unpaid makes it more likely that such a stunt would backfire spectacularly.

The military is fully paid during government shutdowns with the exception of the Coast Guard.

[Lustful Bride]

I don't even know where to begin with this.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/president-trump-says-hes-cutting-off-fema-money-for-california-fires/ar-BBS15Z2?ocid=spartandhp

[gaggedLouise]

Just saw Trump telling journalists, in his ususal cocky style, that it's easier to negotiate with China than with "Chuck and Nancy", and moreover, that the Chinese behave in a more honest way (towards the US).