Trump

[Deamonbane]

Is Bernie Sanders not a viable candidate?

[Tolvo]

He is very old. As well will the DNC actually support him?

[gaggedLouise]

Is Bernie Sanders not a viable candidate?

I move for Noam Chomsky (ninety years old next week, and one of the most legendary old-school American radicals) to be nominated! :)

[Tolvo]

Don't forget Slavoj Žižek, after all he is the heir to Marx's teachings. And he only says some horrible things but not 100% horrible things. So already he has a leg up on a lot of politicians once they look back the whole Marx stuff. Finally Marxism will topple Trump and the Republican Party.

[Callie Del Noire]

The Democratic Party is suicidially committed to support folks like Hillary

[Hades]

There's still some small chance (...so you're telling me there's a chance) that because actual progressives had a pretty strong showing in the midterms, that the DNC will keep it's fingers out of the process this time around and either Bernie Sanders or someone of similar philosophy wins the primary instead of forcing a corporatist "I'm a pragmatic moderate" pseudo-progressive candidate onto the ticket.

But I'm honestly not going to hold my breath on that happening.  The national committee is too attached to the corporate nipple to consider anyone that isn't beholden to the ruling class.

[Skynet]

The Democratic Party is suicidially committed to support folks like Hillary

That's because the Democrats are not interested in change. Without Republican dominance they'd have nothing to fight for, and since they and MSNBC are in the same pockets as big business they can't go whole-hog and reform things like healthcare to the point that the 1% makes less money. So they act incompetent and gut genuine reformers like Sanders so they can keep going "we're a lesser evil than the conservatives so keep giving us money for our campaigns."

[gaggedLouise]

Me too.. impeachment requires bad acts IN office not before.. but during his campaign is sort of hazy grayish...but ongoing actions after the election...

Personally, I’m holding out for the state cases to do him in.

One could argue of course that Trump's collusion with Moscow during the campaign amounted to subverting the meaning of a free and fair election to the highest office, that he was in a sense betraying democracy - but the practical trouble with that line of argument is that so many politicians today tend to see it as their main job to win the next election. If winning the election is the only thing that really counts, then those engaged in the election will sometimes think that all means are allowed to achieve it, just like in love and war - and so they are not going to accept the idea that you have to stick with some ethical standard for how to win the election by fair play, or else your win won't count.

Trump probably did break campaign law both through his team's dealings with the Moscow people and through his hush money (through Cohen) to shut down Stormy Daniels and other women. That's serious enough, but no, those offences are not crimes done during his time in office. Never mind that he's perjured himself on twitter many times over discussing that stuff, he wasn't under oath and nobody expects everything you hear on twitter to be true.

Which also reminds us that if Trump had held political office before, then he would never have become president. His campaign exploited the fact that he had no real track record within politics and legislation, no earlier offices to answer for, nothing that he could really be held to account for during the campaign.

[Tolvo]

https://rewire.news/article/2018/11/29/trump-administration-secretly-meets-anti-choice-groups/

So a bunch of anti-abortion orgs had a secretive meeting at the White House, groups which have ties to terrorists who attack pro-choice people and doctors and clinics. Groups that spread false information and create false evidence. So that's great for the president who put Brett Kav on the Supreme Court.

[Regina Minx]

Me too.. impeachment requires bad acts IN office not before.. but during his campaign is sort of hazy grayish...but ongoing actions after the election...

Impeachment requires whatever the House and Senate say it requires. "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" is not a defined term in the Constitution.

[gaggedLouise]

Impeachment requires whatever the House and Senate say it requires. "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" is not a defined term in the Constitution.

But it has to have some substantial link to the duties and responsibilities of the office, doesn't it? And to the term in office. Even Bill Clinton wasn't impeached for adultery (which is not a crime in any western country anymore, except in some very special circumstances), he was impeached for perjuring himself over his adultery at some official hearing or testimony.

Though I'll admit that if he had happened to lie/perjure himself over jaywalking, nobody would have bothered to try to get him impeached. The moral outrage over adultery and lying to one's wife was a powerful factor in the campaign to have him tried in the senate,

[Tolvo]

It also does depend if they can possibly convince people what he did was a form of treason. That is something that people would lose their shit over if that became accepted regardless if there is legal grounding, considering his Russian ties and willingness to sell out America so he can personally make more money.

[gaggedLouise]

It also does depend if they can possibly convince people what he did was a form of treason. That is something that people would lose their shit over if that became accepted regardless if there is legal grounding, considering his Russian ties and willingness to sell out America so he can personally make more money.

Agree - there's never been a case quite like this before (except perhaps collusion with the Mob over elections in the old days, but that shit was never really investigated at the time, was it?). Making the case that Trump's collusion and willingness to spread scandalous rumours about Clinton in order to at once 1) win the election and 2) help Moscow gain influence, that those tactics were treasonous, would codify some new principles of what you are allowed to do in an election campaign and that you can be denied the outcome even if you legally win (which Trump did). I'm thinking that many politicians will have trouble accepting such a reasoning: they want their own pals to be able to spread dirt on the other side in future elections. Just not this particular dirt. :(

[Vekseid]

He's in open violation of the emoluments clause. That is enough on its own.

It also does depend if they can possibly convince people what he did was a form of treason. That is something that people would lose their shit over if that became accepted regardless if there is legal grounding, considering his Russian ties and willingness to sell out America so he can personally make more money.

It would require us to treat Russia's actions as an act of war, or something similarly adversarial. It's possible, but only realistically going to happen if the Republican party collapses. There are a few ways that can happen - Trump is 20+ points beneath where his approval should be given the economy. Another recession can drop his approval to single digits. Especially since he's openly fingered as being the cause of the slowdown already.

[gaggedLouise]

Oh, I forgot a third reason for Trump's people to collude with the Kremlin's people: once Hillary had been defeated at the polls, Trump wanted to be able to use some of that fake information to drum up more indignation and have her accused of some serious crimes (ironically, treason) - and as he put it, "lock her up".

[Tolvo]

Well like I mentioned and showed earlier he did retweet a Qanon Conspiracy leader posting an image of Mueller and Clinton and others behind bars for treason.

I think the economy is probably not going to be doing well given his comments on not trading with the UK if the current deal by May goes through and his adversarial stance towards Canada and Mexico while trying to make a trade deal with them while removing the protections in the deal for LGBT people. On top of his planned tariffs for China that according to him will include all products including all electronics as well as him threatening tariffs for the auto industry.

[Oniya]

He's in open violation of the emoluments clause. That is enough on its own.

That would have been my guess for what they might find out from his tax attorney.

[Tolvo]

https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Russia-rejects-Trumps-canceled-meeting-Kremlin-ready-for-contact-573200?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So Russia doesn't seem to accept the cancellation and is saying Trump should still do the meeting. With one strange headline for this article. "RUSSIA REJECTS TRUMP'S CANCELED MEETING, KREMLIN READY FOR CONTACT" This coming after he stated he wouldn't go due to Russia not yet returning the Ukrainian sailors.

[Tolvo]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/the-trump-organization-planned-to-give-vladimir-putin-the

Oh also more news. Apparently they were going to give Putin a 50 million dollar Penthouse as part of their deal about a Moscow Trump Tower.

[legomaster00156]

https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Russia-rejects-Trumps-canceled-meeting-Kremlin-ready-for-contact-573200?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So Russia doesn't seem to accept the cancellation and is saying Trump should still do the meeting. With one strange headline for this article. "RUSSIA REJECTS TRUMP'S CANCELED MEETING, KREMLIN READY FOR CONTACT" This coming after he stated he wouldn't go due to Russia not yet returning the Ukrainian sailors.

Have you ever tried skipping a business meeting with your bosses? They're not gonna let that slide. 

[Deamonbane]

Have you ever tried skipping a business meeting with your bosses? They're not gonna let that slide. 

[Tolvo]

Well to be fair Trump just announced he arrived there so we'll see if he meets with them or not.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/donald-trump-jr-reportedly-very-worried-he-might-be-the-next-to-be-indicted-in-mueller-probe/

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/419031-mueller-looking-into-ivanka-and-donald-trump-jrs-role-in-planning?rnd=1543541518&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true

So things might not go well for his kids either.

https://www.americanoversight.org/new-guidance-for-federal-employees-political-activity-goes-too-far

Also apparently guidances were just altered were just altered for federal employees to restrict their speech. Including disallowing them from talking about Resistance or Impeachment. Seemingly this is related to #Resistance and the Mueller probe and to disallow calling for Impeachment.

[gaggedLouise]

Well to be fair Trump just announced he arrived there so we'll see if he meets with them or not.

Perhaps they can meet in secret - is there a Trump Tower in Buenos Aires?

https://www.americanoversight.org/new-guidance-for-federal-employees-political-activity-goes-too-far

Also apparently guidances were just altered were just altered for federal employees to restrict their speech. Including disallowing them from talking about Resistance or Impeachment. Seemingly this is related to #Resistance and the Mueller probe and to disallow calling for Impeachment.

So they haven't found out yet who wrote the "I am a member of the in-house Resistance to Donald Trump" piece... :)

[Tolvo]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/g20-live-updates-trump-latest-russia-putin-ukraine-argentina-angela-merkel-a8660311.html

Oh so outright they announced Trump and Putin will have a meeting.

And Trump signed the Canada Mexico deal.

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/30/672150010/usmca-trump-signs-new-trade-agreement-with-mexico-and-canada

It looks like Canada got to keep in all the protections for workers that the Republicans were mad about.

[gaggedLouise]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/g20-live-updates-trump-latest-russia-putin-ukraine-argentina-angela-merkel-a8660311.html

Oh so outright they announced Trump and Putin will have a meeting.

The plot thickens...

Trump being heard under oath by the senate, this time next year (speaking in a stern voice): "I did NOT have conversations with that Russian leader in Buenos Aires" 

And Trump signed the Canada Mexico deal.

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/30/672150010/usmca-trump-signs-new-trade-agreement-with-mexico-and-canada

It looks like Canada got to keep in all the protections for workers that the Republicans were mad about.

Of course they did. Trudeau can outmaneuver Trump anytime! :)