What's in the news?

[Icelandic]

The military is strong, but by no means invincible. The sheer size of the US-Mexico border means that ranks being spread thing are plausible occurrences. If the Viet Cong can repel the US Army, and al-Qaeda can shelter bin Laden for years in spite of the CIA's best efforts, small-scale domestic sabotage is not out of the question.

The US military treats them, organized crime, and protestors gone wrong as legitimate threats; otherwise they wouldn't brief soldiers on it. Again you're downplaying the bad actions of people on the right.

I still don't know what your point is here. If you are suggesting that the asylum seekers are in significant danger from our military or third-party militias, then I would simply have to disagree. Of course that could not be proven until after this issue is resolved.

Even Fox News disagreed with the revoking of press credentials, and the man in question wasn't doing anything disruptive beyond asking legitimate questions. Vekseid and others had good responses to this.

If you're not a Trump supporter, then there's no good reason to defend his revoking of press credentials, nor does it behoove one's credibility on future topics involving the President and his supporters, thus my reason for bringing it up in the context of you brushing off questionable actions by the man.

I'm willing to criticize him when I feel it's warranted, and I have in the past. I'm not sure what my 'credibility' has to do with anything either. Do you think I am not being honest with my views?

Also, Fox News does not speak for me. I supported Acosta's press pass being removed because I believe he acted very inappropriately. That's all.

[Mechelle]

So I just saw trending Baroness Trumpington and thought to myself "Oh great did John Oliver come up with some new name for Trump everyone is spreading?"

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1050754/baroness-trumpington-dies-jean-barker-house-of-lords-tributes

I didn't know it was actually the name of a pretty cool lady who sadly has passed.

Haha, I was going to mention her, as she had the definition of a well lived life. She was a codebreaker at Bletchley in the Second World War, and then was active in politics until only last year. It might seem like an odd title to choose, but Trumpington is a village near Cambridge.

[Yvellakitsune]

And this is still clearly not domestic, and I'd not call people seeking asylum and being forcibly prevented from doing so rioters. Especially the families including children who were not trying to push through and who were across the border and were tear gassed.

For Mexico, who's law enforcement is in coordination with the US Border Patrol, this is domestic.  It is still law enforcement and not a "means of warfare."  So it's not a war crime. Maybe there needs to be clarification now that law enforcement can extend across borders though in certain areas.  Those articles were written as they were because there hasn't been a border issue before with riot agents.

The migrants do not have right to force their way across a border or a police line.  Just because they are going to apply for one process, does not give them carte blanc on every other process they have to follow.  They have already refused asylum once, so it is debatable they are actually seeking asylum and seem to be attempting to immigrate to the USA since they only want to go to the USA.  They are not being denied the asylum process as others have pointed out.  They are being denied illegal entry, which applies to everyone, not just asylum seekers.  You do not have a right to cross a country's border just because you want to.  You follow the process.  The USA and every country has a right to control its borders. 

Those waiting as they should be, will have their process.  It was the splinter group who decided to intentionally violate the law that put the others in danger.  Much like criminals in general do to the public anywhere. 

 

[Icelandic]

For Mexico, who's law enforcement is in coordination with the US Border Patrol, this is domestic.  It is still law enforcement and not a "means of warfare."  So it's not a war crime. Maybe there needs to be clarification now that law enforcement can extend across borders though in certain areas.  Those articles were written as they were because there hasn't been a border issue before with riot agents.

The migrants do not have right to force their way across a border or a police line.  Just because they are going to apply for one process, does not give them carte blanc on every other process they have to follow.  They have already refused asylum once, so it is debatable they are actually seeking asylum and seem to be attempting to immigrate to the USA since they only want to go to the USA.  They are not being denied the asylum process as others have pointed out.  They are being denied illegal entry, which applies to everyone, not just asylum seekers.  You do not have a right to cross a country's border just because you want to.  You follow the process.  The USA and every country has a right to control its borders. 

Those waiting as they should be, will have their process.  It was the splinter group who decided to intentionally violate the law that put the others in danger.  Much like criminals in general do to the public anywhere. 

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Tolvo]

It just seems like people aren't going to agree on this as we view border laws differently as well as international laws and what the term domestic means, along with things like asylum seekers.

[Yvellakitsune]

The word "domestic" is not the key phrase.  The Law of Warfare doesn't ban riot agents "domestically" or "internationally."  It bans them as a "means of warfare."  The reports are phrasing it "domestic" because an international issue with riot agents hasn't happened until yesterday.  That article about Ferguson, Missouri was answering the question "if its banned for war, how is it legal domestically?"  So the reporter answered it with the word "domestic."  The Vox article was written in the context that riot agents have only been used domestically prior to this incident.  But domestic versus internationally is not the basis of how the restriction is written.  If "international use" is banned, it would be illegal for a US plane to crop dust a Canadian farm.  The key wording is "means of warfare."   

As for the word "asylum." That is my question. Is it still asylum if they refused asylum?  Is it still asylum if they only want to go to one specific country?  Is it about escaping persecution, or is it about immigrating to a specific country?  That is what will be decided at their asylum processing.

US asylum requests have risen 1700% in the past decade. 

As we’ve noted before, there’s been a nearly 1,700 percent increase in U.S. asylum claims over the last 10 years. What’s fueling the increase is growing instability, gang violence and worsening economic conditions in Central America’s "Northern Triangle" countries of El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras.

Politifact https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jun/26/wolf-blitzer/majority-undocumented-immigrants-show-court-data-s/

I don't believe that increase is really from "persecution".  I think it has more to do with exploiting a poorly written policy combined with even worse interpretation of that policy.  Crime, gang violence, and economic conditions are not.  From USCIS, "Refugee status or asylum may be granted to people who have been persecuted or fear they will be persecuted on account of race, religion, nationality, and/or membership in a particular social group or political opinion." Crime and economic conditions are not any of that definition.  So our legal definition needs to change, or the majority of these people are not refugees by US law.

[Icelandic]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/india-urged-abandon-plans-recover-body-american-074047602.html

Indian authorities might go to sentinel island to recover the body.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pauline-hanson-praises-remote-tribe-strict-immigration-policy-044033165.html


Also Pauline Hanson is being ultra-sassy about it.

[RedRose]

People really shouldn't go where it's not allowed. Those islands… Even Dark Tourism didn't go there, there must be a reason.

About tear gas, I wouldn't be surprised some places banned it. France bans pepper spray for civilians.

Magical. I couldn't stop laughing. If you read French, watch this (obviously I don't agree with the comparison though I don't like Macron) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82w6rSTP9XI

absolutely dumb also, but this is going around. I don't know if it's going to be deleted off FB... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dnw7CHJXgAAyR9m.jpg

[Tolvo]

https://www.perthnow.com.au/business/agriculture/big-knickers-a-standout-on-myalup-farm-ng-b881032899z

Look I know international news is important but look at the size of this steer!

[Icelandic]

People really shouldn't go where it's not allowed. Those islands… Even Dark Tourism didn't go there, there must be a reason.

"On the next episode of Dark Tourist: I get eaten."

Also have you ever watched that movie? Der Untergang? It's actually REALLY good.

[Icelandic]

Also that cow is an absolute unit

[gaggedLouise]

People really shouldn't go where it's not allowed. Those islands… Even Dark Tourism didn't go there, there must be a reason.

About tear gas, I wouldn't be surprised some places banned it. France bans pepper spray for civilians.

Magical. I couldn't stop laughing. If you read French, watch this (obviously I don't agree with the comparison though I don't like Macron) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82w6rSTP9XI

absolutely dumb also, but this is going around. I don't know if it's going to be deleted off FB... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dnw7CHJXgAAyR9m.jpg

My favourite is the one where Hitler tries to ask Donald Trump a question - of course he gets brushed off per "you're fake news!" Very cool dialogue all through - and for once they are only using a bit of the famous rant scene. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBD4vboKfkE

[Tolvo]

https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/spongebob-squarepants-creator-dead-dies-stephen-hillenburg-1203037362/

The creator of Spongebob died due to ALS. :(

[RedRose]

Louise that video!!! LOL.
It's extra difficult to read the subtitles and not listen to what they say. I love when there are some words in common

[gaggedLouise]

Louise that video!!! LOL.
It's extra difficult to read the subtitles and not listen to what they say. I love when there are some words in common

Yes it is. I love the variations in Hitler's tone, his way of speaking across that clip, and how they have used it to reflect the crazy story :)

[Icelandic]

Yes it is. I love the variations in Hitler's tone, his way of speaking across that clip, and how they have used it to reflect the crazy story :)

I heard the movie was VERY accurate as well. Like, the scenes in the movie were all based on eye-witness accounts and even interviews with surviving members of the bunker.

[Tolvo]

https://thinkprogress.org/trans-woman-died-in-ice-detention-beaten-5c8e20a3b717/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5bfd31d704d30154805b74f1&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trans-woman-roxsana-hernandez-rodriguez-beaten-in-ice-custody-before-death-pathologist-finds

If you missed it more news on the death of Roxsana. She was beaten before she died due to the neglect of ICE. After fleeing death and torture to seek out asylum ICE ended up killing her. Just, I knew this was what happened but seeing the current reporting and the reminder and confirmation, just so fucking furious.

[RedRose]

I heard the movie was VERY accurate as well. Like, the scenes in the movie were all based on eye-witness accounts and even interviews with surviving members of the bunker.

I heard so too. I watched it years ago and remember it was very "realistic". I can't remember if I watched in French, English or German.

[Tolvo]

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/418634-ammon-bundy-slams-trump-over-anti-migrant-rhetoric?__twitter_impression=true

What the fuck is happening

https://lifestyle.clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606

It's one of these moments

[Icelandic]

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/418634-ammon-bundy-slams-trump-over-anti-migrant-rhetoric?__twitter_impression=true

What the fuck is happening

https://lifestyle.clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606

It's one of these moments

I didn't expect that source of criticism definitely, although wouldn't Ammon Bundy be described as a radical libertarian? Or maybe even Ancap? If his views are similar to that, then a Trump-esque border policy would definitely be against his moral views.

I admittedly have no idea what Ammon Bundy's political views are outside of his views on land rights.

Either way, It's not like you are gunna read this anyways so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯




... Also wait. Aren't the Bundy's supposed to be in prison?

[Tolvo]

Ok I did read this one, Icelandic I have you blocked. The mods recommended we put each other on ignore and not talk to each other and I've seen you in threads still trying to talk to me despite this. So please, I do not wish to interact with you. If you want to post in the same threads as me that's fine even if it's my own thread but I have had you ignored and the mods recommended it to both of us and I'd appreciate if you stopped.

[Icelandic]

Ok I did read this one, Icelandic I have you blocked. The mods recommended we put each other on ignore and not talk to each other and I've seen you in threads still trying to talk to me despite this. So please, I do not wish to interact with you. If you want to post in the same threads as me that's fine even if it's my own thread but I have had you ignored and the mods recommended it to both of us and I'd appreciate if you stopped.

I mean, if there are conversations about politics happening, I would like to be apart of that.

(Also you probably should have PMed me this rather then posting this out in the open...)

[Lustful Bride]

Amnesty International and even Google's own workers protest Google towing the line with China's newest round of censorship programs to support the government's attempts to control information and link specific search engine searches with people.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/27/read-google-employees-open-letter-protesting-project-dragonfly.html

[Tolvo]

Ah yeah I've been seeing this as people add a new signature each time. It is really disturbing what tech companies are willing to do for money. But that is capitalism for you. I'm glad to see though there are people who are speaking out about this.

[Icelandic]

Amnesty International and even Google's own workers protest Google towing the line with China's newest round of censorship programs to support the government's attempts to control information and link specific search engine searches with people.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/27/read-google-employees-open-letter-protesting-project-dragonfly.html

Good. It's very important that this kinda software not be developed by Google. No one should trust Google to not use that kinda software worldwide when Google is so blatantly interested in censorship of it's platform and child companies.