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Author Topic: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking  (Read 1215 times)

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Offline TolvoTopic starter

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2019, 04:35:16 PM »
I think there are a few pro Trump members I have seen, and I know there are conservative members of E. I don't know that I'd call E and echo chamber since people are constantly disagreeing about many things it is simply that rule breaking material is not allowed. So as long as people aren't hateful and are respectful of others and their lives and rights it should be fine.

It should be mentioned the Democratic party is largely anti-socialist, anti-Marxist, and pro-capitalism. Though the voting base is a bit different from the party. In mainstream media there is very little leftist representation it is more left-leaning center. Mainstream feminism is the same. There are leftist feminists, intersectional feminism is itself inherently leftist unlike other forms of feminism as it focuses on economic inequalities for all. But many use the name without actually believing in all the core parts of it. Liberals and leftists typically do not like each other much because there is a huge divide ideologically between them regarding economics. There is a representation of feminism in mainstream British media but it is very heavily right wing feminists who find more in common with the Catholic Church than mainstream feminist thought.

Also hormones are not given to children that is false, puberty blockers are. They hold off puberty for children who are transgender or questioning. If the person figures out they aren't transgender they stop taking them and will go through puberty still. Puberty blockers are only a risk if someone has specific medical conditions that doctors check them for first. Otherwise they are completely harmless and reversible.

Society is openly, objectively, and honestly addressing a lot of these things. Learning new things can be scary for many, especially when they've been told wrong information much of their life such as there being only two genders when we've known there are more for much of history until culture shifted to believe in only two genders in specific parts of the world for a time. Though knowledge of genetics and karyotypes, of intersex people, of hormones, of many more skeletal differences than male or female, have advanced quite a bit in the last hundred years especially the last thirty years. And doing drag is not harmful to children really it is dress up which many children do in other ways such as dressing up as superheroes or Star Wars characters.

I'm not sure if Political Correctness has much of a meaning anymore. Or if it ever did. For instance being against hateful material is seen as being PC, but also will get a lot of hatred and harassment so politically it is damaging meaning it isn't Politically Correct. I'm a a transgender woman against transphobia for instance, which is politically not favored at all so it doesn't make sense that it would make me politically correct when it is politically very damaging to me. Censorship is also traditionally a right wing tool not a left wing one.

Though finding dominant play partners is a different matter, and fine. There is nothing wrong with having kinks and fantasies and desires like that.

Offline Bly

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2019, 05:02:48 PM »
Hi, I’m Chantarelle and I may get beat up in here but I just thought that this felt like the “safest” space to come out of the closet...I voted for Trump...I’m a conservative, republican with libertarian leanings. There! I feel better now. I’ve just felt a total lack of representation among the E community. I love everybody but it sounds an awful lot like an echo chamber in most threads, not to mention media outlets. But anyways I wanted to comment on Feminism a little...

I have no problem with feminists, I happen to not identify as one myself, but people can think how they want. However, it isn’t feminists but radical/socialist/Marxist feminists that suffocate the mainstream nowadays to the point being a liberal is synonymous with the democrat party and the LGBTQ+ community and with it the problem of giving hormones to children because gender is a spectrum now and it is fine for little kids to do drag. I’m not trying to offend but you have to give society a chance to talk about these things openly, objectively, and honestly. Society has changed so rapidly for people. There has been a radical push from a left leaning media to promote a PC culture, in other words censorship and a feminization of men at large, a reason why so many of us are on E looking for dominant role play partners because irl masculinity has become “toxic”. There are real world consequences to all of this, Trump was just one of them.

So I'm not going to jump on you for voting for Trump, though I will say that I think he's not the candidate you think he is when it comes to certain values. You're not the only member of the forum that's expressed that you've voted for him--though E by it's nature tends to attract more liberal mindsets certainly.

I can see what you mean about the feminism comment--I'm not sure you worded that as well as you could have, but the impression I got is that you are okay with feminism, you just struggle with certain types of it. Okay, fair. No stance is immune from criticism. Though I do identify as a feminist myself. I don't see this 'feminization' culture you are talking about.

Your point about trans children, however, is inaccurate. Generally speaking, as Tolvo's mentioned, what happens for most is that they get puberty blockers, which don't cause any permanent changes, and they stay on those until they are legally able to make a more permanent decision for themselves, or sometimes just a bit earlier when they are in their late teens if parents consent as well. And puberty blockers are quite reversible & have very little in the way of risks (again, as Tolvo said, provided you don't have some manner of condition that doesn't play well with those)--just stop taking them and b-bam, puberty for one's biological sex will occur. As for 'kids doing drag'--what children wear is really the business of the child themselves and their parents. I'm of the opinion that people shouldn't backseat parent other people's kids.

As for the 'on E looking for dominant RPers because in RL men are feminized'--I'll be honest, that sounds a bit silly. There's always been a general demand for those who can write quality dominant roles; most people who've been roleplaying awhile know that the ratios of dominant/sub are skewed, and it's got nothing to do with 'feminizing men' in everyday life, not really.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 05:44:08 PM by Bly »

Offline Skynet

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2019, 05:53:00 PM »
Hi, I’m Chantarelle and I may get beat up in here but I just thought that this felt like the “safest” space to come out of the closet...I voted for Trump...I’m a conservative, republican with libertarian leanings. There! I feel better now. I’ve just felt a total lack of representation among the E community. I love everybody but it sounds an awful lot like an echo chamber in most threads, not to mention media outlets. But anyways I wanted to comment on Feminism a little...

I have no problem with feminists, I happen to not identify as one myself, but people can think how they want. However, it isn’t feminists but radical/socialist/Marxist feminists that suffocate the mainstream nowadays to the point being a liberal is synonymous with the democrat party and the LGBTQ+ community and with it the problem of giving hormones to children because gender is a spectrum now and it is fine for little kids to do drag. I’m not trying to offend but you have to give society a chance to talk about these things openly, objectively, and honestly. Society has changed so rapidly for people. There has been a radical push from a left leaning media to promote a PC culture, in other words censorship and a feminization of men at large, a reason why so many of us are on E looking for dominant role play partners because irl masculinity has become “toxic”. There are real world consequences to all of this, Trump was just one of them.

There's a difference between drag performance and transgender people.

Drag artists are performers. They are mainly cisgender people who wear clothing culturally associated with the opposite sex, usually out of a means of self-expression or a means of connecting with hobbies and activity mainstream society would look down upon.

Transgender people are not performing. They really are the genders they identify as, and various medical journals and psychological associations are in agreement.

As for children and hormone blockers, this is often done for transgender children as a means of reducing suffering. In many cases it requires parental consent, but as hormone blockers can be reversed it's usually used to prevent puberty which can increase gender dysphoria.

There's a very good video on what transgender people go through regarding the complications of their body and self-identity from said dysphoria. Obvious content warning: it talks about the aforementioned issues as well as suicide.


Edit: Looks like some other people responded. I'll still provide my own thoughts. Hopefully it will be of help to you. :)

Offline Chantarelle

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2019, 06:39:59 PM »
I misspoke, I meant puberty blockers. But to say these things aren’t harmful? That’s putting the cart before the horse. This is all just an experiment encouraged by progressivism. The ramifications of putting a child in a highly sexualized culture of drag queens and gay bars must hold some weight. And puberty blockers are still experimental, and some practitioners question the ethics and safety of this treatment strategy. Parents, children and doctors are making decisions based on “scientific ignorance’, it still remains unknown if regular puberty will resume following suppression.


Offline TolvoTopic starter

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2019, 06:46:58 PM »
Drag is not inherently sexual, and gay bars are entirely separate from that. It is not sexualizing children or putting them in sexual situations in any way.

Puberty blockers aren't really an experiment they're a well researched and established form of medicine to aid children with dysphoria. It isn't ignorance, if there is some unknown problem it has yet to be discovered and puberty blockers have been in use for years. Most doctors and other medical professionals agree puberty blockers are good to use and the preferred method of treatment for those with gender dysphoria. And there are people who have gone off puberty blockers and then gone through puberty, so we do know that will happen.

Puberty blockers are well considered the most ethical and safest treatment across the board.

Offline Bly

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2019, 06:48:40 PM »
I misspoke, I meant puberty blockers. But to say these things aren’t harmful? That’s putting the cart before the horse. This is all just an experiment encouraged by progressivism. The ramifications of putting a child in a highly sexualized culture of drag queens and gay bars must hold some weight. And puberty blockers are still experimental, and some practitioners question the ethics and safety of this treatment strategy. Parents, children and doctors are making decisions based on “scientific ignorance’, it still remains unknown if regular puberty will resume following suppression.

Children don't go to gay bars. That is not a thing. Children of any age do not go to any bars. You have to be 18 or older to even go into bars for the most part in the USA.

Drag culture is more than just drag queens in bars. Not all drag is sexual; you are making a very strange assumption with that. I think perhaps you don't know very much about trans people, gay culture, or drag culture, to be honest. You are saying a lot of stereotypes or false assumptions that don't really hold weight with reality.

And yes, we do know puberty blockers are reversible. We scientifically know that.

From the American Academy of Pediatrics:

https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf

Quote
For children, pre-adolescents and early adolescents, gender transition is mainly a social process. Children
beginning puberty may also use puberty-suppressing medication as they explore their gender identity.
Both of these steps are completely reversible.

Offline TolvoTopic starter

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2019, 06:54:36 PM »
Though if we do get too highly detailed and advanced on the topic of transgender people, gender broadly, hormones, medicine, etc, it probably would fit in its own thread on the subject(Something I've considered doing but am unsure if it would stay civil) rather than here as this is more on philosophies and ideologies rather than specifically gender and sexuality.

Offline Chantarelle

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2019, 07:09:13 PM »
Desmond the Amazing, a drag kid who performed at a gay club...https://www.google.com/amp/s/townhall.com/tipsheet/briannaheldt/2018/12/19/controversy-arises-over-11yearold-child-in-drag-dancing-in-bar-n2537807%3famp=true

And I’m not sure if you’ve been to a gay pride parade or hung around drag queens but it’s highly and graphically sexualized and I would say yes inherently. I don’t think it’s a strange assumption at all. Just something we must disagree on fundamentally.

Offline TolvoTopic starter

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2019, 07:18:09 PM »
So far I am seeing the story coming from the Daily Wire cited by the news groups talking about this event, which is a very anti-LGBTQIA+ site and right wing extremist news source.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/

They also have a poor rating for factual accuracy, and their original article reporting it is full of talk about a gay agenda, and how drag is bad and weird. So it's a very homophobic source.

It's not impossible that a child could be put in such an environment by people not intending it in an adult way though I'd be against any children in an adult venue even if for non-adult purposes. The child drag performer Desmond is Amazing I am not seeing other instances like this reported for either. But even if it were true, it happening once is not the same as it being a trend, and the source for it is incredibly suspect.

Offline Bly

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2019, 07:31:54 PM »
On a completely different note, after rereading the OP:

Quote
talk about distinctions between things like Marxism, Marxist Leninism, Stalinism, Bolshevism, Maoism, and the various other forms of Communism and ideas.

I'd love something like this, really. I'm not the best at making these sorts of distinctions (sometimes I mix up terms), and I'd enjoy reading an informative post that helps sort and distinguish these out in an easily-accessible way.

Offline TolvoTopic starter

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2019, 07:59:28 PM »
Some of them have very little distinction. Salinism and Marxist Leninism for instance, which may be confusing because they have completely different names. But Marxist Leninism was the ideology of Stalin that he put forth, he named it as such to show ideological heritage and to use the authority of Marx and Lenin to support his ideology, but Marxist Leninism can exist in forms that branch away from Stalin's personal views but will still be authoritarian in ways no matter what. And neither Marx nor Lenin supported Marxist Leninism and Marxists, Leninists, and Marxist Leninists, tend to all hate each other.

Usually distinctions are made between, Authoritarian Communism, Anti-Authoritarian/Anarchist Communism, and Strict Anarchist(No government period) Communism.

Maoism is a form of Marxist Leninism with a focus on the peasants leading the revolution.

Marxist Leninism is focused on revolution and establishment of an authoritarian communist government that rules through a single dictator and control of the people.

Stalinism is a form of Marxist Leninism, it is very specifically focused on the beliefs of Stalin and sort of worshiping him as a demigod. Many Marxist Leninists are Stalinists but not all are. So people use the terms interchangeably often.

Leninism is about establishing a vanguard party that will lead through a sort of group dictatorship that represents the people. This is also commonly associated with Bolshevism.

Boshevism though is mostly a term associated with Nazis, they usually mean Leninism. And National Bolsheviks just means National Socialists or basically, the Nazis. This is also where the term Cultural Marxist comes from, Cultural Bolshevik, and the use of the term was pioneered by Nazis, then Neo Nazis. Which Socialism and Nazism are actually separate and contradictory ideologies(Though Socialists did exist within the Nazi Party early on, but Hitler killed them or had them imprisoned).

Marxism is strictly more about class warfare itself and and about the working class rising up and establishing a form of society where power does balanced among all. It does not need to be authoritarian but can be, many though of this branch are anti-authoritarian. Though it does not itself take into account factors outside of economics. Though forms of Marxism do.

Trotskyism is anti-authoritarian and views the revolution as never ending, that people need to be ready to fight against any power that will try to rise to oppress the people.

Anarcho Communists are a strictly anti-authoritarian form of Communism that wants Communism through either community agreements and working together or a government that doesn't have total power and is heavily covered by checks and balances and the people.

Then there are strict Anarchist variants, though they are more for creating small communes since its impossible for them to have enough power to change a country since many are so anti-civilization, anti-society, anti-power, that they can't exert any power at all and are more like small communes living in nature.

Most Communist idealogies come from Marx though it actually predates him and comes from the late 1700's, and is based on French Enlightenment teachings. And Communism is based in Egalitarianism and equality but takes those concepts and applies them to Economic analysis and forms of economics that bring about equality for all as the focus.

It is though a common criticism of those who believe only economic solutions are needed and will solve all problems that we don't live in such a simple world. As racism, sexism, all sorts of other forms inequality would still exist. Which I agree with solving economic inequalities would help but it won't solve all of the problems in the world, and I view economic equality as one part of a greater goal for a better world for all of humanity.

This is simplifying things and going with the important and basic differences. It is not including all of the millions of little differences which are super complicated and would basically require a lot of research and conversations to understand. But, these are the basics and can help with understanding the differences.

Offline Chantarelle

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2019, 08:15:09 PM »
Myself and others see this as something not to bat an eye at or this...https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzz.ie/amp/latest/outrage-10-year-old-drag-queen-naked-adult-313565

The video and pictures speak for themselves. As for daily wire, it’s only low because he is right leaning. I’ve listened to Ben Shapiro for a long time I don’t doubt the articles are true. He speaks for a lot of people who are actually very excited to see him run for president one day. Students picket him, call him a white supremicist natzi which is so untrue that it’s laughable. But getting back to blockers...

““One of the challenges that’s been faced in the past is that treatment of the transgender population really didn’t start until they were either at least older adolescents or adults,” said Dr. Courtney Finlayson, a pediatric endocrinologist at Lurie Children’s Hospital. “And by that time they’ve had all of the pubertal and physical changes that go along with their … natal sex.”

With the use of puberty blockers, “we’re really starting to some extent from a little bit more of a blank slate,” Finlayson  explained. “We don’t have to be erasing or trying to get rid of all these other changes that occurred that they don’t want.”

However, the use of puberty blockers to treat transgender children is what’s considered an “off label” use of the medication — something that hasn’t been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. And doctors say their biggest concern is about how long children stay on the medication, because there isn’t enough research into the effects of stalling puberty at the age when children normally go through it.”

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/when-transgender-kids-transition-medical-risks-are-both-known-and-unknown/

It seems they’ve been using the blockers for years but not on children. It’s an experiment wrapped as a solution to a problem that 80-95% of children outgrow naturally. It doesn’t sound entirely on the up and up to me.

But I’ll stop now I’m sorry if I hijacked your thread.

Offline TolvoTopic starter

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2019, 08:41:32 PM »
Well Ben Shapiro definitely is a Neo Nazi, he espouses their ideologies and associates with them.

I'd still recommend though finding accurate respectable sources, with one of the most respectable ones talking about this news story again being Daily Wire so I still cannot confirm if that is a real photo or not.

There is no video but the picture again still isn't sexual, it is based on something Violet did previously and Violet's genitals aren't exposed, but I will say I think that the picture shouldn't be taken still and that Violet shouldn't have done that if it did happen. Nudity does exist in spaces where there are children, mostly in other countries like nude beaches and bathing areas with parents present. I'm assuming parents were present though if they weren't that's a serious problem. But in America doing so will be seen strictly as pedophilia especially for someone who is trans and does drag where they are wrongly associated with pedophilia by bigots.

Also the FDA have approved certain puberty blockers for different purposes.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/136/6/1029.full.pdf

Certain ones are still approved but are used in cancer treatment as the focus while others are completely approved for transgender children. And this is from years ago, meaning puberty blockers have been in use for children with gender dysphoria for years. Though public knowledge of this didn't become common until the 2010's as well as the research.

And yeah probably any more and it should go in its own thread.

Offline sdparquinn

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2019, 09:42:27 AM »
Well Ben Shapiro definitely is a Neo Nazi, he espouses their ideologies and associates with them.

I'd still recommend though finding accurate respectable sources, with one of the most respectable ones talking about this news story again being Daily Wire so I still cannot confirm if that is a real photo or not.

There is no video but the picture again still isn't sexual, it is based on something Violet did previously and Violet's genitals aren't exposed, but I will say I think that the picture shouldn't be taken still and that Violet shouldn't have done that if it did happen. Nudity does exist in spaces where there are children, mostly in other countries like nude beaches and bathing areas with parents present. I'm assuming parents were present though if they weren't that's a serious problem. But in America doing so will be seen strictly as pedophilia especially for someone who is trans and does drag where they are wrongly associated with pedophilia by bigots.

Also the FDA have approved certain puberty blockers for different purposes.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/136/6/1029.full.pdf

Certain ones are still approved but are used in cancer treatment as the focus while others are completely approved for transgender children. And this is from years ago, meaning puberty blockers have been in use for children with gender dysphoria for years. Though public knowledge of this didn't become common until the 2010's as well as the research.

And yeah probably any more and it should go in its own thread.
Eh... I dislike Shapiro as much as the next guy but is he really a Neo-Nazi? He's gross in other ways but I would never peg him as a Neo-Nazi.

Offline TolvoTopic starter

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2019, 09:59:32 AM »
https://www.thedailybeast.com/ben-shapiro-podcast-loses-ads-after-baby-hitler-speech-at-march-for-life

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/19/17593174/mark-duplass-ben-shapiro-apology

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/california-forum/article199889049.html

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/16/18183799/gop-steve-king-conservatism-racism-language-politics

Yeah he's pretty Neo Nazi, and associates with and is supported by many of them. He believes in race science, he supported the murder of Trayvon Martin, he thinks Transgender people are just mentally ill, he has called for ethnic cleansings, he's said and supported a lot of really reprehensible positions and views that cement him quite in the camp of being a Neo Nazi. His recent statement about how he would defend baby Hitler(Based on a ridiculous hypothetical) is honestly very tip of the iceburg for him. Many times he has supported murders of black people, has called for killings of people, has shown he hates LGBTQIA+ people, and supports white supremacy. On top of that many people he associates with are Neo Nazis, as a reminder he did work for Breitbart for a short time. He has before defended the White Genocide myth. Very firmly, he's a Neo Nazi. Just a popular one that people like to pretend isn't one because agreeing with someone recognized as a Neo Nazi is typically not good for one's image.

Offline Chantarelle

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2019, 11:14:29 AM »
I thought we were done with this and Vox? Biased much? Where has he called for ethnic cleansings, I’m curious? This man is Jewish and this is where the liberal left go way too far with labeling everyone who thinks differently as natzi’s and racist. Support the murders of black people? He does not do that. No one does that! His last mention of Steve King was that republicans are always forced to deal with “cleaning house” and democrats still haven’t denounced such people like Louis Farrakhan and his anti-Semitic references. I just get tired of everything being mysoginistic and racist nowadays! It’s silly and takes out of context so many things. I’m sorry but if nowadays a black person cant be racist then a Jew can’t be a natzi. Perhaps it is his view of transgenderism that gets him in trouble but again, these are his opinions and he is allowed to have them, plus he isn’t the only one who thinks that way, we are still having societal discussions trying to wrap our heads around all of this and it takes more than a generation to change a society. People want others to speak freely and honestly, well that comes with hearing opinions you don’t like because that’s the way the world works, you can’t go around not being offended all the time and pretending everyone things the way you do and if they don’t we have to give them a monstrous label. It’s not ok.

Offline TolvoTopic starter

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2019, 11:47:03 AM »
I thought we were done with this and Vox? Biased much? Where has he called for ethnic cleansings, I’m curious? This man is Jewish and this is where the liberal left go way too far with labeling everyone who thinks differently as natzi’s and racist. Support the murders of black people? He does not do that. No one does that! His last mention of Steve King was that republicans are always forced to deal with “cleaning house” and democrats still haven’t denounced such people like Louis Farrakhan and his anti-Semitic references. I just get tired of everything being mysoginistic and racist nowadays! It’s silly and takes out of context so many things. I’m sorry but if nowadays a black person cant be racist then a Jew can’t be a natzi. Perhaps it is his view of transgenderism that gets him in trouble but again, these are his opinions and he is allowed to have them, plus he isn’t the only one who thinks that way, we are still having societal discussions trying to wrap our heads around all of this and it takes more than a generation to change a society. People want others to speak freely and honestly, well that comes with hearing opinions you don’t like because that’s the way the world works, you can’t go around not being offended all the time and pretending everyone things the way you do and if they don’t we have to give them a monstrous label. It’s not ok.

https://www.creators.com/read/ben-shapiro/06/07/the-radical-evil-of-the-palestinian-arab-population

Right here he calls for Ethnic cleansing.

"The Palestinian people, who support, fund and execute suicide bombings. The Palestinian people, who dress their toddlers in bomb belts and then take family snapshots. The Palestinian people, who cheered on September 11 as the World Trade Center towers fell. The Palestinian people, who followed terrorist extraordinaire Yasser Arafat, supported Saddam Hussein, shredded the blooming rose that was once Christian Lebanon, and almost toppled the Western-friendly Jordanian monarchy. The Palestinian people, who destroy relics on the Temple Mount, openly call for the destruction of the state of Israel, ally with Syria and Iran, and elect Hamas. The Palestinian people, who teach their children that the Holocaust is a fairy tale, and that Jews routinely poison Palestinian candy. The Palestinian people, who stage injuries in order to solicit Western media sympathy, and then roar madly as they hold up their hands, red with the blood of murdered Israeli soldiers." - Ben Shapiro

"The idea of an entire population corrupted by bloodthirsty anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism violates modern ideas of politics. According to the Bush administration, the problem with the Palestinian Arabs isn't the Palestinian Arabs — it's their leadership. During Yasser Arafat's tenure, the problem was Yasser Arafat, not the hundreds of thousands who followed him. Now the problem is Hamas, not the hundreds of thousands who supported and elected them." - Ben Shapiro

The problem runs deeper than a few figureheads. The Palestinian Arab population is rotten to the core. There are many to be blamed: Yasser Arafat, who lined his pockets with cash and subsidized murder while playing the victim of oppression. An Arab world that refused to absorb the Palestinian population, preferring to use it as a political pawn against Israel. The United Nations, which suckled the Palestinian Arab population into dependency at the international teat. Israel, for emboldening the Palestinian Arabs by conceding to them." - Ben Shapiro

"But in the end, the blame must lie with the Palestinian Arabs themselves. They have accepted their role with relish. They are as responsible for their government's longstanding evil as the Germans were for the Nazis'." - Ben Shapiro

"It is far more convenient, however, for the Bush administration and the international community to treat the Palestinian Arabs' thoroughgoing radicalism as a top-down problem. Throw a bit of money at the Holocaust denier, pressure Israel into concessions and hope that the Palestinian Arabs will abandon their attachment to Islamofascism, the logic runs." - Ben Shapiro

"Such policy demonstrates an adolescent understanding of Palestinian Arab motivation. Palestinian Arabs will not be bribed: The West has bribed them for decades, and the Palestinian Arabs have demonstrated their preference for suicide bombing over working toilets. Palestinian Arabs will not be moderated: Israel has ceded land continuously since 1993, and the Palestinian Arabs have demonstrated their preference for murder over peace. Palestinian Arabs must be fought on their own terms: as a people dedicated to an evil cause." - Ben Shapiro

"So far, Israel and America have willfully blinded themselves to the harsh reality of popular evil. They have refused to come to terms with the harsh fact that collective choices require collective treatment." - Ben Shapiro

"Treating collective problems as problems of individuals is a vacuous panacea. Waiting for Arafat to die of old age did not moderate the Palestinian Arabs; supporting one radical over another will not moderate them, either. The Palestinian Arab population breeds terrorism, anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism. If Israel and America refuse to recognize that simple truth, they will continue to pay the price in blood and treasure." - Ben Shapiro

Again I suggest actually clicking and reading the links, the quotes from Shapiro celebrating the murders of black teenagers, the links to his own writing and videos and statements and speeches. He has called for killing Palestinians and that he believes they are inherently evil. He believes certain races are genetically inferior and have inherent differences in intelligence. Ironically, your statement would be what people call using Identity Politics, using Shapiro's heritage and religion to claim he can't be a Neo Nazi when he is very blatantly one. Keep in mind many Neo Nazis exist that belong to groups that Neo Nazis want to exterminate. Black Neo Nazis do exist, such people are often used as smokescreens to try and defend ideologies. And Ben Shapiro is fine with comparing entire ethnic groups to the Nazis, so he's not a very good person to defend in that regard.

As well, freedom of speech and freedom of expression applies to me as well. Unless you believe it only applies to hateful people. When someone makes obvious white supremacist statements I will point out that they are an accurately label said person. If they are offended by being called a Neo Nazi, they shouldn't be a Neo Nazi.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/426025-womens-march-official-says-group-has-been-unequivocal-about-denouncing-anti

Also many Dems have denounced him, cut ties with him, and the DNC are cutting funds to groups that do not condemn him. Though there are those who have not done so publicly or still stand by him. But to state the Dems broadly stand by him is false. Most are simply not making a big show of it but are cutting ties with him and those associating with him. Though Democrats do still struggle with cleaning house, they are much better at it than the GOP but that's not a high bar.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2019, 12:08:35 PM »
While it's tangential to the main thrust of the discussion, the idea that a black person cannot be racist or a Jewish person cannot be a neo-Nazi is, I feel, very much not true. As a pointed counter-example to the general claim (you cannot be what you hate, if I get the gist right), Milo Yiannopoulos - another prominent alt-right figure - is both openly gay and describes being gay as 'abberant' and 'a sin'.

Offline TolvoTopic starter

Re: Political Ideologies, Philosophies, Ways of Thinking
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2019, 12:24:56 PM »
My guess is that the statement was in regards to the idea that black people can't be racist against white people. Which is something people do believe, but it's because of how they specifically define racism. They define it as relying on systemic racism. And that also depends on where you live in the world. So the idea is that since systemic racism doesn't exist against white people in the USA based on their skin color, that someone can't have the privilege and power to use race to enforce racist acts against a white person. Prejudice+power essentially. But, many would still agree someone who is black can be ignorant and hateful towards white people and prejudiced. It is simply that they define racism in a way focused on systemic oppression and power over individual oppression and power. And the power of words, and why for example cracker is very milquetoast, and the n word I won't even actually say. One has way more power to it as a word of hate with a long history of hate, the other does not. Telling a very advantaged group that they suck is different from telling a very disadvantaged group with a long history of being disadvantaged that they suck is different. Venting about actually harmful acts is understandable, venting about how a group someone hates is weird or different or spoke back is less understandable.

And depending on where you live it can be very different. For white people it stays the same in a lot of countries since white people have a lot of power in much of the world, and a part of it is that if someone harms a white person in another country that will be an international incident. But for instance in Japan white people will be treated very differently, and as exotic and often as stupid. They'll tend to be offered specific jobs and are not wanted for certain jobs. Though black people in Japan will have it much worse. Though it's usually not as severe as police shooting tons of white people based on them being white in other countries, though again there are exceptions.