WH40000 - what's your opinion?

[TheLaughingOne]

A chimpanzee promises you 80 million dollars to betray your people (which granted, your willing to do normally) but also go against a horde of plague gorillas, unaligned chaos gorillias, daemoneys, hundreds of armed chimpanzees.

And said chimp has beaten you horribly several times, nearly made you lose all station with your people, and continues to threaten you in what are rather inventive and horrible ways that would leave you crippled for the rest of your possibly millenia long life.

You going to give that monkey a chance?

Seriously. Eldar arent human. They dont think like humans. They see humans as unevolved base primative not worthy of their time. Even craftworld eldar think that sacrificing a few TRILLION humans in a system is worth it for even the smallest gain in anything. Dark eldar are even worse.

You know.. whatever. Im done. ive stated my side and its largely been ignored. I'll be back when theres an actual discussion going on.

[TheGlyphstone]

Well that Dark Eldar is an idiot then of he did that.  In that situation I would have listened and be patient to see if the chaos marine was to fulfill his end of the bargain.  For Commorragh to even continue to exist there has to be structure or things wouldn't work.  I viewed that the Dark Eldar are less like Drow and more like Hutts.

Exactly. I guess it comes down to how you see DE cuture. TLO, you seem to interpret them as, indeed, Drow In Spaaaaaaace - compulsive relentless CE backstabbers who are perpetually treacherous even to their own kind and allies regardless if whether or not they benefit from doing so. I think that, like the drow, that sort of cultural mindset would inevitably be an utterly unsustainable society and a Commoragh populated by DE who could not restrain their treacherous instincts would have imploded - very literally, with their tech - millennia ago. They should be more NE as a species overall - just enough LE structure-by-tyranny to counterbalance the CE torture-addict compulsions.

EDIT: No one ignores you, we just think you are wrong. That's okay, and if you don't like being disagreed with, that's also okay.

[Idej]

Yes the Eldar see those that aren't Eldar as animals I get it but just like a human sees a gorilla as an animal the human will respect the fact that the gorilla can rip your face off.  Let alone the fact that when we go into the jungle we know there are animals that will rip out face off if we aren't careful.  A Dark Eldar alone on a human vessel would know that they are in a jungle.  These lesser beings may not know or comprehend the way the Dark Eldar may do, but the humans are still numerous and do have an ability to kill the Dark Eldar.  And the Homunculus bargain is not a cheap offer either.  Otherwise Dark Eldar society would be more CE

[TheLaughingOne]

I regret going back on my last post.... but...


I dont know shit bout drow. I never got into forgotten realms. Roleplay or novels.. so fuck your assertion of me thinking of them as "Drow in space" The only info i have on the dark eldar... Is from the fucking books Codexes, lexicanium articles, novels. In which they are backstabbing cockbites who spend their time planning and plotting against each other. They have alliances depending on strength, in which the moment your shown as weak, everybody below you will try and overthrow you to up themselves, and those above you will take you out because you pose a risk to them as if your weak its a chance someone can get to you through them, And their general contempt of the weak.

WHEN DEALING WITH EACH OTHER they have alliances, pacts, deals, and repercussions to work with to keep them in line. They "respect" higher ranking dark eldar because in their culture only the most horrible come out on top. But if they thought they could get away with it, they would totally cut out that higher ranked officers spine and thread it right back down their urethra, even if just in hopes of winning favor with some other powerful group. Another part of why they dont self destruct and start assassinating each other is the Incubi, master sword/weapon fighters who act as bodyguards and go betweens and remain neutral in all matters so long as they are paid. They are there to protect their lords and ladies and whatever. And to top it off, the higher ranks watch the lowers, if one gets it in his head to just start murdering his way up the ranks openly..

A. he is a possible threat to them, and should be dealt with. Painfully.
B. He isnt showing them the proper respect and should be dealt with. Painfully.
C. He is acting like some brutish Mon'kleigh and is acting without the dignity, guile, and grace of the True Eldar race, and should be dealt with. Painfully.
D. He did so on my orders, and rather then risking him possibly telling my rivals i had that death arranged should be dealt with. Painfully.
E. Because i think he should die, and should be dealt with. Painfully.

They arent running around backstabbing each other like a bunch of raped apes because they operate on Machiavellianism. WITH EACH OTHER.

Any thing that isnt dark eldar, including craftworld and exodite? All gloves are off. They literally have no reason to make a deal with anybody aside from another dark eldar and keep it, like in Wanders story with the tau, and if they did, it would only be until they were "sure" that they could betray the person and torture them horribly and take what they want, because all others are below them. The only thing more deluded are orks.

The DE i exampled before? he played along because he was ABSOLUTELY SURE that he could get the upperhand on that chaos marine when he needed to, but had to wait for the right moment, sure it was powerful and had beatten him, but it was in the end no match because He Is Dark Eldar. The entire race is absolute ego maniacs who are completely assured that they are the absolute perfect being, and even if something else out there gets a leg up for even a second, thats just because they got lucky, and will have the indignity paid back a thousand fold.

Now Fuck it. I've said my peace, i've been ignored, i've had retarded ass words put in my mouth. Im done.

[Idej]

Look I understand where you're coming from, the reason I argued counter to your thoughts is that the rules were put in place to allow DE to be on a Rogue Trader crew.  It is there for a reason and was trying to justify why a DE player would not harm his other players.

[wander]

I don't mean to add fuel to this fire, though I wanted to comment just on this part;

And remember, Fatal isnt quite to dark eldar. If they can get enough scraps they can regrow lost People. Haemonculi have a way of respawning guys if they have enough scraps, though the process is made of hurt, suck, pain, suck and hurty pain. Granted, its a limited time before its open season on their souls.... But it makes me wonder if they could "donate" a sufficent amount of "material" to be held some where, and then regrown using that when they die and their remains cant be retrieved.

Drukhari do expand via cloning, this is what's the difference between Kabalites (a Troop choice, the clones) and Trueborn (an Elite choice and naturally born Drukhari). I've yet to see in the fluff that a clone holds any genetic memory of the Drukhari they were cloned from, though my scientific mind says that a Kabalite would not have the memory of the Trueborn it was cloned from and would be treated as a new person (though I can be proven wrong, I usually just go from the codexs and game supplements for my info, not the novels as Geedubs themselves have mentioned they aren't really edited and checked over to run in line with the game crunch).

Also, Haemonculi experiments aren't the same as direct cloning a Drukhari, it's literally experimentation on a body and turning it into some gods-forsaken abomination body horror Cronenbourg-esque monster. YMMV if taking chunks of a deaded Drukhari and making it a Haemonculi beast would make it the same person with similar memory and brain patterns as the original. Again, my science head would say no, due to all kinds of mind-fuckery placed on them atop of the implications of if a clone made from a tissue sample and then further experimented on via gene-manipulation, cyberisation and biological augmentations would hold the same persona as the original.

Again, I'm not making this post to say to anyone 'fuck you, you're wrong', I'm more opening the table of discussion to another avenue here.

[Idej]

You are very correct in your statements.  The only reason I even mentioned DE was their playstyles on the board is something I like and the fact they are playable in RT

[wander]

Well, if your GM is okay with it, then go for it. Though of course realise there may be some issues in playing one. ^^'

[TheGlyphstone]

Well, if your GM is okay with it, then go for it. Though of course realise there may be some issues in playing one. ^^'

The biggest one being that everyone else will be expecting you to be a psycho traitorous nutjob.

[wander]

It'd be awesome if you played them as super friendly and helpful, legitimately so. They'll be wondering when the other shoe will drop though you'll never let it and it'll freak the group out as they're trying to get a read on this random Drukhari exile who's being far too nice and kind for who they are... 

[HairyHeretic]

http://www.servantsoftheimperium.com/comic.php?comicid=34

[Idej]

I was actually wanting to make a character who would eventually be my Archon for the Kabal that will be a part of the Ynnari army I want to run.

I wanted the experience this future Archon to shape the Kabal into something akin to the Scorpion Clan of the Ynnari.  Not losing as the villains but those willing to do the dirty work and value loyalty amongst each other heavily.

[TheGlyphstone]

It'd be awesome if you played them as super friendly and helpful, legitimately so. They'll be wondering when the other shoe will drop though you'll never let it and it'll freak the group out as they're trying to get a read on this random Drukhari exile who's being far too nice and kind for who they are... 

The best part is that it's actually in-character too. You'll be driving the other characters insane with worry and paranoia. It doesn't actually feed your physical pain addiction, so you'll need to torture some underdeck mutants once in a while. But in terms of mental suffering and distress, you can't beat it.

[Idej]

Dammit you are way too right in that department lol

Either way I do want to make a Dark Eldar in Rogue Trader to help facilitate the story of the Kabal I'm making that will be part of the Ynnari.  Trust and loyalty are foreign concepts to the Dark Eldar.  Or at the very least guidelines at best and not laws.

Reading Ghost Warrior did exemplify the fact that the Drukhari that are with the Ynnari are struggling with these concepts.  Some easier than others, but it is still a hard thing for them to do.  Heck, it is mentioned that the word for ally for the Drukhari roughly translates as 'currently-not-enemy.'  So, I wanted to make an Archon that was more used to the concepts of trust, loyalty, and brotherhood/sisterhood, which in turn will make it easier for the Archon to go to the Ynnari, besides just to spite Vect or for greater power.  I mean there are other Drukhari who understand that their ways of surviving from Slaanesh are not a good solution and whole heartedly believe in the Ynnari but these folks are rare and generally witnessed any member of the Triumvirate of Ynnead perform some sort of 'miracle' to make them believe.

[wander]

Sounds a bit 'special snowflake Mary Sue' to me... Though sure, go with what you want your character to be. One thing to mention is that combat in the FFG 40k system is usually lethal as all hell, so... I probably wouldn't get too attached to your character getting through the game without a scratch. ^^'

[Idej]

Now that you mention it, it does.  Was not the intention of that, that is to be honest.  Just was trying to figure out how I could make all of these thoughts fit logically.  But I do get it, this is why I did put it up here so I could get input.  I'd rather get input and help than to be all mean jerky to all of you folks. 

[TheGlyphstone]

Ultimately, any RPG character is going to be at least a little special-snowflakey. That's their innate role as one of the protagonists, to be simply better, stronger, smarter, than the endless hordes of peons that populate their world. 40K RPGs even make it explicit with Touched By The Fates; you are literally more important on a cosmic scale than most people.

In this case, you're also helped by the canon existence of the Ynnari and the presence of Drukkari among them, so it's not even a snowflake story of being the first Dark Eldar to learn the power of love - it's exploring the journey from one canon type of character - the regular psycho DE - to the new type of character. So unless you hijack your campaign and overshadow the other PCs along the way, your Mary Sue quotient is drastically reduced.

[Idej]

That is what I exactly want.  I want to have this Rogue Trader group be that journey.  I know my character is Dark Eldar amongst more than likely an all human crew.  I do stand out IC wise, but I am also aware that to attempt to hijack the story would not make the transitions I want with this character to be possible in any way shape or form.  By doing so, it makes the transitions seem forced and not genuine.  Yeah I know that there will be times where I have to nudge the story in my direction to facilitate these transitions but it is more like diverting a stream to reach a specific spot but still going to its end destination over completely diverting the whole course of the stream.

[Idej]

So to put a close on the Dark Eldar.  I put an advert looking for anyone willing to run a game with a Dark Eldar for Rogue Trader and all that.  If any of you want to run the game feel free to check it out.

On other news who is hyped for Necromunda?

[CopperLily]

I wonder if a Dark Eldar could fit into a Black Crusade game easier? As long as there weren't any Slaaneshi players around at any rate :)

A Corsair would get you all the mercenary alien with a lot less desire to eat your soul.

[CopperLily]

I was actually wanting to make a character who would eventually be my Archon for the Kabal that will be a part of the Ynnari army I want to run.

I wanted the experience this future Archon to shape the Kabal into something akin to the Scorpion Clan of the Ynnari.  Not losing as the villains but those willing to do the dirty work and value loyalty amongst each other heavily.

Read Gav Thorpe's Jain Zar book - there's some Dark Eldar working with Corsairs etc. that have ways to represent a Dark Eldar whose not immediately Backstabby McStaberson.

Along with some who are.

[Idej]

I just picked up Asurmen and Jain Zar and reading Asurmen first atm though that is good to know.  Thanks CopperLily!!

[CopperLily]

Asurmen is good as well :)

[Idej]

Have you read Ghost Warrior yet?  I really enjoyed the book.  I have Path of the Eldar and Path of the Dark Eldar too. 

But Ghost Warrior has some Dark Eldar struggling with the transition of joining the Ynnari

[CopperLily]

Have you read Ghost Warrior yet?  I really enjoyed the book.  I have Path of the Eldar and Path of the Dark Eldar too. 

But Ghost Warrior has some Dark Eldar struggling with the transition of joining the Ynnari

Haven't had time yet. Too much travel :\