WH40000 - what's your opinion?

[Arkaniel]

Tough choice really. There is not really a wrong one to make. So far, my experience in 8th points out that more attacks is usually better than less in almost any scenario. Especially for general flexibility in battles.

[wander]

Yeah, running the hammer in my mind, rolling say 3 sword attacks and then the 2 talon attacks... Statistically it'd be better to roll all 7 talon attacks in one go. For sure going double talon then. :)

If I use the Daemon Prince's chosen Contagion psy power of Blades of Putrefecation on itself, it gets +1 to wound also, which helps gets more saves in, which means more potential fails to mount the damage up.

[TheLaughingOne]

Blood angel successor chapter Primaris Redemptor.

planning on big mini modeling/painting thing with a friend some point in future. trying to figure what color scheme i wanna go with..

[HairyHeretic]

That the regular kit or the new easy build one?

[TheLaughingOne]

Regular kit. The legs... .... Yeah, the legs were obnoxious. really weird sort of placement position thing, and instructions werent any help. when all was said and done, the torso would have been looking straight up into the sky so had to pop the legs off and take the time to position and hold them myself.

Weapon options are easy enough to rig for swap out as well, fist mounted onslaught or flamer can be switched if you dont glue them in, and same with the plasma and heavy onslaught, just leave the upper arm connector unglued, but put a little glue on the tab to thicken out, and slips on and off with a tiny bit of work letting you switch equips as you like.

trying to find a venerable/librarian/fancy sarcophagus plate thing to fix it up some more though, it fits without glueing so can be swapped about.

picked it up on ebay for about 40, new in box unassembled and on sprues.

[wander]

Well, the blight-hauler only fogs Infantry after reading, so it won't buff the Daemon Prince, that's a monster and it can't buff itself, as it's a vehicle. After my friend has confirmed he has a Ghostkeel, I feel undergunned with anti-tank, so was considering a Chaos Predator instead to escort him up the field. A Predator with a Twin-Lascannon (instead of it's predator autocannon) costs 140pts, so feeling that's a better option now.

However, my mate says the blight-hauler can still buff my Plague Marines which could screen the Prince, however whilst I can have my Marines advance as they have Inexorable Advance so it won't affect their shooting, they're gonna fall behind eventually (5" move + avg of 4" is 9 inches to Prince's 8", though y'know I'm gonna be rolling lower some turns) as I'd like the Prince to get down-field asap as it's melee only (outside of using Smite). Also Plague Marines aren't cheap points-wise. ^^'

The other option would be a Reaper autocannon Helbrute, which always hits on 3+ thanks to Inexorable Advance. Admittedly though, the blight-hauler does give my boys needed cover as they traverse the field and technically would still shield my Prince from being targetted as it'd be a character model behind something.

Thoughts anyone? The only issue would be if the Chaos Predator gets damaged and that'd slow it's movement, however I'm really needing some anti-tank. Kinda sucks that Death Guard don't get something nice and cheap to act as more as screen/troops, because cultists have a 6+ and are gonna get deleted on turn 1 on-foot.

[Arkaniel]

If they are shooting at your cultists, they aren’t shooting at something else.

I’d take the predator with predator cannon. I thought a predator with twin las was more expensive, since the twin las is 50 points alone. Also, nothing sucks more than hitting twice with your twin lascannon and then rolling a double one on damage. The predator cannon gives a very reliable 3 damage per wound for less points. You only lack strength and ap, but for potentially three times as many hits, that’s a fair trade, especially since the predator cannon is cheaper.

I’m not overly familiar with the death guard codex, but my friend takes nurglings and they can tank like a boss. Also, plague marines, so far, appear to be worth every point in the new edition. Sure, more expensive than a regular marine, but T5 and their feel no pain variant makes them very tough, as well as being able to take two special weapons per Squad. Melta for anti vehicle or plasma for anti everything.

Have you considered deep striking terminators with combi weapons? They can deliver a lot of punch, too.

[wander]

True about the cultists, though my mate has a fairly 'masses of bodies' Tau army. He also has a habit of firing anti-infantry at my vehicles (for the increased hits) and anti-tank at my Plague Marines (because higher S and low number of marines ruins my day a fair bit). Basically he has too many guns for a shield to do all that much and at T3 6+ save, it's wasting my points where DG is a pretty elitey army.

A Predator is 90 base and +50 for Twin-Las, making it 140pts; 2pts cheaper than a Blight-Hauler, which has it's uses, though it's only 4+ BS and with a lone missile launcher and multi-melta. I hear ya on the Predator Autocannon getting more reliable hits in though and it's 130pts. The Ghostkeel is T6, so even with S9 I'd still be rolling 3+, same as a S7 weapon.
Because a Ghostkeel gets a -2 to hit if more than 12" away and they have active Stealth Drones, having a higher BS counter works well. Kicking things off at 5+ to hit potentially doesn't sound fun, for a Blight-Hauler it goes down to 6+ to hit, basically making it useless.

Daemons are cool, though I'd need to have the reserve points for them in a seperate detachment and they don't get Death Guard special rules as they don't have the <Death Guard> keyword. At 1,500pts, they may become an option, though right now I'm shaking at getting my bases covered. I'd have thought Plaguebearers to be tanky, not Nurglings (nurglings got disgusting resilience and 5++ save, though are T2, which is not good as Tau wound them with S5 weaponry on a 2+).

I do love the Plague Marines though, which is why I got two squads and they're special weaponed up. The Blight Launcher is almost an autotake for them now at 10pts and the weapon stats they have. They're Assault 2 and S6 so I have two in both my squads and my Champions both have Plasmaguns also.

Termies are expensive for the DG and that's why I've not bothered (because the models are fantastic and look great otherwise).
I've favoured mechanised units mainly down to points, though also Tau and overwatch plus the option to free hit at Deepstrikers killed it for me. For the record though, the Deathshrouds (scythe bodyguard termies) cost 180pts for x3 men, then the Blightlords (which are the regular ones that can take combis) are 225pts for x5men.



Main issue is going for something with some speed and anti-tank though.

[Arkaniel]

I know,butthey aretough and mobile. Problem is tau intercept, true.

I’m just talking my own experience here. Whenever I deploya predator, it fails hard. Termies, even those with just combi bolters tend to do a lot of damage when I deploy them. When my enemies deploy them, I have a hard time getting rid of them, no matter what. Especially since it is easy to avoid a predator by playing with line of sight.

I play semi competitively, though, so my point of view might be different.

[wander]

I actually realised after I sent the message that the Predator would need to move, so it'll be 6+ to hit anyways going forward. Some things I've learned; the Ghostkeel is harder to hit though fairly mid-range. The Broadside is the more long ranged threat, which I've been using my Twin-Las 'Brute against in previous games.

I'm considering grabbing a 2nd Helbrute now and shifting points about to try and make sure at least one 'Brute gets a Fist with Heavy Flamer on it to combat the Ghostkeel. Because it auto-hits, I can chill more. Also 3+ to shoot stuff, even when moving with a Heavy weapon.

[TheLaughingOne]

... Well. my dads tough enough to take down a blood angels captain, was visiting for late christmas stuff and knocked my just finished captain off his little perch thing, both his wings broke off and ones missing! Booooo.

Now only one wing, unless i can find the other in this mess.. had to order the jetpack kit special online as well :T

[Arkaniel]

Really? That sucks. That backpack is the standard issue in the cheap sanguinary guard unit box. I think they are 25$ retail for 5 guards with jet pack, a very good BA unit anyway

[TheLaughingOne]

Huh... Most places round here charge about 35 for it..

Granted i paid about 4 for the pack... but... Yeah. And hey! did find the wing! had bounced into one of my slippers! Where it gashed the hell outta my foot when i put it in..

[Arkaniel]

Really? My local retail charges 22€ and has a permanent -15% sale on all things GW on top of that. Making it about 19€ for a squad of five.

Used to have 20 of those guys, but back then, they were terrible to deploy. Now, they seem pretty good, though I haven’t looked at how many points they cost.

Blood angels haven’t gotten the best book of the set so far, but they are far more playable than in the previous edition, so have fun with them!

Dante is a must, by the way.

[TheLaughingOne]

heh, my army currently has my captain wielding inferno pistol and thunderhammer (with the relic jumpjet so he doesnt take overwatch shots, is gonna spend the game hounding my friends Vulture gunship), my Librarian Dreadnought (cause having a dreadnought melee someones Jet to death is TITS) with the veritas thing to try and regain CP. 2 death company (one with chainswords and hand flamers, for total of around 20+ chainsword attacks that get a +1 to wound, so always wound ona 5+, 5d3 hand flamer shots, they will be anti-infantry, the other is just deathwatch with thunderhammers, (15 thunderhammer attacks!) to handle armour, or any squishies that accidentally stand to close..) Ranged support comes from redemptor dreadnought with heavy onslaught & secondary onslaught, squad of Primaris Reivers (with combat blades) for shock attacks and light objective holding, and maybe a squad of taticals for a more perm objective holders. And thats just my 1000 point army. For 1500 i throw in my Imperial knight....

[Arkaniel]

Is this your only army?

I always play in different configurations. I have by now, gathered 13000 points of imperial/crimson fist, so I can mix and match.

Fluff wise, I love playing Pedro Kantor with 6x10 Sternguard veterans. That’s a true deathspray to nearly everything, especially with the +1 to wound stratagem for Sternguard. I can wound t8 on 5+ ap-2 with 20 shots per squad and on 4+ Or better against anything under t8. Pedro gives them full re roll to hit.

Aggressors are very, very good, too, and frankly way to cheap for the firepower they have.

Since chapter approved rules, the primaris Inceptor (the jumpers) with Assault bolters are very good, too, and they would also play well in a blood angel list. The aggressors would be too slow for BA

[TheLaughingOne]

Im pretty much just starting tabletop. I collected in the past in prep for playing, but others flaked out after i dropped a couple hundred on space marines. Have a ton of unassembled little guys, something between 80-100. an ironclad dread im converting to switch between ironclad and Librarian, a couple rhinos/razorbacks, a goliath (friend ordered some box set, and got charged, but GW stopped producing, so instead sent him like, 10 goliath rock crushers and a ton of other genestealer cultist stuff, easily worth 3 times what he was going to order) and a ton of misc junk. before this i played shadow wars Armageddon with necromunda rules spliced in.

[Arkaniel]

Two of my crown pieces and a marine just for scale.

[wander]

Hoping tomorrow to get to time to adapt my 1000pts for the double-trouble Helbrutes. I'll post the list when it's done either way for more C&C.

Also, that tank on the left is a beast, Arkaniel!

TLO; An Imperial Knight in 1,500pts is nasty, though I can't speak, it's a high probability I'd put Mortarion in a 1,500 list. 

[Arkaniel]

Where I play superheavies and primarchs are usually only allowed in 3000 point armies. Plus, for superheavies and lord of war the rule is (or used to be) they cannot exceed 25% of your army points

[TheLaughingOne]

Hoping tomorrow to get to time to adapt my 1000pts for the double-trouble Helbrutes. I'll post the list when it's done either way for more C&C.

Also, that tank on the left is a beast, Arkaniel!

TLO; An Imperial Knight in 1,500pts is nasty, though I can't speak, it's a high probability I'd put Mortarion in a 1,500 list. 

Oh, its quite fun, we usually have a mashup, like one game was me and another guy teaming up against one dude, we both had 1500 point armies, he got to build one with 3000 points,

ANd yeah, its a pretty cheap thing to do, but i usually check with the other guy before bringing it in, and let him refit his list before we start.

Where I play superheavies and primarchs are usually only allowed in 3000 point armies. Plus, for superheavies and lord of war the rule is (or used to be) they cannot exceed 25% of your army points

That sounds fair enough, though reading the book for 8th, theres no restriction for using like, superheavy aux. So technically you could do it for a 1000 point army, or any where you have the points.. My setup (thermal cannon, thunderstrike gauntlet, stormspear rocket pod, and melta gun comes out to 493pts), which would leave me rather slim for choices.. though i like the idea of that and a small patrol of guard "dressed" up as a knights personal troops for a 1000 point game.

[TheLaughingOne]

... actually, looking at it my 1500 point army only has 1379! maybe a nice flyer would be a good addition..

heh, each tier is a build up of the first. 1000 is the standard listed, (though i have revamped my 1000 to have sternguard vets instead of just standard tactical. extra heavy bolter and the special issue bolters are nice.. or Inceptors... not sure which i wanna go with...)

1500 adds in the Imperial knight,

2000... maybe a storm raven/storm talon, and some other bibbly bobs and all...

[wander]

Remember Fliers can't claim objectives anymore.

Though tbh, by the sounds of things, it looks like you're going for more competitive alpha striking than holding objectives anyways.

[TheLaughingOne]

Yep, o jective holders would be my librarian as game gets closer to end, start using more offensive powers from seat, my redemptor who shall be bbbbbbbbbbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrttttttttttttttttttttting away, and reivers.

And i think its battle role flyers  (actual plane ones and such) cant hold objectives, not ones who have the keyword, so i could still park my troops ontop and have them camp until game end... though, doesnt sound much like what death company would do...

[Arkaniel]

I don't think most of that stuff will survive long enough to claim objectives at the end. Marines are dropped like flies.

We play with European tournament based house rules, which have far more restrictive list building rules. Like no unit can be taken more than three times in your list, like the 25% super heavy rule etc...

Our club is one of three in my country that provides players for the national team for the European tournament yearly so that's why we keep those rules as house rules for battles.