WH40000 - what's your opinion?

[wander]

I own Black Crusade, there's a gaming group in my city that may or may not be running it, so I am heavily thinking on making a new character for it. I already have a Tzeentch leaning Heretek, though I really do want to make a character leaning more to Nurgle now I'm playing Death Guard and enjoying the Nurgle fluff. Unsure on class for that yet, I may see next week if a game will be going and what would be a good gap to fill in it.

[TheLaughingOne]

Model with boobelies!

Now thats a chaos Daemonette i could get behind....

[wander]

I'mma gonna need some sauce for that. 

[Idej]

Just was curious if anyone had room for a Dark Eldar...Kabalite Warrior or a Wych

[TheLaughingOne]

I'mma gonna need some sauce for that. 

Imgur, https://imgur.com/gallery/XVryU

Just was curious if anyone had room for a Dark Eldar...Kabalite Warrior or a Wych

I could never get why someone would want a dark eldar along on a rogue trader game... Lets hire what is literally the most backstabbing traitorous race that will torture you horribly simply for the LULz. Much less why a dark eldar, who are also some of the most arrogant out there, would work for a rogue trader... Hell, only time i have heard of them Working with anybody at all was the the blood gorgons book, where a chaos marine (undivided/renegade) captured a DE, tortured him creatively (extensive nerve damage ruining his ability to feel pleasure and pain, then threatening to leave him unable to use fingers properly to torture with. was actually a good creative way to go about it), AND THEN the DE only worked with him because "Its better to kill them and be a traitor to the species, then be seen as a captive and therefor weak and deserving of only contempt and torture"

I could see like, a Ranger, Corsair, or maybe even an aspect. Maybe even an exodite with right circumstances. bu DE... Neh.

[wander]

Most funny story I heard about the Dark Eldar was when Urien Rakarth offered his alliance to help the Tau versus Hive Fleet Gorgon... and the blueberries being suitably naive went with Urien's completely innocent, honest 'cultural exchange program' in return for the Dark Eldar help against the Tyranids...

77 Tau from each Caste, including 7 Ethereals were required by Urien to go with him for this cultural exchange...

...Which the Tau actually sent (sans the Ethereals) to Commoragh via Manta...

Urien returned to the battlefields to help the Tau versus the Tyranid thread after, good to his word, this time with a few hundred suspect blue-grey skinned Grotesques... 

When the Tau were told to hand over the 7 Ethereals or 7,077 Tau in their place once the Tyranid forces were defeated, the Tau sent their fleet against Urien, only to find the Dark Eldar weren't there to meet them in battle...

...That's when the Tau got messages that the planet they left, now completely depleted of their defence force for the engagement against Urien's fleet, was completely defenceless and getting raided by the Dark Eldar, which included Vect's own Kabal to boot. By time the Tau got back to the planet, it was completely barren as every living thing there got taken off to Commoragh.

Never trust a Drukhari. 

[TheLaughingOne]

Wander:

The exact story i was thinking of!

I tried to run one rt game.. one dude kept badgering me to let him play.

"oh, he works for the rt anf gets payment by being given the prisoners from battle and any mutants he can capture"

Guy just wouldnt take no for an answer and seemed to think he could trick me into letting him play one and go all backstabby later on...

So i put on my peaked cap, black long coat, got my bolt pistol and did my Emperor damned duty:p

[HairyHeretic]

The only way I could see a DE ending up with a RT would be if they were completely exiled from Commoragh, sentence of death type thing. Maybe the lone survivor from a Kabal that lost hard in the Great Game. He can't stay in Commoragh or any other DE enclave without being hunted down, the Craftworlds are closed to him, so he's staying with the RT until a better prospect comes along. Sure, that might take centuries, but he has those.

[Idej]

The only reason I want to play as one is due to the Ynnari.

I would want to play one who is part of the Ynnari.  Yeah they have issues with trust and cooperation but they are learning albeit slowly.

That is the only reason why I want to do it.  Prior to the Ynnari showing I would have been awww heck no

[HairyHeretic]

I imagine that should be doable with the new 40k RPG that's coming out.

[wander]

The only reason I want to play as one is due to the Ynnari.

I would want to play one who is part of the Ynnari.  Yeah they have issues with trust and cooperation but they are learning albeit slowly.

That is the only reason why I want to do it.  Prior to the Ynnari showing I would have been awww heck no

Aye, I'd wait for the new 40k rpg that's on the way. There's actually going to be an Eldar campaign (where the PCs will play as Eldar) and as far as I know, this rpg is set after the Great Rift has opened, so I expect there may be options for Ynarri aligned Eldar in that.

It all depends on the GMs you find and if they'd allow it, though a fair number of people balk at the Dark Eldar as a PC, from my own experience it's been half not liking them due to their need to torture and maim to survive mechanic, the other being that some treat it like a badly made homebrew class and don't want their game derailed by it.

The Eldar are on the way though in rpg form, so no need to fret. I'd have though honestly that an Eldar Outcast/Ranger (whether an Ynarri one or just Craftworld exile) or a Harlequin would have been a better option to join a Rogue Trader crew honestly. Though Hairy raises a good point on a playable Dark Eldar, the threat of every other Aeldari in the galaxy not taking kindly (to say the least) of a ship shielding a fugitive would really shift the plot and direction of a campaign and kinda make the Dark Eldar in question seem very 'I'm the protagonist!' Mary Sue-like. Could work with some groups, though a fair few won't like the idea of that.

[HairyHeretic]

I wonder if a Dark Eldar could fit into a Black Crusade game easier? As long as there weren't any Slaaneshi players around at any rate :)

[TheGlyphstone]

I think a lot of the objections to a Dark Eldar (they will always betray and backstab you) would also apply to, say, an Ork (who will try to arm-wrestle your command away), but Orks can still work, and I think a DE with the right player and attitude could too. That story about the Tau is, IMO, exactly how a DE should be played - super Lawful Evil, technically keeping to the exact letter of their agreement while being manipulative enough to force the Tau to be the ones to break the bargain and open themselves up to retribution for not upholding their terms. DE aren't compulsive CE backstabbers like Drow, despite otherwise being Dark Elves In Space - they only respect power and ruthlessness, but they actually do have a functional society. An exile of some kind is the most likely scenario for why an Eldar of any kind would voluntarily associate with a mon-Keigh for extended periods, but if that Rogue Trader is capable of murdering said DE for even a hint of disloyalty and perfectly willing to do so at the drop of a hat, they fit into the DE's societal paradigm.

Much like Evil PCs in any game, you rarely want to risk them on randoms you don't already know the RP chops of. But with someone you can count on to do it right and shape their character to the benefit of the group/game, they can do just fine.

[wander]

That is exceptionally well put, Glyph. I totally agree with that viewpoint now you've brought that up. Also yes, I super agree that Evil PCs work best with someone you know will do it right and play to the character and not be 'chaotic stupid' or 'stupid evil' for the lulz.

I also think that perhaps in that aspect, they may be a fairly good add for a Black Crusade crew. It's in the lore that some Drukhari Wyches got on like a house on fire with some Khorne Berserkers (now that's a FUN* party -both senses of the word- I'd love to see! xD )

[Idej]

I think I may wait for the new RPG to come out.

But I do like how those Dark Eldar who have joined the Ynnari are struggling with fighting their way of life but at the same time contributing to the tactics and warfare of the Ynnari.

Case in point the events of Ghost Warrior gives stuff like that.  I know it sounds weird but I want to make a group of Dark Eldar who have begun to understand the concept of loyalty and how there can be greater rewards for it than what they used to do.  They are also part of the Ynnari.

[Cold Heritage]

It might just be the memes overtaking me but I have an easier time seeing an Ork not crash a game with no survivors than a Dark Eldar.

[TheGlyphstone]

Probably the memes, or at least the fact that Orks are generally played for comedic violence whereas Dark Eldar are horror violence. But both would be equally unplayable if you were 100% true to their supposed - that is to say, meme-d - psychologies - an Ork would never accept a Rogue Trader who wasn't larger and more heavily muscled than itself. Since humans cannot reflexively grow additional muscles in response to a potential leadership challenge, it would be a recurring cycle of endless PvP ending in one PC's eventual death.

[TheLaughingOne]

Freebooters. Ork pirates that hire out to rogue traders, charists, inqusition, and even occasionally guard for a good fight and first pick at gubbinz. Feral orks or most clans would be an issue, but freebooters arent to much an issue.

Just be explained that by following this guy there is a chance ti fight big horrible things and lots of loot and bitz to take after.

Yeah, still some issues with them being orks, but a thousand times less then a dark eldar.

[TheGlyphstone]

Freebooters. Ork pirates that hire out to rogue traders, charists, inqusition, and even occasionally guard for a good fight and first pick at gubbinz. Feral orks or most clans would be an issue, but freebooters arent to much an issue.

Just be explained that by following this guy there is a chance ti fight big horrible things and lots of loot and bitz to take after.

Yeah, still some issues with them being orks, but a thousand times less then a dark eldar.

See, but a 'true' Ork would never follow a leader who was physically weaker than them regardless of whatever loot is in store, any more than a 'true' dark eldar would not backstab someone at the first opportunity despite it being a stupid and fatal mistake to do so when isolated from any support and surrounded by other humans. My point is that either can be played unreasonably and disruptively if you choose to focus on the disruptive and unreasonable interpretations of their attitude, but have plenty of leeway for a functional party member if you make an effort do do that instead.

[wander]

This was my point on 'chaotic stupid' and 'stupid evil' characters. As mentioned, an Ork will generally be happy to roll with a crew if promised a good ruck and lootin' to come from said scrapping, the Dark Eldar work less for RT, though if shown that backstabbery will be followed up on by merciless repurcussion, they would fall in line.

True if an Ork feels they can do more scrappin' and lootin' off their own back, they'll challenge the captain, though a regular dumbass Boy will be happy long as he doesn't get bored. The Drukhari are more likely to fall in line with a leader of any size or shape, long as fear and respect is earned.

[TheLaughingOne]

problem is for the dark eldar, they consider everything beneath them. In said book the DE traitor took every chance he could to try and betray the MC, or Anybody else he came across. even knowing that getting caught, or if the chaos marine even suspected, he wouldnt kill him, but maim him to the point where he couldnt torture others, or even feel pain himself, even threats of Giving him to a daemon of slaanesh.

Second problem for dark eldar is the fear of warp travel. Even on a human ship with a gellar field they tend to freak out. the Macharius book series, dark eldar raid a ship, and soon as they get the gellar field working again and get ready to transit to warp ALL of the dark eldar paniced, flat out pants shitting paniced, including their leader, an archon, ran and resorted to basicly kicking the legs out from under his troops from behind to delay imperial forces from stopping him before they transited.
this one im not completely sure on, but ships that have dark eldar tend to have rougher rides through the warp then normal, daemons sensing the unprotected and delicious eldar soul onboard and scratching at the field like...

[wander]

Commoragh is in the Webway, so that's how Drukhari usually travel.

As for the backstabbiness, in a similar fashion to fantasy dark elves they pretty much have to enact cruelty and torture to keep their souls in their bodies (for dark elves though they do this for eternal youth than soul loss). It's against a Drukhari nature though on the whole I would think, to go against that when being threatened to be taken by Slaanesh, when the whole reason (or let's say the main reason, a fair few Drukhari do torture for the sheer lulz) that they're so cruel and victimising of other species is to keep Slaanesh off their back.

It's like being told... "Don't do that bad thing and you'll be spanked anyway."

[TheGlyphstone]

problem is for the dark eldar, they consider everything beneath them. In said book the DE traitor took every chance he could to try and betray the MC, or Anybody else he came across. even knowing that getting caught, or if the chaos marine even suspected, he wouldnt kill him, but maim him to the point where he couldnt torture others, or even feel pain himself, even threats of Giving him to a daemon of slaanesh.

That's why we're saying you have to speak their cultural language. Offer them something they want, and make it very clear that acting against you will be a fatal mistake. Humans might be beneath them as a species, but you now personally occupy a slot in their worldview that they can rationalize obedience to if working with you benefits them. If it doesn't, they would just leave, rather than risk their immortality by screwing with a short-lived human for funzies. The DE in that book was acting exactly how a DE should not, because it makes no sense as even you recognize - it doesn't even fit their official codex fluff. Presumably the author also just thought they were Space Drow despite the lack of a Space Lolth to make them be dumb.

Second problem for dark eldar is the fear of warp travel. Even on a human ship with a gellar field they tend to freak out. the Macharius book series, dark eldar raid a ship, and soon as they get the gellar field working again and get ready to transit to warp ALL of the dark eldar paniced, flat out pants shitting paniced, including their leader, an archon, ran and resorted to basicly kicking the legs out from under his troops from behind to delay imperial forces from stopping him before they transited.
this one im not completely sure on, but ships that have dark eldar tend to have rougher rides through the warp then normal, daemons sensing the unprotected and delicious eldar soul onboard and scratching at the field like...

That's an entirely different issue, and one that poses RP potential for the DE player rather than being a problem for the group. I'm not aware of any effects of an Eldar inside a Gellar Field.

[TheLaughingOne]

Ok. Again, chaos marine was speaking their cultural language quite well. Not only did he make it clear it wasnt a Fatal just a mistake, but that he would...

A. Break him in ways that would leave him completely helpless and unable to "Feed", and displayed how he would do it by beating him like a rag doll.
B. Promised that if he did help him without being a backstabbing bitch, would be rewarded, and better then he would have if he stayed with the dark eldar.
C. Made the threat of giving him directly to a Slaanesh daemon. Which is pretty much the most absolutely dire threat you could give one of the dark eldar.

And remember, Fatal isnt quite to dark eldar. If they can get enough scraps they can regrow lost People. Haemonculi have a way of respawning guys if they have enough scraps, though the process is made of hurt, suck, pain, suck and hurty pain. Granted, its a limited time before its open season on their souls.... But it makes me wonder if they could "donate" a sufficent amount of "material" to be held some where, and then regrown using that when they die and their remains cant be retrieved.

Its a part of what they are that they are betraying bastards, especially considering that even their own kind are constantly on guard of those below them, or above them, or unrelated to them, trying to set them up for something horrible, Just because. Throw in their arrogance that all species are below them, of course they are going to think they could get away clean with murdering and butchering crew members or whatever. They dont see humans as equal, no matter the situation, for them it would be like one of us stuck on a ship with a bunch of capuchin monkeys trying to boss you around. would you follow their orders if you consider them no threat? And if they did become a threat, would you just blindly accept, or find a way to eliminate them. These arent people, they are aliens who view ALL things as being below them, other living beings are nothing more then sacks of whimpering meat for them to torture, and they enjoy it like a junkie enjoys their fix.

And its not so much that they effect the gellar field, as that their presence draws more daemons, they are a bright shiny sign saying "Free Top grade actual Wagyu Beef Prime rib!" on the ship. They draw more attention to it, and while unlikely to pierce it, i cant imagine it being a comfortable situation in their eyes. Less being in a shark cage with great whites around, and more like "wrapped in plastic wrap while megaladons charge straight for you".

[Idej]

Well that Dark Eldar is an idiot then of he did that.  In that situation I would have listened and be patient to see if the chaos marine was to fulfill his end of the bargain.  For Commorragh to even continue to exist there has to be structure or things wouldn't work.  I viewed that the Dark Eldar are less like Drow and more like Hutts.