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Author Topic: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran  (Read 6186 times)

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Offline SerephinoTopic starter

Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« on: September 08, 2010, 09:00:10 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100907/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning

Yay, more idiots! *rolls eyes*  What scares me is that these people breed.  Seriously, what is burning a book going to do besides piss a few people off? 

I honestly don't think one incident of holy book burning will stir things up in Iraq more.  Though the article says they're being told not to because it might, and that makes them even more stupid because then they're knowingly risking the lives of the soldiers that are still over there in the name of Patriotism.  *headdesk*

And personally, I think the whole Christians vs. Muslims vs. Jews is stupid to begin with.  They all claim to be descended from Abraham, so they're all brothers and sisters.  Why fight? 

Offline Sabby

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2010, 09:27:36 AM »
Why fight?

Because humans are short sighted and believe their own excuses.

Offline Nyarly

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2010, 09:29:58 AM »
Because humans are short sighted and believe their own excuses.
Probably the truest statement I've heard around this board.

Offline Hemingway

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2010, 09:37:57 AM »
I'm against burning any book, out of respect for the written word, but I would happily show up to this guy's Qur'an burning with a stack of bibles and setting them on fire right on his lawn. They're all religions of the devil as far as I'm concerned.

Offline Jaybee

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2010, 09:58:24 AM »
As a Christian, I find the greatest tradegy is this; extremists like this moron are turning more people AWAY from Christ.  I think he needs to go out and actually TALK to a few moslems.

I find extremes of antisocial behaviour distasteful regardless of whatever religion is used as an excuse for them, but it's particularly galling when my own faith is misappropriated so, which is properly one of love.

Now, we live in society of freedoms; is it his freedom of action to burn the qu'aran?  Yep.  Is it my freedom of expression to call him foolish for doing so?  Yes again.

Offline SerephinoTopic starter

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2010, 10:10:21 AM »
Because humans are short sighted and believe their own excuses.

True....

Offline RubySlippers

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2010, 11:41:36 AM »
The media is the problem they could have ignored this and made it a minor bite on Associated Press and in tabloids but they are giving his act all the publicity they couldn't get otherwise - free.

So who is the idiot him for doing this or the media for giving him all the free hype?

Offline TheLegionary

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Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2010, 12:16:04 PM »
One thing that perplexes me is why the pastor does not move to Afheganistan to convert Muslims into Chrystians?

Offline Will

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2010, 01:58:43 PM »
The media is the problem they could have ignored this and made it a minor bite on Associated Press and in tabloids but they are giving his act all the publicity they couldn't get otherwise - free.

So who is the idiot him for doing this or the media for giving him all the free hype?

Or the consumers who make it financially worthwhile for the media to cover it?  :P

Online Scott

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2010, 05:34:10 PM »
One thing that perplexes me is why the pastor does not move to Afheganistan to convert Muslims into Chrystians?

He's like PETA,

It's much easier to throw blood on a supermodel for wearing fur, than is is to throw blood on a biker gang for wearing leather.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2010, 05:56:43 PM »
Saw this on the news tonight and now it's being posted here.

Why, why are we giving this guy attention? This is not news, it's bigotry and it needs to not get nationwide press.

Offline sleepingferret

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Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2010, 07:11:22 PM »
Saw this on the news tonight and now it's being posted here.

Why, why are we giving this guy attention? This is not news, it's bigotry and it needs to not get nationwide press.

It already got nationwide press, which is the problem.  Whether he actually burns the book(s) isn't really the issue. (Although I find it disrespectful to be burning a religious book)

The mere fact that this issue got press coverage already put lives in danger, which is what is the real tragedy and should be the focus of people's primary outrage.  One single person, basically just stepped up and said come on Bin Laden let's see you come over here and blow something else up on 9/11 (or see how many of our troops you can kill over in Afghanistan or Irag).  A simple pastor, basically and probably unknowingly basically issued a direct challenge to enemies of not just the United States; but to innocent people everywhere.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2010, 07:17:36 PM »
People are responsible for their own actions, and this man is not responsible for others' actions any more than flag-burners can be held responsible for Gitmo. His freedom of speech and religion gives him the right to burn whatever the hell he wants so long as he makes sure he's got burn permits and whatnot.

But they don't have to stage a news crew when he does it.

Offline Brandon

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2010, 07:24:20 PM »
There are a ton of high standing government officials in the US who have condemned it and a few international powers. Even other christian groups like the Vatican have made statements against the burning of any holy book

If you like check out the list

Quote
It's increasingly looking as though the only spiritual or political figure who will not denounce Florida pastor Terry Jones' plan to commemorate Sept. 11 by burning copies of the Quran is Jones himself. Wednesday brings the news that even the church Jones founded in Germany in the 1980s  is condemning the upcoming Quran-burning at his small place of worship in Gainesville, Fla.

"We are surprised and shocked at the extreme radicalism being displayed [by Jones] right now on this issue," Stephan Baar of the Christian Community of Cologne told the Associated Press. The 60-member church kicked out Jones in 2008. Jones' estranged daughter says the eviction arose from her father's reported penchant for dipping into the church's till to pay his own expenses.

Jones' wish to burn hundreds of copies of the Islamic holy book has drawn a wide chorus of protests. Gen. David Petraeus said on Monday the action could hurt U.S. troops, while hundreds of Afghans protested in Kabul and burned Jones in effigy. The Gainesville Fire Department has denied Jones a permit for the event -- but the pastor says he plans to go ahead with it anyway.

Indeed, so many high-profile people have spoken out against the plan that they may now outnumber the fringe church's 50-member congregation, raising the question of whether the condemnations are magnifying the cause of a very small group of extremists.

Here's a partial list of people who have condemned the planned bonfire:

    * "It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort," top commander in Afghanistan Gen. David Petraeus told the media. "It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems.

    * As "an act of patriotism," the media should not cover the burning, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said. She also said, "It's regrettable that a pastor in Gainesville, Florida, with a church of no more than 50 people can make this outrageous and distressful, disgraceful plan, and get the world's attention":

    * The terrorist attacks of 9/11, says the Vatican, "cannot be counteracted by an outrageous and grave gesture against a book considered sacred by a religious community."

    * Attorney General Eric Holder called the plan "idiotic and dangerous."
    * Presumed presidential candidate Mitt Romney told Politico
      "Burning the Quran is wrong on every level. It puts troops in danger, and it violates a founding principle of our republic."

[Photos: Quran-burning debate]

    * "I do not think well of the idea of burning anybody's Koran, Bible, Book of Mormon or anything else," Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour told reporters. "I don't think there is any excuse for it. I don't think it's a good idea."

    * "Any type of activity like that that puts our troops in harm's way would be a concern," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Tuesday.

    * "I appeal to people who are planning to burn the Quran to reconsider and drop their plans because they are inconsistent with American values and, as General Petraeus has warned, threatening to America's military," Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman said in a statement.

[Related: Who is Terry Jones?]

    * House Minority Leader John Boehner spoke out against the event, comparing it to the planned Islamic center near Ground Zero. "Well, listen, I just think it's not wise to do this in the face of what our country represents. ... Just because you have the right to do something in America, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do."

    * New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg called it "boneheaded and wrong" but said the protesters are protected by the First Amendment. "He has a right to do it," he said.

    * Actress Angelina Jolie spoke out against the plan while visiting Pakistan to raise awareness about the devastating floods. "I have hardly the words that somebody would do that to somebody's religious book," she said:

We are all Americans in this country and that includes Muslim Americans. If we dont stand up for our aquantences and business partners, friends and family, brothers and sisters now, possibly when they need us to the most, why should they stand up for us in the future? American's need to make it a point to show idiots like this guy that this kind of thing isnt ok. It should not be tolerated for any reason, I dont care if its the Bible, the Quran, or the Kama Sutra. While we can not stop him, we can sure as hell make sure that we say this kind of behavoir is morally wrong

Edit: Was I the only one to notice that he mispelled Quran on his billboard?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 07:27:17 PM by Brandon »

Offline sleepingferret

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Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2010, 07:29:01 PM »
People are responsible for their own actions, and this man is not responsible for others' actions any more than flag-burners can be held responsible for Gitmo. His freedom of speech and religion gives him the right to burn whatever the hell he wants so long as he makes sure he's got burn permits and whatnot.

People are responsible for their own actions.  And yes he does the right to burn whatever he wants, same as you or I.  And quite frankly if I had enough justification to protest the government, I'd burn a few flags to make a statement.

But again I think this is more about the current state of affairs worldwide than simple beliefs of burning "symbols" either religious or political is right or wrong; even in protest.  This may not be World War II (and we're not after Hitler and the Nazis), but for all intents and purposes the "good" people of the world are at war (with terrorism).  Thus, in order to protect the very freedoms we hold dear to our hearts, we sometimes have to sacrifice some of those freedoms to protect not only ourselves, but the soldiers who are fighting to protect our way of life.

Offline Trieste

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Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2010, 07:33:46 PM »
Godwin's law says you lose. Ahem.  ::)

This church is nondenominational. The Vatican has no place telling them what to do.

This man is not, as far as I could tell, on active duty. The military has no place telling him what to do.

This man is following a tenet of his religion, hateful as it is. The government has no place telling him what to do.

He has the constitutional right to be doing what he is doing. I don't like it. I don't condone it. But I wish the media wouldn't promote it, also. However, if he's going to get so much attention, the patriotic thing would be to form a huge circle around the bonfire, link hands, and start singing in Arabic.

Offline Will

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2010, 07:38:29 PM »
People are responsible for their own actions.  And yes he does the right to burn whatever he wants, same as you or I.  And quite frankly if I had enough justification to protest the government, I'd burn a few flags to make a statement.

But again I think this is more about the current state of affairs worldwide than simple beliefs of burning "symbols" either religious or political is right or wrong; even in protest.  This may not be World War II (and we're not after Hitler and the Nazis), but for all intents and purposes the "good" people of the world are at war (with terrorism).  Thus, in order to protect the very freedoms we hold dear to our hearts, we sometimes have to sacrifice some of those freedoms to protect not only ourselves, but the soldiers who are fighting to protect our way of life.

I cannot bring myself to agree with this.  Even if I could, I wouldn't say this is a situation where it applies.  Wiretapping, detaining suspected terrorists, these things are arguably necessary in a wartime situation.  But curbing someone's freedom of speech, simply because it might offend someone?  That is ludicrous, and if it ever happened, I would be on my way out of the country post-haste.

Offline sleepingferret

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Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2010, 07:43:00 PM »
It isn't about being offense or not.  It's about what the implications and reactions of the terrorists like Bin Laden (who claim to be acting in accordance with the tenants of Islam) will be.  It's about how many lives could possibly be at stake (or already at stake, since this had already hit the media...even though the event hasn't happened yet).  The mere thought of such a thing may be enough to anger the wrong person.

Offline Brandon

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2010, 07:45:56 PM »
I dont recall saying they were catholic Trieste. I was pointing out that even people with similar beliefs think he's an idiot. Besides the Vatican is a large member in international politics and they condemn any action that is  morally wrong from their point of view.

Although I will agree, we should go over and form a circle around his bonfire, preventing him from burning anything. While the government cant step in there is nothing stopping the average American from doing anything in this situation and facing the consequences for it later.

Another thought is, I read somewhere that he didnt get a permit for his bonfire yet. Did that change?

Also, and its hard to believe Im about to say this, but I 100% agree with Will.


Offline Trieste

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Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2010, 07:48:47 PM »
It isn't about being offense or not.  It's about what the implications and reactions of the terrorists like Bin Laden (who claim to be acting in accordance with the tenants of Islam) will be.  It's about how many lives could possibly be at stake (or already at stake, since this had already hit the media...even though the event hasn't happened yet).  The mere thought of such a thing may be enough to anger the wrong person.

But there are dozens of 'wrong people', and not all of them are Islamic. Again, these 'wrong people' (who are essentially alarmist shadow-men as far as I'm concerned) are responsible for their own actions.

I dont recall saying they were catholic Trieste. I was pointing out that even people with similar beliefs think he's an idiot. Besides the Vatican is a large member in international politics and they condemn any action that is  morally wrong from their point of view.

I didn't say they were, Brandon. I was pointing out that since this guy is not Catholic, the Vatican has really nothing to do with the man and should butt out.

Offline Brandon

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2010, 07:55:50 PM »
I didn't say they were, Brandon. I was pointing out that since this guy is not Catholic, the Vatican has really nothing to do with the man and should butt out.

Thats fine, we can disagree.

Offline SerephinoTopic starter

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2010, 07:59:45 PM »
I agree that it probably wouldn't be such a huge deal if it hadn't hit the media.  No one but his neighbors would have known, and there would be no one to anger.

But unfortunately the whole world knows now.  I got the article in my email, and then saw it on the Today show.  And even if people are responsible for their own actions, if all this press causes someone to do something it's still on this moron's shoulders at least partially because it would be a reaction to him.  He is starting the chain of events.

Offline Will

Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2010, 08:03:34 PM »
It isn't about being offense or not.  It's about what the implications and reactions of the terrorists like Bin Laden (who claim to be acting in accordance with the tenants of Islam) will be.  It's about how many lives could possibly be at stake (or already at stake, since this had already hit the media...even though the event hasn't happened yet).  The mere thought of such a thing may be enough to anger the wrong person.

Call me skeptical, but I really doubt this particular incident is going to be the difference between Al Qaeda  attacking the US and not.  I'm pretty sure they'll take any opportunity they can get to strike, and they have plenty of material for their recruiting propaganda.  We made sure of that. :P

They aren't waiting around on guys like Terry Jones to give them the moral high ground, and they don't need his help to get more people on their side.  That being the case, I can't see any reason whatsoever for me to have my freedoms impinged.


EDIT: Oh, and believe me Brandon, I'm just as surprised as you are! ::)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 08:05:28 PM by Will »

Offline Trieste

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Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2010, 08:05:53 PM »
Thats fine, we can disagree.

You're quite gracious.

I agree that it probably wouldn't be such a huge deal if it hadn't hit the media.  No one but his neighbors would have known, and there would be no one to anger.

But unfortunately the whole world knows now.  I got the article in my email, and then saw it on the Today show.  And even if people are responsible for their own actions, if all this press causes someone to do something it's still on this moron's shoulders at least partially because it would be a reaction to him.  He is starting the chain of events.


Where was the Qur'an burning ceremony before 11th September in 2001? There wasn't any. There wasn't any anti-Islamic rhetoric, nor any widely-publicized opposition to a Muslim community center in New York.

Assuming that the US is responsible for attacks like that smacks of victim-blaming. We humans like to confuse correlation with causation, and we like to assign neat little cause-and-effect relationships to everything. When it comes to little things, we might often be correct, but when it comes to the larger scale of things, we are not that accurate. We didn't cause the original attacks, and unless this pastor is about to go hijack his own jetliner, he can't be held responsible for future attacks.

I'll reiterate that I don't like his message, but whipping up a media frenzy by telling us that Qur'an-burning will bring The Axis of Evil (or whatever they're calling it these days) down on our heads is pure, unadulterated scaremongering.

Offline sleepingferret

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Re: Florida Pastor want to burn the Quran
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2010, 08:11:56 PM »
.
Call me skeptical, but I really doubt this particular incident is going to be the difference between Al Qaeda  attacking the US and not.  I'm pretty sure they'll take any opportunity they can get to strike, and they have plenty of material for their recruiting propaganda.  We made sure of that. :P

They aren't waiting around on guys like Terry Jones to give them the moral high ground, and they don't need his help to get more people on their side.  That being the case, I can't see any reason whatsoever for me to have my freedoms impinged.

No, you're correct the Al Qaeda don't really need "recruitment" help or really any more reasons to attack us.  But this is yet another reason to add to the long list they already have.  Adding fuel to the fire so to speak, which could possibly only increase their recruitment efforts and increases the likely hood of them actually attacking us again.

Again do they really need a reason? No...but did another log just get tossed onto the fire for them?  Yep.  And that is where the problem lies.

We need to stamp their "fire" out.  I could careless about some bonfire of burning bibles or qurans (or any other holy book for that matter); it's not my business and I'm not there support it nor am I sending letters of support to said people.  So let the books burn, for all that matters...but the other "fire" needs to be put out, not fed