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Author Topic: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Basically Full)  (Read 17675 times)

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Offline Latooni Subota

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #175 on: August 07, 2010, 01:22:58 AM »
Now now Katina, you know the Imperial Line is just BARELY imperfect. At least until you know who heads home, and her baby shows up. :3

It's been a long time since I did some hardcore dipping, so we'll see if my build actually ends up any good later on! Half-Nymph Bard 5/Battle Dancer 1/Iaijutsu Master 2//Swordsage 10. The single most un-asian swordmaster ever. HER ETERNAL RIVAL IS THE SHIRAGIKU! Or something. Time to fiddle with fluff and change my concept a hundred more times. :D

Offline WyzardWhately

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #176 on: August 07, 2010, 01:23:12 AM »
I have, to my great satisfaction, finally settled on a combination I like well enough to sit down and crunch the numbers.  I just wasn't getting anything I liked out of having a class in addition to Wizard or Psion, so...you mentioned upthread we could put something from Savage Species in there, so I'm going to be playing an Astral Deva/Wizard.

Character-wise, since your cosmology is so different, I think he is simply the child of a some weakly-godlike Archangel and a mortal.  He was groomed from childhood to transmigrate to the higher planes and do abstract spiritual stuff for eternity, but rejected that life in order to screw around the material world, get into trouble, and be an Adventurer(!).  He has more recently settled down as head of a University, where he's considered something of an academic rock-star.  His history as a tomb-robbing arcanist has made him far more comfortable with casual violence than most sages, and he also suffers from a slight tendency to view life as a game that he plays for fun.

He's arrogant, overconfident, and has total faith that any problem can be solved with sufficient application of magic, elbow-grease, and bullshit. 

I am suddenly twice as excited about my character as I have been with any build I've even considered.  Awesome, the game finally clicked for me.

Addendum: I am going to pay out for a Lyre of Building and I should have the Fabricate spell.  Anyone who wants deep discounts on their stronghold construction can make a big donation to the university fund (I figure we can split the difference on how much money you save.  There will also be a plaque!  Real bronze!  With serifs!) 

Offline Latooni Subota

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #177 on: August 07, 2010, 01:25:39 AM »
Haha, that was my idea WW, the Lyre of Building that is. You gotta admit, it's a GOOD idea. Especially if you're a talented enough musician to play the thing for extended periods of time. :D

Offline WyzardWhately

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #178 on: August 07, 2010, 01:26:56 AM »
Haha, that was my idea WW, the Lyre of Building that is. You gotta admit, it's a GOOD idea. Especially if you're a talented enough musician to play the thing for extended periods of time. :D

I'm sorry.  I hadn't seen anyone else post about it, I didn't mean to bite your style. 

Offline TheGlyphstoneTopic starter

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #179 on: August 07, 2010, 01:27:46 AM »
Eh, I was just going to hire NPC wizards. Since all my stronghold spaces are Fancy, it costs me 560GP per space to get Fabricates cast, and I save another 20% on each such space. EDIT: Except I'll probably take you up on that now, since I re-read it and I only get the discounts if the casters work for free....I can't get 9th level Thralls to cast Fabricate. Now I'm trying to find the part in the SBG that describes how much money a Lyre saves you. Double darn....my labor is already free, so I wouldn't get any benefit from the Lyre. Oh well.

Now I'm not certain which is weirder: optimizing Sexual Prowess in my other Elliquiy game, or optimizing stronghold discounts here.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 01:35:53 AM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline ff

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #180 on: August 07, 2010, 01:29:59 AM »
You get Leadership for free anyways.

Cohorts are not gestalt, which I should have clarified for Glyph.

Cohorts that you actually stat out and take with you get NPC wealth.  Followers really don't need to be statted out any time soon, but they'll get NPC wealth if their stats ever become relevant.

Aha, thanks.

Quote
Regarding your character, she's certainly... interesting.  Something about her family would be relevant (when a dragon loves a tree very much...), particularly you're using the combination of templates to represent some custom being unto itself.

A literal 'family tree'.  ;D

I certainly plan to 'flesh' (haha) out her bio more soon. The first bio I wrote had her as a child and emissary of the agents of Tamara, the draconic pantheon deity of life, love, light and mercy; then I changed it to a more nature-oriented thing as per the no god thing.

If you ever played FF12, there was a plant-esque dragon in there with barky scales and pollen-cloud breath, which I thought was neat, and part of how I got the idea. She's a descendant of a dragon and celestial and humans, with the woodling template being ceremonial, but I had also been thinking abtou her having a Dryad ancestor (Fey are my favorite type), so I think I'll go with that instead (esp. as I was thinking of starting Half-Fey Template Class if she levels, which has some redundancies with the other templates but is cute, and also has some synergies) .

Quote
Also, the line between good and evil is not so clear.  It's not a case where shiny dragons are good and non-shiny dragons are evil.  Among, say, red dragons, you can have good, bad, bored, devoted, apathetic, curious, and what have you.  "Slaughter the greenskins because they're evil" doesn't hold here, and even some demons might ultimately be at least stable enough to be socially beneficial.

I'll change the wording later then, t omake it less about good and evil and more about dragons to scour the countryside (burning everything up, eat all the large game and leave none left to reproduce) vs those who 'manage' it.

Quote
FF can make her cohort as a Paladin mount as part of that feature.

I was wondering about that (since it'd be cumbersome to keep track of both a special mount and cohort)...so are you suggesting combining them into one creature? Maybe something, like, add the special mount abilities to the cohort - except the extra Animal HD, probably, since it won't be an animal, and HD would increase its level, which is already checked by the Cohort rules. So the pegasus would get Empathic Link, for example.
[/quote]

Offline WyzardWhately

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #181 on: August 07, 2010, 01:37:14 AM »
Damn, now I feel like I'm biting FF's style.  I may adjust his origin story somewhat to be more differentiated from hers.

Offline Katina Tarask

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #182 on: August 07, 2010, 01:43:06 AM »
Well, with an angel (or not) and a half-orgy Paladin, I'd say this alliance has become rather more... odd.
Now now Katina, you know the Imperial Line is just BARELY imperfect. At least until you know who heads home, and her baby shows up. :3
Oh, the line's still perfect, and when they try and put little bro on the throne, they'll find out it's staying that way.  Or else. :P

(Note: Latooni's in the other game in this world.  Her character is the heir to Shihou's throne, and she basically just impregnated Cthulhu, making her Cthulhubaby her successor.)
I was wondering about that (since it'd be cumbersome to keep track of both a special mount and cohort)...so are you suggesting combining them into one creature? Maybe something, like, add the special mount abilities to the cohort - except the extra Animal HD, probably, since it won't be an animal, and HD would increase its level, which is already checked by the Cohort rules. So the pegasus would get Empathic Link, for example.
Hrm.  I thought that's what you were asking about to begin with.

There are rules in the DMG that let a Paladin with Leadership can treat her cohort as her mount, with full mount abilities (though the mount gets an extra +2 LA).  So, a Pegasus would be ECL7 if you made it your mount (3 HD, LA2, plus an extra 2 LA to apply mount abilities), and you should have a level to play with if you have a Leadership score high enough to net you an 8th-level cohort.  It would get all benefits, including hit die.

Also, a Paladin mount isn't an animal by default; it becomes a magical beast.

Offline TheGlyphstoneTopic starter

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #183 on: August 07, 2010, 02:05:59 AM »
So an angel, a half-orgy paladin, and an evil telepath walk into a bar...

The telepath's bar, that is. ;D I'm investing to buy a Fancy Tavern and a Fancy Shop in the city. In theory, they net me 500gp/year....I'll make more money than that in a day adventuring. :) But it's fun and flavorful*.

*no guarantees said flavor is not after-effects of drugs that penalize Will saves. >:)

My stronghold itself is a mansion/small castle in Soldia. It's on a high coastal cliff overlooking the interior sea - the only access routes are straight up the cliffs or along a steep, sloping path up the hill from the mainland (Natural Feature inhibiting movement/attack). At the base of the cliffs are a series of small but very lucrative gem mines, that a portion of my thralls work to excavate and prepare for sale. About a third of my believers run a good-sized tavern I own in the nearby city, along with the shop that sells my mined gems and jewels.



EDIT: Okay, potential munchkinry here, so DM consideration needed. If I know Psionic Fabricate, I can get huge discounts on my stronghold, as noted earlier. Problem is, I need Expanded Knowledge to get it, since it's a Shaper power.  I could have taken said feat, built my stronghold with it, then had used Psychic Reformation bought from an NPC psion to retrain said Expanded Knowledge into the Extend Power that I actually have currently. It'd cost me 530GP, which I can afford, but it'd require the approval of an NPC of at least 9th level who can manifest Psychic Reformation on me.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 02:26:09 AM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline ff

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #184 on: August 07, 2010, 02:29:02 AM »
There are rules in the DMG that let a Paladin with Leadership can treat her cohort as her mount, with full mount abilities (though the mount gets an extra +2 LA).  So, a Pegasus would be ECL7 if you made it your mount (3 HD, LA2, plus an extra 2 LA to apply mount abilities), and you should have a level to play with if you have a Leadership score high enough to net you an 8th-level cohort.  It would get all benefits, including hit die.

Ok, thanks, done, and adjusted char's skills to include Ride. (Pegasus is 4 HD, but will probably do cleric or paladin on a level up.)

Quote
Also, a Paladin mount isn't an animal by default; it becomes a magical beast.

Yes, I just meant that the extra HD a paladin's special mount gets are Animal HD (d8, 3/4ds bab, good Fort and Ref,) or so I always gathered from the entry.

Offline ff

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #185 on: August 07, 2010, 02:30:33 AM »
Damn, now I feel like I'm biting FF's style.  I may adjust his origin story somewhat to be more differentiated from hers.

I don't mind.

It's funny how PCs usually encounter groups of similar NPCs, but the quintessential D&D is that the PCs themselves should be as motley and diverse a bunch as possible (both for roleplaying reasons and effective party synergy).

Offline WyzardWhately

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #186 on: August 07, 2010, 02:33:38 AM »
Well, there shouldn't be a lot of similarity in play.  My character isn't actually the kind of mighty champion of good and justice that yours is...he's more of an action-packed scholar with wings, who often enjoys the adulation his appearance garners him.  I mean, if people assume that he's the best thing since sliced bread because he's an "angel," he's rarely going to disabuse them of the notion.

Offline ff

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #187 on: August 07, 2010, 02:35:17 AM »
It shouldn't matter too much - usually, when I play weird races, my PC doesn't go around defining themselves by it and trying to make sure others notice it; just think of her as a nature-worshipping dryad-like paladin with wings. And really bad breath occasionally.

Offline PhantomPistoleer

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #188 on: August 07, 2010, 02:39:43 AM »
Katina, could you post a comprehensive list of links for info in your world?  And, where do you see a benevolent artificer/factotum ruling?  I'm envisioning an island city state with a large working population, elemental-powered public transportation, large civil sector universities and a larger-than-normal middle class.

Offline ff

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #189 on: August 07, 2010, 02:48:50 AM »
The link:

http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?t=91768

It looks like the world does have gods, sort of - "The world has no active "gods," per se, though there are extremely powerful beings that others draw power from. " - i.e. you don't use the word 'god', but, well maybe I'll call them Power as DnD gods often are. It also says  what source the PC draws their power from (divine abilities etc.) is up to the player. But I got the impression from Katina's feedback that I was discouraged from having a god/Power for the character or their paladin abilities, maybe?

Offline ff

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #190 on: August 07, 2010, 02:56:26 AM »
In terms of the 6 nations, I might lean toward Agnis and it seems interesting, adventur-y and has a high draconic population.

(Soldia is paladinic in a sense,  but it mentions not liking other races and I get the sense that sort of quasifascist Lawful Stupid motif with an oppressive church-state-royalty system - i.e. less flexibility in running one's own Leadership-dom within the cit.)

Really though, I'll likely just go with whatever others are (it seems if everyone has a stronghold, and they're far apart, it might devolve into a parallel series of solo quests.)

Say - where are the pretty forests? The island nation seems fun if the distanances between islands are such that my pegasus can island-hop safely (i.e. without tiring first).
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 03:07:41 AM by ff »

Offline PhantomPistoleer

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #191 on: August 07, 2010, 03:00:36 AM »
Hmm.

Is it possible for a son of a Noble Knight, whose older brother became a Noble Knight, to become a White Knight and then something of a duke or earl?

Offline Marie Reynolds

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #192 on: August 07, 2010, 06:38:36 AM »
Hi dont want to seem like a pest as Ixy has dropped out if you need another pc id be willing to step out. Thanks for your consideration have a great day.

Offline Katina Tarask

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #193 on: August 07, 2010, 11:13:56 AM »
EDIT: Okay, potential munchkinry here, so DM consideration needed. If I know Psionic Fabricate, I can get huge discounts on my stronghold, as noted earlier. Problem is, I need Expanded Knowledge to get it, since it's a Shaper power.  I could have taken said feat, built my stronghold with it, then had used Psychic Reformation bought from an NPC psion to retrain said Expanded Knowledge into the Extend Power that I actually have currently. It'd cost me 530GP, which I can afford, but it'd require the approval of an NPC of at least 9th level who can manifest Psychic Reformation on me.
I'm not fond of Psychic Reformation, but... sure.
Katina, could you post a comprehensive list of links for info in your world?  And, where do you see a benevolent artificer/factotum ruling?  I'm envisioning an island city state with a large working population, elemental-powered public transportation, large civil sector universities and a larger-than-normal middle class.
In terms of the 6 nations, I might lean toward Agnis and it seems interesting, adventur-y and has a high draconic population.
This probably got buried earlier (or maybe I just forgot to say it), but you're starting your own territory, not running a city within someone else's.  You'd be between nations, not in them.

This would have to be set in the wastelands between nations, which is the entire challenge.  You're talking about lands that none of the nations claimed due to the well of boiling, screaming souls from the abyss sitting next door.  The best candidates are either between Agnis and Palmeed or between Aldis and Soldia.  Agnis/Palmeed would have a lot more trade to raid.

I'd prefer to have the nations on the mainland, rather than any sort of island, so that they'll be more clumped together and more subject to such dangers as a tribe of trolls wandering in and settling in your back yard.  This is a region where survival is a Big Deal.
Say - where are the pretty forests? The island nation seems fun if the distanances between islands are such that my pegasus can island-hop safely (i.e. without tiring first).
Soldia has some scattered about.  Wisley is pretty much a giant jungle (and some of the fringes of that jungle belong to Agnis).  Between Soldia and Shihou, you've got huge stretches of forest, most of which overlaps with the Lost Forest (basically the world's chaotic plane; doubles as Cthulhuland lite, as well as the main home of the fey).  These forests stretch all the way into Shihou.  Palmeed also has some forests, which are being progressively pruned back for expanding agriculture.  They have a giant automated farming system covering a huge section of their country, and that thing's always growing.
Hi dont want to seem like a pest as Ixy has dropped out if you need another pc id be willing to step out. Thanks for your consideration have a great day.
Sure.  (Though Ixy, if you're still reading, I'd still be glad to have you, even if it means more players.)

Offline TheGlyphstoneTopic starter

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #194 on: August 07, 2010, 11:41:23 AM »
Oh, that's different. So, looking at the pricing charts then, we'd all benefit from the -10% adjustment for "Site in Lawless Area". I may dispense with my tavern and income source setup, if we're so grossly far away from civilization - from the looks of it, we're not so much owning castles as little independent border provinces?

How far away, roughly, would we be, from the really big cities of the civilized lands? 100 miles, less, more? What sort of climate range are we looking at, or should we just assume Temperate climate?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 11:43:47 AM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Katina Tarask

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #195 on: August 07, 2010, 11:54:10 AM »
Oh, there's through traffic.  Most trade goes on by sea, but there are relatively safe and stable land trade routes from Agnis to Palmeed that see a great deal of use which could patronize a tavern.  Palmeed pretty much provides all the food needed to support Agnis, and Agnis pays however they can.

There's about two hundred miles between Agnis and Palmeed, and about a hundred at the widest point between Agnis and Soldia.  (The other huge, empty, unclaimed spaces are a vast wasteland east of Palmeed that covers a third of the continent and is absolutely wretched and a huge stretch of forest between Shihou and Soldia where the barrier between reality and Cthulhuland is so thin as to make it truly unusable, rather than difficult to use.)  Also, Lestansa pretty much owns the central sea, so they border everyone and if one of y'all has a plot of land that can support a viable port (that has enough wrong with it to justify no one else claiming it first), then Lestansans can visit, too.  Because truly, pirates are the best of clientele.

You can be closer to or farther from either side, if you want.  Palmeed's defenses make it a veritable wall, though you may be able to take bits and pieces of land from Soldia or Agnis if you're willing to risk war with a major power.

Offline WyzardWhately

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #196 on: August 07, 2010, 11:59:28 AM »
I figure we aim for a temperate area.  Forests are good, but the land needs to be fertile enough that it can be cleared and farmed.  A port would be really nice, but is secondary to self-sufficiency.  If there are going to be nearby mines, we're better off having essential stuff (basic metals, etc.) than gems and jewelry.

The best problems we can have are nearby monsters, because then we have a ready source of adventures, in addition to it explaining why other people haven't settled here.

Offline TheGlyphstoneTopic starter

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #197 on: August 07, 2010, 12:03:59 PM »
It looks like midway between Agnis and Palmeed is the best option - assuming one of them has a Large City no more than 12 miles from their border, that's another -1%.

If we want to have a Monster Lair in our area (because discounts are fun for us, and prebuilt adventure sites are fun for everyone), how do you want to handle that? The book says the discount is worth 1%/3CR of the highest-CR encounter in the lair, plus 1% for each additional encounter of that CR or up to 1 less (max 3 encounters).

EDIT: Wyzard beat me to it.

Also - do we have any freedom deciding what our followers consist of, even if they don't accompany us? I'd really like to have a Cleric in residence, for instance.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 12:08:48 PM by TheGlyphstone »

Offline Katina Tarask

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #198 on: August 07, 2010, 12:29:38 PM »
Palmeed has a gargantuan automated farm big enough to easily feed two entire countries and have plenty to spare for trade.  You could get by with no farming whatsoever if you just trade with Palmeed.  Which is good, since the wastelands between nations aren't generally very fertile.

Low-level followers are assumed to be some manner of generic abstract mix, in the event that you need to call a low-level Cleric or Wizard or smith or laborer or some such.  Your fifth- and sixth-level minions may be worth tracking, if you have any, but first- through maybe third-level?  Not so much.

And just assume there's a CR18 somewhere in the area.  I don't know what it might be, but there'll probably be something at least that powerful if the game goes on long enough.  I'll be making a lot of that stuff up as we go.

Offline TheGlyphstoneTopic starter

Re: Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Hunting GM)
« Reply #199 on: August 07, 2010, 12:38:42 PM »
So, assum 1 CR18=6%, and up to 3 CR17s = 3%...that's another 9% total discount. Excellent.

My real problem at this point is figuring out what to do with my minions, any ideas on what they'd be involved in? My stronghold staff won't number more than 10-15 or so...maybe 20-30 guards, but that still leaves 70-80 1st-level characters.