Mid-to-high level D&D 3.5? (Basically Full)

[Aether]

Okay, wow.  Looked up Factotum.  Married with a Warblade?

Still need to find his book though to be ALL clear on the class.

[WyzardWhately]

Will magic & psionics be transparent to each other in this game?

[ff]

So, thank you to the several players who have complimented or encouraged me to try. Between that and the fact that Katina seems like the sort of DM you don't want to waste (encouraged to see a custom setting someone has been thought into, and point buy rather than "rolling"), I'll try it.

Might be a stupid question - but I'm assuming multiclass XP penalties are N/A in gestalt?

Here is a current draft for a gestalt rogue+fighter / swashbuckler.

Party roles I hope she can help on:
-Partial 'face' char (bluff and sense motive, but not diplomacy)
-Search/locks/traps monkey
-Partial scout (stealth and darkvision, but not spot/listen of her own)
-area spell martyr (for Evasion-able things)

In combat she will try to help others by backstabbing things that attack them (or preferably before) and be rather dependent on getting sneak attack conditions, so any tank who can flank with her, or anyone who can cast (Improved!) Invisibility on her, will be a friend indeed. Likewise general buffs (Prot. Evil, Barkskin, etc. and especially Cat's Grace and Bless Weapon since her current gear is light on the 'obvious' bonus types.

If we are doing 'organization building' play, something like teaching at a fencing training school, or being an 'agent' for an organization (like the Harpers in Forgotten Realms), might be an appropriate.

Design parameters as understood: gestalt, L10, standard wealth (49K), 36 point buy, max hp

?
lesser tiefling, gestalt rogue 6 fighter 4 / swashbuckler 10
Medium Outsider (native)
Hit Dice: 10d10+10 (110 hp)
Initiative: +11
Speed: 30 ft.
Armor Class: 27 (+5 Dex, +6 armor, +2 shield, +4 dodge), touch 19, flat-footed 22
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+12
Attack: +1 kukri +19 melee (1d4+9/15-20) or +1 comp longbow +16 ranged (1d8+3/x3) or throwing axe +17 ranged (1d4+6)
Full Attack: +1 kukri +17/+13 melee (1d4+9/15-20) and +1 kukri +17/+13 melee (1d4+8/15-20); or +1 comp. longbow +16/+11 ranged (1d8+3/x3);  or throwing axes +15/+10 ranged (1d4+6) and +15/+10 ranged (1d4+5)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: improved flanking, insightful strike, lesser darkness 1/day, sneak attack 8d6
Special Qualities: acrobatic charge, darkvision 60', dodge bonus +4, evasion, grace +3, resistances (cold, elec, fire 2), trapfinding, trap sense +2, uncanny dodge
Saves: Fort +12, Reflex +15, Will +6
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8 [from 36 point buy 14 16 14 14 14 10]
Skills: Bluff 14, Diplomacy 1, Disable Device 17, Disguise 1, Gather Info 1, Jump 9, Hide 22, Move Silently 20, Open Lock 20, Search 15, Sense Motive 13, Sleight of Hand 6, Tumble 17
(Synergies: +2 diplomacy, disguise, gather info, sleight of hand from bluff, +2 balance and jump from tumble, +2 tumble from jump)
Feats: Daring Outlaw, Daring Warrior, Improved Buckler Defense, Improved Critical (kukri), Improved Initiative, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Melee Weapon Mastery (slashing), Quick Draw, Sacred Strike, Telling Blow, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (kukri), Weapon Specialization (kukri)
Flaws: Frail (-1hp/level)
Alignment: Lawful Good
Languages: Common, Elven, Infernal, Sylvan
Lesser Darkness (Sp): as darkness except 5' radius and spell level 1st. Caster level 10th (equals character level), 1/day.
Sacred Strike (Ex): sneak attacks against evil creatures deal d8 die instead of d6.
Telling Blow (Ex): critical hits deal sneak attack damage (not multiplied).

Possessions:
two +1 kukris (4,616 gp)
+1 comp longbow (Str +2) (2600 gp)
armor: +2 mithral chain shirt (5100 gp)
shield: +1 darkwood buckler (1,215 gp)
vest: vest (corset!) of resistance +1 (1000 gp)
belt: Belt of Battle: +2 competence bonus to Initiative as a continuous effect. Also has three charges, renewed each day at dawn, which may be used to grant extra actions (1 charge for a move action, 2 for a standard action, and 3 for a full round action). (12,000 gp; from MIC)
boots: boots of speed (12,000)
bracers: Deathstrike Bracers: When activated, deathstrike bracers allow you to use melee weapons to deal extra damage from critical hits and sneak attacks to constructs, elementals, oozes, plants, and undead as if they were not immune to such extra damage. You must still roll a critical threat and confirm it as a critical hit or qualify to deliver sneak attack damage to gain any benefit from the bracers. This effect does not allow you to overcome any other immunity or resistance to extra damage from sneak attacks or critical hits (such as the fortification armor property). This effect lasts for 1 round and may be activated (swift action, mental) three times per day. (5,000 gp; from MIC)
handy haversack (2,000 gp)
efficient quiver, 20 javelins,four mw cold iron kukris, quiver with 400 cold iron arrows and 40 silver arrows, 100 cold iron throwing axes, 10 light hammers, 2 saps, locking gauntlets, grappling hook and 100' of silk rope, thin bedroll and rain tarp, three tendays of rations, flint and tinder, 3 sunrods, two scout's outfits, one silk aristocratic gown, forest camouflage rain cloak (mw tool for hide), soft padded elven footwear (mw tool for move silently; nonmagical base item for boots of speed), mw kits for disable device and open locks, map of the known world, canteen, light warhorse and military saddle
That's a little under 46,000 gp I think; will tally more carefully later
liquid assets: 3,000 gp
Could save 1K per AC point by converting armor or buckler to +1 and adding ring of protection +1 or amulet of natural armor +1, but former is simpler and maybe likely to benefit from allies' buff spells or later loot. Too much of her gear is probably in specialty items, but again I figure she's more likely to be able to loot or commission better replacements or bum buff spells to cover those, so I went heavy on specific / 'wish list' items, hopefully not at too much expense of her AC, saves, and ability scores.
(Empty chakras: head: eyes: amulet: cloak: gloves: ring: ring:)
(Sources: BoEF: Sacred Strike; CS: Daring Outlaw, Daring Warrior; CW: Improved Buckler Defense, Swashbuckler; MIC: belt of battle, deathstrike bracers; Savage Progressions: lesser (LA +) tiefling, PHBII: Telling Blow, Melee Weapon Mastery)

[WyzardWhately]

My current plan is:

Wizard 3/[something] 7
Psion 3/Cerebromancer 7

I don't have the inclination to branch out a lot and do anything else really odd innovative, so that empty seven-level slot will probably just be Rogue or Monk, to get a little better hit dice and maybe some extra skill points.  I promise I can be fun in play even if my build isn't super-exciting.

My character is going to be a scholar with an accursed and mutated bloodline (aberrant blood feats, Lords of Madness.)  As a fruit of his heritage, he's developed awesome powers of the mind, and bent his intellect to the study of magic as well.  He enjoys dominance, and so thrives in hierarchical social situations where he can exert control over others.  He's driven to achieve a high position in order to insulate himself from the consequences of his tainted biology - he's becoming increasingly inhuman (perhaps accelerated by giving in and pursuing the path of psionic power) and knows that there are people who would kill him for the danger he represents.

His role in the party is to be super-useful in a utilitarian problem-solving way, because he has access to an impressive toolkit of arcane and psionic abilities.

[ff]

As you have Wizard and were thinking of Rogue as well, what about Arcane Trickster after the first three levels of rogue? (Or that similar psion-thief hybrid class - forget the manual - Complete Adventurer?) Sneak attacks can be done with ray spells (many monsters have terrible touch AC) - does psionics have ray effects? -  and of course invisibility helps land sneak attacks (biased here b/c if I play my above char, an Invisibility-casting char will be a boon) - you'd be at wizard 7th which is just in time for Improved Invis.

[WyzardWhately]

I'm almost sure you aren't supposed to have two PrCs at once. 

Also, I'm already going to have so many spells and powers flying around, I just don't want to clutter the sheet up any more than I have to.  I'm honestly more inclined to monk than rogue.  I might never even use the unarmed strike, but the good save progressions would be nice.  Also, the monk abilities would reflavor nicely as being unnaturally enhanced physical capacity (instead of the result of any real training or discipline), and I think that fits in really neatly with his feat chain and backstory.

[ff]

Quite fine, but again, the minions will be a form of bureaucratic currency for running and protecting your land, rather than a more active resource like a hundred a hundred crossbows to pepper baddies.  (Though if you have a artificer/caster cohort, they can help you out.)

Oh, and no XP costs; instead, replace every point of XP cost with 5 gp, simplifying crafting.

Interesting, I had a prior group where we did the same thing, used that conversion rate (based on the gp cost that XP spell components adds to spell-effect items, as I imagine your motivation is) for an effect of crafting price = 70% of market price (since normally XP is 1/25th the gp cost, so it comes to 1/2 + 1/5).

[Marie Reynolds]

Are players still being accepted?

[TheGlyphstone]

@Kat: Do you consider Racial Paragon classes to be "base" or "prestige" for the purposes of being taken opposite a regular Prestige class or not?

Also - can we treat increased skill points from ability scores as retroactive, to make the math easier?

3rd: - Do our cohorts come with NPC wealth for their level, or do we have to pay to gear them completely out of our pocket? I suppose this is a "do I" question, since I'm the only one definitely dragging their cohort around, but others might decide they want to.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Actually, a character cannot be an Arcane Trickster in gestalt.  Any prestige class that is a combination of two classes is forbidden.

Also, if it is okay the GM, I would like my character to build at least one item for every character.  FF, the highest cost you've accrued is 12,000 for either the belt or the boots...  so, if Balrog, my artificer, constructed one of these items, they would cost... 4,500 + 1800 (for XP) = 6,300 gp.

[Katina Tarask]

Oh, for when folks get their sheets up, please use Myth Weavers or the Tangled Web or some similar service.

And I should have mentioned many things sooner, but please use fractional BAB/saves; that just keeps certain things from becoming utterly bizarre.

I've never done followers, but my feeling was always that what would should do is, have them learn some good debuff spell (like Hideous Laughter, Blindness, or later instant death stuff). No matter how low their DCs are, non-immune* enemies will have a 1/20 chance of failing each one, so with a few score followers you have a good chance...

However, in this game, the minions will be administrative capital used to secure and run territory, not actual combat troops to spam natural 20s/1's on folks.

Will magic & psionics be transparent to each other in this game?

Of course.


FF:
No multiclass penalties.  I'm not even sure how that would work in gestalt save for "badly."

Daring Outlaw... does not work that way.  You'd only have 5d6 Sneak Attack; if you have two classes that advance the same feature on each side of the gestalt (as Daring Outlaw makes Swashbuckler and Rogue both advance Sneak Attack), you only take the better progression.  So, you'd only have 5d6 Sneak Attack, and you'd be better off with something closer to Rogue1/Swashbuckler9 on one side and something else on the other.  Fighter's pretty crummy, and I wouldn't suggest more than four levels tops (preferably two) to get some feats; you'd be much better off fanning out than getting more Fighter, particularly since it doesn't improve your skeleton any.

Daring Warrior really isn't worth the feat.


Wyzard:
That build would be quite illegal.  Double-check gestalt rules; the theurge-type classes are explicitly illegal.  That would include Cerebromancer.  If you want both full Wizard casting and full Psion manifesting, you'd need to advance them all the way on either side of the equation.

As for the character, sounds good and fairly straightforward.

Are players still being accepted?

Hrm.  Well, aps aren't the standard hereabouts, and there are already a lot of players, so I'll have to say no, sorry.

@Kat: Do you consider Racial Paragon classes to be "base" or "prestige" for the purposes of being taken opposite a regular Prestige class or not?

Also - can we treat increased skill points from ability scores as retroactive, to make the math easier?

3rd: - Do our cohorts come with NPC wealth for their level, or do we have to pay to gear them completely out of our pocket? I suppose this is a "do I" question, since I'm the only one definitely dragging their cohort around, but others might decide they want to.

Racial paragon is a base class.

Yes, skill points can be retroactive.  It's incredibly irritating otherwise.

They get NPC wealth, and you're on the honors system to not skim off the top of your NPC's swag to get more toys for yourself.

Also, if it is okay the GM, I would like my character to build at least one item for every character.  FF, the highest cost you've accrued is 12,000 for either the belt or the boots...  so, if Balrog, my artificer, constructed one of these items, they would cost... 4,500 + 1800 (for XP) = 6,300 gp.

That's sensible, and probably the simplest way to do it as having everyone running every item past you would be a real nuisance, so yes, having your Artificer make the most expensive item he can for everyone would be kosher.

[Marie Reynolds]

Okay no problem just if there are any dropout for any reason feel free to let me know ill still be following incase that happens

[TheGlyphstone]

Okay, looks like my buildout is going to be:
Psion(Telepath) 6/Marshal 4//
Phrenic 2/Human Paragon 3/Thrallherd 5

An arrogant, coldly brutal man born gifted - or cursed with innate psychic power, knowing from birth that he was better and smarter than everyone around him. Unable to tolerate the company of 'lessers' long enough to learn anything from them, he was forced to educate himself, working to develop his inborn mental talents into a honed tool he could call upon at will.

[ulthakptah]

As to why he is there it's the same reason as owlbears. A deranged wizard wanted a strong more powerful creature, but it failed as he came out less a mindless beast and more like a cunning Illumien that would play the game and usurp his creator and take control.

Anyway I'll be going with a rogue/swash||warlock/Hellfire warlock, human

[Ixy]

Okay, not that this will disappoint anyone, but I'm withdrawing my interest in this one.  Meta-gaming has never been my strong suit and I fear that, in this case as in a few instances in the past, my preferences won't match with the rest of the players'.  Good luck guys :)

[TheGlyphstone]

*Is disappointed*


@Kat: Since we've probably already passed the cheese point of no return, what are your feelings on flaws and traits?

Also - Human Paragon 1 lets you take any skill and forever treat it as a class skill...anything you'd feel appropriate to replace that with, since all skills are class skill for everyone anyways?

[Aether]

What book is factotum in, kinds sirs and ladies?

[TheGlyphstone]

Dungeonscape.

[Aether]

Warblade 10 // Factotum 10

Human

Rest in the works once I can get my brain around the factotum class.

I may need help with a description of exactly how many manuvers a level 10 warblade knows and how and when he learns the...  It seems to me that you can only learn one from a given area, ie, level 1 stonemind i choose boost vs the attack...  Is this right?  When you get the chance to learn more past first level, do you have to drop on of the three you have already learned?  And can you drop on of the three fist levels for a level two?

Sorry to be so dense, this stuff makes my head hurt sometimes.

[TheGlyphstone]

Did you get a copy of the book?

Maneuvers for an adept are like a cross between spells for a sorcerer and wizard.
-You know a set number of maneuvers, which can be boosts, strikes, or counters. There's a chart in ToB that shows the progression.
-These maneuvers can only be chosen from certain schools for each type of adept.
-When you learn a new maneuver, the maximum level it can be goes up with your level, at the same rate a wizard would gain new spell levels.
-Most maneuvers above 1st level have prerequisites, needing to have chosen a minimum number of weaker maneuvers from their school.
- You can have a certain number of maneuvers prepared out of those you know.
-These maneuvers are 'charged' until you use them, and recharge after 5 minutes of rest or your recharge action.

[WyzardWhately]

Wyzard:
That build would be quite illegal.  Double-check gestalt rules; the theurge-type classes are explicitly illegal.  That would include Cerebromancer.  If you want both full Wizard casting and full Psion manifesting, you'd need to advance them all the way on either side of the equation.

Well, it actually suggests that the GM prohibit them, but doesn't include a rule prohibiting them.

Since the character taken as a whole isn't overpowered in relation to other PCs being suggested, I thought you might give me a pass. 

[TheGlyphstone]

I've never known a GM to allow dual-progs in gestalt...

[WyzardWhately]

I've never known a GM to allow dual-progs in gestalt...

I can't really argue with that, I haven't had the chance to play many games that didn't die in chargen or become rapidly untenable.  I know it's not a point-based game and so decisions aren't usually made on the basis of comparative abusiveness, but...man, I could just play a Druid/[Something] and it'd be twice as unruly as the PC I'm asking to play.

[Aether]

So, if I choose level 1 stone whatever (yes, has the book, not pulled up right now) and keep it till level 10, then it levels with me.  And a warblade chooses 3, so, in theory, only one of my available will go unlearned.  AND, I have access to all three executions within the one stone maneuver?  IE the boost, the attack, the counter?

[TheGlyphstone]

I can't really argue with that, I haven't had the chance to play many games that didn't die in chargen or become rapidly untenable.  I know it's not a point-based game and so decisions aren't usually made on the basis of comparative abusiveness, but...man, I could just play a Druid/[Something] and it'd be twice as unruly as the PC I'm asking to play.

Yeah, but it's never a good idea to build a character counting on the hope that the GM will houserule in your favor.

So, if I choose level 1 stone whatever (yes, has the book, not pulled up right now) and keep it till level 10, then it levels with me.  And a warblade chooses 3, so, in theory, only one of my available will go unlearned.  AND, I have access to all three executions within the one stone maneuver?  IE the boost, the attack, the counter?

Um...you might want to read the book again, because I don't think you understood it properly. Lemee go through it in summary real quick.

As in Chapter 1, A level 1 Warblade knows X 1st-level maneuvers, the same way a 1st-level Sorcerer might know X spells. For the warblade, X = 3. So you know 3 1st level maneuvers. Chapter 3 explains how Blade Magic works, page 48 is where the maneuvers are listed. As a Warblade, you get to pick from Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and White Raven maneuvers - these are like a sorcerer having to choose between Evocations, Conjurations, Necromancy, etc. schools. You choose 3 maneuvers from those categories in the 1st-level list below. If you want an attack, you could pick any of the Strikes - Stone Bones from Stone Dragon, or Steel Wind from Iron Heart for examples. There aren't any 1st-level boosts you can pick, but you could get a Counter maneuver like the Diamond Mind counter Moment of Perfect Mind. To keep the comparison, our theoretical sorcerer might choose an Evocation attack like Magic Missile, or an Abjuration like Shield. He doesn't pick 'Abjuration' and get an attack, defense, and buff spell all at once.

Really, the best way is to read Chapter 3 in detail, then skip back and read chapter 1 on the Warblade section.