You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 08, 2016, 11:50:47 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Anti-gay Protests at funerals of Fallen Soldiers  (Read 1978 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lady AyameTopic starter

Anti-gay Protests at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« on: April 04, 2010, 07:05:55 PM »
Some articles to catch you up if you haven't already ---------------------------------->>>
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100331/ts_csm/291560
http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/08/1799138_us-supreme-court-agrees-to-hear.html?storylink=omni_popular

I'm not sure if we have a thread about this already, but I'm very curious about what other people think on this matter.

Myself, I totally believe in protecting our rights to free speech, but there is a line between exerting your rights and abusing them.
My bottom line is, if you're a so-called "Good Christian Person" You wouldn't go to a dead soldier's funeral holding a sign that says "Thank god for Dead Soldiers". 

Plus, the theory that god is killing american soldiers because america is tolerating homosexuality is probably the most ridiculous thing I've heard my entire life.
(along with, God destroyed New Orleans for their sins and Haiti for their Voodoo)


A picture of the Protesters themselves, notice the one on the left is standing on an american flag.
IED = Improvised explosive device [Mostly used by rag-tag extremists in the middle east]
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 12:00:38 AM by Lady Ayame »

Offline Jude

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2010, 07:26:47 PM »
Obviously I think they're bad people for doing what they do, but because I believe in Freedom of Speech, I think they have the right to say it (so long as they do not harass people, block the entrance, or otherwise disrupt what's happening on private property).

Offline Serephino

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2010, 07:33:39 PM »
Yeah, I read this and was mad enough to spit nails.  That's just.... there's no excuse for that.  I believe in free speech, but I also believe in common decency and respect for the dead.  I feel really bad for that father. 

Offline Samael

  • † My heart is dead, it's way past beating †
  • Lord
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Location: ¥ At the edge of the city of forever ¥
  • Gender: Male
  • ‡ Hündlekätzle Jäger ‡
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2010, 07:43:18 PM »
Wasn't there a group of bikers who went to around to those funerals, blocking the Westboro church from attending there and pulling this shit? Too bad they weren't at this particular funeral...

I'd also say blocking the entrance to the church so a grieving father had to use a side entrance is definitely going beyond "free speech."

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2010, 07:44:58 PM »
Phelps is still at it?  This is the sort of person that tarnishes any issue that he sides with, and the people that hold him up as something to be admired (if there even are any outside his family), are just as fubar as he is. 

I hope that the SCOTUS sees this as an example of 'speech intended to provoke violence'.

Obviously I think they're bad people for doing what they do, but because I believe in Freedom of Speech, I think they have the right to say it (so long as they do not harass people, block the entrance, or otherwise disrupt what's happening on private property).

See, that's the thing.  Phelps's modus operandi is specifically to harass people and disrupt what's happening at a private service.

Wasn't there a group of bikers who went to around to those funerals, blocking the Westboro church from attending there and pulling this shit? Too bad they weren't at this particular funeral...

The Patriot Guard - not just bikers, but ex-military bikers, most of 'em.

Offline Jude

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2010, 07:47:25 PM »
The protests aren't even run by Phelps himself anymore, but by his daughter who is a lawyer that makes sure they adhere to all of the rules and regulations set up by the state that they're in.  Most states have set up laws specifically to make them stay at far enough of a distance that it barely makes an impact on the ceremonies.  And it's definitely not legal to block entrances to buildings while protesting in most states around the country (if any, to my knowledge).

EDIT: 
I'd also say blocking the entrance to the church so a grieving father had to use a side entrance is definitely going beyond "free speech."
The article says they were 30 feet away from the entrance, i.e. not blocking it.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 07:54:38 PM by Jude »

Offline Lady AyameTopic starter

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2010, 07:57:20 PM »
The protests aren't even run by Phelps himself anymore, but by his daughter who is a lawyer that makes sure they adhere to all of the rules and regulations set up by the state that they're in.  Most states have set up laws specifically to make them stay at far enough of a distance that it barely makes an impact on the ceremonies.  And it's definitely not legal to block entrances to buildings while protesting in most states around the country (if any, to my knowledge).

EDIT:  The article says they were 30 feet away from the entrance, i.e. not blocking it.

A quote from the daughter, who is an attorney and is probably the only reason these people are still at it.



But Phelps-Roper [The daughter] is ambivalent, noting that man’s law won’t matter much when America meets divine wrath.

“Her destruction is imminent,” she said. Laughing, she added: “And it’s going to be marvelous.”


Does anybody else think she sounds like a manwoman? I know america isn't going in the right direction regarding alot of issues, but REALLY?

Offline Jude

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2010, 08:02:39 PM »
The more hated you are the more important it is to adhere to every part and parcel of the law so that you don't end up in jail.  The fact that they're still doing this just goes to show that they make sure they don't overstep any legal bounds.

Offline Wolfy

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2010, 08:05:29 PM »
Ya know the funny thing? Bikers, actual 'Hells Angels', will get between these people and the graveyard, and rev their engines so that the mourners don't hear them.

...That's just badass. o3o

Offline Kip

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2010, 08:06:23 PM »
The Phelps clan are notorious for their actions.

I first heard of them when Matthew Shepard was murdered and they picketed his funeral and then the trial of the men who murdered him.  There was a lady there at the funeral who was horrified by their actions and formed a group called Angel Action which first acted at the trial.  They created angel wings and surrounded the area where the Phelps clan had been allowed to gather and put them out of sight.

I think that these guys and the Patriot Guards are fantastic for what they do because the bile and hatred spewed out by this family is just mind boggling.  I find it sad that humans can reach that level - regardless of the personal views one may have on homosexuality, there is a certain level of decency.  That level doesn't include acting in a way that further crushes the souls of families who are mourning the loss of a loved one.

One of the episodes of a show by Louis Theroux of the BBC focused on the family and included a visit to them.  It's on Youtube (linked below) but has lots of hate speech/swearing and offensive (to me definitely) themes.  Despite this, it's an interesting insight into just how focused their thought processes are and how much they hate almost everyone.




The Most Hated Family in America (1 of 8)

Offline Trieste

  • Faerie Queen; Her Imperial Lubemajesty; Willing Victim
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: In the middle of Happily Ever After with a dark Prince Charming.
  • Gender: Female
  • I am many things - dull is not one of them.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 4
Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2010, 08:48:20 PM »
The thing is that US law does not protect such things. The First Amendment protects our right to freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and our right to confront our government with grievances. It specifically prohibits Congress from making laws against these things. However, for over 60 years now, the precedent has been established that the First Amendment does not protect words actually meant to incite violence. It is called the fighting words doctrine (Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire) and it means that I can prosecute you if I can prove that you called my mother a whore (or whatever).

So those billboards are riding the raggedy edge (if I were a judge and I were pressed for a decision on those billboards, I would say that they are borderline since they are not directed but it's splitting a very, very fine hair) but things that the church might say would probably go over the line. "He deserved it" or "He's burning in Hell right now" would be considered by me to be fighting words - and I'm not sure many judges would disagree.

Offline Lady AyameTopic starter

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2010, 08:50:44 PM »
The Phelps clan are notorious for their actions.

I first heard of them when Matthew Shepard was murdered and they picketed his funeral and then the trial of the men who murdered him.  There was a lady there at the funeral who was horrified by their actions and formed a group called Angel Action which first acted at the trial.  They created angel wings and surrounded the area where the Phelps clan had been allowed to gather and put them out of sight.

I think that these guys and the Patriot Guards are fantastic for what they do because the bile and hatred spewed out by this family is just mind boggling.  I find it sad that humans can reach that level - regardless of the personal views one may have on homosexuality, there is a certain level of decency.  That level doesn't include acting in a way that further crushes the souls of families who are mourning the loss of a loved one.

One of the episodes of a show by Louis Theroux of the BBC focused on the family and included a visit to them.  It's on Youtube (linked below) but has lots of hate speech/swearing and offensive (to me definitely) themes.  Despite this, it's an interesting insight into just how focused their thought processes are and how much they hate almost everyone.

Angel Action is lovely :D I hadn't known about them at all until I looked them up from your post information. It makes me a little less angry that people are fighting against them peacefully.

The video is vile though, I felt sorry for the reporter, I could tell he wanted to say something against this insanity but of course he had to adhere to his journalistic duties. The entire family is insane.

Offline Will

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2010, 10:16:16 PM »
Just, why?  That is insane.  I don't understand where so much hate could even come from, much less how it perpetuated itself among that many people.

Offline Callie Del Noire

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2010, 10:19:42 PM »
I heard that a bunch of the folks that due the funeral guard for the navy were give EXPLICIT instructions on how to do their duties in the wake of these.. mad men. And I know that there are a LOT of locals who have very specific laws for the protection of the bereaved and the graveyards specifically because of the Phelps clan.

As a service member (retired) I find it caustic, obscene and ..yes.. UNHOLY for this to be done to folks who stood up, stepped forward and swore an oath to their country.  You.. DON'T do this to a service man. It's obscene to use a man's sacrifice to push your hateful agenda.

Offline MasterMischief

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2010, 10:29:24 PM »
It is stuff like this that makes me want to become a militant atheist.  The opposite of crazy is still crazy, though.

Offline Trieste

  • Faerie Queen; Her Imperial Lubemajesty; Willing Victim
  • Dame
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Location: In the middle of Happily Ever After with a dark Prince Charming.
  • Gender: Female
  • I am many things - dull is not one of them.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 4
Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2010, 10:46:39 PM »
Just, why?  That is insane.  I don't understand where so much hate could even come from, much less how it perpetuated itself among that many people.

What I saw in the video was not hate. Sure, the older guy was an ass, and the website guy was truly an asshole who enjoyed feeling superior to others. But what I saw in most of them was just... it was a game. It really seemed like those girls thought it was a game, and the main woman (Shirley?) was grandstanding and posturing. It's nothing but a show to them, I think. Now, whether or not they believe that they preach is something else, but it truly seemed like they were making sport of people watching.

Offline RP7466

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2010, 12:17:45 AM »
These assholes should be out of earshot and out of site of the funeral, 30 FEET! ARE YOU KIDDING!

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2010, 01:05:52 AM »
But what I saw in most of them was just... it was a game. It really seemed like those girls thought it was a game, and the main woman (Shirley?) was grandstanding and posturing. It's nothing but a show to them, I think.

Somehow, that's not very encouraging either.

Offline Serephino

Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2010, 08:56:55 PM »
While watching the video I couldn't help but think, if they hate the country so much, then why don't they leave?  I'd happily help them pack!

Offline Samael

  • † My heart is dead, it's way past beating †
  • Lord
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Location: ¥ At the edge of the city of forever ¥
  • Gender: Male
  • ‡ Hündlekätzle Jäger ‡
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2010, 08:58:49 PM »
While watching the video I couldn't help but think, if they hate the country so much, then why don't they leave?  I'd happily help them pack!


I think they hate everything and everyone on this earth.
I hear Mars is pretty quiet at this time of the millennium.

Offline Oniya

  • StoreHouse of Useless Trivia
  • Oracle
  • Carnite
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Location: Just bouncing through. Hi! City of Roses, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Female
  • One bad Motokifuka. Also cute and FLUFFY!
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2010, 09:53:24 PM »
I think they hate everything and everyone on this earth.
I hear Mars is pretty quiet at this time of the millennium.

They'd have issues with Valentine Michael Smith, to be sure.

Chuck 'em onto one of the moons.  Either 'fear' (Phobos) or 'terror' (Deimos) would be equally appropriate.

Offline Samael

  • † My heart is dead, it's way past beating †
  • Lord
  • Seducer
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Location: ¥ At the edge of the city of forever ¥
  • Gender: Male
  • ‡ Hündlekätzle Jäger ‡
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 3
Re: Anti-gay Protests and at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2010, 11:47:28 PM »
They'd have issues with Valentine Michael Smith, to be sure.

Chuck 'em onto one of the moons.  Either 'fear' (Phobos) or 'terror' (Deimos) would be equally appropriate.

Well played.
Very well played!

Offline Brandon

Re: Anti-gay Protests at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2010, 04:53:12 PM »
I'm all for freedom of speech but we really need to amend the first amendment to make intelligence necessary for exercising it.

Honestly if I was there, there would have been a fight. I would have kicked every one of their asses for making a mockery out of that soldiers sacrifice. The whole standing on the flag thing doesnt really bother me because Im sure we all feel like America's going downhill from time to time, however to disrespect a person who swore and oath to protect them and their rights...well its completely unacceptable. By law, we cant do anything to them but that doesnt mean that the people present couldnt take some kind of action themselves


Offline Will

Re: Anti-gay Protests at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2010, 05:09:33 PM »
Marring such a solemn occasion further with a fistfight is probably not the best idea.  The only thing you can do is show them that you're above them, better than them.  Ignore them.

Offline Tachi

Re: Anti-gay Protests at funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2010, 07:55:46 PM »
This is why I hate religion. There's so much hate that comes from it that it makes the world a worse place. To pick on Christianity, I can't even conceive why they believe anything from the bible. I mean, Saint Paul was a crazy old man living in a cave and hallucinating! I'd better stop before I get into a rant.