SCOTUS Opinion Leaks, Suggests Roe v. Wade will be Overturned

[KnightmareTerror]

Fuck. This was horrible news to wake up to.

There are some major conversations my girlfriend and I are going to have to have because of this. She was always thinking about getting at least a bilateral salpingectomy since she doesn't want kids/never wanted them and in the advent of an assault on her, didn't want that to be a worry. But with Roe v. Wade likely to be repealed in two months...yeah, she and I will need to talk about whether or not this moves up her timetable and what I can do to help and support her. :/

If your girlfriend is still looking for a doctor, you can go to r/childfree on Reddit; it has a list of doctors linked on the sidebar who have performed sterilization surgeries for members of the sub.  She may still need to do some doctor shopping, unfortunately there have been people who have said some of the doctors on the list denied them, but I think it will probably be faster for her to find someone via that list than looking on her own.

[TheGlyphstone]

https://apnews.com/article/abortion-supreme-court-decision-854f60302f21c2c35129e58cf8d8a7b0


And its done...

[Snakes and Lasers]

Cool.


I assume this means free healthcare for pregnant women and children now, right? Don't want our kids to die after all.


And more gun control too? I'm afraid of the pro-abortionists running into maternity wards with assault rifles and shooting up all the babies.

[Mr Quixotic]

I have no other words but to say I'm disgusted. I'm in Australia, but just wanted to offer my support to those in the US and my wish that this shameful decision can and will somehow be overturned.

[Lady Sakura]

Cool.


I assume this means free healthcare for pregnant women and children now, right? Don't want our kids to die after all.

Sadly, they only care about the unborn. Once the child is born they don't give a damn about them. It's why food for babies is super expensive. Children aren't safe in schools, maternity leave is only 10 wks long. Not enough time to bond with your baby. Whereas in New Zealand it's like 1-3 years of paid leave, for the mom, and a year for the dad. They also have free healthcare. You can't even get wick if you're a single mother to feed your baby cause conservatives feel you using up their resources. They attack welfare. They don't help make it so that poor children can get a meal during the pandemic. The only thing they care about is controlling and protect their rights to have guns. They aren't pro-life at all they are simply pro-forced pregnancies. Otherwise there wouldn't be an increase in mass shootings.

[Snakes and Lasers]

They care when a woman wants to terminate it.
Unborn baby die for any other reason, they don't care.
Miscarriage? Blame the mother if you can! Otherwise, well, them's the breaks.
The hypocrisy is amazing.

[Lady Sakura]

They care when a woman wants to terminate it.
Unborn baby die for any other reason, they don't care.
Miscarriage? Blame the mother if you can! Otherwise, well, them's the breaks.
The hypocrisy is amazing.

They can actually try and prosecute a woman for having a miscarriage since it's considered a spontaneous abortion. Women would be forced to carry still born to term and even be made to be at fault for it. They can also make it hard for a woman who are unable to have children naturally can't get access to IVF. In religion, men aren't allowed to waste sperm it has to go into a woman so women's access to sperm banks will also be at risk.  If a woman does anything like drinking if she doesn't know she is carrying can be charged with harm to a unborn child. The list goes on...

[TheGlyphstone]

A couple of years ago, there was a woman in Alabama who got into an argument with another woman while pregnant, and the other woman ended up shooting her. She suffered a miscarriage as a result, and they indicted her on murder charges because she had not de-escalated the situation enough to avoid being shot. The charges did end up being dropped after massive public outcry, at least, but still...

https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/7/3/20681511/marshae-jones-alabama-miscarriage-shooting-charges-dismissed

[stormwyrm]

A couple of years ago, there was a woman in Alabama who got into an argument with another woman while pregnant, and the other woman ended up shooting her. She suffered a miscarriage as a result, and they indicted her on murder charges because she had not de-escalated the situation enough to avoid being shot. The charges did end up being dropped after massive public outcry, at least, but still...

https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/7/3/20681511/marshae-jones-alabama-miscarriage-shooting-charges-dismissed

That is just so much bullshit. Ms. Jones was the one who got shot, and she's the one who was charged with manslaughter?! If anyone should have gotten prosecuted it was the idiot who fired the damn gun, but nooo...

According to a report from Al.com, police initially charged Jemison with manslaughter over the shooting. But a jury declined to indict her, saying that Jones initiated the altercation and that Jemison was acting in self-defense when she shot at Jones. That same jury later indicted Jones, arguing that she “intentionally caused the death of her unborn baby by initiating a fight knowing she was five months pregnant.”

🤦‍♂️

[Oniya]

I am absolutely disgusted by the state of Ohio right now.  The state has banned all abortions 'once a fetal heartbeat can be detected'. 

All the trigger warnings.  N/C, child abuse, disregard for human decency

A girl was brought to a child abuse doctor in Ohio.  She was 6 weeks and three days pregnant, and had been denied an abortion.

She was also 10 years old.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3544588-10-year-old-girl-denied-abortion-in-ohio/

A doctor in Indiana agreed to perform the procedure, but Indiana is also considering a ban.

What kind of human being looks at this situation, and thinks that enforcing that ban is a good idea?!?

[Laughing Hyena]

It took three days for something like this to happen by the way. Stuff like this is why it should have stayed at the federal level. Hopefully Congress has the sense to push this on through because this is unacceptable.

[Vekseid]

It took three days for something like this to happen by the way. Stuff like this is why it should have stayed at the federal level. Hopefully Congress has the sense to push this on through because this is unacceptable.

While I don't count it out, given their shaky rulings on laws I would expect it to be declared 'unconstitutional' if such a thing got passed.

[GloomCookie]

I am absolutely disgusted by the state of Ohio right now.  The state has banned all abortions 'once a fetal heartbeat can be detected'. 

All the trigger warnings.  N/C, child abuse, disregard for human decency

A girl was brought to a child abuse doctor in Ohio.  She was 6 weeks and three days pregnant, and had been denied an abortion.

She was also 10 years old.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3544588-10-year-old-girl-denied-abortion-in-ohio/

A doctor in Indiana agreed to perform the procedure, but Indiana is also considering a ban.

What kind of human being looks at this situation, and thinks that enforcing that ban is a good idea?!?

So, minor update on this but the Washington Post has gone back and is casting serious doubt on this, pointing out there's only one source for this entire thing, and there have been no attempts to follow up and verify this case is actually real. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/09/one-source-story-about-10-year-old-an-abortion-goes-viral/

The case boils down to one doctor, who is on record, but no information actually confirming that this case is real beyond that.

[Azy]

It really seems to me that Conservatives want to go back to the good old 1950's where women stayed at home barefoot and pregnant.  They say all these laws that are popping up have provisions for saving the mother's life at least.  Of course, they left it a bit vague.  Ectopic pregnancies are 100% fatal, there is no way around that.  Two or so years ago some Senator was of the opinion that and ectopic pregnancy should be able to just be moved to the uterus.  Even I know it doesn't work like that.  And this is why, even though I'm not exactly pro abortion, I do believe the decisions should be made by the pregnant woman and her doctor. 

[CrownedSun]

It really seems to me that Conservatives want to go back to the good old 1950's where women stayed at home barefoot and pregnant.  They say all these laws that are popping up have provisions for saving the mother's life at least.  Of course, they left it a bit vague.  Ectopic pregnancies are 100% fatal, there is no way around that.  Two or so years ago some Senator was of the opinion that and ectopic pregnancy should be able to just be moved to the uterus.  Even I know it doesn't work like that.  And this is why, even though I'm not exactly pro abortion, I do believe the decisions should be made by the pregnant woman and her doctor.

As far as I've been able to see, the whole, "have provisions for saving the mother's life" thing is 100% lies. At least in some states. <.<

[TheGlyphstone]

One of the issues is that its left so vague, that the burden of proof is upon the doctor to prove it was necessary. So most simply refuse anyone to protect themselves from prosecution.

[Hrairoo]

One of the issues is that its left so vague, that the burden of proof is upon the doctor to prove it was necessary. So most simply refuse anyone to protect themselves from prosecution.

This goes the same for any "compromises" for cases of rape or incest. Both would have to be proven, likely through lawyers or a full on trial, before a doctor would be willing to risk potentially breaking an anti-abortion law. So, any exception for something that will need a long, drawn out legal process to prove (longer than 9 months of pregnancy) is essentially meaningless as a compromise.

[Thufir Hawat]

This goes the same for any "compromises" for cases of rape or incest. Both would have to be proven, likely through lawyers or a full on trial, before a doctor would be willing to risk potentially breaking an anti-abortion law. So, any exception for something that will need a long, drawn out legal process to prove (longer than 9 months of pregnancy) is essentially meaningless as a compromise.

Don't you people have a reasonable belief/good faith defense(whatever it might be called)? I.e. if the doctor sincerely believed that there's good grounds the accusation would be true, he's not liable as he was acting in good faith?

[Lady Sakura]

There is a movement that Trevor Noah is trying to pitch about guys doing their part and getting Vasectomies' I mean conversations are putting all the blame on women when it's actually the man that makes the match happen. The procedure is super easy and reversible.

[stormwyrm]

Here's a very informative article a few weeks ago about this issue:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/legislative-alchemy-and-abortion-how-the-fall-of-roe-v-wade-will-degrade-science-based-medicine/

There really are many cases in obstetrics where an abortion, even in the presence of a fetal heartbeat, is the proper standard of care. For example, if the membranes prematurely rupture at around 20 weeks or so, that can easily lead to infection and sepsis, and the only option that can save the life of the woman (the fetus cannot be viable outside the womb at that point, even though it might have a heartbeat) becomes an abortion. There was a horrific case in Ireland where exactly this happened, and the woman's doctors just let her die of septic shock thanks to their fear of the law at the time. It eventually led to an outcry such that the majority Catholic country voted to repeal the law criminalising abortion in 2018.

Anti-abortion legislation just makes these kinds of calls even harder for doctors, who will then need to weigh their medical judgement against possible prosecution and criminal penalties. These are not cases where someone goes to a doctor and says: "I want to end this pregnancy" but someone who says: "I'm having a pregnancy complication, and I need you to help me." Those women are SOL with how most of the laws that seem to be popping up after the end of Roe v. Wade seem to be written.

[GloomCookie]

There is a movement that Trevor Noah is trying to pitch about guys doing their part and getting Vasectomies' I mean conversations are putting all the blame on women when it's actually the man that makes the match happen. The procedure is super easy and reversible.

According to the National Health Service of the UK, Vasectomies are not 100% reversible. To quote:

It's estimated that the success rate of a vasectomy reversal is:
*75% if you have your vasectomy reversed within 3 years
*up to 55% after 3 to 8 years
*between 40% and 45% after 9 to 14 years
*30% after 15 to 19 years
*less than 10% after 20 years

Basically, after 3 years you're flipping a coin almost on whether you can get it undone.

[Lady Sakura]

Ah! Thank you for the stats and the reading. <3

[Iniquitous]

Here's a very informative article a few weeks ago about this issue:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/legislative-alchemy-and-abortion-how-the-fall-of-roe-v-wade-will-degrade-science-based-medicine/

There really are many cases in obstetrics where an abortion, even in the presence of a fetal heartbeat, is the proper standard of care. For example, if the membranes prematurely rupture at around 20 weeks or so, that can easily lead to infection and sepsis, and the only option that can save the life of the woman (the fetus cannot be viable outside the womb at that point, even though it might have a heartbeat) becomes an abortion. There was a horrific case in Ireland where exactly this happened, and the woman's doctors just let her die of septic shock thanks to their fear of the law at the time. It eventually led to an outcry such that the majority Catholic country voted to repeal the law criminalising abortion in 2018.

It is possible to carry a pregnancy if the membranes do break/leak at 20 weeks.  I know because mine did with my second pregnancy (leak that is - wasn't a full on rupture). It was a bad enough leak to land me in the hospital on bed rest with constant monitoring to make sure I didn't turn septic. Even had to have blue dye injected into the sac to see just how much I was leaking.  Managed to carry that pregnancy to 35 weeks, which was a miracle but it meant total bedrest the entire time and constant monitoring with a heavy dose of 'if you go into labor we cant guarantee the fetus will survive' until I hit the 30 week mark.

[Oniya]

There are also tragic cases like anencephaly, where the fetus is completely viable inside the womb, but has no chance of survival outside.

[Oniya]

So, minor update on this but the Washington Post has gone back and is casting serious doubt on this, pointing out there's only one source for this entire thing, and there have been no attempts to follow up and verify this case is actually real. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/09/one-source-story-about-10-year-old-an-abortion-goes-viral/

The case boils down to one doctor, who is on record, but no information actually confirming that this case is real beyond that.

There's now a suspect in custody.  https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-charged-rape-ohio-10-year-police-traveled/story?id=86754013