Impeachment, Take Two (and Other Trump News)

[TheVillain]

I'm holding out for "laundered money for the Russian Mob" personally.

[Humble Scribe]

The FBI has made a sudden search of Trump's house at Mar-A-Lago and even accessed his safe.

Well, we can only hope that John Oliver's running joke is finally coming true...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDX7yVmQam8

[Oniya]

The latest from CNN is that the warrant had to do with the potential mishandling of classified documents - presumably due to the fact that he took said documents with him to an unsecured location.

[gaggedLouise]

The latest from CNN is that the warrant had to do with the potential mishandling of classified documents - presumably due to the fact that he took said documents with him to an unsecured location.

Trump surely knpws what it was they were looking for, this wasn't a "daybreak raid" executed without any prior notice of what they wanted from his files - but of course he refuses to tell and instead casts it as a rabid "witch hunt".

[Laughing Hyena]

Edgeworth said it best to Damon Gant. "Just sit back, relax and enjoy the noose tightening around your neck."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KErWWzsGSCE

[gaggedLouise]

A little while ago, Ron Christie (former advisor to George W Bush, so he's a Republican) was on BBC News saying, quoted from memory: "From here until November, Trump is going to become once again a larger-than-life figure, and the more he is standing center stage, the more he is dangling a 2024 bid - the more he will appear to become an albatross around Republican necks".

I hope that's true enough about at least a large part of the middle-ground voters, the ones that any congressional or governor race has to try to catch, if the candidate wants to be able to win. Trump's demands for personal exoneration against all odds, and to be made a hero by the GOP, are growing ever more difficult to handle for his own party.

[Oniya]

So, it turns out corporations are people.

New York AG James has 'signaled she will also seek the dissolution of the [Trump Organization] itself under New York's so-called corporate death penalty -- a law that allows the AG to seek to dissolve businesses that operate "in a persistently fraudulent or illegal manner."  '

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-ivanka-deposed-by-ny-attorney-general-letitia-james-2022-8

[TheVillain]

Huh. Didn't know someone took the old joke seriously. "I'll believe Corporations are People when Texas tries to Execute one."

[gaggedLouise]

So, it turns out corporations are people.

New York AG James has 'signaled she will also seek the dissolution of the [Trump Organization] itself under New York's so-called corporate death penalty -- a law that allows the AG to seek to dissolve businesses that operate "in a persistently fraudulent or illegal manner."  '

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-ivanka-deposed-by-ny-attorney-general-letitia-james-2022-8

Very interesting - but aren't Trump and his family going to chase that all the way to SCOTUS? Which means it could take several years...

[Lilias]

Meanwhile, Wonder Woman wins the internet.

[Oniya]

I'm - not sure that SCOTUS would have any kind of jurisdiction.  They're supposed to rule on the constitutionality of laws, and this is essentially a RICO law (I think.) 

Basically, the charge is that the Trump Organization evaded taxes by under-valuing properties, and then over-valued those same properties when trying to obtain loan agreements - which is bank fraud under  section 1344, I believe.

That particular bit of US Code is mentioned in the RICO definitions section here

The fact that they have done this numerous times over the course of (at least) a decade establishes the 'pattern of racketeering activity' (number 5 under the definitions link)

So once again, tax fraud is being used to combat a corrupt organization. 

Comment from Mark Hamill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G56VgsLfKY4

[gaggedLouise]

I'm - not sure that SCOTUS would have any kind of jurisdiction.  They're supposed to rule on the constitutionality of laws, and this is essentially a RICO law (I think.) 

Basically, the charge is that the Trump Organization evaded taxes by under-valuing properties, and then over-valued those same properties when trying to obtain loan agreements - which is bank fraud under  section 1344, I believe.

That particular bit of US Code is mentioned in the RICO definitions section here

The fact that they have done this numerous times over the course of (at least) a decade establishes the 'pattern of racketeering activity' (number 5 under the definitions link)

So once again, tax fraud is being used to combat a corrupt organization. 

Comment from Mark Hamill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G56VgsLfKY4

Yes, sure, I know the nature of the charges and that she  has powerful evidence for her case -  just getting so used to Trump and his buddies attempting to bring every damn case up to SCOTUS, even cases that don't have a leg to stand on (like the one brought by Texas and several other states against Pennsylvania over mail-in voting in PA). And as everyone knows, getting a case that high up or even getting a "no, we're not gonna take it - you've run out of appeals" statement can take several years.

The workings of the U.S. judicial system sometimes do appear...kinda outdated and a bit stuck in the 19th century to some of us. When the NY AG office began investigating the Trump Foundation back in 2016 - an entity that's been haunted by loads of lawsuits and allegations of financial misconduct - it took five years to even get the charges closer to getting heard in a courtroom. The Foundation was finally ordered to shut down under court protection in late 2019 (around the time of Trump's first impeachment - originally he had promised to wind it down already three years earlier, before he even entered the White House, but he kept procrastinating of course!) - still, the slow-moving inquiries into its financial practices are continuing. The length of time was partly due to Trump's claims of immunity from prosecution as president, but there are many instances of this kind of thing, when a case seems to drag on forever with various judges overruling each other and returning the case back to a lower level (asked to do so by one of the parties to the lawsuit) and no visible progress happening on the case. 

[Vekseid]

Called it.

Original WaPo article.

So at least according to the Post, they were hunting for nuclear secrets Trump was attempting to squirrel away.

He's had his bit gloating about secret nuclear capabilities.

In the midst of reflecting upon how close the United States had come in 2017 to war with North Korea, Trump revealed, “I have built a nuclear — a weapons system that nobody’s ever had in this country before. We have stuff that you haven’t even seen or heard about. We have stuff that Putin and Xi have never heard about before. There’s nobody — what we have is incredible.”

Woodward writes that anonymous sources later confirmed that the U.S. military had a secret new weapons system, but they would not provide details, and that the sources were surprised Trump had disclosed it.

This stuff isn't exactly bedtime reading material. Why keep it other than to sell it?

[Sara Nilsson]

I mean, that is beyond scary.

Considering how easily Trump has proven to be to charm by various dictators around the world I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to imagine him bragging about these things. Since you know Trump likes to brag about everything.

I hope I am wrong and he hasn't shown anyone anything. Because that would be horrible for the safety of our country.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/11/us/cincinnati-fbi-office-armed-subject/index.html

A law enforcement standoff with a man who attempted to breach the FBI’s field office in Cincinnati on Thursday has ended with the suspect dead, according to the Ohio State Highway Patrol.

Lt. Nathan Dennis said that after negotiations failed, law enforcement officers tried to take suspect into custody, but the suspect raised a gun at authorities and was fatally shot.

The man was identified as Ricky Shiffer, according to three federal law enforcement sources.

The FBI is investigating Shiffer’s social media presence and whether he had ties to right-wing extremism, one of the sources said.

So one man is dead, nevermind that he brought it upon himself.. a man is dead. Because of lies and hatred.

A Truth Social account bearing Shiffer’s name referenced his attempt to storm an FBI office, and also encouraged others online to prepare for a revolutionary-type war, CNN has learned.

His posts are not hard to find if you look, where he sends out a call to arms to kill FBI agents and anyone who stands in his way.

I am, honestly saddened that we now live in a country where a group of people are calling for all out war on their own countrymen. And in a country with such an access to guns... I mean.. I am somewhat surprised there hasn't been a bloodbath already.

[TheGlyphstone]

Called it.

Original WaPo article.

So at least according to the Post, they were hunting for nuclear secrets Trump was attempting to squirrel away.

He's had his bit gloating about secret nuclear capabilities.

This stuff isn't exactly bedtime reading material. Why keep it other than to sell it?

Ego? The man is a pathological narcissist, I can totally see him keeping classified nuclear secrets simply because it means he has secrets no one else does.

[gaggedLouise]

Ego? The man is a pathological narcissist, I can totally see him keeping classified nuclear secrets simply because it means he has secrets no one else does.

Agree - and also, what if there's already been leaks from that top-secret arms project? What if there's been a Klaus Fuchs of sorts? Because if Trump's description of the magnitude of the project is anything to go by, there must have been substantial new research and tech development around this. Even if we're not talking something as big and revolutionary as the Manhattan Project, it must have taken a good deal of new research, and this is stuff that might get filtered out.

Also, it surely wasn't a project initiated by Trump, because this stuff takes time to develop and he seems to have seen it as ready to use already in 2017. Most likely, the decision goes back to the Bush years or perhaps Obama (Bush seems more likely, doesn't it?).

[Vekseid]

  Agree - and also, what if there's already been leaks from that top-secret arms project?

We are talking about nuclear proliferation.

"Who cares if more people learn it because some others may have already" when we are talking about ways to slay millions of people is not a remotely serious argument.

Your nation, and a hundred and ninety others, signed a treaty on this subject.

Also, it surely wasn't a project initiated by Trump, because this stuff takes time to develop and he seems to have seen it as ready to use already in 2017. Most likely, the decision goes back to the Bush years or perhaps Obama (Bush seems more likely, doesn't it?).

Of course he didn't initiate it much less invent it, I don't think anyone seriously believes that. It's just his nature to try and become the originator of everything he finds interesting.

[Thufir Hawat]

This stuff isn't exactly bedtime reading material. Why keep it other than to sell it?

Social media posts are more likely to be Trump's bedtime reading material. And morning reading material, too, come to think of it.
Of course, there's many other reasons to keep those. One of them is influence, being privy to secrets and choosing who to share them with...hopefully someone who has the permits required .
And given that it's Trump, the explanation can be way less logical. Maybe just "it's great...I mean, it's a great weapons system, I am a President, why wouldn't I be allowed to have documents about it?"

I mean, his attention to proper procedures is widely-notori...known .

OTOH, I'm pretty sure there are stiff penalties for compromising the security of such documents. And even some Republicans are bound to see that as "a step too far", IMO. So it's not good news for him.

[gaggedLouise]

We are talking about nuclear proliferation.

"Who cares if more people learn it because some others may have already" when we are talking about ways to slay millions of people is not a remotely serious argument.

Your nation, and a hundred and ninety others, signed a treaty on this subject.

I was certainly not trying to play down the seriousness of the threat posed by the presence of this kind of weapons. Not sure if my use of "what if" was getting misread?

[Swidi]

If they split party, they both become minority. And, democrats would be majority? I dont think, corporate masters donating their money to republicans, want paying for this.

Its like the koch brothers and the other financial elites are Cercei in ASOIAF getting in bed with the high septon. Except it is actually real life and an even more delicate situation. As someone who hates all characters and structures involved in this fiasco, I am watching on with mild interest hoping that they hurt each other spectacularly in the long run. A theocracy or an authoritarian form of government would collapse all american stock markets eventually because these things have a 10-15 year lifespan at best (authoritarian regimes after revolution). Hopefully the next generation will do better than what we did.

[Swidi]

oops sorry did not notice that i was quoting a year old post

[Oniya]

I was certainly not trying to play down the seriousness of the threat posed by the presence of this kind of weapons. Not sure if my use of "what if" was getting misread?

I personally read it as 'What if the FBI got to it too late', as there had been a subpoena regarding these documents back in the spring Times link.  Unfortunately, some people on the GOP side of things are suggesting that 'some nuclear information isn't highly-highly classified'

However, we've got the search warrant  According to another update, federal agents seized just one set of “top secret/SCI” documents, according to the search warrant receipt. Agents took four sets of “top secret” documents, three sets of “secret” documents, and three sets of “confidential” documents.

[Lustful Bride]

Beau puts things into perspective so well and shows some of the anger I'm feeling.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9adxOwl5QA

[gaggedLouise]

I always knew 45 might turn out to be a spy for some dictator - he was just that bit too fascinated with them.  And too vulnerable in his undisciplined greed and lust to skim other people of their money.

This affair is getting beyond embarrassing for the GOP.

[gaggedLouise]

I personally read it as 'What if the FBI got to it too late', as there had been a subpoena regarding these documents back in the spring Times link.  Unfortunately, some people on the GOP side of things are suggesting that 'some nuclear information isn't highly-highly classified'

However, we've got the search warrant  According to another update, federal agents seized just one set of “top secret/SCI” documents, according to the search warrant receipt. Agents took four sets of “top secret” documents, three sets of “secret” documents, and three sets of “confidential” documents.

Yes, you are right - but I also meant: we don't know whether there have been leaks about this top-secret new nuclear project before Trump left office, or even before he came into office - leaks at a lower level, of course. Because this project surely predates Trump himself.

Again, this in no way mitigates the gravity of the allegations now swirling around Trump (and where he seems to be in no hurry at all to clarify anything about the situation).