Impeachment, Take Two (and Other Trump News)

[Oniya]

Right now, Trump is in the center of attention, but in a way that he can't utilize.  Making his bid for 2024 is an attempt to control the narrative.  The guy has been accustomed to people listening to him for decades, and right now they're listening to people talking about him and he can't respond directly.  (Well, he could, but I doubt any competent lawyer would let him.  Giuliani on the other hand - *coughs*)

That said, the few times recently that I've seen polling, it's been suggesting DeSantis might go up against Biden.  I - don't really see Biden making a move for a second term.  Someone else from the Dem side is going to get the party nod.

[Beorning]

Could you guys help me make sense of the headlines I'm seeing? During the last few days, I noticed some commotion regarding Steve Bannon. Also, what's up with these deleted Secret Service text messages (?)?

[TheVillain]

Like I said, I really hope Trump and DeSantis eat each other. DeSantis is basically Trump with less Charisma but more Focus.

And I agree that in a hypothetical presidential election of Biden versus DeSantis, DeSantis would probably win (at least for our system’s definition of winning where the Republicans get a massive advantage and losing the popular vote by 3 million somehow still counts as a nail biter). But, never asked if he’s going to run again in 2024 Biden has always responded one of two ways - “No” or “I’ll think about it if my health holds but even then probably not”. Since were over two years out from the election it’s OK that we have no idea who would take his place, but at the moment the smart money is on the governor of California Gavin Newsom. Obviously this can change though.

Steve Bannon, Who by the way has so many ties to known neo-Nazis and ne Nazi groups that the Daily Stormer called him “Our Man on the Inside” when he was working in the White House, basically got subpoenaed to appear before the January 6 committee and he decided to blow them off. Reportedly, he thinks his connections to Trump makes him immune to the January 6 investigation and still does but he concedes that it will be easier in the long run if he just does it. Also, apparently he and Trump think his testimony would be super persuasive in Trump’s favor? Somehow? He’s on trial for contempt of Congress and just tried it out his “Trump says I’m immune to the committee” argument and the judge went “maybe if Trump is still president, and even then probably not - And if that’s all you got you sure you don’t wanna change your plea?”

As for the Secret Service texts, among their duties is maintaining a presidential diary. It’s been noticed that in the immediate leadup into the events of the 1/6 Failed Insurrection that there’s a seven hour gap in the diary. When asked about it, the Secret Service claims that those materials including the texts were lost in a tech upgrade afterwards. It’s pretty obvious if that’s just a bullshit line, the hard part is proving it.

[Vekseid]

Neither Pence nor Cruz would dare to make a primary run when Trump is also going into the field, would they? Because it would cast them as "traitors" or "RINOs" in the eyes of so much of the party, its top brass and its media. Also, it would force those two men to make some clear statements of what they think about January 6 and the way Trump behaved.

Cruz is a coward. He's too familiar as a coward. Too easy to call him weak. I don't believe he'll try.

Pence is a religious zealot. He will do what he believes is the right thing. This has its good and bad points, but I think there is a very real risk

I think calling 2024 right now, even if Joe Biden is for some reason the nominee, is premature. Two years has been a fair amount of time lately.

Could you guys help me make sense of the headlines I'm seeing? During the last few days, I noticed some commotion regarding Steve Bannon. Also, what's up with these deleted Secret Service text messages (?)?

He's been charged with contempt of Congress for failing to comply with a subpoena.

The Secret Service deleted a bunch of texts from January 5th and 6th. They hoped to be able to recover these, but only one was. This may net prosecution in its own right.

[TheVillain]

Apologies if I didn't make that absolutely clear in my post but yes, calling anything for sure for 2024 at this point is at best premature and at worst irresponsible.

Heck, with Moore v Harper coming up even the idea that there will *be* a 2024 election where the voting itself actually matters is up in the air.


Short Version - Moore v Harper is about "Independent Legislature Theory". The basic idea being that if you squint at the Constitution a certain way, ignore anything not explicitly spelled out in the Amendments, and get a bit creative with the definition of a Legislature you can claim that the Founding Fathers intended for State Legislatures to be able to do whatever they want for national-level elections as long as it isn't explicitly counter to anything in the Constitution.

For example, let's say that in your state the Popular Vote goes toward one party but the State Legislature is controlled by the other party. According to Independent Legislature Theory that state legislature could, say, just toss out the popular vote results and declare that their party won anyway. Which Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin tried to do exactly that in 2020 in favor of Donald Trump.

[gaggedLouise]

This "outtakes tape" with Trump from January 7, as he tries to work through a brief address to the nation (and off a teleprompter) is hilarious, especially his body language and voice mannerisms. "The integrity of the Vote"!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgfezmNy60w

[Missy]

Pardon my random insertion here:



I just don't understand how anyone could not feel just gross for having voted for this guy!?

[Annaamarth]

I just don't understand how anyone could not feel just gross for having voted for this guy!?

Based on my last conversation with my right-leaning father, who raised me to care for others, be empathetic, respect the beliefs and cultures of others, and that anybody who immigrated to the USA was an American, full stop - none of this African-American or Pakistani-American bullshit, everyone deserves to be an American and be a part of this wonderful melting pot culture ...

... my right-leaning father, who remains convinced that there was widespread voter fraud ... (there wasn't)

... my right-leaning father, who tried to tell me that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was, legally speaking, an internal matter because of the phrasing of a 90's era treaty under the Clinton administration ... (I looked it up, at that's not what it says)

... my right-leaning father, who feels that the United States currently appears the "weakest it has ever looked in his life", and that the US armed forces are doing everything they can to drive every soldier, sailor and airmen out of the ranks ...

Based on my last conversation with my right-leaning father, support for Trump is coming from fear.  Fear based in fascistic ideology and lies, but fear.  He might feel gross voting for Trump, in the same way I felt gross voting for Biden/Harris - because they don't have ideal histories or platforms.

sigh

I don't think I'll have the energy to talk to my father again for awhile.

[Azy]

To me, it seems like there are two problems.  One of the biggest is party loyalty.  Me, I'm registered as a Democrat, but if a Democrat candidate acted like this I'd be just as disgusted with that person.  It just seems like the GOP wants to hold on to their power, and there is nothing they won't sink to.  This is mostly in party leadership and elected officials.  Of course public figures are also towing the party line, no matter how crazy what they're told to say sounds. 

With the average person, it's ignorance.  They pick a news outlet that says what they like to hear, because bias is part of the human condition.  They blindly believe what they are told.  They don't look into it any further because that would require effort.  Also, they are told that the outlet they are currently listening to is the only one that can be trusted.  Everyone else has been corrupted by the liberals to lie.  A little independent thought goes a long way, but those still waving the Trump flag don't seem capable of that.   

[Laughing Hyena]

It's not just an issue limited to one party regrettably. My mother and aunt maintain themselves to be conservative democrats  that became Trump supporters due to how 45s administration was doing during the first two years.

My aunt was keen to defend Obama, heck she even voted against Trump in 2016 (dunno if mom didn't) but both Mom and her fell into the information silo of Fox, Newsmax and OAN and never managed to pull themselves out of it. My aunt refuses to watch anything else.  It's a very hard thing to escape once deep enough. So much so that they bought the grooming of a rigged election in 2022. And of course the inflation being local to the US and all Biden's fault.

It's impossible to argue with them and I refuse to talk politics with them. My own impressions from these past years is that a conservative is at risk at being drawn to Fox News and like minded news. It makes it easy to fall into that trap.

[Oniya]

I'm somewhat encouraged by the fact that Fox has apparently stopped covering Trump as much.

https://thehill.com/homenews/3577133-dynamic-shifts-between-fox-news-donald-trump/

[gaggedLouise]

If it hadn't been for the pandemic coming along and changing both the economy and the landscape leading into the election (higher acceptance for mail-in voting, etc) - and Trump mishandling it in so many ways - then Trump probably would have won a second term, on the strength of the economy and MAGA enthusiasm (and a sense of vengeance: "we'll show the Washington scum!"). I don't think it would have been a politically justified win, but that's the way it would most likely have played out. And the outcome would have been disastrous.

It's a very hard thought to digest that Trump came fairly close to winning on formally legit terms, but with today's political climate where political leaders often think "our No.1 job is to win the election, and after that we can do whatever we can get away with", this lack of responsibility is gaining ground.

[gaggedLouise]

This is as ridiculous as it is logical. We've known for a long time that Trump was steadily fighting the routines of strict documentation, annotation and later archiving of most things that happen around the White House and the Office (and person) of POTUS - he didn't want other people to be able to look over his shoulder, check his notes, see whom he had been seeing or talking to, examine his memos and so on - not in the present and not in the future. So he would rip up some documents and briefings after he had read them, avoid using his official phone lines for anything that could be "sensitive" to himself (like calling state senators and urging them to decertify the vote, or talking to people like Roger Stone, Patrick Byrne, Alex Jones and Sean Hannity). Now, photos have surfaced of actual instances when he attempted to flush ripped-up papers down the loo! One is from the White House, the other is said to have originated on an overseas trip (to meet Kim Jong-un?). And both of them in his own handwriting.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/08/politics/trump-white-house-notes-toilet-photos-cnntv/index.html

[Beorning]

Wow :)

Not sure if this beats our own Prime Minister and some other government members conducting government-related business on Gmail, but... wow :)

[Oniya]

For those of us that read the Mueller Report, this was a vindicating headline to read:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/paul-manafort-russia-polling-data-b2140727.html

'Ex-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort admits sharing info with Russians'

(There's also an article in Business Insider, but I don't have an 'Insider Account'.)

[gaggedLouise]

The FBI has made a sudden search of Trump's house at Mar-A-Lago and even accessed his safe.  This is all over the headlines now, and we know it from a long, angry statement by Trump himself - he wasn't at home at the time.  One of the purposes of the raid seems to have been to secure some of the many boxes of WH documents Trump bruight with him when he left office - presidential records that rightfuly belong at the National Archives.

This is historical, no earlier president has ever had a post-tenure visit to his home by the FBI demanding to see his files.

My mother's a retired state archivist (and about as thrilled with Trump as I am) - I can't wait to hear what she'll say about this. 

[Vekseid]

I have to imagine they have something so incontrovertibly damning on him it would give the most stalwart Trump-supporter pause. "Sold us out to China" level damning.

[Sara Nilsson]

You think there is anything that could get his most die hard fans to pause? It seems to me he could punch them in the nuts and they would cheer him on.

I mean you see some of them claim that after Jesus trump is the second best thing to happen to the world. TO me it just seems like cultish brainwashing, and we seen enough of those follow their leader into death.

[gaggedLouise]

I have to imagine they have something so incontrovertibly damning on him it would give the most stalwart Trump-supporter pause. "Sold us out to China" level damning.

Yes, the mere offence of bringing many crates and boxes of records from his administration to his Florida home instead of leaving them to the NA certainly won't do. In any case it's been known ever since he left office, so if that was it, they would have come in and seized them long ago. There's sure to be a much more damning reason for this unique move.

[Missy]

I have to imagine they have something so incontrovertibly damning on him it would give the most stalwart Trump-supporter pause. "Sold us out to China" level damning.

I'm sure he knows what he's doing, besides our new Chinese overlords use whips on us now! Why would anyone be bothered by that!?

[Laughing Hyena]

Considering how my mother and aunt are, that may be the one thing that could rethink their past choices. Assuming they believed the evidence and were not convinced it was (pardon the pun) trumped up charges by say Newsmax or Fox News. I imagine that the reporters on those channels are already spinning their yarns.

My folks will be upset over this more than anything and considering the gas prices lowering little by little (they're still under the impression that were still in a recession caused by Biden, because reasons) I can only imagine I'll be hearing no end of it or get any sleep.

So I pray this is something so overwhelming, that it cannot be denied, spun or rebuked. That whatever was found proved that many were deceived, tricked and duped by 45.

[Iniquitous]

My father is a die hard supporter and he says it is all just to keep him from running and winning again. I pointed out several things - like him inciting his weapon carrying supporters to storm the capital - and he said it was all 'heresay' and made up by the media.  So no, even this wont get the truly brainwashed nutjobs to see the truth.

[Sara Nilsson]

My father is a die hard supporter and he says it is all just to keep him from running and winning again.

I just talked to hubby about it, and he said the same. Its all a ploy to prevent him from running again. And my husband isn't a trumper as such, he is more than willing to complain about trump when trump did something stupid. So we will see.

[Callie Del Noire]

He’s used to delaying the courts he’ll be thru primaries before anything comes out of court

[Vekseid]

You think there is anything that could get his most die hard fans to pause? It seems to me he could punch them in the nuts and they would cheer him on.

I mean you see some of them claim that after Jesus trump is the second best thing to happen to the world. TO me it just seems like cultish brainwashing, and we seen enough of those follow their leader into death.

There is an inherent idea of patriotism in his worshipers, however misguided. China's rise concerns many if not most of them.

He has done a lot for Chinese interests, some rather brazenly.

The rumors seem to be the documents may be related to some blackmail scheme, for some purpose.