▸▸ℍeavy Metal Magellan◂◂ free-form, original mech roleplay (full)

[Urbanzorro]

Personally I think the biggest thing is making sure that there are ways for the GM to create challenges for each mech, ideally these should also sometimes ones that they can't overcome without the help of the others. With that in mind I think either making the cloaking devices less of a near perfect form of concealment could work. Alternatively you could also have them run off of their own battery systems meaning they can only be used for so much time before needing to be shut down and recharged. Similar to how one of the weaknesses of submarines during WWII (especially the early war) was that they ran on batteries while submerged and these batteries didn't last very long compared to how long a sea voyage would take. So the standard practice was to cruise on the surface and submerge when the need to avoid detection arose. I think maybe working in either one of those concepts might make the systems seem a bit more fitting in with what I think you have in mind for the setting. Basically they could be something that is currently very cutting edge. But as with anything that is at the very highest levels of human technology it's application still has some issues that have yet to be ironed out. 

[Saria]

Ah, sorry I haven't been able to read through or respond to anything yet today, but I had some unexpected social obligations pop up!

Personally I think the biggest thing is making sure that there are ways for the GM to create challenges for each mech, ideally these should also sometimes ones that they can't overcome without the help of the others.

I just wanted to single this out and say: "yes, precisely that."

For those people who have made a really strong melée mech and are stressing about how to give it some ranged ability, I say: don't.

Or you've made a mech that's perfect for fighting from range but totally weak if the enemies get to close and you're wondering how to plug that hole, I say: stop.

Same for if you've got a mech tailor-made for large, massive enemies but totally vulnerable to being swarmed by dudes in power suits... or if you've got one that can mow down dudes in power suits but would be a gnat to a really big mech. Whatever your mech is good at, embrace it, and just don't bother at all about the rest - not even minimally.

It is far better - from my perspective, as GM - to have a handful of mechs that are all really awesome at just one thing and total crap at everything else (yet of course, everyone's really awesome at something different), than it is to have "balanced" mechs that can handle every situation even if only in a mediocre way.

When a mech has a few well-defined strengths and a bunch of well-defined weaknesses, it is really easy for me to concoct scenarios where that one specific strength is absolutely needed, and thus you become the star of the scene with everyone covering or supporting you.

Take the Ragnarok for example. That big-ass beast is a walking fort, yet it could be taken down by a team of a half-dozen or Valkyrias like the one Deep is in (properly armed, of course) - all they'd need to do is race around her taking pot shots when its safe, but keeping just at the limit of its rocket range (or using countermeasures). That wild imbalance is perfect for setting up scenarios - I can think of easily a half-dozen situations where the Ragnarok's brute power or massive rail gun could be the critical keystone to a whole mission... and at the same time I can think of a bunch of scenarios where its size and slowness are key handicaps that force radical and crazy mission alternatives (where other specialist mechs would shine).

But when a mech is too "balanced", or has too many bases covered... what can I do? I can't create scenarios where, "guys, what we need here is a mech that can fight close range... and long range... and out in the open... and stealthily... but it all has to be just one mech - can't be two or more where each provides one of the elements really well! - and it's okay if that one mech is not really all that great at all of these things." I mean.. put yourself in my shoes. What kind of scenario would work for that mech?

If your mech has a clear strength and glaring weakness, then it will be needed and summoned by other players when that strength is a plus, and other players will come to your side to help when your weakness is exploited. If I'm being attacked by a tank and I'm weak to tanks, I'ma calling the tank killer, not the mediocre all-round guy... if I'm being attacked by a titan mech then I'ma calling the anti-titan-mech ally, not the one who is meh at fighting titans because it's balanced. In what situation am I going to think, "well, I really need the help of that mech that's not really good at anything in particular"?

Balance is great for soloing, but not all that great for teamwork. A two-person team that had one astonishingly awesome offensive player who sucked balls at defence and another who rocks the world at defence but has no offensive sense at all would be a much better team than one made up of two people who were both mediocre at offence and defence. And this is a team game - I promise you I am not the least bit interested in setting up scenarios where one person takes the starring role and everyone else just watches; the scenarios I set up will highlight one or two mechs, but all the other mechs will have necessary support roles to play.

It just makes my job harder when your mech doesn't have any clear strengths and clear weaknesses I can work from. And as this isn't a job I'm getting paid for, if it gets too hard, I ain't gonna do it. So if your mech doesn't provide me with really good hooks to work a scenario around them, I'm just not going to bother setting up scenarios for them to shine in.

So do keep that in mind when setting up your mech: If your mech has no weaknesses - and I mean glaring weaknesses, not so-so weaknesses like "not so great at melée but still can handle itself" or "works great usually but randomly stalls" - then I can't craft scenarios around them. It is better to have a mech with one or two strong strengths and then a bunch of weaknesses than it is to have one that is so-so all round. If your mech is capable of at least holding its own in all or most situations... well, that's exactly what's going to end up happening: it's going to holding its own a lot - ie, working alone, not playing a pivotal role in the scene. Your role in scenarios will be the "other guys", while the key strength roles are filled with the mechs that have those key strengths, and the ones with the key weakness will have the missions shaped around protecting them. There simply are no key roles for "meh, but broadly so", only broadly meh roles.

Try thinking of it from the GM perspective. What kind of scenario would require your mech's talents... and the talents of only your mech - not the combined talents of a group who are each individually better at each thing you're so-so at? What kind of situation would be one where your mech is a star player, and not simply another body on the field? Those questions are easy to answer if your mech has one really good relevant strength - even if that means it has a bunch of weaknesses (which are a really good thing from a GM perspective). They're not so easy to answer if you spend too much effort making your mech moderately capable at every little thing.

[Giantmutantcrab]

Well, I hope my re-write of certain subystems clarifies certain things for my mech.  I never had the intention of making it into an over-powered Xenogears type of mech.  :)

[King Serperior]

I couldn't have said it better myself, Saria.  As you said, the Ragnarok is going to need some serious help defensively when the smaller mechs come running.  Need to blast that Heavy mech up on that rock?  Sure, just keep those two Light mechs off my tail while I knock that big one down to let the Battle Armors cross the no-man's zone and get into the base!



@GMC:  I'll take a look at the changes as soon as I can.  Though, when Saria gets the time (as well as anyone else), I'd like their opinions before I continue with mine.

[Urbanzorro]

I think a good example that illustrates the way that a balance of strengths and weaknesses as a team is a situation where the group faces a large, heavily armored AND heavily armed opponent, maybe some epic sized mech that has weapons so strong as to make a stand up fight a very bad idea. In such a situation it could be easy to see how the team might make a plan where they have Angela pull all the stops on Ragnarok's rail gun and then having Deep use her Valkyria's ECM abilities to cover an approach so that Leo can pain the target with Jack's targeting beam which then allows Angela to take it out while the other mechs provide protection to Ragnarok or covering fire for Valkyrai and Jack's approach. In such a scenario the three mechs which shine are the one's who's abilities fit the missions' needs while the others fall into a supporting role. Then in the next scenario maybe the enemy has fast moving small mechs and a really really good radar station making the mechs who shined just one scene ago now forced to fill the supporting role while other mechs have some time in the limelight.

Just my two cents

[Saria]

Oh, there's no doubt that I could design a scenario that uses everyone in a somewhat important capacity. But I can't do every scenario like that. Even doing one is a hell of a task to pull off; doing it repeatedly would just be ridiculous and transparent. I don't have anywhere near the motivation to jump through hoops to make sure everyone has a somewhat important task in every mission - it's much easier to work things up that make a couple important, and then just vary which ones. If you want your mech to have important roles in missions, I'd say it's your job to give your mech a role that could be important. Don't rely solely on the GM's imagination.

I've mostly been keeping quiet on the mech profile critiques because I don't really know much about mechs. Engineering and physics, sure, but the only mech shows I've seen have been a couple of early Gundams, and the only game I've played is Front Mission 4. I decided to focus on character profiles, but it turns out that everyone wrote really good characters - no Mary Sues or such - so I haven't had much to say.

And if a balanced mech is the way you want to play, then go for it. On the plus side, you get to be a second-tier player in basically every scene... just always a second-tier player, rather than the star of some scenes and a background character in others (though it's my job as GM to minimize the latter). If that's the way you want to roll, that's fine.

I'm just honestly a little baffled at the way most everyone's been so insistent on making sure their mech is capable in every foreseeable situation. (Although, you underestimate my ability to create non-foreseeable situations!) I can't fathom why people would go out of their way to make their mech a less interesting part of the team.

Because, for example, when we lose an unbalanced specialist, that's a big deal - it requires changing all of our strategies, closing some doors but opening others. Like if we lost Athena and the Arion, that would be a disaster. We wouldn't have that perfect mech for going into bases and bunkers while we skirmish outside, and turning off that main weapon that's giving us so much trouble, or opening up that door that kept us pinned down. Any strategies we had taking advantage of that would have to be scrapped, and we'd have to start over. That's major story stuff!

But when a really balanced mech is lost, it's like, "Oh no, we lost Charlie! Now we can't... well, actually, we can still do everything we could before right? I mean, we've lost no key specialists. I guess there's one less unit, so we're a group of 7 instead of a group of 8, which blows a bit I suppose... but we haven't really lost any capabilities. So, uh, oh no we've lost 12% of our combat strength? Sorta?"

I suppose it's a little late to be bringing this view up, but I thought those who were still agonizing over covering every single base could do with a fresh perspective.

[akirakaneda]

Well, I have corrected some issues of my sheet, I also wanted to ask which are the mechas that are available for the Ryazan's army. At least the standard ones should be relatively known by other nations, maybe its general characteristics at the very least?

Second, I know that the limit to post the sheets is today, but may I post the sheet of a potential second pilot tomorrow or later, when the RP had advanced a bit?

[King Serperior]

Well, I have corrected some issues of my sheet, I also wanted to ask which are the mechas that are available for the Ryazan's army. At least the standard ones should be relatively known by other nations, maybe its general characteristics at the very least?

Okay, I've taken a look at the changes and I don't see quite as many problems.  However, even with a powerful booster, 220kph speed is a lot for a mech of that size.  I would say that about 80kph without the booster and about 120kph with it is more reasonable.  Also, I am glad to see that that booster is not fixed.  Removing it at some point in the future would seem like a good idea as, if the mech is carrying a booster of that size on it's back, it will make maneuvering beyond a straight line difficult as it will be rather off balance.

As for the mechs of the Ryazan's Army, I haven't thought of them much.  I have some ideas, however.

Second, I know that the limit to post the sheets is today, but may I post the sheet of a potential second pilot tomorrow or later, when the RP had advanced a bit?

If you feel that you can play two characters at once, go ahead.  However, it might be better to make the second character an NPC so that the main focus will be on your main character and the other one can play a 'supporting' role for the main.  The second one wouldn't get near the attention as the main, though.  Also, the secondary character has a higher chance of death than a main character at some point.

[Kiric Rand]

Honestly, that is why I made Alex so combat oriented. Yes his mech may be able to do more, but all he really knows is combat.

[King Serperior]

Okay, I was looking at the mechs again and came to notice something:  Kiric, your character's mech reads as 50 miles per hour at top speed.  I originally read it as kilometers per hour.  As a Heavy mech class, it is more likely that it would be 50kph rather than 50mph.

[Kiric Rand]

Okay, I was looking at the mechs again and came to notice something:  Kiric, your character's mech reads as 50 miles per hour at top speed.  I originally read it as kilometers per hour.  As a Heavy mech class, it is more likely that it would be 50kph rather than 50mph.

Yeah, i really didn't know how to convert kph and mph lol.

[King Serperior]

Yeah, i really didn't know how to convert kph and mph lol.

50kph translates into about 30mph or so, give or take 1-2 miles.  Don't worry though.  I am not good at that either.  I usually go to a miles-to-kilometers translator.  >.>

[Kiric Rand]

Ok. Will change it when I get home

[Giantmutantcrab]

One mile per hour is equal to 1.6 kilometer an hour.

So 100 km/hr = 60 m/hr

And in the case that interests us, 50 km/hour is equivalent to 31 m/hour

[Saria]

Ah, you Americans and your quirky "miles", and "feet", and "fathoms", and "leagues". ~tut tuts with a sense of supreme superiority~

[Karma]

We don't like it either.

[Giantmutantcrab]

Karma,

I took a second to read the text under your avatar picture.  This is my way of dealing with your avatar picture.  It is beautiful and I see absolutely no problem with it at all.  In fact, I'd very much like the chance to join them as that looks like a great kiss.

[Saria]

I choose to deal with it by eating copious amounts of ice cream.

But then, this is how I deal with everything. ~nods~

Same-sex couple making out without me? Bring on the ice cream!

Economic crisis? Bring on the ice cream!

I found a $20 bill? Bring on the ice cream! (Because now I can afford it!)

Global warming? Bring on the ice cream! (It totally makes sense in that context!)

[Kiric Rand]

I tend to deal with all situations with the same method.

which usually means booting up a video game and going on violent rampages.....

maybe because I have a lot of rage and that is the only way i can go on rampages without ending up in jail

[Saria]

That's how I deal with my rage, too. I have a driving game where you get extra points for driving more recklessly and causing more damage.

[King Serperior]

Something just occurred to me:  Considering that this game's setting is a fair distance into the future, how much have the climates changed?  I mean, will we drop into a cold, snowy area?  Or a hot, arid one?  Or maybe a swampy or even a forest-filled or mountainous area?

[Ralhend]

I wouldnt think they had changed much, unless there was a nuclear war in the past or a small comet hit the earth, etc...  Something that would cause a drastic change in the earths rotation or orbit.... *shrugs*

[Saria]

I hadn't planned anything in particular for the drop area beyond standard temperate out-of-the way: trees, hilly, but that's about it.

But for the overall journey, I'd planned to take us through several climates - I mean it's a really long trip. Snow and cold are definitely in order, as is a basically desert area. Also marshes and even coastal areas. (For the obligatory beach episode. )

One thing I thought would be really neat - and I was going to run this by you once we were done with all the initial set up - would be "dead cities". My thinking was: A few years ago, in one (or more) of the many sporadic small-scale outbreaks of war common in the regions we're passing through, a chemical or biological agent was unleashed. This had the effect of scouring entire cities of human life. The agents have long since been inert, but in the vast majority of cases, no new population has moved in (either out of fear, superstition, whatever).

Hence, dead cities. Cities that have been abandoned for years, if not decades, and are thus somewhat overgrown and crumbling. Excellent areas for us to pass through while being hard to detect. Excellent locations for a fight that takes down entire buildings.

In some cases the cities could have been "cleaned" by the local authorities - removing the bodies and any dangerous/expensive materials. In others, there could be skeletons all over the place, and maybe not even scavengers have come through to steal the valuables. The enemies we run into here could be the military hunting us, but they could just as easily be scavengers or other outlaws who we bump into, or who are using the area as a base and aren't pleased to have visitors.

But like I said, we can talk this through later on, once all the set up is complete.

But yeah, we'll be passing through many different types of terrain. As for where we start, I hadn't given it serious thought. Anything in particular you'd like?

[King Serperior]

Ooooh!  I love the idea of these dead cities!  In fact, I had an idea for a city that was bombed multiple times that was taken over by a gang that planted landmines all over and had hover tanks patrolling over the fields.   

That said, thanks for the clarification!  We'll focus in the specifics later.  I think we're just waiting on some final updates to the last three character sheets, one of which I believe is almost done.

[Karma]

But hover tanks need antigrav.