Kim Davis, Marriage Licenses, etc. (split from News)

[Blythe]

Double post--okay, hopefully this time that's all the posts that needed to be here. Derped and forgot a large part of the convo--should be fixed now. ^^

[Cycle]

Now she's saying the licenses issued by the deputies are supposedly "void."  Never mind that is just flat out wrong, per the County's own attorney.  This position again reveals her true colors.  Kim Davis simply does not want same sex couples to ever enjoy marriage--under any circumstances.

Hey, Ms. Davis: " 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'  There is no other commandment greater than these.”  Mark 12:31.

You got four marriage licenses.  Why can't other people have even one?

[Jag]

Many of her supporters are stating that her previous marriages were from before she found God and therefore cannot be used as an argument. 

[Oniya]

Numbers 30:2

"If a man makes a vow to the LORD, or takes an oath to bind himself with a binding obligation, he shall not violate his word; he shall do according to all that proceeds out of his mouth.

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=21176

30A.020   Oath of clerk and deputies.
Every  clerk  and  deputy,  in  addition  to  the  oath  prescribed  by  Section  228  of  the Constitution, shall, before entering on the duties of his office, take the following oath in presence  of  the  Circuit  Court:    "I,  .....,  do  swear  that  I  will  well  and  truly  discharge  the duties  of  the  office  of  ..............  County  Circuit  Court  clerk,  according  to  the  best  of  my skill and judgment, making the due entries and records of all orders, judgments, decrees, opinions and proceedings of the court, and carefully filing and preserving in my office all books and papers which come to my possession by virtue of my office; and that I will not knowingly or willingly commit any malfeasance of office, and will faithfully execute the duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality, so help me God."  The fact that the oath has been administered shall be entered on the record of the Circuit Court.

[Iniquitous]

Many of her supporters are stating that her previous marriages were from before she found God and therefore cannot be used as an argument. 

And all you do then is quote Matthew 5 to them. Specifically:

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Oh, and Oniya has it right about the whole taking an oath... could always quote:

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths




All in the book of Matthew, chapter 5.

And anyone claiming that she is born again now and nothing prior to her being saved counts - Jesus flat out stated his coming to earth did not invalidate the laws of the Old Testament.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


And this - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zack-hunt/the-biblical-problem-with-kentucky-clerk-kim-davis_b_8071506.html  - is definitely worth a read.

[Lustful Bride]

And all you do then is quote Matthew 5 to them. Specifically:

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Oh, and Oniya has it right about the whole taking an oath... could always quote:

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths




All in the book of Matthew, chapter 5.

And anyone claiming that she is born again now and nothing prior to her being saved counts - Jesus flat out stated his coming to earth did not invalidate the laws of the Old Testament.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


And this - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/zack-hunt/the-biblical-problem-with-kentucky-clerk-kim-davis_b_8071506.html  - is definitely worth a read.

The longer this goes on the more I just want to shake my head. She is the worst example of...well everything come to think of it.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

*Insert the usual 'this is why we cant have nice things' joke*

[Jag]

So, I haven't been involved in my hubby's Asatru stuff in a while, but they used to talk about the things done to Oathbreakers. If we should uphold her right to keep her position and continuing pulling money in from it for religious reasons, but while cutting out a portion of her duties...then should we uphold the rights of the Asatrus and what they do to Oathbreakers? Which would basically be restitution to those she broke her oath to? Us the people of Kentucky? What would be proper restitution for something like this? Possibly back payment of her salary for the part of her job she didn't do?

[Cycle]

Interesting point, Jagerin.  Well, I supposed the judge could impose a financial penalty of $219.18 per day (which will add up to $80,000 in one year--the equivalent of her salary, for the job she's not doing while sitting in jail), plus the cost to house and feed her every day (say, $500).  Make it a nice even $720 per day she refuses to obey the court order.

I'm sure there are plenty of rich bigots who will happily pay that for Ms. Davis.  Then your county wouldn't be out any money as a result of her nonsense.

[Jag]

Not my county...though there are plenty of people in mine that are in full support of her. Same people who ran the lingerie store out of town for being too racy, but made 50 Shades of Grey a sold out film in our theater. We do have a lot of people lining up to help her financially. It was crazy trying to drive through town the other day. They were all out there. I was surprised I didn't see the little white baggies of white rice with the KKK meeting flyers being passed around. No, they'd rather leave those in our drive way. 

Most of the people against her were calling for fines and fees. The judge felt that jail time would be better for her. Personally, I would have gone with fining her ass. Eventually, even her supporters would get tired of paying them off for her.

[Oniya]

My brain hurts now.  The Westboros have gotten involved in this.  They are agreeing that the judge should have jailed Kim Davis and are declaring her an oath-breaker. 

[Iniquitous]

I read something about them getting involved. I couldn't figure out why they are not on her side so I closed the article. I wasn't up to the task of trying to understand.

[kylie]

     I'm not really bothered by the imagery of having her in jail.  If the state is going to send people to jail for protesting the Iraq war by the thousands in generally proper ways (most of the more visible police measures were ruled illegal months or years later in New York), then isn't this a much clearer case of state policy being enforced against someone who's clearly violated it?  It isn't the death penalty and maybe at some point, I want to see some consistency. 

      She could simply resign the post, or perhaps move to Canada (ahem, that was a jab at rightists not having a clue about Canada, strike that!) say, Uganda in the spirit of another generation of conscientious objectors if she say feels "her country" is so ruined...  Or she could join a movement against our reliance on the prison system...  But oh, then that would have to include using the prison system to haul in people who distribute the "wrong" kinds of publications by mail when some local postmaster goes on a rampage, or against people who have sex in the park restrooms on the basis of "indecent" or purportedly "threats to the children." 

     The judge has a point too:  If she can find money to cover this, how is exacting fines without jailing her going to help?  At least this way, the policy goes forward with people issuing licenses.  I suppose I can also understand the desire not to be "as nasty as the Christian right has been" when involving the state by demanding such punitive measures, but when she's not likely to be ejected from office --whatever else would work to that end?

     

[Mithlomwen]

My brain hurts now.  The Westboros have gotten involved in this.  They are agreeing that the judge should have jailed Kim Davis and are declaring her an oath-breaker.

That makes my head hurt too. 

I read a news article today that said she and her lawyers are going to appeal the charges. 

[Jazra]

It's a sad situation. Kim Davis is 100% wrong. While I hate anyone to go to jail for taking a stand of conscience, this is probably the least damaging way of having her reflect on her decision. The keys to release are literally in her hands.

I actually enjoyed the Huffington Post Article that listed four reasons she's wrong from a Christian perspective (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-boeskool/four-reasons-kim-davis-is-wrong_b_8074614.html.). But I don't think she's the kind of woman who is going to be persuaded by rational reasons.

[Jag]

My brain hurts now.  The Westboros have gotten involved in this.  They are agreeing that the judge should have jailed Kim Davis and are declaring her an oath-breaker.

Who let those nutjobs out of their box again? >.>

But hey, if even the local hate group looks down on you for condoning what they condone, you know you're doing something wrong. Right?

I think I worded that right. >.<

[Caehlim]

I don't know who this is a quote from, but I heard it the other day and think it covers the situation well.

"If you wouldn't support a Muslim denying a heterosexual couple a marriage license because the woman wasn't wearing a hijab, then no you're not supporting Kim Davis because you believe in religious freedom."

[BCdan]

A religious pacifist may obtain a religious exemption in order to abstain from compulsory enrollment in the army, which would force that soldier to fight in contravention of his morals.

A religious pacifist may not enlist in the army, draw a soldiers salary, and then refuse to fight the enemy when the time comes on account of his religious conviction. 

[Cycle]

The Judge just ordered Kim Davis released from jail because he is satisfied marriage licenses are now being issued in that County.  He also ordered her not to interfere with her deputies when they issue licenses going forward, and she's supposed to give him a status report in two weeks.

Let's see if Ms. Davis will behave...

[Zakharra]

 I am doubting she will not interfere. She's the type that doesn't know when to quit and will stick her nose and fingers into places they don't belong. As much as she doesn't like it, she does NOT have the authority to deny marriage licenses to hetero or homo sexual couples, regardless of her religious beliefs. She would have likely mostly been ignored if she had let her deputy clerks do it if she had a religious objection about it.

[Mithlomwen]

I am doubting she will not interfere.

I agree.  If I'm not mistaken she's already  stated that she will not allow any of her deputies to issue licenses to same sex couples.  But that was before she was sent to jail.  But I'm pretty sure she will go right back to refusing to issue them.  Her lawyers have stated that she remains 'steadfast' in her beliefs. 

Mike Huckabee was supposed to visit her today in support of her decisions.

[Oniya]

Mike Huckabee was supposed to visit her today in support of her decisions.

So was Ted Cruz.

[kylie]

     Huckabee speaking at a rally for Davis:

“If somebody needs to go to jail, I’m willing to go in her place, and I mean that,” Huckabee said. “I’m tired of watching people being harassed because they believe something of their faith.”

     Oh, if only sending him to jail would ensure people issued the licenses!  Dang it.    But wow, how often do these raving conservatives claim they're willing to do some odd drastic "risky" thing that when you look closely, well they can be pretty sure by their own remove from the case that the conditions will never be nearly right for them to actually be put to the test. 

     "Harassed."  Who has been forcefully lobotimizing their kids for being Christian, and vaguely calling their beliefs generally "bad for the children," (though I could probably think of some better reasons we might do so specifically and with evidence) and refusing to allow them to marry lately?  Pff.  I believe something of their faith too -- these factions don't know a whole lot about the origins of that there Book, nor do they really want to.

[Ariel]

The Judge just ordered Kim Davis released from jail because he is satisfied marriage licenses are now being issued in that County.  He also ordered her not to interfere with her deputies when they issue licenses going forward, and she's supposed to give him a status report in two weeks.

Let's see if Ms. Davis will behave...

Wait a second. So she wasn't fired? She's seriously able to go right back to her job?

... I just.. wow.

[Zakharra]

Wait a second. So she wasn't fired? She's seriously able to go right back to her job?

... I just.. wow.

I believe the only ones who can fire her is the governing body of the Kentucky county she lives in (or the Kentucky legislature), and they aren't in session atm.

[Mithlomwen]

Wait a second. So she wasn't fired? She's seriously able to go right back to her job?

... I just.. wow.

Yup.  She's an elected official so she can't technically be fired in the usual way.