Kim Davis, Marriage Licenses, etc. (split from News)

[Cycle]

I heard on the news this morning that the judge can keep her in jail for up to 18 months. 

I think a Federal Judge can keep Ms. Davis in there for as long as the Judge thinks it may coerce her to comply with the order.  There was one guy that they kept in the slammer for 14 years...  Maybe Ms. Davis is going for the record?  Though on a practical level, if he just keeps her in there until her term expires, then the issue would be mooted.

[Valerian]

A quick Google search shows that her term doesn't expire until the beginning of 2019.  So that would be a considerable length of time, even if nowhere near the record...

[Jag]

Also some clarification on the jail time: it's not just for refusing to do the licenses.  There was also some contempt of court, apparently, which courts tend to get grumpy about. 

The most recent court appearance had nothing to do with the refusing of the licenses. It was all the contempt of court. She had been told weeks ago by a judge that she had to start issuing licenses or at least allow her staff to do it (which she wouldn't, because it would still be considered her approval at the time). So she appealed and the recent judge held the contempt hearing and was basically asking her if she intended to follow the ruling handed down by the previous judge. She said no, so she was held in contempt of court for a previous ruling.

As for her office staff, about an hour before the court hearing, there was an article put up that many people in her office feared trying to issue licenses due to the ramifications she would bring down on them. She was elected, they were hired. They feared she would fire them.

[Oniya]

As for her office staff, about an hour before the court hearing, there was an article put up that many people in her office feared trying to issue licenses due to the ramifications she would bring down on them. She was elected, they were hired. They feared she would fire them.

That was the general impression that I had of the situation.

[Mithlomwen]

The thing that I can't figure out, is that she (and those that support her) are screaming that she is being persecuted for her beliefs. 

But...I don't understand how what she's been doing (in refusing to issue licenses to gay couples) is not persecution to the couples?

[Oniya]

Simple.  It is persecution of those couples.  She is not being persecuted for her beliefs - she is suffering the consequences of not following a court order to perform the duties that she swore an oath to perform.  (By the way, the Bible isn't too keen on people forswearing themselves either.)  To say that she is 'simply' following a Biblical mandate not to support homosexuality is frankly hypocritical, as she has not bothered to check to see if any of the heterosexual couples she's issued a license to have been previously divorced (which the Bible denounces as adultery).

If you refuse to make a BLT because 'pigs are unclean', you don't get to turn around and make a ham and Swiss on rye without getting called on it.

[Mithlomwen]

Oh, sorry I should have clarified.  I personally understand why it is that she's in jail.  What I can't figure out is how she (and the people support her) can claim persecution when she (and her supporters) are persecuting others.  I can't wrap my brain around how she feels justified to persecute others, but is indignant when she feels she's being persecuted. 

It's like the pot calling the kettle black. 

[TheGlyphstone]

Oh, sorry I should have clarified.  I personally understand why it is that she's in jail.  What I can't figure out is how she (and the people support her) can claim persecution when she (and her supporters) are persecuting others.  I can't wrap my brain around how she feels justified to persecute others, but is indignant when she feels she's being persecuted. 

It's like the pot calling the kettle black.

That's pretty much how extremism and intolerance works, really. When you do it, it's okay/acceptable/God's Will. When someone else does it, it's unfair/bigotry/persecution/violation of your religious rights. Hypocritical, yeah.

[Oniya]

It very much is.  My point was that she and her supporters are either being hypocritical or plain old idiots.

[Mithlomwen]

It very much is.  My point was that she and her supporters are either being hypocritical or plain old idiots.

Or both. 

That's pretty much how extremism and intolerance works, really. When you do it, it's okay/acceptable/God's Will. When someone else does it, it's unfair/bigotry/persecution/violation of your religious rights. Hypocritical, yeah.

Very much so. 

[Valerian]

It's fascinating to watch Jeb Bush try to be on all sides of this issue at once:

"She is sworn to uphold the law," Bush told reporters in New Hampshire, according to BuzzFeed, suggesting that taking Davis into custody was the right call. However, he went on to explain that while he's against discrimination, he's in favor of letting people express their discriminatory religious views.

Noting that it's "a sign of leadership" to be able to solve such problems, Bush suggested a compromise: Just let someone else in the office issue marriage licenses to gay couples.

This last, of course, is one of the compromises that Davis has already rejected.

The article also calls Bush "the Schrödinger's cat of civil rights issues".  I liked that.   

[Cycle]

What I can't figure out is how she (and the people support her) can claim persecution when she (and her supporters) are persecuting others.  I can't wrap my brain around how she feels justified to persecute others, but is indignant when she feels she's being persecuted. 

My feeling is that this now a front she's put on, for personal gain.  Alas, GoFundMe's recent policy change means she won't be able to cash in that way.  But I bet a talking head gig on some cable show will still pay decent bucks.  Maybe a book deal too.  And a movie...  Think Angelina Jolie would be interested in playing lead?  No wait.  Better yet.  FanFic.  Fifty Shades of Bigotry.  The series!

[Mithlomwen]

No wait.  Better yet.  FanFic.  Fifty Shades of Bigotry.  The series!

*flails* 

Don't say that too loudly....someone might think it's a good idea! 

[eBadger]

Would it involve whipping the crap out of her?  We could all be happy. 

[Sara Nilsson]

Oh, sorry I should have clarified.  I personally understand why it is that she's in jail.  What I can't figure out is how she (and the people support her) can claim persecution when she (and her supporters) are persecuting others.  I can't wrap my brain around how she feels justified to persecute others, but is indignant when she feels she's being persecuted. 

It's like the pot calling the kettle black.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/jeb-bush-a-tolerant-country-should-allow-discrimination-based-upon-religious-beliefs/

well these people think it is ok if THEY are the ones discriminating, but if they are attacked.. holy hell...



thankfully it is just a vocal minority, but sadly they make the rest of the understanding and sane christians look bad :(

[Jag]

As I've said before, I live close to Rowen county. Yesterday there was a preacher shouting through a PA system about damnation and a lake of fiery hell for all of in support of the persecution of her. It was kind of fun to watch him. 

[Mithlomwen]

From Mike Huckabee's FB page:

Having Kim Davis in federal custody removes all doubt of the criminalization of Christianity in our country. We must defend religious liberty and never surrender to judicial tyranny. Five, unelected Supreme Court lawyers did not and cannot make law. They can only make rulings. The Supreme Court is not the Supreme branch and it's certainly not the Supreme Being.

I am proud of Kim for standing strong for her beliefs. Who will be next? Pastors? Photographers? Caterers? Florists? This is a reckless, appalling, out-of-control decision that undermines the Constitution of the United States and our fundamental right to religious liberty.

So, a presidential hopeful is condoning and supporting an elected official not upholding the law because of her religious beliefs. 

And this man wants to be our president? 

I have no words.....

[Cycle]

So, a presidential hopeful is condoning and supporting an elected official not upholding the law because of her religious beliefs. 

[Sara Nilsson]

From Mike Huckabee's FB page:

So, a presidential hopeful is condoning and supporting an elected official not upholding the law because of her religious beliefs. 

And this man wants to be our president? 

I have no words.....

yet if it was say a muslim man refusing to give a woman a drivers license or something like that.. watch what he would say about religious beliefs.

[Ebb]

I've learned that virtually any political comment which makes reference to "unelected judges" can be safely ignored as baseless tripe.

[Oniya]

yet if it was say a muslim man refusing to give a woman a drivers license or something like that.. watch what he would say about religious beliefs.

Or a Quaker refusing to issue a gun license.

[Lustful Bride]

That's pretty much how extremism and intolerance works, really. When you do it, it's okay/acceptable/God's Will. When someone else does it, it's unfair/bigotry/persecution/violation of your religious rights. Hypocritical, yeah.

Hit the nail on the head right there

[Sara Nilsson]

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/09/04/judge-refuses-let-straight-couple-divorce-because-he-doesnt-know-what-marriage-is-any-more/

I what.. he is refusing to let a couple divorce since apparently now he needs to know what isnt marriage by the Supreme Court. At least this is weeding out the assholes en masse

[Jag]

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/09/04/judge-refuses-let-straight-couple-divorce-because-he-doesnt-know-what-marriage-is-any-more/

I what.. he is refusing to let a couple divorce since apparently now he needs to know what isnt marriage by the Supreme Court. At least this is weeding out the assholes en masse

I'm not sure how many facepalms this one deserves.

[Blythe]

Split into new topic--was enough posts to warrant it's own thread! Apologies if I missed anything. >_>