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Author Topic: The Virginia Shooting, Gun Rights, and Revolutions (Split from News thread)  (Read 14913 times)

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Offline consortium11Topic starter

A news reporter and cameraman were just shot and murdered during a live broadcast.

I'm not going to link to the video of the shooting but it's out there for anyone who wants to see; it's not gory or graphic but it is extremely harrowing. The killer appears to be a former employee of the news station who held a grudge against both the news channel in general and the pair specifically. He also taped the shooting from his POV and posted it to twitter... it's even more soul destroying than the news broadcast version. Both had loved ones within the news team; Allison Parker was in a relationship with one of the other news anchors at the station and perhaps worst of all the camera man's fiance was the producer of the morning news; it was her last day working at the station and was meant to be a celebration before she moved to a new gig. Instead she had to watch and listen to her future husband be murdered.

Latest update is that the suspect attempted to commit suicide after a chase and is currently in a critical condition.

Edit: I should mention there was a third victim; the woman the pair was interviewing who was an employee of the local chamber of commerce. Thankfully she was able to get medical aid in time and is reported now in a stable condition following surgery.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 11:42:42 AM by consortium11 »

Offline Dashenka

You beat me to it by a few seconds.


I'd like to add that I'm not even surprised or shocked anymore. I get up and kinda expect to read about another random shooting. It happens mostly (but not only) in the US.

Baffled that nothing is being done about this still...

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You beat me to it by a few seconds.


I'd like to add that I'm not even surprised or shocked anymore. I get up and kinda expect to read about another random shooting. It happens mostly (but not only) in the US.

Baffled that nothing is being done about this still...

Except its not a mass shooting, it was a murder. He was fired by the studio and went to kill these two innocents who were coworkers.

What do you mean nothing is being done? The shooter was cornered by police and shot himself. Hes still alive and in the hospital at the moment.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 11:57:46 AM by Lustful Bride »

Offline Dashenka

Being done about every random halfwit seemingly being able to get a gun.

And don't give me that 'Guns don't kill people...' BS :D
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 12:21:57 PM by Dashenka »

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Being done about every random ape seemingly being able to get a gun.

And don't give me that 'Guns don't kill people...' BS :D

I wasn't going to. I was gonna say guns kill people faster and i like having mine cause I'm responsible :P

Though I will admit we do need stricter laws, id be happy with like a yearly mental test or something. :P but i forget politicians don't understand that compromise is a thing, its either all or nothing cause voters! :P

« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 12:07:08 PM by Lustful Bride »

Offline Dashenka

Though I will admit we do need stricter laws, id be happy with like a yearly mental test or something. :P but i forget politicians don't understand that compromise is a thing, its either all or nothing cause voters! :P

That's all I'm saying. Stricter laws so Roger Rabbit who mated with a vegetable and had babies cannot get his hands on any kind of weapon, nor his children or grandchildren. It doesn't solve all random murders but it does help.


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That's all I'm saying. Stricter laws so Roger Rabbit who mated with a vegetable and had babies cannot get his hands on any kind of weapon, nor his children or grandchildren. It doesn't solve all random murders but it does help.

And believe it or not most gun owners feel the same. People are in general good at heart and in mind. Problem is lobbyists and politics. They want wither all guns or no guns at all, even depriving farmers who need to look out for their animals. Or giving guns to every psycho on the street.

And it seems only extremists ever want to talk, not the moderates who are competent and actually can get things done.  But that's always the case when it comes to politicians.

Offline eBadger

*Nods* On both sides of the debate, it seems to be either Ban All Guns or No Regulation At All.  There seems to be a HUGE middle ground that doesn't involve the word "Ban" at all, but for some reason there is no real conversation there. 

Offline Dashenka

Being European (sort of) I would be perfectly okay with a ban. But I know it's not up to me to decide but I think there should be a middle ground that works for both people. I heard the governor of Virginia say he wanted stricter gun laws.

Offline eBadger

Being European (sort of) I would be perfectly okay with a ban.

I think many other countries are, yes.  It is, however, very closely tied to the American character and our founding principles: that people have both the right and obligation to defend themselves against injustice either by their neighbor or government.  The 2nd amendment is the Constitutional extension of the core statement of the Declaration of Independence and the US' entire legitimacy as a nation: "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it".

It is not simply some weird fetish for firearms nor is it about hunting, which is just a strange argument, frankly, that takes center stage because it's difficult for anyone in the government to say that we have to preserve the right of the people to overthrow the government. 

Offline Dashenka

Yeah true. But defending one self can be done in so many other ways than with a firearm. You could let a spider bite you or an ant. Or you could seek out a professior which name is just a letter and who's in a wheelchair. Or wear a pair of tights.

Seriously though. Defending yourself doesn't necessarily mean 'get a gun'. So I think it is a strange kind of fetish for firearms. Which is fine, if you, like most people are, are sensible with it.

Offline eBadger

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say there at all. 

Online LisztesFerenc

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say there at all.

  Its a reference to two super heroes, Peter Parker (who was bitten by a radio active spider and became Spider Man) and Charles Xavier, a mutant known as Professor X. Dashenka's point was spelled out in the next sentence. Basically: "If you want to protect yourself from the government, put down your gun and pick up a book. Our society is not in danger because we have too little guns and too many books".

  Or as I like to say, when your government comes for your homes, it will not be with jackbooted thugs and assault riffles, it will be with mortgages and contract, and by then it will be too late to solve the problem by shooting someone.

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Apparently the shooter who killed the reporters had previously sued the TV station back in 2000. But I don't see if he won or lost.

Also I dont want a gun to protect myself from dat dere evil guvament :P

I want it because if I'm attacked theres no way my skinny little arms will protect me from an assailant or would be rapist.

Offline Dashenka

But if the gunman outdraws you. Or simply shoots you when you don't expect it? You can have all the guns in the world, you're still dead :D

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But if the gunman outdraws you. Or simply shoots you when you don't expect it? You can have all the guns in the world, you're still dead :D

The if I die, I die on my feet. :)  Id rather go knowing I at least tried to stop someone like that then went out cowering in a corner. Even if there is the tiniest bit if life inside of me, you can bet I will be trying to take him/her with me.

And if I get shot so fast that im dead before even realizing it....well then it doesn't matter cause im fucking dead. :P I have no worries anymore.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 03:51:23 PM by Lustful Bride »

Offline consortium11Topic starter

Apparently the shooter who killed the reporters had previously sued the TV station back in 2000. But I don't see if he won or lost.

I haven't heard of the law suit in 2000, but the head of the station said that the shooter brought an equality commission (or whatever the equivalent is) case against them shortly after he was fired in 2013 on the basis of racial abuse/discrimination; the commission found none of his claims were valid.

Someone claiming to be Williams faxed a 23 page manifesto/suicide note to ABC News. It hasn't been released in full but from the excerpts that have been released he seems to indicate the motive was a combination of the discrimination he thinks he suffered as a homosexual black man and a reaction to the Charleston shootings, while praising a number of mass shooters.

Offline gaggedLouise

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If more ordinary people had had guns in Russia as of 1917, Lenin wouldn't have been able to take over (or remain in power, anyway) and everything would have been different from then on.

*tries to keep a straight face*

Offline eBadger

If more ordinary people had had guns in Russia as of 1917, Lenin wouldn't have been able to take over (or remain in power, anyway) and everything would have been different from then on.

*tries to keep a straight face*

Indeed, and fewer guns would have kept those charming Tsars in power, what with their history of social equality.  Oh!  And involved in the Great War.  What's a bit of forced military service and a staggering casualty rate between friends?

Tongue in cheek aside, I get what you're saying; but I still have to side with the right of a people to have some say in what their government is.  Even if that is sometimes the lesser evil or even a very bad choice, it is at other times the birth of democracy. 


Online LisztesFerenc

Tongue in cheek aside, I get what you're saying; but I still have to side with the right of a people to have some say in what their government is.  Even if that is sometimes the lesser evil or even a very bad choice, it is at other times the birth of democracy.

  And what evidence do you have that the second amendment politically empowers people in this day?

Offline eBadger

  And what evidence do you have that the second amendment politically empowers people in this day?

Revolutions happen? 

Offline Dashenka

Name one revolution that ended well...

Offline eBadger

Name one revolution that ended well...

Sure.

Edit: Also, didn't you have some opinions about Eastern Ukraine?

« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 05:43:15 PM by eBadger »

Online LisztesFerenc

Sure.

  Not bad. Got any more recent ones, since I mentioned "in this day"? Nowadays an Amercian revolution would be a bunch of insufficiently trained mobs against highly trained marines, wit air support and heavy vehicles, not to mention satellite surveillance and superior body armor and combat medics. Or as mentioned before, the US military could turn against the government, in which case you don't need armed mobs.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 05:46:43 PM by LisztesFerenc »

Offline Dashenka

So... one succesfull revolution, a couple hundred years ago justifies the use of guns all over the world in the present day?

The other 300 revolutions that happened are completely ignored?


Let me tell you something... The revolution currently going on in Ukraine can only be solved in one way. One.

And surprise.... Unlike what the US and Russia belief, guns are not it. But because both countries governments are so utterly stupid and incompetent they only send in more guns to outgun the others. Completely ignoring the people that live in that region and who suffer on a daily basis because Russia is arming the militia and the US is arming the government forces.

Yeah...guns are really helpfull.

All revolutions, all wars, they could all have been solved using diplomacy. Not with guns. Overall, guns have killed a lot more people than they saved and that is fact that you cannot deny.