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Author Topic: Terminator Franchise.  (Read 2722 times)

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Offline Deamonbane

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2015, 12:16:24 PM »
Plus, the T-800 did the logical thing by melting himself instead of the illogical and emotionally right thing which would be to save himself.

Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2015, 02:49:40 PM »
That, and it does support the characterization of Skynet in the extended universe, and that's the only glimpse we get of Skynet (Outside of Salvation, which wields Terminator lore much young John would have wielded that massive minigun)

Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #77 on: July 06, 2015, 11:44:26 PM »
Quickly rewatching Terminator 1 before I head out to see Genisys. Seems every time I see one of the movies or read one of the comics, some new rabbit hole opens up for me to dive into.

So, the Terminators job is to kill off Sarah Connor without threatening the integrity of the timeline. Okay, so ya can't just teleport a flesh coated nuke back. But its way of achieving this is to brutally murder all Sarah Connors in the order they're listed in the phone book, a method that the local police pick up on after only two murders (the minimum amount it takes to make that connection, by the way). Now, lets say that the actual Sarah wasn't name number three on the list, or that the police picked her up a minute before the Terminator had got to Technoir. What would have happened?

Well, every other Sarah in the city would have been taken to protective custody, meaning that the Terminators mission was now scattered and hidden. The only way to progress was to wage war on the police, prompting the Sarahs to constantly be moved and the fighting to escalate.

Now, what would have threatened the creation of a global security A.I. more, an umprompted nuclear attack on the Unite States with no organization taking credit, or a fucking cyborg waging open war on it?

Online Inkidu

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #78 on: July 07, 2015, 12:20:43 AM »
That's why time-travel plots just don't work. There's nothing you can do in the past (well actually doing nothing is the only thing you can do) that won't change the future. I suppose the only thing you could hope for is an acceptable tolerance of divergence.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #79 on: July 07, 2015, 08:36:28 AM »
That's why time-travel plots just don't work. There's nothing you can do in the past (well actually doing nothing is the only thing you can do) that won't change the future. I suppose the only thing you could hope for is an acceptable tolerance of divergence.

The X-Men movie had the best time travel move to change their future. ;o Of course, that movie had some serious plotholes as well. (And honestly that was their way of reviving everyone so they can kill them off again.)




Offline mia h

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #80 on: July 07, 2015, 11:33:30 AM »
I wouldn't say time travel plots just don't work (12 Monkeys, anyone) but looking at just the two Terminator films which is where Genisys picks up, then the whole story is a predestination paradox.
If Skynet doesn't send the first Terminator back then Recee doesn't follow it, so John Connor isn't born and there is no great leader of the human resistance and Skynet wins but that means that Skynet has no reason to send the Terminator back in time. But if the first Terminator doesn't go back then Cyberdyne doesn't have the bits of broken Terminator that allow them to create Skynet which would mean Skynet loses.

Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #81 on: July 07, 2015, 11:45:17 AM »
See, that's the one complaint everyone has that I never got. So, Cyberdyne models Skynet off of the CPU from the T-800 in The Terminator. You're right, that doesn't make any sense... from the perspective of a human brain, which is tooled to understand a materialistic world as a linear series of events and consequences. But I actually really like when the time flow completely ignores that status quo and has events in the 'past' rely on their own future to kick them into gear.

Has anyone seen Triangle? Atrocious film, but it does attempt to take that disregard for mechanism to as chaotic a point as possible. It's like being in a zone where time just loops and corrodes and doubles on itself with no real rhyme or reason to it. I'd recommend it to anyone whose interested in a less conventional (though sadly completely incomprehensible) set of time 'rules'.

Offline Lustful BrideTopic starter

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #82 on: July 07, 2015, 11:56:05 AM »
Skynet doesn't understand the Novikov self-consistency principle. But then again most humans probably don't either. :P

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #83 on: July 07, 2015, 12:03:17 PM »
T1 actually worked, because it was a self-contained stable time loop. The existence of John Connor, Skynet, and everything else was internally self-dependent on itself.

T2 threw all that out the window with it's "the future is what we make it" theme, thus creating a paradox.

T3 tried reverting back to T1's inevitability.

T4 is stupid and I dont care about it, because it all happened in the future anyways.

That's the issue with Terminator. It keeps changing its own rules on how time travel works, ruining any hope of consistency it had. And it sounds like Genysis is using the T2 idea but splicing in parallel/alternate timelines to try and make it more logical.

Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #84 on: July 07, 2015, 12:15:56 PM »
Imagine if Skynet came to the same conclusion. Just wakes up one day like "I don't get anything anymore, fuck it!" and just goes nuts with time travel. Skynet sends something back, John sends back something to counter it, Skynet adapts, John adapts, until it's just one upping each other endlessly.

I mean, they already kind of started to do it. The TX is a Terminator made to kill Terminators. Skynet only makes a TX because John is reprogramming it's Terminators. Just keep going! Counter bullshit with more bullshit, make the T-Infinity canon!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 12:17:38 PM by Sabby »

Offline Oniya

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #85 on: July 07, 2015, 12:23:25 PM »
make the T-Infinity canon!

I read that as 'cannon' (the big gun) instead of 'canon' (accepted body of lore), and it was a very funny image.

Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #86 on: July 07, 2015, 12:26:02 PM »
Trust me, a cannon with legs and metal Terminator teeth would be an improvement on the T-Infinity.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #87 on: July 07, 2015, 12:32:59 PM »
I was thinking of infinite Terminators as payload.  ;D

(Still a better plot device than...)

Offline Kunoichi

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #88 on: July 07, 2015, 01:14:49 PM »
There's an interview floating around somewhere out there where the people who made the film lay out the basic time travel rules they're using for this film and the two sequels they're hoping to make.  They are using the changeable future/ multiple timelines option to reconcile everything, but they're also trying to incorporate some of the predestination elements from 1 and 3 by adding in the corollary that the more of an impact an event has on history, the harder it is to change.  I think the exact metaphor they used was that, if a single timeline is like a river, then much like diverting a river, diverting the timeline in any major way is going to require a great deal of planning, preparation and effort.

Anyway, I got the chance to go see the movie yesterday, and while it had a few issues, I'd say that it was probably either the second or third best Terminator movie out of the five we've gotten so far.  I'm definitely hoping it does well enough that we get those eventual sequels. ^^

Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #89 on: July 08, 2015, 11:26:02 AM »
Wanna know what Skynet comes up with when it researches Xenomorph biology? If you said 'a creepy ass Terminator with black Xeno skin, fangs and claws', you're half correct. That was the concept art. Here's what they really went with!



Because that doesn't look stupid at all. It's especially cool for it's ability to absorb random scenery to turn it into weapons that definitely don't look like random crap sticking out of it.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2015, 08:49:58 PM »
Because that doesn't look stupid at all. It's especially cool for it's ability to absorb random scenery to turn it into weapons that definitely don't look like random crap sticking out of it.

...Sarcasm?

Offline Oniya

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #91 on: July 08, 2015, 09:00:57 PM »
'a creepy ass Terminator with black Xeno skin, fangs and claws',

I'm - trying to see how that description doesn't match what you say they went with, and is only 'half right'.  Aside from the necessarily bluish 'black' that you get in all comic book art.

Offline Drake Valentine

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #92 on: July 08, 2015, 09:14:20 PM »
I'm - trying to see how that description doesn't match what you say they went with, and is only 'half right'.  Aside from the necessarily bluish 'black' that you get in all comic book art.

It looks like batman got cross with some bat genes and became a mutated bat on steroids to me.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #93 on: July 08, 2015, 09:16:48 PM »
I thought more like a Terminator gorilla, myself. The head is rather Xenomorphish, but the body is all wrong - bulging, swollen muscles aren't Xenomorphish at all, they're supposed to be much more sleek and serpentine.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #94 on: July 08, 2015, 09:36:10 PM »
I thought more like a Terminator gorilla, myself. The head is rather Xenomorphish, but the body is all wrong - bulging, swollen muscles aren't Xenomorphish at all, they're supposed to be much more sleek and serpentine.

I assumed that the 'Mr. Universe' physique came from the Terminator side of the family.  *shrug*

Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #95 on: July 08, 2015, 11:34:53 PM »
The original design had it looking exactly like a Terminator, it was just black with that Xeno biomechanical design on it's skin, with sharp teeth and claws. What they went with was big, bulky and purple, with no biomechanical stuff.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 11:59:20 PM by Sabby »

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #96 on: July 09, 2015, 12:22:39 AM »
That's sort of what I meant. I agree with Oniya that based purely on your verbal description, it's a fairly good match to the text. But it's nothing like that concept art, and not what I would have imagined it as either - what it looks like is one artist doing the concept, then another artist doing the revised version purely based off the summary.

Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #97 on: July 09, 2015, 12:23:41 AM »
Yeah, I should have tracked down the concept art to save confusion, but I actually couldn't. It was pretty buried.

Offline Sabby

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #98 on: July 09, 2015, 04:35:58 AM »
Hmmm, rewatching T2, and I'm starting to realize just how important that deleted scene is. Remember a while ago we talked about a deleted scene with John and Sarah removing the T-800s CPU to disable the learning inhibitor? If you don't have a version of the movie with that scene and you decide to watch it again, just remember that when they leave to see Enriche to get the weapons, the T-800 is learning. So much is standing out that I don't know how I missed it for so many years.

Offline mia h

Re: Terminator Franchise.
« Reply #99 on: July 09, 2015, 05:04:16 AM »
The other side to that scene is slightly later when John gets the car keys from the sunvisor and ask the T-800 "Are we learning yet?" , that actually makes sense with the deleted scene.